sassa Posted April 16 Report Share Posted April 16 U.S. Use of Clusters in Baghdad Condemned(New York, April 16, 2003) The U.S. Central Command should respond publicly to evidence that U.S. forces used cluster munitions in a populated area of Baghdad, Human Rights Watch urged today.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Related MaterialHRW Documents on the War in Iraq U.S. Using Cluster Munitions In Iraq HRW Press Release, April 1, 2003 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“U.S. commanders should never use cluster munitions in populated areas...These are wholly inappropriate weapons when civilians are around. The reported use of cluster munitions in Baghdad is a serious charge and the Pentagon must respond publicly to it.†Kenneth RothExecutive Director of Human Rights Watch --------------------------------------------------------------------------------According to a report in yesterday’s Newsday, a Central Command spokeswoman has anonymously confirmed that U.S. forces have hit urban areas of Baghdad with cluster munitions, stating that they were aimed at Iraqi artillery and missile systems located inside the city. “U.S. commanders should never use cluster munitions in populated areas,†said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch. “These are wholly inappropriate weapons when civilians are around. The reported use of cluster munitions in Baghdad is a serious charge and the Pentagon must respond publicly to it.†Newsday’s reporter provided Human Rights Watch with a photograph he had taken inside a building in what he described as a clearly residential neighborhood well inside Baghdad. Human Rights Watch identified an unexploded cluster submunition in the photograph from either a ground-based Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) or an artillery projectile. The damage to the surrounding walls and floor were also consistent with a cluster munition strike. Human Rights Watch has previously reported that, according to The Pentagon’s own data, these particular submunitions have an especially high failure rate. Human Rights Watch believes that the use of cluster munitions in populated areas may violate the prohibition of indiscriminate attacks contained in international humanitarian law. Despite the utility of cluster munitions in achieving certain military objectives, the wide dispersal pattern of their submunitions makes it very difficult to avoid civilians if they are in the area. Moreover, because of their high failure rate, cluster munitions leave large numbers of hazardous, explosive duds to terrorize civilians even after the attack is over. The U.S. Army and Marine Corps may be taking less care to avoid civilian casualties with surface-delivered cluster munitions than the U.S. Air Force with air-delivered cluster munitions, Human Rights Watch said. Human Rights Watch conducted detailed analyses of the U.S. Air Force’s use of cluster bombs in the 1999 Yugoslavia war and the 2001-2002 Afghanistan war. In Afghanistan, the U.S. Air Force used cluster bombs substantially less often in populated areas than they had in Yugoslavia, and therefore caused far fewer civilian deaths with cluster bombs. “It seemed that after Yugoslavia, U.S. commanders learned that cluster munitions cannot be safely used in populated areas,†said Roth. “The use of cluster munitions inside Baghdad represents a disturbing step backwards – with deadly consequences.†It is not yet known if there were civilian casualties at the time of the strike, but Newsday reported on several deaths and injuries to children and others who encountered the explosive duds left by the cluster munitions which failed to detonate on initial impact as designed. The duds function as de facto antipersonnel landmines. This is the first confirmed instance of U.S. use of cluster munitions in Baghdad or other highly populated areas. There have been many unconfirmed allegations of use of both air-dropped and surface-delivered cluster munitions in urban areas by the United States and the United Kingdom. Most notably, some press accounts attributed the deaths of scores of civilians near the village of Hilla in central Iraq on April 1 to U.S. cluster bombs, but the facts have not been established. In light of its admission of use of cluster munitions, and the already documented deaths and injuries to children and other non-combatants, Human Rights Watch called on the United States to take responsibility with the utmost urgency for assuring: the provision of warnings and risk education to the civilian population; the clear demarcation of affected areas in order to effectively exclude civilians; the rapid clearance of dangerous cluster munition duds.“The Pentagon is crowing about the Air Force sparing civilians by using only precision weapons in Baghdad,†said Roth. “But that’s a meaningless achievement if the Army then comes along and indiscriminately batters civilian neighborhoods with cluster munitions.†Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintron Posted April 16 Report Share Posted April 16 CBU's RAWK!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghhhhhost Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 CBU i guess ur reffering to cluster bombs...u go on thinkin that until u c first hand what kinda damage then can really do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted April 17 Author Report Share Posted April 17 Originally posted by cintron CBU's RAWK!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normalnoises Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 Originally posted by cintron CBU's RAWK!! Let me know how much they "RAWK" when one gets dropped in YOUR neighborhood. Lets see how much they' RAWK" when you're dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmatas2277 Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 Originally posted by normalnoises Let me know how much they "RAWK" when one gets dropped in YOUR neighborhood. Lets see how much they' RAWK" when you're dead. i doubt that will ever happen..since we keep military targets outside of neighborhoods... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintron Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 the US knows CBU's are extremely hazardous for urban areas and tries NOT to drop them around such. How do I know?My cousin's an F/A-18 pilot and we've talked about stuff like this.In populated areas, guided weapons such as a maverick, or general purpose bombs should be used.maybe you should actually SEE a cluster bomb being used before you all start on a holy crusade against it.Just be glad it's not napalm or WP Then you'd really bitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgym Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 Originally posted by cintron the US knows CBU's are extremely hazardous for urban areas and tries NOT to drop them around such. How do I know?My cousin's an F/A-18 pilot and we've talked about stuff like this.In populated areas, guided weapons such as a maverick, or general purpose bombs should be used.maybe you should actually SEE a cluster bomb being used before you all start on a holy crusade against it.Just be glad it's not napalm or WP Then you'd really bitch. Well from what i understand from News services, some of these bombs WERE dropped in residential neighborhoods, and little kids pick them up because they look like little toy balls.THis one poor lil kid picked it up, and blew up in his face. It's just horrible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghhhhhost Posted April 18 Report Share Posted April 18 Originally posted by cintron the US knows CBU's are extremely hazardous for urban areas and tries NOT to drop them around such. How do I know?My cousin's an F/A-18 pilot and we've talked about stuff like this.In populated areas, guided weapons such as a maverick, or general purpose bombs should be used.maybe you should actually SEE a cluster bomb being used before you all start on a holy crusade against it.Just be glad it's not napalm or WP Then you'd really bitch. wrong..wrong..wrong..absolutely wrong..ur cousin and the pilots like him dropped cluster bombs in the middle of Belgrade which maimed hundreds of curious children ...look it up...and lets not even talk about the mass quantities of depleted uranium u dropped all over kosovo / serbia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintron Posted April 18 Report Share Posted April 18 Originally posted by ghhhhhost wrong..wrong..wrong..absolutely wrong..ur cousin and the pilots like him dropped cluster bombs in the middle of Belgrade which maimed hundreds of curious children ...look it up...and lets not even talk about the mass quantities of depleted uranium u dropped all over kosovo / serbia kid, try not to make it personal.my cousin did drop weapons over serbia and to this day, it's exactly things like that that haunt him. But what do you do when you've got four or five artillery pieces shelling a town? Take them out with cluster bombs and *hope* that no children decide to go play in those mountains? sometimes there's little choice in the matter, man.as for depleted uranium, it is NOT hazardous unless you decide to go play in and around burned up tanks and other destroyed wreckage. It's not a substance like lead that can seep into drinking water and it's not harmfully radioactive.no offense Serge, but before you go accusing the US of committing any atrocities in that country, you might want to think about accusing the members of that country for being a bunch of warmongering shitheads in the first place. There has been violence in the balkans as far back as history itself, and if you think the tens or hundreds of children killed by explosive ordinance is tragic, then you should also consider the individuals who fire upon towns and point guns at their own countrymen. By all means, NATO could have just ignored it in the first place and stood by and watched thousands upon thousands more get slaughtered. Children too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghhhhhost Posted April 18 Report Share Posted April 18 ur problem is that just like any american ...u cant keep ur facts straight. what i was refering to was the shelling of Belgrade in 1999..not the civil strife of the early 90's. no one was shelling anyone in belgrade except for NATO...the US randomly dropped cluster bombs into a city of millions..and ur telling me they had a legitimate reason to???depleted uranium isnt bad for u?? well shit..put it on a snow cone and leme slurp that motherfucker up!....a relative of mine is a civil engineer..one of the top in the country...they asked him to go survey the damage caused by NATO shelling....a yr later he developed cancer in his BREAST...u convince me it isnt because of the depleted uranium used to shell Belgrade..and ill build u a monument..sure uranium isnt harmful when its some burnt up ass tank sitting in the middle of a meadow..but when u drop it in the middle of a city...it tends to have harmful effects...u tell me not to make it personal..be objective...YOUR COUSIN was bombing MY COUSINS ...how can i not make it personal??? i have to go back and look at bombed out buildings in a city that has more history in one street than the US has in its whole existence...while u watch the play by play on CNN...i was the one who had sleepless nights...i was the one wondering will the next shell hit my uncles...aunts...cousins..etc home..NATO should have ignored the problem...you'll never understand Kosovo Eric...u support the US in solving its own terrorist problem..yet in 1999 u didnt let us solve our own...a) armed militias were running thru the SOUTHER PROVINCE OF SERBIA ( known to u as KOSOVO) ..attempting to liberate the province and annex it neighboring Albania...thats like Mexicans runnin thru Texas attempting to return Texas to Mexico..would you let that happen?? Serbs were being executed by the KLA ..the same KLA that you and the Clinton administration supported..the same KLA which is funded by Osama bin Laden and brought in Hezbollah Mujahadeens to help kill Serb Policemen. c) You bombed a nation..which had a democratically elected president ( i hated milosevic..but unfortunately he was democratically elected) ..for attempting to solve its own internal terrorsit problems...and u accomplished NOTHING...the Serbian people overhthrew Milosevic..proof that if u let shit be..it'd take care of itself..the problem is that people try to rationalize the Balkans..thats impossible unless u were raised there. u will never understand the hatred and history behind all the killing. to make a good guy and a bad guy kinda deal down there is impossible..because everyone is looking to fuck each other ..and no one's hands are clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintron Posted April 18 Report Share Posted April 18 Originally posted by ghhhhhost the problem is that people try to rationalize the Balkans..thats impossible unless u were raised there. u will never understand the hatred and history behind all the killing. to make a good guy and a bad guy kinda deal down there is impossible..because everyone is looking to fuck each other ..and no one's hands are clean. Well, if the country's so war torn and has such a history of violence, why does NATO become the main villain when their forces open fire? And how come the US is suddenly the only country in NATO that's dropping ordinance? There's germany, russia, france, and many others who have forces and warplanes there. I dunno dude. I wasn't there so i'm not gonna pretend i know anything. I just see a LOT of conflict over there, especially over the last century and i wonder how long it's going to go on? If there was peace in that country, then there would be no talk of bombing or casualties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgym Posted April 18 Report Share Posted April 18 Originally posted by cintron my cousin did drop weapons over serbia and to this day, it's exactly things like that that haunt him. But what do you do when you've got four or five artillery pieces shelling a town? Take them out with cluster bombs and *hope* that no children decide to go play in those mountains? sometimes there's little choice in the matter, man.no offense Serge, but before you go accusing the US of committing any atrocities in that country, you might want to think about accusing the members of that country for being a bunch of warmongering shitheads in the first place. There has been violence in the balkans as far back as history itself, and if you think the tens or hundreds of children killed by explosive ordinance is tragic, then you should also consider the individuals who fire upon towns and point guns at their own countrymen. By all means, NATO could have just ignored it in the first place and stood by and watched thousands upon thousands more get slaughtered. Children too. TO the first point, they found cluster bombs in neighborhoods, not necessarily the mountains.And to the 2nd , i can understand fighting against these barbarians, but we shouldn't resort to barbaric means which increase the risk of civilian casualty by using bombs like cluster bombs that seem innocent, but have maimed scores of children in Baghdad.I've seen the pictures of these poor kids with missing limbs and burns, and that just shouldn't happen, even IF we win the war Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintron Posted April 18 Report Share Posted April 18 people mourn about the tragedies of war and yes, there are many to be seen... but that's part of war.A child without an arm or blind in one eye is a sad thing to see, but it's not only caused by a united states cluster bomb. Bullets, artillery shells and hand grenades are just as indiscriminate... and the United States is but one party involved in this sad, violent, neverending charade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchbread Posted April 18 Report Share Posted April 18 Originally posted by cintron CBU's RAWK!! how can you say something like that...i can't believe you actually posted that...you have issues man...seriously...to quote t.d. "your process is all fucked up"..."yea man...they rawk...high five...yea bro..."how old are you?what world do you live in?...ps2 world?...this isn't quakeIII "bro"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintron Posted April 18 Report Share Posted April 18 Originally posted by frenchbread how can you say something like that...i can't believe you actually posted that...you have issues man...seriously...to quote t.d. "your process is all fucked up"..."yea man...they rawk...high five...yea bro..."how old are you?what world do you live in?...ps2 world?...this isn't quakeIII "bro"... first off, don't call me "bro." you don't know me.second off, CBU's are outstanding weapons.and third, i appreciate the design of weaponry, NOT the usage of it. Pardon me if i'm not as squeamish as you and i don't go hide under the bed and whimper when someone mentions the name "bomb."for fuck's sake, it's a message board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghhhhhost Posted April 18 Report Share Posted April 18 Originally posted by cintron Well, if the country's so war torn and has such a history of violence, why does NATO become the main villain when their forces open fire? And how come the US is suddenly the only country in NATO that's dropping ordinance? There's germany, russia, france, and many others who have forces and warplanes there. I dunno dude. I wasn't there so i'm not gonna pretend i know anything. I just see a LOT of conflict over there, especially over the last century and i wonder how long it's going to go on? If there was peace in that country, then there would be no talk of bombing or casualties. for 5 years u left us alone...u had other countries to bomb...clinton gets his dick sucked..lies on the stand...gets caught..and suddenly u need a diversion...whats better than to dig up old conflicts..put a new twist on them...and divert attention from domestic problems......thats exactly what happened..ill repeat it again..we were bombed for dealing with terrorism issues within our own borders..much like the US is doing now by deporting and arresting thousands of muslims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintron Posted April 19 Report Share Posted April 19 Originally posted by ghhhhhost for 5 years u left us alone...u had other countries to bomb...clinton gets his dick sucked..lies on the stand...gets caught..and suddenly u need a diversion...whats better than to dig up old conflicts..put a new twist on them...and divert attention from domestic problems......thats exactly what happened..ill repeat it again..we were bombed for dealing with terrorism issues within our own borders..much like the US is doing now by deporting and arresting thousands of muslims like i said before, it wasn't a US-only effort.There were many other countries involved as well.It was a UN vote and a UN action. If you're going to blame someone, blame the UN for giving a shit. The united states was but one party involved in this charade and even then the authority for attacks and such didn't fall entirely in american hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
£ddie Posted April 19 Report Share Posted April 19 Originally posted by cintron like i said before, it wasn't a US-only effort.There were many other countries involved as well.It was a UN vote and a UN action. If you're going to blame someone, blame the UN for giving a shit. The united states was but one party involved in this charade and even then the authority for attacks and such didn't fall entirely in american hands. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was a NATO action. I don't think it ever went to a security council vote because Russia threatened a veto, fearing American presence in the Balkans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghhhhhost Posted April 19 Report Share Posted April 19 Originally posted by cintron like i said before, it wasn't a US-only effort.There were many other countries involved as well.It was a UN vote and a UN action. If you're going to blame someone, blame the UN for giving a shit. The united states was but one party involved in this charade and even then the authority for attacks and such didn't fall entirely in american hands. the nations pushing this War were England and the US...all other countries involved were tryin to back the fuck out of it...Blair kept pushin for ground troops..but Clinton knew it'd b another Vietnam..worse maybe..if u came into Yugoslavia with troops..so they decided to keep being pussy and dropping bombs from 20,000 feet..u know....being accurate and all..hitting infirmaries..hospitals..the Chinese Embassy..residential neighborhoods..etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintron Posted April 19 Report Share Posted April 19 Originally posted by ghhhhhost so they decided to keep being pussy and dropping bombs from 20,000 feet..u know....being accurate and all..hitting infirmaries..hospitals..the Chinese Embassy..residential neighborhoods..etc etc hitting the chinese embassy was VERY accurate "It was an accident" *cough**cough* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchbread Posted April 19 Report Share Posted April 19 Originally posted by cintron first off, don't call me "bro." you don't know me.second off, CBU's are outstanding weapons.and third, i appreciate the design of weaponry, NOT the usage of it. Pardon me if i'm not as squeamish as you and i don't go hide under the bed and whimper when someone mentions the name "bomb."for fuck's sake, it's a message board. i don't know you personally, but from your posts, like many here, i can tell how childish you are...i don't know you, but you know me, and you know that i go whimper under my bed when i hear the word "bomb"...right...and how's that?...oh yea, because you know all...well for your information, "bomb" is a word, not name...you appreciate weapons, but not the use of it...so it's like art to you then...you want to just look at them and admire them...well pardon me if i think that all the thoughts, efforts and resources that goes into making "rawking cbu's" and moab's could be put to a better use like say: education, medical research, social services... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchbread Posted April 19 Report Share Posted April 19 Originally posted by cintron hitting the chinese embassy was VERY accurate "It was an accident" *cough**cough* that's supposed to be funny?...please explain how...it's funny to deliberately hit the chinese embassy, but if they would hit one of our embassies, it wouldn't be funny at all right?...then the whole world has to stop......everybody has feel for us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted April 21 Author Report Share Posted April 21 Originally posted by frenchbread that's supposed to be funny?...please explain how...it's funny to deliberately hit the chinese embassy, but if they would hit one of our embassies, it wouldn't be funny at all right?...then the whole world has to stop......everybody has feel for us... keep it real, frenchbread.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shroomy Posted April 21 Report Share Posted April 21 How the fuck can anyone bring up Bosnia without mentioning the hundreds of thousands of people ethnically cleansed (also know as shot in the head by someone who didn't like their religion)and how the EU didn't do shit about it for years.and how their was a cease to the war after less than a week of NATO bombing.If you can't see that sometimes the lesser of two evils is a morally correct choice and better than doing nothing because it allows more people to die, you need to seriously examine your thought process.Sure cluster munitions (which self explode after a preset period of time BTW) are horrible, but to not bring up the purposely stationing of military weapons and personnel (who’s job it is to kill people btw) in civilian areas is so much worse that to criticize one alleged incident without mentioning it is absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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