The offcial, Space Sound engineer should be fired!!

[biznation00]

WOW!! and to think I used to hear some of you people say things like "so & so dj was good, but I would definately love to hear him/her on a real system like space's". How things change mighty quickly...

It's like trends with some of you people here. One month you are all over this DJ & two months later he's old news. Guess some of you do the same for sound systems.

[Guest saleen351]

Originally posted by biznation00

WOW!! and to think I used to hear some of you people say things like "so & so dj was good, but I would definately love to hear him/her on a real system like space's". How things change mighty quickly...

It's like trends with some of you people here. One month you are all over this DJ & two months later he's old news. Guess some of you do the same for sound systems.

Maze is now here, so we have a new standard here in miami.

Spaces system is just falling apart, i thought for picotto it didn't sound too healthy, but i wasn't positive, but now i know it was beat up..

Some thing was seriously wrong in there. Not sure what, but one of the woofers is blown against the far corner, opposite of the cp hang out. But bro, i saw more people holding their ears just in that one night, then i've seen all my space nights combined. I'm sure its a quck fix, and maybe they tweaked the system to the DD standards

[pod]

Biz hit the nail on the head, some people are so trendy. I don't know what happened on Saturday, if anything, but I've never had any major issues with the sound at Space...

I will agree though that Maze is the new champ, but I'm still a fan of the Space rig.

[Guest saleen351]

Originally posted by pod

Biz hit the nail on the head, some people are so trendy. I don't know what happened on Saturday, if anything, but I've never had any major issues with the sound at Space...

I will agree though that Maze is the new champ, but I'm still a fan of the Space rig.

none of us, ever have bashed that system at space. something was just wrong on sat night... when its right, it rocks, but maze is the champ like you said....

[funketeer]

He is to be tortured severely and then fired.

[diegonyc]

yoo, the nerve of some of u people...

lol

[Guest saleen351]

Originally posted by diegonyc

yoo, the nerve of some of u people...

lol

[milano]

The sound system was poorly equalized. Don't think it was the extra speakers or that the sound system is no good. Those big horns on top of the long side bar always have popped my eardrum. So when I approach that bar I cover my ear until I get some paper napkins and plug them in.

Compared to Crobar's or Maze's, Space's system seems behind. But that doesn't mean it is bad. It is not as good.

[thehog]

Originally posted by milano

The sound system was poorly equalized. Don't think it was the extra speakers or that the sound system is no good. Those big horns on top of the long side bar always have popped my eardrum. So when I approach that bar I cover my ear until I get some paper napkins and plug them in.

Compared to Crobar's or Maze's, Space's system seems behind. But that doesn't mean it is bad. It is not as good.

IMO this is not a Maze, Crow Bar or Space sound system comparison. I’m not here bashing just stating the fact that the system in Space is without a doubt going down hill. It seemed a bit off for Picotto then a little worse the Fri. that Greg played. The sound for DD just seemed to follow the down hill trend and it appeared to get worse as the night wore on.

[andrewthomas]

Originally posted by pod

Arc's system is nothing to sneeze at. It edges out Maze slightly.

Almost all club systems nowadays use digital processing in some fashion. Almost all live applications too. Even your friend Shorty uses digital processing, it's on his website...any BSS product he's using utilizes digital processing.. It's what gives the system the clarity that the people want. I'd gladly put up a digital rig up against any '100% analog' system out there, if such a setup exists anymore. With a digitally processed system, you can easily get beyond CD quality...

A CD is played back with a sampling rate of 44.1 kHZ and at 16-bit resolution. Vinyl, being an analog format, goes beyond that, but at the same time introduces other problems such as harmonic distortion, rumble, wow, and flutter. A turntable is also very prone to feedback, and you'll hear many inexperienced DJs riding a feedback wave all night. Where digital processing comes in is it takes the raw analog of the vinyl signal, processes out the feedback elements, the clicks and hissing, as well as any other imperfections...and the latest processing gear does it at "24/96" which means a resolution of 24 bit, and a sampling rate of 96 kHZ. A digital source such as a CD benefits from this as well, as some interpolation happens, providing a more detailed signal.

These systems are future-ready too, with the advent of new playback formats such as DVD-Audio and Sony's SACD (SACDs sound fantastic, BTW...).

If you'd like, I'll point out the digital elements in any reputable club on the beach or elsewhere sometime...no reputable installer does a whole-analog install anymore.

vinyl sounds 100000000 times better then cd on any system anyday.

i really think u should stay with ur Digital camara leave the sound and everything up to the people in that field.

analog always sounds better then digital just ask anyone who knows.

i never said shorty was all analog so dont go making assumptions.

im glad u know ur cd sample rates and stuff cause cds have nothing to do with a digital system.

ya most the systems these days are digital cause it u wanna run a big application , these days everything is made like that cause digital is cheaper and more availible then analog

even cellphones,analog is much better and clearer then digital but yet much more expensive.

dont believe me just go to any cell store and ask them bout an analog phone

anyway ur wrong just so u know

[andrewthomas]

Originally posted by biznation00

WOW!! and to think I used to hear some of you people say things like "so & so dj was good, but I would definately love to hear him/her on a real system like space's". How things change mighty quickly...

It's like trends with some of you people here. One month you are all over this DJ & two months later he's old news. Guess some of you do the same for sound systems.

actually the system at space i liked better for deep dish..the highs werent to high this time, and the speaker stacks brought in the much needed lows that space was missing..

then again i left at 3:30 so i dunno what it sounded like as the night went on..

but yes the sounds are getting more loose in there bass aint kickin properly its not rattling my bones its hurting my ears(cause its all digital)

in analog u can get that bone rattling bass with out the ear pinching frequancies

there for u can talk at a normal volume without yelling but the system will still be the same loud volume..

I HATE and always hated the system at space before sat night.

thats why ide always bounce early cause levels hurt my ears to much i rather leave then take an asprin and hide the pain

and p.s

NOTHING BEATS ANALOG

[detbasshead]

Yo man get with it analog is DEAD it is passe and noisy I will take any good digital system over analog. For multiple reasons a digital system is much less upkeep and do not have to worry about over heating the components. the only thing anaolg is better at is handling distortion if some dumb fuck sound engineer over drives the system this is where digital craps out but noone should drive their amplifiers that hard anyways. On another point the end output of the sound is the speaker which is by n far the weakest link in the whole sound reproduction chain. With really nice drivers clean crossovers and properly designed and position speakers can make a system. With speakers especially in Miami with the humidity the surrounds well deterioate away which will definitely weaken the sound, but by n large digital is always better then analog just for tolerance reasons and lack of electronic components drifting. Digital is the way to go and FUCK ANALOG.

[andrewthomas]

i think fuck DIGITAL and fuck YOU too

every dj and producer dreams of analog

even in the studio

analog sounds are always better then digital

u rather have analog synths or digital synths?

analog kicks or digital kicks?

dont get me wrong though its 2003 already and IT IS a digital world out there

but deffinitly doesnt mean its better

[andrewthomas]

lets make a science of it...

Analog vs Digital It all comes down to analog vs digital if digital is better why was the world created to be analog? Was it that the old analog god is obsolete and now we need a new digital one? Instead of Jesus we'll have 100101110001110?

Analog is information being presented continuously. Its advantage is that it has the ability "to fully represent a continuous stream of information." When graphed, analog signals are in the shape of sine waves.

Unlike analog, unwanted interference has less of an effect on digital information. When graphed, digital signals are in the shape of square waves.

Sound is analog, as it is always changing. Thus, in order to send information over a phone line, a modem must take the digital data given it by the computer and convert it into sound, an analog signal. The receiving modem must convert these analog signals back into the original digital data.

Digitally generated frequency numbers do not vary. This does not occur in nature. Though digital frequency devices can produce frequencies which live in the natural range, they are always mechanically rounded numbers. Keep in mind, there simply are no digital microbes! There is no digital flesh. Living things are comprised of frequencies which ripple out infinitely.

The body more readily assimilates analog frequency because the signal has infinite depth....an infinite number of digits past the decimal point.

point blank

Analog -- It's All About Resolution

Analog has -- and always will have -- better resolution than digital, but it comes with the side-effect of sound coloration. When an audio signal is passed through physical elements such as tubes, capacitors and the like, they will impact the audio signal in some way. Even if a piece of equipment is on bypass, the act of routing a signal through it affects the sound. This can be a benefit or a detriment, depending on preference. Many people want what they call a "fat, warm sound." This is certainly an attribute that analog equipment can impart, but there are two other factors even more important in achieving this sound: the skill of the mastering engineer and how the music was recorded, as he/she can only work with what an artist delivers. If the original recording sounds like The Back Street Boys, analog mastering cannot give it the sonic characteristics of early Steely Dan. Likewise, if a mastering engineer over-processes, even the best analog gear can sound harsh or muddy. Simply having a piece of analog gear in a signal chain is no guarantee of "analog" sound.

Digital -- It's All About Control

Digital -- with its ability to apply (and undo) unique changes to a virtually unlimited number of scenarios -- has greater control than analog, but it comes with the side-effect of lower resolution. However, keep in mind that "lower resolution" is a relative term. The 24/96 platform that many hi-fi enthusiasts proclaimed to be "as good as analog" has already been eclipsed by much better resolution rates. What we're talking about is theoretical resolution. Much of what is criticized as missing in digital falls into the "unheard, but felt" category: overtones and undertones that are beyond the scope of current sampling standards. In theory, digital will never have the resolution of analog. At a certain point, though, it becomes unnoticeable to the human ear.

So where does all this leave us? It depends on the application. In mastering, the ultimate goal is to apply changes to music that maximize its sound -- punchier drums, clearer bass, or whatever is desired -- without imparting any coloration from the process itself, while at the same time maintaining the highest resolution. In short, the perfect solution would probably contain the best elements of both analog and digital. Keep in mind, though, that either platform is just a means to accomplish work...not the work itself.

and now u know why

I KNOW MY WORK

nextime

you do yours

[detbasshead]

I use a digital synth and it sounds awsome, but when dealing with something that requires precision and keeping tight values digital is more stable and digital will sound comparable to anaolg in the not so different future. humans do not hear analogously we hear is discreat packets of time which is proved with the pysch acoustic phenomenon of pre masking. I heard anaolg sound systems die because they were over heating that does not happen with digital. also digital components are a lot more power efficient. Also anaolg has this reputation of sounding better. But if you compare a 1000 dollar turntable to 1000 CD player(they do exist) you will hardly be able to tell the difference, comparing a good turn table to you shitty disc man that is another story but then not comparing the same grade of equipment. Sorry to burst your bubble but digital will replace analog and anyways speaker drivers will always be analog. Another point to be made mention is that if converting from anaolg to digital and vice versa one needs to invest in good convertors and this may be the area where digital may lack on analog but regardless a good digital vs a good analog no one could really tell the difference.

[detbasshead]

Say all the stuff about over tones but if you can hear above 20 kHz which is impossible the resolution differences between digital and analog cannot be perceived digital goes out to 22.05 kHz according to Nyquist at a 44.1 sampling rate. I know my shit I can design an A/D and a D/A if required you are looking at Digital vs Analog debate on a strictly audiophile type basis in which most people cannot hear the difference as musch as you say you can. I have a taken numerous A/B test in relation to subjects like this and similar and it is really really hard to tell the difference between the two even knowing what to pick up on. Unless your ears can out perform the resolution of the digital system you cannot tell.

[andrewthomas]

one solution for u

GET A FAN

they also have liquid cooled amplifiers these days

for ur info a technic1200 priced at $379

sounds better then a pioneer,denon ar tascom cd player priced at over $1300

i have good enough ears where yes i can hear a difference

if u taken all the tests u say u have u would not be argueing with me any further

i rest my case in mt sound101 post

my ears can certianly out proform spaces sigital system

my ears are so good that they get hurt then in there listining to the sloppy sounds comming out of the deteriorated speakers

[detbasshead]

OK Prof answer these quesrtions for me since I do not know my shit and I need a class

Dithering

Aliasing

Anti Aliasing

Fletcher Munson Curves

Range of Human Hearing

Nyquist Thereom

Pre Masking

Post Masking

Sigma Delta

Noise Shaping

Insult me all you want but analog is going away car stereos know are using digital amplifiers to replace the analog ones.

Personally your reason for the stength of analog is does not take into account for the limitations of a speakers range and the range of human hearing. With that considered anaolg produces stuff we do not or could never hear in the first place thus does not make a difference if we produced or not. Anyways I will put my NAD CD player up against your turntables anyday but that would be biased since people could hear the noise to associate it with analog. Oh thats right analog is noiser then digital.

[andrewthomas]

heres ur answer

u need all that shit to get a proper sound in digital there for it is generic

when u speak to ur mother in person are u speaking digital?

when ur takin a shit and u hear it go "bloop" in the toilet is that digital?

its a digital world thats the reason why companies are going digital

but ull never get a great sound without having analog

as i said before best setup would be analog AND digital together same system

there for digital can reduce the hissing and noise in analog and the analog can hit the freqancies that digital cant

i got better things to do on xmas eve then sit here and type away on a keyboard

once again comps are digital and i dont like digital lol

merry xmas all

[pod]

That's pretty much what I said, Andrew. The best systems are a hybrid of analog and digital. Analog source material, followed up by digital processing. Psychoacoustically, analog provides more.

That's why digital compression sucks, it takes out the 'unheard' element in the interest of small file sizes. The only time I put up with compressed audio is for portable applications. It's also why I'm not a fan of Final Scratch in it's current incarnation. Sure, the interface is wonderful, but the DJ who uses Final Scratch is playing back MP3s! You can spot the difference.

But, ask the average clubber if they can...hell no! That's also why all clubs will eventually have a full digital processing suite...they need the control that digital provides, and they'll sacrifice what amounts to a small difference in quality to get that...since the average dancefloor fool doesn't know, and doesn't care. Only fools like us gawk at the loudspeakers and amp racks...or in my case the lighting too.

I don't do sound for a living. I did at one point, though I mainly was a gofer for professional engineers who thought bossing around the squint was funny I never got a formal education in the field, but can hold down a conversation with any sound engineer in town. I can tell you know your shit though, but just don't understand your disdain for digital technology as applied to sound engineering...

[soundmanshorty]

Originally posted by pod

Almost all club systems nowadays use digital processing in some fashion. Almost all live applications too. Even your friend Shorty uses digital processing, it's on his website...any BSS product he's using utilizes digital processing.. It's what gives the system the clarity that the people want. I'd gladly put up a digital rig up against any '100% analog' system out there, if such a setup exists anymore. With a digitally processed system, you can easily get beyond CD quality...

A CD is played back with a sampling rate of 44.1 kHZ and at 16-bit resolution. Vinyl, being an analog format, goes beyond that, but at the same time introduces other problems such as harmonic distortion, rumble, wow, and flutter. A turntable is also very prone to feedback, and you'll hear many inexperienced DJs riding a feedback wave all night. Where digital processing comes in is it takes the raw analog of the vinyl signal, processes out the feedback elements, the clicks and hissing, as well as any other imperfections...and the latest processing gear does it at "24/96" which means a resolution of 24 bit, and a sampling rate of 96 kHZ. A digital source such as a CD benefits from this as well, as some interpolation happens, providing a more detailed signal.

These systems are future-ready too, with the advent of new playback formats such as DVD-Audio and Sony's SACD (SACDs sound fantastic, BTW...).

If you'd like, I'll point out the digital elements in any reputable club on the beach or elsewhere sometime...no reputable installer does a whole-analog install anymore.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My reply twards some comments i`ve read so far regarding this thread:

Ok the BSS product on my site is most definately analog as well as my soundsystems, & I do offer the best product on the market as well. So as far as the digital analog debate analog wins with ease in my opinion it is the best way to reproduce audio.

Now as far as the issues as amps over heating this has nothing to do with the analog or digital processing this has everything to do with how your amps are cooled and the enviorment there in. If you have your amps in a room with no fans or a/c it will over heat no matter what kind of processing there is.

All my systems are designed with rack fans floor fans and a/c and they are most deff all ANALOG.

As far as my clients are concerned ask David Morales how he likes my work i have been his tech for over a year now and im adding more onto his studio reference system and its all ANALOG. Also i work on a club in the hamptons called CPI and OAKEY said it was the warmest and one of the best systems he ever heard or played on and it is analog as well.

Ask Gerry Kelly who owns Level when i did the sound there for Junior Vasquez how he likes my work of coarse the system went thru changes after the event and it had to be put back to its original form at the end of the night so it sounded nothing like it did while we played that room that night Gerry kelly was so thrilled with how it sounded and said that he never heard that room ever sound that good and i only had 4 hrs to work on it so I would love to come down to space and re-engineer that system & redo that system.

www.systemsbyshorty.com

[andrewthomas]

and there u have it folkss

WINNER AND STILL UNDISPUTED HEAVEY BASS KICKER ISSS..

ANALOGGGGG

dunn check me with some dumb shit like i dunno digital sux

SPACE BRING IN SHORTYYYY

SHORtYY

honestly i was at space and the kicks supposed to sound like thump thump and they sound like clap clapp

wayyy to much mids and they eat the shit outa ur ear

horrible digital sound in there and everyone says the same thing

even djs

i hear tons of distortion i thought the coils were gonna blow out the woffers.

and on the patio like 3 speakers are blown the worst one being to the right hand side of the dj booth

[wakeup]

Originally posted by saleen351

My hearing is shot. I even started asking around for hearing plugs... That was a piss poor tunning job over there. From blown speakers to highs that hit so high, most people held their ears, to excessive bass that muffled the vocals and the mids.... It was aweful.... please post who the sound guys are, so we can kick them in the balls....

We all know the new club is comming soon, but don't fuck over your current crowd like that, espcially for DD.

And please don't come on here and blame DD..

:blown:

Though the new space system vs maze will be interesting to see which is better.. I doubt anyone can get a clearer system then maze...

maybe u should spend some more time out on the patio and keep those pit stains goin :laugh: