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guyman1966

The Palestinian People Do NOT Exist

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Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."

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Your point being???

It's not as if they haven't always been under the same rule before Europeans came in and split em up.

Think of it this way...How would you like it if an international organization designated the area where you live as being a new Native American nation where only Native Americans have any rights, and then suddenly find the place where you grew up being flooded with Native Americans from all over the country imposing their will upon you while you have no political voice? I know it sounds ludicrous, but that's pretty much the story of Israel. While I don't agree with some of the "Palestinian" tactics, they really do have a point....

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Again, the Arabs living inside of the NEW state of Israel were invited to stay. Those who did now enjoy Israeli citizenship. The ones who listened to Syria, Jordan, Lebanon & Egypt all went to live in temporary camps. Unfortunately, since these Arab nations never were able to beat Israel and "push the Jews into the sea" like they broadcast on Arab radio hours after Israel was declared a Country, they now live in terrible conditions. The Arabs and the now so-called "Palestinians" have made mistake after mistake. When are they gonna wake up? When are we going to put our foot down and not let them rewrite historical facts? There never were a Palestinian people before 1967. They were created for one reason: to destroy Israel. Otherwise, they would now be called Jordanians.

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Originally posted by guyman1966

Again, the Arabs living inside of the NEW state of Israel were invited to stay. Those who did now enjoy Israeli citizenship. The ones who listened to Syria, Jordan, Lebanon & Egypt all went to live in temporary camps. Unfortunately, since these Arab nations never were able to beat Israel and "push the Jews into the sea" like they broadcast on Arab radio hours after Israel was declared a Country, they now live in terrible conditions. The Arabs and the now so-called "Palestinians" have made mistake after mistake. When are they gonna wake up? When are we going to put our foot down and not let them rewrite historical facts? There never were a Palestinian people before 1967. They were created for one reason: to destroy Israel. Otherwise, they would now be called Jordanians.

Actually, Palestine was a country before Israel was there, and Europeans called the people who lived there Palestinians. The point of that is that there is little cultural/historical difference between the various peoples of the Arabian Peninsula. Until Britain and several other countries split the peninsula up, there were two nationalities there: Arabs and Persians. Jordanians and Palestinians are both culturally Arabs, and without Europe giving them some other name, they still would be. Since the Europeans gave them the name, it's more useful, under European standards of diplomacy, to call themselves Palestinians.

That's the point of what was said.

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Originally posted by brickhouse

Actually, Palestine was a country before Israel was there, and Europeans called the people who lived there Palestinians. The point of that is that there is little cultural/historical difference between the various peoples of the Arabian Peninsula. Until Britain and several other countries split the peninsula up, there were two nationalities there: Arabs and Persians. Jordanians and Palestinians are both culturally Arabs, and without Europe giving them some other name, they still would be. Since the Europeans gave them the name, it's more useful, under European standards of diplomacy, to call themselves Palestinians.

That's the point of what was said.

No. You are wrong. While that territory was called Palestine, none of the people living there were ever called Palestinians. Please give me a minute to find another post...

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The truth is that Palestine is no more real than Never-Never Land. The first time the name was used was in 70 A.D. when the Romans committed genocide against the Jews, smashed the Temple and declared the land of Israel would be no more. From then on, the Romans promised, it would be known as Palestine. The name was derived from the Philistines, a Goliathian people conquered by the Jews centuries earlier. It was a way for the Romans to add insult to injury. They also tried to change the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina, but that had even less staying power.

Palestine has never existed -- before or since -- as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.

There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.

But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough.

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Originally posted by guyman1966

No. You are wrong. While that territory was called Palestine, none of the people living there were ever called Palestinians. Please give me a minute to find another post...

You know, the world is not so black -and - white. Palestine is considered a "nation state", a large group of committed citizens who have roots in an area and an organized political machine.

The fact of the matter is, Palestinians have as much a right to land as the Israelis do. The problem was artificial land designation set by the likes of Britain and other Imperial nations. They drew borders without consideration to cultural or historical significance.

Now, this error is coming back to haunt us.

Are you saying, guyman, that the Palestinians immigrated to Israel from surrounding nations.? I don't quite get your point :confused:

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Originally posted by guyman1966

The truth is that Palestine is no more real than Never-Never Land. The first time the name was used was in 70 A.D. when the Romans committed genocide against the Jews, smashed the Temple and declared the land of Israel would be no more. From then on, the Romans promised, it would be known as Palestine. The name was derived from the Philistines, a Goliathian people conquered by the Jews centuries earlier. It was a way for the Romans to add insult to injury. They also tried to change the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina, but that had even less staying power.

Palestine has never existed -- before or since -- as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.

There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.

But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough.

And how are we not saying the same thing, aside from the final paragraph???

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Originally posted by gmccookny

You know, the world is not so black -and - white. Palestine is considered a "nation state", a large group of committed citizens who have roots in an area and an organized political machine.

The fact of the matter is, Palestinians have as much a right to land as the Israelis do. The problem was artificial land designation set by the likes of Britain and other Imperial nations. They drew borders without consideration to cultural or historical significance.

Of the original land of Palestine, 99% went to the Arabs (where do you think Jordan and Lebanon come from?) and only 1% went to the Jews. And, the Jews asked the Arabs living there to stay? Did you know that with the land that went to the Arabs, the Arabs kicked out the Jews that were living there? No, You never hear about that.

It is Black and White. The Arabs want all the Jews out of Israel.

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Originally posted by guyman1966

Of the original land of Palestine, 99% went to the Arabs (where do you think Jordan and Lebanon come from?) and only 1% went to the Jews. And, the Jews asked the Arabs living there to stay? Did you know that with the land that went to the Arabs, the Arabs kicked out the Jews that were living there? No, You never hear about that.

It is Black and White. The Arabs want all the Jews out of Israel.

How would you like it if you were displaced from your native land? I don't think you would make the same 99%/1% argument if the government wanted to take an additional 1% of your paycheck for taxes....

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Originally posted by brickhouse

How would you like it if you were displaced from your native land? I don't think you would make the same 99%/1% argument if the government wanted to take an additional 1% of your paycheck for taxes....

The Jews were. Twice. And now they are home.

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guyman: for the majority of "jews" living in israel (there is a reason i use the " "), israel is not their homeland. many ashkenazi jews' origins actually are aryan, and come from a race that adopted judaism more than a millenia ago. therefore, your argument doesn't have much ground. the true jews are the sephardim, who, ironically, are not as welcome in certain areas in israel as the ashkenazi are, ie. government, military, education, etc. these jews originate from the middle east and the descendants of this group have also lived in north africa, yemen, saudi arabia, iran, syria, etc. there is a jewish community in iran that is respected and no one touches them, same goes for jews in syria, tunisia, morocco, etc.

maybe your palestinian point does have some ground, but then again, not all the arabs are the same, and for someone to say that is sort of foolish....a jordanian is not the same as a yemeni, nor an egyptian as a saudi, nor an iraqi as a lebanese.

maybe if you actually had seen the middle east, your views might change.

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Originally posted by sassa

guyman: for the majority of "jews" living in israel (there is a reason i use the " "), israel is not their homeland. many ashkenazi jews' origins actually are aryan, and come from a race that adopted judaism more than a millenia ago. therefore, your argument doesn't have much ground. the true jews are the sephardim, who, ironically, are not as welcome in certain areas in israel as the ashkenazi are, ie. government, military, education, etc. these jews originate from the middle east and the descendants of this group have also lived in north africa, yemen, saudi arabia, iran, syria, etc. there is a jewish community in iran that is respected and no one touches them, same goes for jews in syria, tunisia, morocco, etc.

maybe your palestinian point does have some ground, but then again, not all the arabs are the same, and for someone to say that is sort of foolish....a jordanian is not the same as a yemeni, nor an egyptian as a saudi, nor an iraqi as a lebanese.

maybe if you actually had seen the middle east, your views might change.

Never ASSUME my socialist friend. I have indeed walked the streets of Jerusalem, Hebron, Cairo and Queens. I have seen the Middle East and it has seen me.

Weather or not the Ashkenazi are converts or members of the Tribes of Israel who were dispersed by war. They live, breath and die as Jews. Hitler did not seem to consider them lesser Jews. Everyday, 3x per day they pray towards Jerusalem. Ya know, you never hear a Muslim pray towards there. Can you find the work Jerusalem in the Koran? NO. Israel is the Jewish homeland. Weather you are a black, Asian or white Jew. How many Black Jews were evacuated from Uganda? Thousands? They are as much a Jew as anyone else. And, you mentioned that Sephardim are looked down upon by the Ashkenazi, how about how certain Arabs look down on others. Ask a Saudi how they feel about the Jordanians. It exists in every culture. Hell, our American light skinned blacks look down on Dark Blacks...

Once again you are so set in your hate you can’t see the light. I feel sorry for you. And, notice I made my point with out calling you one name.

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Originally posted by guyman1966

The Jews were. Twice. And now they are home.

it is true....the arab countries are full of hate towrds the israelies because Israel IS a developed country and they do have resources

I garantuee you that if Jordan and the other surrounding coutries would not be runned so poorly and they actually had more of an economic system, then things would be diffrent.

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Originally posted by normalnoises

You only wish the Palestinian didn't exist guyman. Why must you lie??

This shows how much of a racist bigot you really are.

How am I lying and what did I say that makes me a racist? You make claims that you can't back up. Get a life (and a clue).

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I guess than because I'm an agnostic, that makes Russia my homeland. And because I'm a Jew, Israel must be my homeland. And because I'm Catholic, Italy must be my homeland.

Shit, now I'm confused. How bout I just plunder all of em....

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Originally posted by brickhouse

I guess than because I'm an agnostic, that makes Russia my homeland. And because I'm a Jew, Israel must be my homeland. And because I'm Catholic, Italy must be my homeland.

Shit, now I'm confused. How bout I just plunder all of em....

This is not a valid point. Catholics don't pray towards Italy or mention it in their prayers. If you attend a Jewish service you will note that Jerusalem is consistently mentioned. There is archeological evidence that supports all the Jewish writings, that Jerusalem and Israel is their homeland. Just as all the liberals make a case for the American Indians belonging in N. America, the Jews belong in Israel.

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Originally posted by guyman1966

How am I lying and what did I say that makes me a racist? You make claims that you can't back up. Get a life (and a clue).

YOU JUST LIED AGAIN. What you posted in this thread explains itself very clearly.

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