mrmiami Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 this is an article from Paul Edge I got from another boardIs The Rave Scene Dead? A recent article by URB asked the question 'Is the rave scene dead?`, lots of people have been asking me my opinion, so rather than keep making the same arguments over and over again, I have decided to put pen to paper and wear my heart on my sleeve. I find it amusing that when people ask this question, they leave the logical second half off, in my opinion the question should be "Is the rave scene dead or is the product just not good enough". Now let me elaborate. Assuming every car manufacturer in the world started selling cars without engines, and logically people stopped buying cars, would people ask the question "Is personal travel dead?" Or would they say "Cars are great...new form of travel needed urgently" I think possibly the latter. I have been involved in clubs and the underground for many years, I have seen the same question posted around the world, just before ironically, a major club explosion. Clubbing is a way of life for many people, it is a recreational form of escape that many choose. It mystifies me that when the dancefloor emptys, when clubs start suffering, people blame the way of life rather than focus on the product. The reality is, and this is no way being disrespectful to superstar DJs, that these guys are no longer groundbreaking. They play music that perpetuates the status quo, and that is their choice. For me clubbing is a life influencing thing, it is something I take very seriously. The fact that I happen to make a living out of it is even better, but even if I didn`t, I would still go to clubs. Witness message boards around the USA, the demand for club culture (rave culture) still exists, but the clubbers are choosing not to go out. Why? A number of social factors come into play. Firstly, the basis of all consumer driven products..Value for Money...The UK is different to virtually any other Western Economy - people are, for the large part, broke. Housing is expensive, Gas is expensive, cigarettes are expensive, taxes are high and so once you`ve paid all your monthly bills, you don`t have a lot of money left over. So people choose very carefully where they spend their money. They don`t waste it. Most people in the UK go out once a week, that has to suffice. When they go out, they make sure they are getting VFM. The USA is a wealthy country, or was before the current recession took hold. The money supply has been greatly reduced, middle America has had to tighten the purse strings. Whereas 10 years ago, people could afford to spunk $30 on a party, that wasn`t that good, now they are saying, "Well fuck it, I can stay in and watch the home shopping channel and save my money." Therein lies the problem. The product has ceased to inspire. Just because people don`t go out, doesn`t mean they don`t want to go out. They still go out, just not to parties. So someone is selling them better than the parties do, its quite simple. There was a time when Rave Culture in this country exploded. Why? What has changed? Kids are kids, so not that. Venues are venues so not that. Sound systems are sound systems so not that. What is left?...The Music...I don`t understand how difficult this is to comprehend. When music ceases to inspire, kids want the music less than they want the money it costs. Basic sales and basic economics. Another factor is the underage part. No club in Europe admits underage legally, those that do are shunned by the clubbers or society. There is a reason for this. Your tastes at 14 are not developed, you do not have the musical maturity to fully understand dance music...hence Britney, Justin bloody Timberlake et al. The US scene was made up of 14 year olds dictating musical policy. So the musical policy became 14 year old policy, hence the popularity of Oakenfold. like all 14 year old obsessions, it becomes a fad. Dance music is something you discover, it is a rebellion against corporate pap. The fact that 50% of the scene has grown up, doesn`t mean the scene is dying, it just means exactly that, the scene is growing up. So naturally, the "Superstar DJ Gods" who continue to try to appeal to the 14 year old mind, are discovering that in a demographically aging audience, their "draw" is diminishing. Promoters also have to step up here and take some responsibility. As their marketplace diminishes for the reason`s listed above, they react by cutting costs. The irony is they never cut costs where they should be, like the vastly over priced "Superstar DJ talent". No, they cut back on clubber care, security, quality of sound, innovation and responsibility. They lower door standards, to keep being able to pay for "Superstar DJ's". This in turn means the true clubber is forced to mix with people they don`t want to mix with, thats why they are clubbers. Why pay $25 to mix with a bunch of leery beer monsters, get attitude, be laughed at because you do not wear chinos and shirts if you are a bloke, or rip chord pants and cuban heels if you are a girl. These people do not belong in clubs, if I was a clubber, I certainly wouldn`t pay money for the privilege of hanging out with them. By reducing the lowest common demoninator for your clubbers, you then attract unsavoury elements. Then society steps in, i.e the Rave Act. Now is the time in the USA for club culture to explode. Club culture has always been a working class movement, working class defined by various socio-economic factors that currently prevail within the USA. It has nothing to do with drugs, if music is good enough, if the DJ is good enough, drugs become less and less a determining factor. I believe that everyone needs to get out of this "Emperor`s new clothes" mentality, the sad truth is most of the superstar DJ's in the USA simply are not good enough, musically. People are bored, an 18 year old needs to rebel. How can you rebel against anything when you get home and hear your mom and dad listening to what you were listening to a few hours earlier in a club. My mum, who I love very much, hates what I play, and rightly so. It has nothing to do with the quality of my music, it is purely about the attitude the music represents. I am not the biggest fan of drum and bass, but I respect the genre for these very reasons. The sad fact is that US clubs, and promoters need to have a major rethink of their policies. Innovation needs to be re-introduced, by innovation I mean the hungry young local DJ, who needs to be given prime time exposure instead of being relegated as a second class citizen in the DJ hierarchy. One off parties need to stop, weeklies engender a community spirit, an educational process musically that all clubbers undergo in Europe. Headliners need to be booked not only on draw, but also based on what they do behind the decks. If the party is good enough, people will support it, irrespective of what headlining talent you have playing. Exposure due to being able to buy it, or because of who you know, does not make you a good DJ. The magazines, who have a vested financial interest in hyping talentless individuals because in return their advertising budgets are met, are not the way to go to to get information. Magazines serve a purpose and there are some good commercial mags out there, but just because someone can afford to pay $10,000 for the front cover is no testament to ability. Finally, the kids need to be treated like first class citizens with an opinion that matters. They do after all pay our wages. If your club empties, at least have the repect for the people to listen to what they are saying. Ignoring them will just anger them, and rightly so. The rave scene is not dead, it may be in a stage of metamorphosis, thats about it.. Kind regards Paul Edge -If you think that the above statement holds any truth, and you can relate to anything that has been said here, please feel free to post this wherever you think may be appropriate. Peace... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funketeer Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 I began to read this article right after I shaved...when I finished...I had a full beard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernextnation Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 Originally posted by funketeer I began to read this article right after I shaved...when I finished...I had a full beard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest saleen351 Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 he's an idealist....not a realist....You can't fix the scene... It's over... Only way you can fix it, which he clearly points out, is for superstar djs to take a huge pay cut. Not gonna happen. Anyone who's ever studied OPEC in college will tell you that no matter what, it won't happen. Only way for it to happen is by those djs not drawing.. Since they continue to draw no clubs will colude and reduce your costs... Why won't the clubs colude? Cause one always cheats... Just like the way OPEC doesn't work! LP started this trend when he opened space, thus killing the scene... Now space, LP and other clubs can't fix it. Think about it, space, nv, crobar, level, crobar 24, nocturnal, maze nerve all would have to NOT book those big name djs... Never gonna happend, one of those clubs will book the big acts thus the collusion is over, and you are back to square one...it's over...it was fueled by drugs...chart the drugs bust vs club crowds, and you'll notice as soon as X went to a felony, the scene took a huge down turn, and now we are done!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tranzwhore Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 i don't think the scene is over but it is different. let's keep our fond memories and just try to have the best time possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeacasta2 Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 The scene that we knew ran it's course. The same thing happened to disco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmia Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 saleen, u still talking about Space ????, Ok, so if I give my opinion regarding you and you "won" (whatever that means) ?, so If you keep talking about space, Space won ??? how does this won thing work, let me know !!!, can't wait to hear your answer !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest saleen351 Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 Originally posted by jcmia saleen, u still talking about Space ????, Ok, so if I give my opinion regarding you and you "won" (whatever that means) ?, so If you keep talking about space, Space won ??? how does this won thing work, let me know !!!, can't wait to hear your answer !!! won = owneddddddddddddddddddddddd!get a clue... you are new at the messageboard game, i suggest you pick up a copy of my book ..." how to party like a guido without paying for drinks or cover charges" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tranzwhore Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 Originally posted by georgeacasta2 The scene that we knew ran it's course. The same thing happened to disco. let's hope house music dies soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmia Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 I told you already, been around longer than you, way longer !, but anyhoot, that's not important, still interested in the "who won" thing ? you Still haven't answered about you & space and how you keep mentioning them, and who won, and what "won" really means ??? I love your responses, they keep coming back more half-wit than the other, TOO FUNNY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 It's a combination of many factors. Like it or not, the whole drug thing in the US club scene did play a factor. Using X, even at a moderate level, is a temporary thing...to get that same "effect" you have to take more and more...equalling more $$$. Eventually, people got worn out from it, and were less inclined to go out, since they couldn't get into the music without the drug. They were going out because it was trendy to do, and they could do their drugs without much fear of prosecution. Saleen was partially right...making X use a felony hurt the scene...I challenge you all to really look deep down inside and wonder how you would fare without any sort of drug use. I'll candidly admit to doing pretty much everything under the sun at one point, but it wasn't for me. My drug is a $2200 chunk of steel and aluminum around my neck (sidebar, photography is a worse habit than any drug...I'd have more money if I was strung out on heroin...)Economic factors hurt too...$30 for any DJ is a chunk of change for a night out...nevermind drink prices, parking, and so forth...by the end of the night you're out $60-$70 or more for one person...double that if you're any kind of gentleman and take care of your girlfriend. Nevermind gas prices if you live up north and have to drive down here...a night out gets costly after awhile...the clubs kept their 1999 prices in a 2003 society.The author of the article is right, a lot of DJs play for that pop-trendy crowd of misfits out there, alienating that core market thst supports them in the times of need...dare I say Oakenfold? He tried to put that tripe over on Miami...no one showed up except for a few suburban miscreants, the idly curious, and industry folk. Oakie was a good DJ once, I want that Oakie back. Clubbing isn't really dead, it's just a victim of the economy, the changing taste of the masses, and other such factors. I have a feeling that the "scene" will go a bit off the scope over the next few years, and re-emerge at some point to shake up things in society again. Clubs themselves will survive, which ones do is a whole 'nother post...but overall, the scene itself is going towards that overused "u" word that some of you use to describe 5,000 person capacity venues.It'll be a sorting out in a way. Crap venues (you know who you are!) will fall by the wayside as there will be less and less clubbers to go about...only the serious places will pull through, and I'll imagine Miami being home to one or two megaclub-class venues, and some smaller places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vipnerd Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 Originally posted by saleen351 he's an idealist....not a realist....You can't fix the scene... It's over... Only way you can fix it, which he clearly points out, is for superstar djs to take a huge pay cut. Not gonna happen. Anyone who's ever studied OPEC in college will tell you that no matter what, it won't happen. Only way for it to happen is by those djs not drawing.. Since they continue to draw no clubs will colude and reduce your costs... Why won't the clubs colude? Cause one always cheats... Just like the way OPEC doesn't work! LP started this trend when he opened space, thus killing the scene... Now space, LP and other clubs can't fix it. Think about it, space, nv, crobar, level, crobar 24, nocturnal, maze nerve all would have to NOT book those big name djs... Never gonna happend, one of those clubs will book the big acts thus the collusion is over, and you are back to square one...it's over...it was fueled by drugs...chart the drugs bust vs club crowds, and you'll notice as soon as X went to a felony, the scene took a huge down turn, and now we are done!!!!! Music with soul doesn't need "X" ... ... this is not learned ... nor needs stimulants ... it grows from inside out ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 Marcos is right, but tell that to the idiots you see sweating way too much for their own good on the dancefloor, and they're not dancing. I'm exempt because I sweat like a pig standing still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mursa Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 I also feel that the bad Economic times have hit the "scene" in a negative way aswell . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orisha Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 Originally posted by pod Marcos is right, but tell that to the idiots you see sweating way too much for their own good on the dancefloor, and they're not dancing. I'm exempt because I sweat like a pig standing still. take some a zinc supplement kiddo, you probably don't eat right, being a bachelor and all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmia Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 pod. your view is pretty correct !, I see (and know) loads of people who cannot enjoy a night out without the use of stimulants. The more they have partied the more they need. I think clubbing in whole is on the down side (worldwide). I know many people in my age group are slowly shifting away from the club scene (settling down sort-a). Hip hop is huge and the younger kids listen to much more hip hop than anything. So who is left to go to clubs. Miami also is a scene kinda' town. Alot of people really don't appreciate the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southof5th Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 Originally posted by saleen351 he's an idealist....not a realist....You can't fix the scene... It's over... Only way you can fix it, which he clearly points out, is for superstar djs to take a huge pay cut. Not gonna happen. Anyone who's ever studied OPEC in college will tell you that no matter what, it won't happen. Only way for it to happen is by those djs not drawing.. Since they continue to draw no clubs will colude and reduce your costs... Why won't the clubs colude? Cause one always cheats... Just like the way OPEC doesn't work! LP started this trend when he opened space, thus killing the scene... Now space, LP and other clubs can't fix it. Think about it, space, nv, crobar, level, crobar 24, nocturnal, maze nerve all would have to NOT book those big name djs... Never gonna happend, one of those clubs will book the big acts thus the collusion is over, and you are back to square one...it's over...it was fueled by drugs...chart the drugs bust vs club crowds, and you'll notice as soon as X went to a felony, the scene took a huge down turn, and now we are done!!!!! dude don't try to be so sensationalist...nothing is 'over'...people have been going out for decades, even centuries, to bars and clubs...that is nothing new this year, last, or the year before...drugs, alcohol, and what not are not GOING ANYWHERE...that is the reality of mankind...people come to miami for the sun and beaches...and parties will happen regardless... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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