siceone Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 please ask any economist if this war is about oil please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pookie23 Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by starvingartist It may also be another country where children are taught to hate and resent the U.S. Especially when they uncover the truth as to what happened. You know it will be impossible to hide the fact that half of the globe opposed the war, that half of the U.S. opposed the war, and that nearly everyone believed it was about Oil. The truth of the matter is that the possibilities are endless, I just wish people kept this in mind. Ignorance is not bliss. You must acknowledge that the future is unknown. Win or lose, the impact the war has on the world is unknown. Are you calling me ignorant? Pretty lame just because I have a different opinion than you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvingartist Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by mr mahs I swear to god I wish for one minute you anti-war heads would think outside the box and see the big picture.. Is it about oil? No. Is OIL important in accomplishing the bigger objectives like improving the anti-american sentiment that was created by oppressive governments using the american scapegoat for the countries mis- fortunes.. Yes The oil revenue will rebuild Iraq just like in 1991 when kuwait was liberated, It payed for itself to be rebuilt and the people prospered with minimal terrorism. How ANYONE can't see the similarities in the 2 situations amazes me. We should thank god Iraq has a lucrative natural resource makeS the mission alot easier . The United states will liberate Iraq, install a democratic government that is representative of all the diffrent ethnic groups, it will be guided by the United States until it is a full functioning democracy..Is this really a bad outcome? Aren't the people in Iraq safer? even it is ALL about oil which of course is not true isn't the world a better place. Once the countries sorrounding Iraq realise that they don't have to live in poverty and that life is better, terrorism will drop. In a democracy where the sentiment of society towards the gov't is trustworthy there is no terrorism. Of course you got your loons like half this board that beleives there is hidden agenda behind it all. Our country does shady stuff but for the good of the country that's the way life is.. Im not anti-war. Im anti people thinking the war is about terrorism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvingartist Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by spragga25 Are you calling me ignorant? Pretty lame just because I have a different opinion than you. At no point did I call you ignorant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvingartist Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by siceone please ask any economist if this war is about oil please Are you talking to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr mahs Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by starvingartist Im not anti-war. Im anti people thinking the war is about terrorism. 1-Liberate Iraqi people...2- Rid Iraq of WMD that can be transfered to terrorists groups.3-Install Beacon of Democracy which demonstrates benefits of democracy and a representative govt ..4-Pressure sorrounding countries govt's to clean up it's terrorism or face miltary action. These actions all improve the terrorism situation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siceone Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by starvingartist Are you talking to me? No but I will talk to you all night long if you would like darling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by mr mahs I swear to god I wish for one minute you anti-war heads would think outside the box and see the big picture.. Is it about oil? No. Is OIL important in accomplishing the bigger objectives like improving the anti-american sentiment that was created by oppressive governments using the american scapegoat for the countries mis- fortunes.. Yes The oil revenue will rebuild Iraq just like in 1991 when kuwait was liberated, It payed for itself to be rebuilt and the people prospered with minimal terrorism. How ANYONE can't see the similarities in the 2 situations amazes me. We should thank god Iraq has a lucrative natural resource makeS the mission alot easier . The United states will liberate Iraq, install a democratic government that is representative of all the diffrent ethnic groups, it will be guided by the United States until it is a full functioning democracy..Is this really a bad outcome? Aren't the people in Iraq safer? even it is ALL about oil which of course is not true isn't the world a better place. Once the countries sorrounding Iraq realise that they don't have to live in poverty and that life is better, terrorism will drop. In a democracy where the sentiment of society towards the gov't is trustworthy there is no terrorism. Of course you got your loons like half this board that beleives there is hidden agenda behind it all. Our country does shady stuff but for the good of the country that's the way life is.. i'm tired of pro-war people saying the united states is going to "liberate" iraq. liberate it to what? a democracy? please. a democracy will never work in the middle east because people's values, beliefs,and ways of life connect to the community more than they do individuals. it is a collectivist society which strives to maintain the good of the community, not just an individual. this is a huge difference between western and eastern values. while the west emphasizes the value of the individual and "individuality", the east is the total opposite. for the united states to assume the people are just going to embrace democracy and the western values they bring is ridiculous, and pure bullshit.they are not going to liberate iraq. they are going to do the same thing as they did in afghanistan-instill a puppet regime which answers and kow tows only to the US. then they will usurp all their natural resources until they have stripped the economy and the country bare. then they will continue to wage war against other countries in the name of "terrorism". please...people can't be so dumb as to believe this country is trying to rid the world of terrorism. this country's actions and beliefs are what is causing so many terrorist groups to rise in the first place. look at the root of the problem, not just try to retaliate for every blow you recieve.yet people are continuously being brainwashed, and nitpick people who see things in a more neutral, pacifist light. is it so wrong to be against a war which is no doubt capitalist, imperialist, and egotistical in nature? i don't think so.why is it more civilians have died in iraq than military personnel? clearly, no one has any regard for their lives...this country is committing some of the most serious war crimes of this century right in front of us, and we cannot do anything about it. i only hope bush and his friends see what's coming to them in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siceone Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by sassa i'm tired of pro-war people saying the united states is going to "liberate" iraq. liberate it to what? a democracy? please. a democracy will never work in the middle east because people's values, beliefs,and ways of life connect to the community more than they do individuals. it is a collectivist society which strives to maintain the good of the community, not just an individual. this is a huge difference between western and eastern values. while the west emphasizes the value of the individual and "individuality", the east is the total opposite. for the united states to assume the people are just going to embrace democracy and the western values they bring is ridiculous, and pure bullshit.they are not going to liberate iraq. they are going to do the same thing as they did in afghanistan-instill a puppet regime which answers and kow tows only to the US. then they will usurp all their natural resources until they have stripped the economy and the country bare. then they will continue to wage war against other countries in the name of "terrorism". please...people can't be so dumb as to believe this country is trying to rid the world of terrorism. this country's actions and beliefs are what is causing so many terrorist groups to rise in the first place. look at the root of the problem, not just try to retaliate for every blow you recieve.yet people are continuously being brainwashed, and nitpick people who see things in a more neutral, pacifist light. is it so wrong to be against a war which is no doubt capitalist, imperialist, and egotistical in nature? i think so.why is it more civilians have died in iraq than military personnel? clearly, no one has any regard for their lives...this country is committing some of the most serious war crimes of this century right in front of us, and we cannot do anything about it. i only hope bush and his friends see what's coming to them in the end. its working in russiathey never even had a chance to try you're already wrting the effort off btw turn on your AOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by siceone its working in russiathey never even had a chance to try you're already wrting the effort off btw turn on your AOL what is working in russia? democracy? are you kidding? russia is a mafia state, not a legal state. after communism fell in the early 90's, they were quick to take over just about almost every bank, business, and MNC there is in russia. ANYONE with wealth coming from russia did not do it alone, that is for sure...ever heard of krishna? semyon mogilevich? the red mafia? the bank of new york scandal a few years back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvingartist Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by mr mahs 1-Liberate Iraqi people...2- Rid Iraq of WMD that can be transfered to terrorists groups.3-Install Beacon of Democracy which demonstrates benefits of democracy and a representative govt ..4-Pressure sorrounding countries govt's to clean up it's terrorism or face miltary action. These actions all improve the terrorism situation... Now this opinion I deeply respect. However before you only mentioned terrorism, that is why I was a bit stand offish, hehe.I still disagree somewhat. These actions will not necessarily improve the terrorism situation. In my eyes the goal is to create seperation of power. Those who control oil in Iraq, have military and economic influence worldwide. "Democracy" may broaden the chances of corruption. But our chief objective is to ensure that globalization does not leave us helpless and economically unstable in the hands of someone, some nation, or some group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siceone Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 it took over 200 years for it to work here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvingartist Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by siceone it took over 200 years for it to work here It works here? jk, hehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchbread Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by mr mahs OKAY Frenchie here we go...What you pointed out is that up until 8:45 Sept 11th The United States was a fairy tale land. Americans weren't aware of the real threat of terrorism, it was only something you read about or watched on TV that took place in other countries to far to devote any time from our busy scheduule to even fathom...Seriously didn't EVERYONE think a private small plane hit the first tower?? It wasn't until the shock of the second plane hiting the 2nd tower that Americans knew it was under attack..To say our intelligence which every american was sure would protected us FAILED would be an understatement. The Clinton administration cut spending for military and intelligence but I won't point fingers because we got caught sleeping...I agree with your examples there but to say that ANYONE knew it was really going to happen I disagree. The United states gets THOUSANDS of threats every day and pre 911 we did not have the resources or the initiative to respond..The fact is we can point fingers at everyone all day long but what would that solve?? Did you ever think that the gov't would not want an investigation because it would show to the world we were weak. Would you want to show other nations how the worlds only superpower got caught with it's thumb in it's ass? or would you just rapidly plug the holes in the system by 1)Developing a Dept for Homeland Security2)Increasing military spending 3)Lift the restraints on your intellignce so it can better detect and destroy future threats plus countless other things that make us safer. Beleive me they know how they dropped the ball although not everyone has to know except the people fixing it..To the ant-war or conspiracy thinkers why complain and show our weaknesses? Why would you expend so much energy to show the faults but not follow through with constructive advice?? That is lame bro.. we all live in this country together and whether you beleive it or not people are planning as we speak to destroy it..I asked the people who critisize the govt on this board this very question but no one responds...How would you deal with terorism against the United States or would you rather it be destroyed??? alright here we go again...that's right you didn't know what was going on on the morning of sept. 11th, 2001...that's right a lot of people didn't...that's because it is not our job to know...it's the job of those who breathe, eat and live this shit: nsa, cia, fbi, etc...if you believe for one minute that the FAA didn't know for 50 minutes that FOUR u.s. planes got simulteously hijacked over u.s. territory, taken off course and stopped all communications, you are still living in lala-land...do you honestly believe that the cia, nsa, faa and the rest didn't know?...after all the information they got from all these different countries?...sure they get threats all the time...but it's their job to analyze and assess...and you're a fool if you think they didn't what was going on with so many warnings from so many differents places pertaining to one form of attack and one week...I agree with your examples there but to say that ANYONE knew it was really going to happen I disagree.oh really?...well:august 11th, 2001u.s. navy lt. delmart "mike" vreeland, jailed in toronto on u.s. fraud charges and claiming to be an officer in u.s. naval intelligence, writes details of the pending wtc attacks and seals them in an envelope which he gives to canadian authorities. [source: The Toronto Star, Oct. 23, 2001; Toronto Superior Court Records]we did not have the resources or the initiative to respond..you're kidding right?...the u.s.a. is the country that spends the most money and ressources on military and intelligence...1)Developing a Dept for Homeland Securitywhich even the senate complains at how much underfunded it is...2)Increasing military spendingmmmmhmmm...that's interesting...3)Lift the restraints on your intellignce lol...yea...patriot act...get ready for the 2nd installement...oh did you also know (i'm sure you didn't) that bush passed a law that he can have anyone executed without a trial, proof or any legal justification?...that's right...executive order that came out dec 3rd, 2002...oooh...better not piss the "man" off...I asked the people who critisize the govt on this board this very question but no one responds...How would you deal with terorism against the United States or would you rather it be destroyed??? i would not have it destroyed...i LOVE this country...i hate the people who are spoiling it so that they can profit...and i'll tell you how i would deal with it:i would spend $75Bil on homeland security the second after it's created...but no...bush thinks it's better to underfund homeland security, and go and wage a unilateral war against an arab country smack in the middle of the middle east where we are the least wanted... 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frenchbread Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by spragga25 This was is just another step to end terrorism. Freeing Iraq means that there is one less country that terrorists can hide and train. if there's one thing this war will not do is stop terrorism...that's the on thing this illegal, imperialistic war guarrantees you:MORE HATE TOWARDS US!!!!... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchbread Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by mr mahs I swear to god I wish for one minute you anti-war heads would think outside the box and see the big picture.. Is it about oil? No. Is OIL important in accomplishing the bigger objectives like improving the anti-american sentiment that was created by oppressive governments using the american scapegoat for the countries mis- fortunes.. Yes The oil revenue will rebuild Iraq just like in 1991 when kuwait was liberated, It payed for itself to be rebuilt and the people prospered with minimal terrorism. How ANYONE can't see the similarities in the 2 situations amazes me. We should thank god Iraq has a lucrative natural resource makeS the mission alot easier . The United states will liberate Iraq, install a democratic government that is representative of all the diffrent ethnic groups, it will be guided by the United States until it is a full functioning democracy..Is this really a bad outcome? Aren't the people in Iraq safer? even it is ALL about oil which of course is not true isn't the world a better place. Once the countries sorrounding Iraq realise that they don't have to live in poverty and that life is better, terrorism will drop. In a democracy where the sentiment of society towards the gov't is trustworthy there is no terrorism. Of course you got your loons like half this board that beleives there is hidden agenda behind it all. Our country does shady stuff but for the good of the country that's the way life is.. this war isn't about oil????...what parrallel universe do you live?...for crying out loud, even this administration is telling you it's about oil...first order for cheney after illegally entering the white house:from a group and analyze the u.s.'s energy crisis situation and produce a soultion...results:cheney's energy report:u.s. will be dependant on foreign oil by 65% by 2020 (63% if we use anwr)...more over the oil will have to come from unfriendly regions of the world...do you have any idea how dependant the u.s. economy, our freakin' way of life is dependant on oil?!?!...1991-1997Major us oil companies invest billions in cash in Central Asia to secure equity rights to huge oil reserves. They have no way to get the oil and gas to market.dec. 4, 1997Representatives of the taliban are invited to the Texas headquarters of Unocal to negociate their support for a pipeline to get the oil out through Afghnistan. The negociations fail.feb. 12, 1998Unocal VP John J Maresca testifies before the House that, until a single, unified friendly government is in place in Afghanistan, the pipeline will not be built.april 1999Enron, with a $3 billion investment to build an electrical generating plant at Dabhol, India, loses access to liquid natural-gas supplies from Qatar. Its only remaining option is a trans-Afghani gas pipeline to be built by Unocal from Turkmenistan.1998 and 2000Former President George Bush travels to Saudi Arabia on behalf of the Carlyle Group. While there, he meets privately with the Saudi royal family and the bin Laden family.that's right...if we want oil, we need friendly gov'ts in those countries that happen to have their borders drawn around those oil ressources...Our country does shady stuff but for the good of the country that's the way life is..finally one of you pro-war guys admits it...see at least mr mahs is honest...yet he's a bit contradictory: Of course you got your loons like half this board that beleives there is hidden agenda behind it all.so you admit that the administration does shady stuff, yet you have to be crazy to believe it...mmmhmmm...interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchbread Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by spragga25 Are you calling me ignorant? Pretty lame just because I have a different opinion than you. well i don't know if she called you ignorant, but your reply sounds a bit high and mighty for a guy who insulted me for stating my opinion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pookie23 Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by frenchbread well i don't know if she called you ignorant, but your reply sounds a bit high and mighty for a guy who insulted me for stating my opinion... how was it "high and mighty"?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchbread Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by siceone please ask any economist if this war is about oil please yes please...ask any economist that doesn't work for fox, or the u.s. gov't if this war isn't about oil...ask them if the survival of the american way doesn't depend on cheap oil...like for example ask an economist from harvard...oh no i'm sorry...those harvard people are really really dumb...cp people know much better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchbread Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by mr mahs 1-Liberate Iraqi people...2- Rid Iraq of WMD that can be transfered to terrorists groups.3-Install Beacon of Democracy which demonstrates benefits of democracy and a representative govt ..4-Pressure sorrounding countries govt's to clean up it's terrorism or face miltary action. These actions all improve the terrorism situation... yea...that's called taking over the world:nobody else with wmd's but us...we push our way down everybody's throat...and we kill them if they don't go along with it...but as always, my mahs i appreciate you brutal honesty...at least you don't hide behind bs like the rest of the pro-war people on this board... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchbread Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by spragga25 how was it "high and mighty"?? damn...do you i need to spell it out for you?...you're criticizing her for "insulting" you for having a different opinion...yet that's what exactly what you did to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underwater Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by sassa why is it more civilians have died in iraq than military personnel? clearly, no one has any regard for their lives... there is no possible way that more civilians have died then military personel.....the US gov. is not releasing the # of iraqi soldiers that we have killed....the number is in the range of 30,000 - 50,000......for an accuarate count of civilian deaths go to iraqbodycount.net...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchbread Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by siceone its working in russiathey never even had a chance to try you're already wrting the effort off btw turn on your AOL it's working in russia?...seriously man...what planet are you from...i have plenty of russian friends...some that came here as children...some that came here as adults...some that came here, went back, and came back here again...all of them will tell you unanimously that it is NOT working in russia...i dare you to tell any of them that "it's working in russia"...i'm sorry man, but that's pretty ignorant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pookie23 Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by frenchbread damn...do you i need to spell it out for you?...you're criticizing her for "insulting" you for having a different opinion...yet that's what exactly what you did to me... where did I call you a nameor insult you? I stated that the French are gutless - now if you want to put yourself in that category, go ahead. You're a US CITIZEN, so that doesn't apply to you.Don't go down the road of insults with me, because it's a battle you will never...EVER win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchbread Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Originally posted by spragga25 where did I call you a nameor insult you? I stated that the French are gutless - now if you want to put yourself in that category, go ahead. You're a US CITIZEN, so that doesn't apply to you.Don't go down the road of insults with me, because it's a battle you will never...EVER win. ok first of all, that's where you insulted me:spragga25: "It ain't about color you dip." (page 3 of this thread)...second of all, i did not insult you, so don't threaten me with all you road of insults crap...and thirdly, i'm sure your insulting skills are tremendous...and uh...i'm real proud of there "bro"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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