Has anyone considered going to the Economic Forum protest Tomorrow?/?

[saigray]

Originally posted by siceone

Im against protesting

but I dont know how to show it [/quote

That's a near perfect reply to the criticism of protestor methods...

If these opinions and alternative ideas on globilization were given a voice within the system then we wouldn't be protesting! How else do you propose we let elitist organizations know that another side exists? Would you even be thinking about these issues if your classes hadn't been canceled?

As for the "perception" that there was danger...who's fault was that...NYU says "they will have access to bricks" doesn't mean there was any indication on the part of those gathered that they meant to use them. Just because NYC assembled 5000 cops to watch 3000 protestors doesn't mean each unarmed protestor can take on 2 heavily armed, trained, police officers. Its about image making and the "aura" around this issue is being nicely constructed by government and mainstream media so that ppl get turned off before they know what the argument is - as you so clearly have been. The media covers, and hypes, any violence surrounding the issue, but ignores all the other aspects...the protestors are told they are counter productive if they gain negative publicity, but if they are peaceful, they may get no publicity.

Lastly, I agreee that globilization can and occasionaly is a good force. And whether we want it or not, that is the way the economy is going to be. If you look at what i wrote, and if you listen to most of the arguments, that is understood. Anti-globilization as a term refers to how things ARE being done, not how they COULD be done. If you honestly think that right now, the global economy is operating in a way so that positive effects ARE being realized across the globe than you are not paying attention or are easily fooled.

[dafunkadelic]

Sai....you are so right. I share your opinion in so many wayz...just got one thing to say..

Wish I could join you..

that's all..

[tottallyoff]

I have a question:

Can you tell me exactly what are you protesting!

are you doing it because you are bored and have no job and care about it just to care?

[saigray]

Um, yes I can. I already did a little earlier in this thread, actually.- but as I said its complicated and doesn't fit into easy slogans. I am not bored at all, you know me, and I am never bored...I have too much to do most of the time, but I take time away from other things because I think this is important. I have a job that deals with global development, actually, and I do this out of Knowledge NOT ignorance as you'd love to believe.

I'm curious what the problem with "caring just to care" is, though? Should I only care if I am going to reap the benefit of it? Well, I guess you got me there- I really must be a silly, flaky, stupid hippie. How embarassing.

[tottallyoff]

Originally posted by saigray

I have a job that deals with global development, actually, and I do this out of Knowledge NOT ignorance as you'd love to believe.

I'm curious what the problem with "caring just to care" is, though? Should I only care if I am going to reap the benefit of it? Well, I guess you got me there- I really must be a silly, flaky, stupid hippie. How embarassing.

Actually, as insane as it sound, I am not trying to insult anyone by making my comment about caring just to care. Some people protest because they have been touched by the subject matter. Some people do it because they want to follow like sheeps without understanding really what they are protesting. I just wanted to find out what category you fall into. Do not generalize pathetic wastes of a sperm, like roadrunner, as a general mainstream of people who went to NYU. I finished Stern. I do care about stuff going on in the world. May be not enough to demonstrate against it, but enough for me.

As far as WTO concerns: What exactly in the concept of WTo do you detest? Is it free trade? Cheaper labour? Cheaper cost of production? May be you are protesting a chance for underdeveloped countries to catch up? I just want to know.

[tottallyoff]

.

[saigray]

Originally posted by tottallyoff

Actually, as insane as it sound, I am not trying to insult anyone by making my comment about caring just to care. Some people protest because they have been touched by the subject matter. Some people do it because they want to follow like sheeps without understanding really what they are protesting. I just wanted to find out what category you fall into. Do not generalize pathetic wastes of a sperm, like roadrunner, as a general mainstream of people who went to NYU. I finished Stern. I do care about stuff going on in the world. May be not enough to demonstrate against it, but enough for me.

As far as WTO concerns: What exactly in the concept of WTo do you detest? Is it free trade? Cheaper labour? Cheaper cost of production? May be you are protesting a chance for underdeveloped countries to catch up? I just want to know.

Wow. We are gonna have to talk in person sometime, cause I don't have time to type out all the problems I have with where you are going, plus it tends to make things either/or when you aren't face to face.

But I'll get to some of them. I think its insane that you would make a comment that might seem like an insult to people for caring...its like making fun of kids for recycling.

Sure SOME people are followers, but there are way more people not giving a shit, and doing nothing, and it takes a lot less effort to follow them, so why would you assume right off the bat that someone going to these things is a bored, jobless, sheep? Saturday was a cold, logistical nightmare, why the fuck would anyone get up early, deal with police baracades, and 20 degree weather unless they were touched by the issues---if they don't understand the issues to your satisfaction, well then maybe they're still learning, but at least they are paying attention. So please don't act like you just wanted to know what catagory I am- your first comment assumed one thing, and now that I proved that wrong, you still want to hold on to the notion that MOST of those ppl out there don't know what they are about, but that is JUST NOT TRUE> if they just wanted to beat bongos they could have follow their friends to phish concerts.

And while I'm happy to hear that you care enough about the world for your own satisfaction, I find it disturbing that you would be disrespectful of people who care more, as if your level of caring but not doing anything was the more appropriate course of (non)action.

AS to the WTO, which is not who was meeting btw: "cheaper cost of production" I'm sure is something that Stern graduates view as a very admirable thing, but when you do cost/benefit analysis of a situation, there are things that business schools don't put in the equation, that many believe are important. The environmental restrictions and labor laws that people in America pushed for to keep companies from destroying our natural resources and exploiting the poor are circumvented through moving production to 3rd world countries. This in turn is used as an argument by conservatives to roll back those restrictions to keep companies from going abroad. The effect of this cycle is to freeing large corporations from all responsibilities and to seek higher profit margins at the planet and humanities expense.

Underdeveloped countries need infrastructure and support to build their own economies but plopping dangerous, environmentally horrible factories that treat workers like disposable waste, and pay them less than a living wage (ie. not enough to LIVE on) is not giving them a chance to catch up. Its a matter of degrees of greed. It would still cost less to make that shoe in Tunisia, even if you paid the workers enough to eat, and let them take a lunch break, and didn't molest them. Really.

[roadrunner]

I was curious, so I stopped by after work Friday to check this out. It was completely pathetic. About 300 protesters and 600 cops. I didn't see any signs or hear anyone chanting.

I don't want to start any personal beef or anything, it just sounds like NYU WAAAYYYYYYY exaggerated what was going on. Don't believe everything you read. Take a little time and see if it's true. It won't kill you.

[georgym]

Originally posted by roadrunner

I was curious, so I stopped by after work Friday to check this out. It was completely pathetic. About 300 protesters and 600 cops. I didn't see any signs or hear anyone chanting.

I don't want to start any personal beef or anything, it just sounds like NYU WAAAYYYYYYY exaggerated what was going on. Don't believe everything you read. Take a little time and see if it's true. It won't kill you.

Well, i'm actually surprised to hear these numbers... i heard the Numbers ranged up the 1000's:confused:

I must agree with a lot of what saisha (saigray) said

I don't think the protest was about one thing , the WTO...it was about a range of issues that are all interconnected: Sweatshop labor, conditions in 3rd world countries, indirect suppression by capitalism, reducing debt for 3rd world nations, etc....

The idea that people can come out and protest is nothing new. In fact, contained in France's constitution is a clause designating the "freedom for manifestations (protests)" , " to set up barracades", etc.... and unions/workers get a lot through the mentality of not only gov't but mainstream Europe.

It sux how NYC cops have to crack down so vehemontly on protestors here....even if they don't strike an innocent protester, the mere sight of cops with guns and batons (from what I heard, outnumbering protesters 2 to 1 .) is just ridiculous.

I do think there can be problems with lots of people coming together (groupthink, old Psych101 term, dealing with a large group following the lead of a small corrupt leader) can occur, but I DO believe in peaceful protests, in order to get your point across.

Martin Luther king with SNCC didn't do so bad.