Report: Al-Qaida network very active in Europe

[igloo]

Report: Al-Qaida network very active in Europe

Islamic extremists said to use EU as recruiting ground and base

Updated: 7:37 a.m. ET Dec. 19, 2003 BRUSSELS, Belgium -

Extremist groups linked to Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaida network are very active in European Union states, using them as a recruiting ground and a base, a report from the EU’s police agency Europol has concluded.

The report on “Terrorist Activity in the European Union,†based on intelligence from EU states, also said the groups regarded Europe as a potential target for attacks.

Al-Qaida, blamed for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States, has also been linked by investigators to attacks in Asia, notably the Bali bombings and is suspected of supporting anti-U.S. insurgents in Iraq.

“While the (EU) has not been a victim of Islamic extremist attacks within its boundaries (in the last year), attacks overseas, notably in Morocco, were obviously targeting its citizens and interests, confirming if necessary the previous threats from Osama bin Laden,†said the report, seen by Reuters.

“The fact that no Islamic extremist attack has been committed in the European Union (since October 2002) should not be considered as a diminution or an absence of threat,†said the report, based on data for the period October 2002-October 2003.

Groups most active in big EU states

Groups with links to al-Qaida seem to be most active in the big EU states such as Germany, France, Britain, Italy and Spain, where police have cracked down on groups and people suspected of links to the group and in some cases averting planned attacks.

'The main focus is still on Islamic (extremist) groups close to al-Qaida which are very active in the European Union, which they consider both as a potential target, a recruiting ground and a logistical base.'

In March a German court convicted four men of conspiracy to murder for planning an attack on a Christmas market in Strasbourg, France, using a home-made bomb.

French authorities have arrested 71 suspects since May 2002, of whom 38 remain in custody.

Britain, which the report said was considered by bin Laden and al-Qaida to be a “priority target,†also had intensive investigations of possible terror activity, leading to the arrests of more than a dozen people.

“The main focus is still on Islamic (extremist) groups close to al-Qaida which are very active in the European Union, which they consider both as a potential target, a recruiting ground and a logistical base,†the report said.

The Europol study is expected to be approved formally by EU governments on Monday and will be published once it has been sent to the European Parliament.

Copyright 2003 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters.

[igloo]

marksimons.....

I was wondering if perhaps you can mobilize your coffee house comrades and demand of your European governments why this is happening, and what is being done to combat this.....

Perhaps you can refocus your energies and attention on why Europe is a "recruiting" and "logistics" center for AL Qaeda..

How about you and your pals hit the streets of London to demand that European leaders do more to remove this cancer from the world....or at the very least diminish their capability..

Is this not a good cause?.......should you not be asking this from your leaders?

Since you always claim that your obsession in anti-Americanism is just constructive criticism, perhaps you can apply that to Europe, since after all, failure in Europe to adequately address this true danger is a threat to all of us...

How about a European Patriot Act?.......Perhaps, just perhaps the hyper hysteria from the alarmist left is misguided and unfounded, and that Europe needs to take a harder look at similar measures...

[igloo]

still waiting marksimons

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by igloo

marksimons.....

I was wondering if perhaps you can mobilize your coffee house comrades and demand of your European governments why this is happening, and what is being done to combat this.....

Perhaps you can refocus your energies and attention on why Europe is a "recruiting" and "logistics" center for AL Qaeda..

How about you and your pals hit the streets of London to demand that European leaders do more to remove this cancer from the world....or at the very least diminish their capability..

Is this not a good cause?.......should you not be asking this from your leaders?

Since you always claim that your obsession in anti-Americanism is just constructive criticism, perhaps you can apply that to Europe, since after all, failure in Europe to adequately address this true danger is a threat to all of us...

How about a European Patriot Act?.......Perhaps, just perhaps the hyper hysteria from the alarmist left is misguided and unfounded, and that Europe needs to take a harder look at similar measures...

AMEN!

[igloo]

Originally posted by mr mahs

AMEN!

Do you think marksimons is avoiding the thread because he is indeed too busy rounding up his comrades to hit the streets?

Then again, maybe not....if it was up to him, Saddam Hussein would still be in power, so perhaps he is not worried about AL Qaeda activity in his backyard....

Must be too busy digging up some "credible" documents showing how the CIA covertly worked to break up the Spice Girls

[marksimons]

logistically it makes sense that there's al quaeda in europe, it's a lot f'ing easier to get here than the US, overland travel within the eu is realatively easy, so yeah, logistically possible to get in easier than in to the us.

but iirc some of the sept 11 people trained in were supposed to have trained american flying schools in florida.

"In March a German court convicted four men of conspiracy to murder for planning an attack on a Christmas market in Strasbourg, France, using a home-made bomb.

"French authorities have arrested 71 suspects since May 2002, of whom 38 remain in custody.

"Britain, which the report said was considered by bin Laden and al-Qaida to be a ?priority target,? also had intensive investigations of possible terror activity, leading to the arrests of more than a dozen people.

"?The main focus is still on Islamic (extremist) groups close to al-Qaida which are very active in the European Union, which they consider both as a potential target, a recruiting ground and a logistical base,? the report said."

seems like they're doing stuff.

there is somewhere in the uk that is considered our equivelent of guantanamo, but on a smaller scale in some drab looking building.

david blunket is a crap home secretary and our own police have serious problems with communications, as there isn't actually a unified uk information set up, a recent murder trial just showed our police force to be somewhat lacking in some aspects of tracking suspicious people, allegations of offences that don't result in conviction, that sorta stuff, could have implications for terroism. however, I would say given the experience the uk has had with dealing with irish terroism, perhaps they'll be on the case, but the methods can be dodgy.

our govt isn't doing the best it can do to stop terroism by being involved in iraq either, that whole situation is producing more sympathy, misplaced we have to say, for the methods of bin laden.

but the other thing is, there are issues with the whole term 'al quaeda' whether groups in different places of the world are linked by the mysterious conspiracy instigated by bin laden.

you scoff at my conspiracy theroies but there have been big assumptions made with regards to the war on terror.

also terroism in different areas has to be delt with in different ways.

the thing is, there are real issues which have resulted in people resorting to terroism, they're not doing this for fun.

there are very real issues that have to be faced up to with regards to how the world works. we have to admit, or somehow realise that systems set up and perpetuated by the west, or more acurately the north west, have got to address problems we are in part responsible for.

in the middle east we're dealing with the fallout from the british empire and the cold war, israel is another matter, but closely linked.

in britain and other european nations, we have done are part for that, and some of our leaders are as hypocritical as bush, if not quite as radical as bush.

the whole situation is fucking complex and a fucking mess.

but it's our futures.

me and a mate were discussing this, about why we're so pissed off, and we worked out that, if bush gets in next time, and then someone from his clan gets the torch passed on to him, we could quickly be in 2012, and what on earth could have happend in the mean time?

america are, in the suni triangle, using tactics that are borrowed from israel. israel has been involved in a war of occupation and oppression for 50 years. inspires optimism doesn't it...

iraq is somewhat bigger than the west bank and gaza strip.

I'm pretty fucking concerned about the whole picture really.

the WTO trade talks break down, deadlock between the rich and poor, there's serious issues about the development of europe, arguing over a constitution, we can't even fucking decide to plunge in and admit we're european...

it's a fucking state.

me and a mate are working out when we'll start taking to the streets, stuff like this is a good idea, but we need to do something suitable for the uk but you've gotta plan these things properly, we've gotta get materials and we need a website, and some content, but I've just found a wonderful piece of server side software that looks just the ticket for what we want...

[igloo]

I am not going to bother agreeing or disagreeing with most of your diatribe....this was not the point, and much too boring...

As usual, your response is diarrhea of the keyboard....

As usual you diverted the focus to your anti-Bush message and anti-Iraq war message

As usual, you just can't focus on the main topic....

When are you and your comrades going to put thousands in the streets to demand better action and creativity SPECIFICALLY on the AL Qaeda threat......

Spare me your rants and tangents.......stick to the main point.....I am not interested right now in your rants on the WTO, EU constitution, wealth redistribution, Israel, and your anti-American bullshit....

I want to know when you are going to mobilize your comrades with equal passion as to why not more is being done to face the Al Qaeda threat in Europe........

Since you always claim to be so concerned with U.S. behavior and its influence, you should be sensitive to my concern with European behavior (or lack of) to take appropriate measures against a real threat to the U.S. (and the world)....

Get on your boots and march....it should be just as easy for you to paint a "Bin Laden is a terrorist" sign as it was for you to do on Bush.......

What say you hypocrite?

[igloo]

Originally posted by igloo

I am not going to bother agreeing or disagreeing with most of your diatribe....this was not the point, and much too boring...

As usual, your response is diarrhea of the keyboard....

As usual you diverted the focus to your anti-Bush message and anti-Iraq war message

As usual, you just can't focus on the main topic....

When are you and your comrades going to put thousands in the streets to demand better action and creativity SPECIFICALLY on the AL Qaeda threat......

Spare me your rants and tangents.......stick to the main point.....I am not interested right now in your rants on the WTO, EU constitution, wealth redistribution, Israel, and your anti-American bullshit....

I want to know when you are going to mobilize your comrades with equal passion as to why not more is being done to face the Al Qaeda threat in Europe........

Since you always claim to be so concerned with U.S. behavior and its influence, you should be sensitive to my concern with European behavior (or lack of) to take appropriate measures against a real threat to the U.S. (and the world)....

Get on your boots and march....it should be just as easy for you to paint a "Bin Laden is a terrorist" sign as it was for you to do on Bush.......

What say you hypocrite?

marksimons....are you hitting the streets?

[marksimons]

not today, but next year.

I am a student in liverpool, it's quite a small place, I can walk into the center of town from my house in about 20 mins, we can be in a really busy highstreet where there are all sorts of demonstrators, performers, chairty workers at various points.

we need to work out a campaign, get some content, design a few things, but the drugs scene here is very liberal. I mean the beatles came from here, and this is very close to manchester which had the Hacienda, which is legendary in the british club scene.

you can get ecstacy here for about £ 1.50 a pill if you buy in bulk, and I can have high quality skunk delivered to the door.

we think a legalise weed message, with some info about the situation in other countries, a lil' bit about the CIA, about the prisons in america, about the medical stuff, could be fun.

then there's politics and all the associated stuff, still need to do some more reading and thinking before we work out exactly what angle we're gonna take, but it should be fun...

woohoo...

man, it's our future, we've gotta start trying to build a genuine social, political and cultural movement, and that's gonna require some luck, a bit of balls, and being in the right place at the right time.

luckily liverpool has won the european capital of culture 2008, so sorta in a place with a cool vibe right now, especially the clubbing and music scene.

- DJ Shadow came over and said, "FUCK GEORGE BUSH, it feels good to say that, we didn't vote for him, if he gets in next time, then blame us" heheh, so, I dunno, I really kinda like and respect DJ shadow, feels good that people like him, and most people in real hip hop feel the same way.

so I dunno.

streets, the superhighway, whatever we need to do...

[igloo]

Originally posted by marksimons

not today, but next year.

I am a student in liverpool, it's quite a small place, I can walk into the center of town from my house in about 20 mins, we can be in a really busy highstreet where there are all sorts of demonstrators, performers, chairty workers at various points.

we need to work out a campaign, get some content, design a few things, but the drugs scene here is very liberal. I mean the beatles came from here, and this is very close to manchester which had the Hacienda, which is legendary in the british club scene.

you can get ecstacy here for about £ 1.50 a pill if you buy in bulk, and I can have high quality skunk delivered to the door.

we think a legalise weed message, with some info about the situation in other countries, a lil' bit about the CIA, about the prisons in america, about the medical stuff, could be fun.

then there's politics and all the associated stuff, still need to do some more reading and thinking before we work out exactly what angle we're gonna take, but it should be fun...

woohoo...

man, it's our future, we've gotta start trying to build a genuine social, political and cultural movement, and that's gonna require some luck, a bit of balls, and being in the right place at the right time.

luckily liverpool has won the european capital of culture 2008, so sorta in a place with a cool vibe right now, especially the clubbing and music scene.

- DJ Shadow came over and said, "FUCK GEORGE BUSH, it feels good to say that, we didn't vote for him, if he gets in next time, then blame us" heheh, so, I dunno, I really kinda like and respect DJ shadow, feels good that people like him, and most people in real hip hop feel the same way.

so I dunno.

streets, the superhighway, whatever we need to do...

Mind boggling this is your response....you may have ADD...

Please go back and read my post and ANSWER the question....

[marksimons]

you asked if we were hitting the streets...

I like his album...

[igloo]

Originally posted by marksimons

you asked if we were hitting the streets...

I like his album...

Exposed. Case closed.

[marksimons]

heheh, with regards to the streets, get his song The Irony Of It, a funny song about weed and booze:

Hello, Hello. My names Terry and I'm a law abider

There's nothing I like more than getting fired up on beer

And when the weekends here I to exercise my right to get paralytic and fight

Good bloke fairly

But I get well leery when geezers look at me funny

Bounce 'em round like bunnies

I'm likely to cause mischief

Good clean grief you must believe and I ain't no thief.

Law abiding and all, all legal.

And who cares about my liver when it feels good

Wwhat you need is some real manhood.

Rasher Rasher Barney and Kasha putting peoples backs up.

Public disorder, I'll give you public disorder.

I down eight pints and run all over the place

Spit in the face of an officer

See if that bothers you cause I never broke a law in my life

Someday I'm gonna settle down with a wife

Come on lads lets have another fight

Eh hello. My names Tim and I'm a criminal,

In the eyes of society I need to be in jail

For the choice of herbs I inhale.

This ain't no wholesale operation

Just a few eighths and some Playstations my's vocation

I pose a threat to the nation

And down the station the police hold no patients

Let's talk space and time

I like to get deep sometimes and think about Einstein

And Carl Young And old Kung Fu movies I like to see

Pass the hydrator please

Yeah I'm floating on thin air.

Going to Amsterdam in the New Year - top gear there

Cause I taker pride in my hobby

Home made bongs using my engineering degree

Dear Leaders, please legalise weed for these reasons.

Like I was saying to him.

I told him: "Top with me and you won't leave."

So I smacked him in the head and downed another Carling

Bada Bada Bing for the lad's night.

Mad fight, his face's a sad sight.

Vodka and Snake Bite.

Going on like a right geez, he's a twat,

Shouldn't have looked at me like that.

Anyway I'm an upstanding citizen

If a war came along I'd be on the front line with em.

Can't stand crime either them hooligans on heroin.

Drugs and criminals those thugs on the penny coloured will be the downfall of society

I've got all the anger pent up inside of me.

You know I don't see why I should be the criminal

How can something with no recorded fatalities be illegal

And how many deaths are there per year from alcohol

I just completed Gran Tourismo on the hardest setting

We pose no threat on my settee

Ooh the pizza's here will someone let him in please

"We didn't order chicken, Not a problem we'll pick it out

I doubt they meant to mess us about

After all we're all adults not louts."

As I was saying, we're friendly peaceful people

We're not the ones out there causing trouble.

We just sit in this hazy bubble with our quarters

Discussing how beautiful Gail Porter is.

MTV, BBC 2, Channel 4 is on until six in the morning.

Then at six in the morning the sun dawns and it's my bedtime.

Causing trouble, your stinking rabble

Boys saying I'm the lad who's spoiling it

You're on drugs it really bugs me when people try and tell me I'm a thug

Just for getting drunk

I like getting drunk

Cause I'm an upstanding citizen

If a war came along I'd be on the front line with em.

Now Terry you're repeating yourself

But that's okay drunk people can't help that.

A chemical reaction inside your brain causes you to forget what you're saying.

What. I know exactly what I'm saying

I'm perfectly sane

You stinking student lameo

Go get a job and stop robbing us of our taxes.

Err, well actually according to research

Government funding for further education pales in insignificance

When compared to how much they spend on repairing

Leery drunk people at the weekend

In casualty wards all over the land.

Why you cheeky little swine come here

I'm gonna batter you. Come here.

[igloo]

There is a medicine for ADD. Perhaps you should look into it.

Then again, it is more probable that you are just chooing to ignore the question, since once again you have been exposed as a hypocritical fraud.

p.s. Good job ignoring other posts/threads as well on similar subjects.

[marksimons]

ritalin is like cocaine, and america uses 90% of the stuff.

I like to think americas are forced to drug their children because to deal with them properly is too much hassle.

actually.

I don't believe that.

it's the parmacutical lobby making money from giving amphetamines to kids...

personally I think weed is a good cure for ADD, but seriously, the diagnosis and treatment for ADD is a slightly controversial area for some people in the medical profession.

[igloo]

Originally posted by marksimons

ritalin is like cocaine, and america uses 90% of the stuff.

I like to think americas are forced to drug their children because to deal with them properly is too much hassle.

actually.

I don't believe that.

it's the parmacutical lobby making money from giving amphetamines to kids...

personally I think weed is a good cure for ADD, but seriously, the diagnosis and treatment for ADD is a slightly controversial area for some people in the medical profession.

Sucker...

Exposed again. Dumb sucker.

[marksimons]

check.

the.

facts.

exposed.

Ritalin 'Cocaine Properties' May Lead To Later Drug Abuse

A medicine regularly taken by millions of hyperactive children has similar properties to cocaine and

could encourage drug abuse in later life, New Scientist magazine said Thursday.

Methylphenidate, better known as Ritalin, is the leading treatment for a neurological condition known

as attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), which prevents children from concentrating on a

task for more than a few seconds.

New Scientist said growing concerns over the long-time effects of the drug, a stimulant that works by

making the neurotransmitter dopamine more available in the brain, have put it on the agenda for the

U.S. National Institutes of Health conference on ADHD, scheduled for November.

A 1995 study by Nora Volkow, director of nuclear medicine at the Brookhaven National Laboratory in

Upton, New York, found that Ritalin's properties were very similar to cocaine. Volkow said there was

no evidence of a link between Ritalin and cocaine abuse but added 10 to 30 percent of cocaine addicts

take it because they have ADHD.

"When we give them Ritalin, the cocaine problem is resolved," she told New Scientist. Another study

by Susan Schenk, a psychopharmacologist at Texas A&M University in College Station, and Nadine

Lambert, a developmental psychologist at the University of California at Berkeley, followed the

progress of 5,000 children with ADHD from adolescence into early adulthood.

In a paper to be published in October, Lambert argues that children on Ritalin are more likely to

smoke as adults.

http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Sector/7162/Ritalin.htm

Ritalin - The Feminists? Answer to Active Little Boys

By: Mary Mostert, Analyst, Original Source (www.originalsources.com)

September 2, 1999

A study published recently by the American Journal of Public Health which involved 30,000 children in two school districts in Virginia strongly suggestes that ADHD, the attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, ?may be overdiagnosed, and the drug used to treat the condition may be overprescribed.?

Really now? Having raised a very active boy who quite definitely would be on Ritalin today if his teachers had their way, I still doubt the existence of the ?disorder.? Today, nearly 6 percent of the school-age population in the United States has been diagnosed with ADHD, a condition ?characterised by impulsive behaviour and difficulties in paying attention and keeping still.? Approximately 90 percent of patients with ADHD take the drug Ritalin.

Ritalin, or methylphenidate, is a mild central nervous system stimulant. It boosts the brain's ability to control impulsive behaviour and helps children concentrate. Dr. Mary Ann Block the author of "No More Ritalin" refers to Ritalin as "kiddie cocaine" and contends it can cause dangerous behaviour. (see: http://www.blockcenter.com/main.htm) Among my grandchildren?s generation, Ritalin use, in my opinion, quite definitely IS being used as ?kiddie cocaine? to ?control? normal boy behavior.

Today, when a child is totally bored in school, or jumps from one subject to another, you can bet someone at that school is going to pressure the parents to put the kid of Ritalin. In fact, one of my grandaughters, far less active and less rambunctious than her uncle at the same age was teacher-diagnosed as needing Ritalin. Her mother?s answer was a firm ?No!?

LeFever found the number of children medicated in school for ADHD was 17 percent for white boys, 9 percent for African-American boys, 7 percent for white girls and 3 percent for African-American girls.

Seventeen percent of Virginia?s white boys are abnormal and require what Dr. Block calls ?... mind-altering drugs?? Block points out that Ritalin, is ?almost identical to cocaine -- goes to the same receptor site in the brain, causes the same high when taken in the same manner," Block said. Of course, the doctors who prescribe Ritalin claim it is ?safe when taken under close supervision and does not have long-term effects even if started at a very young age.?

Others see a totally different picture with the same ?results.? What many teachers want to see in their students, and what Ritalin does may be the same thing. However, is what teachers want in the way of behaviour in their class necessarily a good thing for a bright, healthy, child with an inquiring mind? Is the problem in the classroom with the child not paying attention or the problem in the classroom a boring teacher?

For example, if your 10 year old son is considered ADHD in the classroom because he won?t or ?can?t? concentrate, but comes home and plays for hours with his game-boy or Nintendo, the kid obviously CAN concentrate. In fact, most 10 year olds today can beat the socks off their grandparents at Nintendo because they are so GOOD at concentrating on the game.

Invariably when I get into a discussion with ADHD parents they tell me that their child usually ?performs better in school? and ?relates better with family and friends.? When I ask for specifics I find that the child is ?better able? to do boring school work. This is a plus? Parents, some of the homework I?ve seen in recent years makes no sense. A child who can plow through it and end up believing it makes sense is the one with the problem, not the child who is bored with it.

In November 1998, Dr. Peter R. Breggin presented a scientific paper at the Plenary Session of the National Institute of Health Consensus Conference on ADHD and its Treatment. (see: http://www.breggin.com/ritalin.html) He dealt with the common dosage of Ritalin for young children saying, in part: ?There is little doubt that stimulants can, for a time at least, subdue a child's behaviour, making the child easier to manage and especially more willing to perform rote, boring tasks. But we need to look beneath the surface at the underlying effects and mechanisms of action.?

Dr. Breggin?s warnings need to be known to every parent who gives their child Ritalin:

1. Psychostimulants (such as Ritalin) can cause irreversible brain damage and dysfunction. This is known with high degree of scientific probability in regard to amphetamine and methamphetamine, and with a high suspicion in regard to methylphenidate.

2. Psychostimulants cause multiple adverse effects, including a variety of cardiac and central nervous system effects, such as COD, depression, and even mania. The CNS effects often confuse doctors, leading inappropriately to further psychiatric diagnosis and medication rather than to drug withdrawal.

3. Psychostimulants impair growth--including the brain.

4. Psychostimulants work by suppressing spontaneity and sociability, by enforcing obsessive-compulsive preservative behaviour, and by isolating the child from normal outside influences.

A chart that accompanied Breggin?s paper listed adverse drug reactions, some of which were considered ?improvements in behaviour? by parents and teachers! He listed the following adverse drug reactions (ADRs): Social withdrawal and isolation; General dampening of social behaviour; Reduced social interactions, talking, or sociability; Decreased responsiveness to parents and other children; Increased solitary play; Diminished play.

Other adverse affects of Ritalin included: Obsessive-compulsive behaviour, Preservative behaviour; Cognitive preservation; Inflexibility of thinking; Over-focusing or excessive focusing; Compliance, especially in structured environments; Reduced curiosity; Somber; Subdued Apathetic; lethargic: "tired, withdrawn, listless, depressed, dopey, dazed, subdued and inactive" --passive and submissive behaviours.

Why are these adverse affects considered ?improvements? in the child?s (usually a boy?s) behaviour? Why do we want the men of America to be less curious, lethargic, subdued, inactive, passive and submissive? Because we are living in a militantly feminist culture which condemns anything masculine - but especially active, curious, hard to brainwash or manage males, that?s why. Any bright, energetic, boy who challenges today?s politically correct feminist notions is very apt to find himself drugged into submission, especially if he?s living with a feminist single mother.

Often when there?s a father in the house, he will squash the drug approach to behavior which he probably well remembers doing himself at the same age. Someone should study the ritalin use of boys being raised by a single mother. I suspect they?d find a far higher use of mind altering drugs on boys being raised without their fathers.

The very characteristics that working parents and controlling teachers see as ?problems? in growing boys are often the same as the characteristics of success - the ability to move quickly from one idea or problem to another, sociability, curiosity, friendliness - once the boy is grown. It sometimes takes patience and humour to see a sociable, curious, friendly, boy with many different interests and ideas through to adulthood, but the rewards are great.

Without those characteristics I don?t see how my son Guy, who today is an orthopedic surgeon, could ever have had the determination to get through 2 years as a full-time missionary, 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, three years as a Navy doctor, (who served in Desert Storm) and four years as an orthopedic surgery resident. If I?d given him Ritalin, he would have simply remained a framing carpenter. Now, there?s nothing wrong with framing carpenters. He worked his way through college as a carpenter. But, there were other things he was curious about and wanted to learn and some teachers really got upset with that. They could not comprehend why Guy was reading in the encyclopedia about elephants when they had explicitly ordered him to look up owls. They never understood that he looked up owls, and found they ate mice and that got him curious about mice and what they eat so he looked up mice and then remembered that elephants were supposed to be afraid of mice so he was looking up elephants to see if that was really true. Some teachers just wanted him OUT of their class.

Today his ?lack of concentration? on owls would be treated with a mind-altering drug. In fact, in the 1960s the common response was tranquilizers. I had a lot of people suggest I put him on tranquilizers. I have seen Ritalin control those impulses to jump from one subject to another in young boys I taught in Church and it?s so sad. The LaFever study will ?prompt other communities to study their rates of Ritalin use in school-aged children? Xavier Castellanos of the National Institute of Mental Health observed. ?Were the previous estimates of ADHD too low? Is ADHD being overdiagnosed or are doctors now doing a better job of diagnosing it? Certainly no one has found the prevalence of Ritalin use to be this high up until now.?

Before allowing your child to take a mind-altering drug, first ask yourself how many hours a day of active play is he participating in. Does he have the opportunity to run, jump, and play vigorously a couple of hours a day? Would his energy level be a problem if you were living in a log cabin and he was up milking a cow at 5 AM? If the you have to say ?no? to these questions, HE?S not the one with the problem. You and the teacher are the problem. He needs to be given more challenges and more physical activity. It?s quite possible he is a smart kid and is simply totally bored.

I bought a trampoline for Guy and when he couldn?t sit still or was driving his sisters crazy I?d say, ?Guy, go jump on the trampoline for 15 minutes.? He?d jump for longer than that and come in happy. Still, to the day of his graduation he hated high school and would avoid going whenever possible. The school kept trying to get Guy to act ?normal.? He never did. He couldn?t slow down that much. After high school he worked for a year at a quarry breaking up rocks with a jackhammer, saved his money and went to Japan on a mission for his Church, came home and spent the next 15 years either in a classroom or in the army.

Had I given him Ritalin in elementary school to ?slow him down? or make him more content with meaningless paperwork, he would never have made it as an orthopedic surgeon. However, he?s the kind of doctor everyone wants in the emergency room - alert, quick thinking, well prepared and energetic. Without a doubt had he been on Ritalin then, or now, he wouldn?t have those characteristics. Of course, all the ADHD symptoms didn?t go away. To this day the government?s mountains of paperwork bores him just like the English teacher?s boring lessons.

However, today if he wanted to he could hire one of his old English teachers to do all that stuff at close to minimum wage while he saves the lives of people broken and bleeding to death after a car accident.

Concerns About Ritalin® and Concerta®

Some health professionals fear that medications such as Ritalin and Concerta may end up being over-prescribed. Dr. Carl Kline, an expert in the field of learning disabilities from the University of British Columbia, has this to say,

It is my belief that if these drugs were outlawed, children would not be at all deprived of essential medication, but that doctors would be forced to make more accurate diagnoses and seek better means of handling the hyperactive behavior of a certain small percentage of their little patients.

Do these drugs make a difference in the long-term outcome of the minimal brain dysfunction?

Until recently, the most important question concerning Ritalin or amphetamine administration has not been asked. Do these drugs make a difference in the long-term outcome of the minimal brain dysfunction? A comprehensive examination of this subject carried out at the Montreal Children's Hospital discovered a startling fact. At the end of five years, hyperkinetic children who received drugs (either Ritalin or Chloropromazine) did not differ significantly from children who had not received. Although it appeared that hyperactive kids treated with Ritalin were initially more manageable, the degree of improvement and emotional adjustment was essentially identical at the end of five years to that seen in a group of kids who had received no medication at all.

http://www.ritalinalternative.com/

Worries over Ritalin use

There are concerns over the big increase in prescriptions of the drug Ritalin. Glen Scanlon reports.

A BIG rise for the eighth year running in prescriptions of the controversial behaviour control drug Ritalin has appalled children's groups.

Ritalin, or methylphenidate, is a stimulant used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

Children's Commissioner Roger McClay said Ritalin was a wonder drug for many families but he was concerned it was being used as a quick fix.

According to the government's drug-buying agency, Pharmac, in the year ended March 2002 it helped fund 72,186 Ritalin prescriptions 13 000 more than in the year ended June 30, 2001.

Prescriptions for Ritalin have increased massively. In the year ending June 30, 1993, just 2906 prescriptions were written.

Mr McClay said it did not say much for the health of children if the number of prescriptions was rising so rapidly.

"We must have some huge psychological issues to address."

Welltrust executive officer Pauline Gardiner, whose group provides drug education, said the level of Ritalin being prescribed was appalling.

She could not understand why the number of prescriptions kept climbing.

She believed doctors were prescribing the drug to teenagers without properly considering the medical criteria which stated children had to be showing the symptoms of ADHD before they were seven for it to be diagnosed. Children also had to display learning difficulties and many receiving the drug had none.

Medical Association chairman John Adams, who is also a psychiatrist, said he had concerns. about the rising level of Ritalin prescriptions. ADHD had to be carefully diagnosed and the drug carefully prescribed.

There was no doubt about its usefulness in the treatment of ADHD, but when there was a big rise in the number of prescriptions for any drug - Particularly a restricted drug like Ritalin which had an "abusive potential" - questions needed to be asked.

Dr Adams said the drug could affect a person's mental state when used inappropriately, and there were also concerns about the drug's effect on physical and mental development of children.

"I cannot answer it, but it has to be asked whether tile prescribing is responsible and accurate."

But Health Ministry child and youth health chief adviser Pat Tuohy questioned whether Ritalin was being inappropriately prescribed.

Dr Tuohy said the increase in prescriptions could be explained by the new long-release form of Ritalin being available.

It meant children could be given it before they went to school and not have to take more pills at lunch time. However, they would still need a dose at night, so many were using the short and long-release forms.

Dr, Tuohy said ADHD was a real condition and children were getting better outcomes thanks to the drug.

Pharmac medical director Peter Moodie said the rise could be attributed to both forms of the drug being available.

The Dominion Post - 7 August 2002

http://www.nzdf.org.nz/update/messages/1888.htm

well?

[igloo]

Originally posted by marksimons

check.

the.

facts.

exposed.

Ritalin 'Cocaine Properties' May Lead To Later Drug Abuse

well?

When I stated "exposed" and "sucker", I was not referring to ADD and Ritalin you fucking schmuck.

[georgym]

Originally posted by marksimons

heheh, with regards to the streets, get his song The Irony Of It, a funny song about weed and booze:

Hello, Hello. My names Terry and I'm a law abider

There's nothing I like more than getting fired up on beer

And when the weekends here I to exercise my right to get paralytic and fight

Good bloke fairly

But I get well leery when geezers look at me funny

Bounce 'em round like bunnies

I'm likely to cause mischief

Good clean grief you must believe and I ain't no thief.

Law abiding and all, all legal.

And who cares about my liver when it feels good

Wwhat you need is some real manhood.

Rasher Rasher Barney and Kasha putting peoples backs up.

Public disorder, I'll give you public disorder.

I down eight pints and run all over the place

Spit in the face of an officer

See if that bothers you cause I never broke a law in my life

Someday I'm gonna settle down with a wife

Come on lads lets have another fight

Eh hello. My names Tim and I'm a criminal,

In the eyes of society I need to be in jail

For the choice of herbs I inhale.

This ain't no wholesale operation

Just a few eighths and some Playstations my's vocation

I pose a threat to the nation

And down the station the police hold no patients

Let's talk space and time

I like to get deep sometimes and think about Einstein

And Carl Young And old Kung Fu movies I like to see

Pass the hydrator please

Yeah I'm floating on thin air.

Going to Amsterdam in the New Year - top gear there

Cause I taker pride in my hobby

Home made bongs using my engineering degree

Dear Leaders, please legalise weed for these reasons.

Like I was saying to him.

I told him: "Top with me and you won't leave."

So I smacked him in the head and downed another Carling

Bada Bada Bing for the lad's night.

Mad fight, his face's a sad sight.

Vodka and Snake Bite.

Going on like a right geez, he's a twat,

Shouldn't have looked at me like that.

Anyway I'm an upstanding citizen

If a war came along I'd be on the front line with em.

Can't stand crime either them hooligans on heroin.

Drugs and criminals those thugs on the penny coloured will be the downfall of society

I've got all the anger pent up inside of me.

You know I don't see why I should be the criminal

How can something with no recorded fatalities be illegal

And how many deaths are there per year from alcohol

I just completed Gran Tourismo on the hardest setting

We pose no threat on my settee

Ooh the pizza's here will someone let him in please

"We didn't order chicken, Not a problem we'll pick it out

I doubt they meant to mess us about

After all we're all adults not louts."

As I was saying, we're friendly peaceful people

We're not the ones out there causing trouble.

We just sit in this hazy bubble with our quarters

Discussing how beautiful Gail Porter is.

MTV, BBC 2, Channel 4 is on until six in the morning.

Then at six in the morning the sun dawns and it's my bedtime.

Causing trouble, your stinking rabble

Boys saying I'm the lad who's spoiling it

You're on drugs it really bugs me when people try and tell me I'm a thug

Just for getting drunk

I like getting drunk

Cause I'm an upstanding citizen

If a war came along I'd be on the front line with em.

Now Terry you're repeating yourself

But that's okay drunk people can't help that.

A chemical reaction inside your brain causes you to forget what you're saying.

What. I know exactly what I'm saying

I'm perfectly sane

You stinking student lameo

Go get a job and stop robbing us of our taxes.

Err, well actually according to research

Government funding for further education pales in insignificance

When compared to how much they spend on repairing

Leery drunk people at the weekend

In casualty wards all over the land.

Why you cheeky little swine come here

I'm gonna batter you. Come here.

I love the streets

[igloo]

marksimons..

still waiting for you to answer the question put forth to you

[marksimons]

about hitting the streets? or the threat from al quaeda?

look, my view on terroism is that it is a complex problem that cannot be solved easily, we need to take in a holistic approach, looking at trade, poverty, business, military and of course intelligence and law enforcement.

I feel that the us and uk approach to terrism solving, by a 'war on terror' is totally the wrong thing.

would I make a placcard with bin laden saying he's a terroist, why not, but everyone knows this.

but, yeah, he's a terroist, but if I say he's a terroist, i would have to explain the situation in which he became a terroist, i.e. as a terroist for the west.

actually.

I would make a poster along the lines of

Bin Laden - 1980's - Freedom Fighter - Aided by the CIA

Bin Laden - 1990's -> - Terroist - Aided by ???

showing how bin laden worked for america, against communist russia, and then how he now feels that american infidels should leave the kingdom of saudi, which, erm I believe he actually achieved to a large extent as most of the US force is in iraq.

but see, I have issues with the term al quaeda as well, for instance is stuff in checnya really al quaeda or is it chechens fighting for their life.

is iraq really the main front on the war on terror, or is it just a people rebelling against an occupying army.

so yeah, i would have a bin laden terroist poster and campaign against islamic terror, but I'd also have to say

"Rumsfeld - Friends with Saddam"

"Bush family has business with the Bin Laden Family

"Prescott Bush - Did Business with Hitler

George Bush - Did Business with Saddam + Bin Laden

George W. Bush - Does business with dicatorships from Indonesia to Saudia Arabia to Pakistan"

or something...

you get the picture, gotta be fair and balanced and all that.

ooh, and I just got a book that talks about all the nasty foriegn policy stuff as well, so I'll add thatcher, major and blair to the list of terroist types okay?

[ghhhhhost]

SFOR just caught an Algerian man in Bosnia who is linked to Al Qaida....didnt the US support the muslims in Bosnia? oh yeah thats right..they did that in Kosovo too...and then what happens...terrorist cells start to spring up all around the Balkans..and as usual....who do we have to thank for that? Hmmm

[igloo]

Originally posted by marksimons

about hitting the streets? or the threat from al quaeda?

look, my view on terroism is that it is a complex problem that cannot be solved easily, we need to take in a holistic approach, looking at trade, poverty, business, military and of course intelligence and law enforcement.

I feel that the us and uk approach to terrism solving, by a 'war on terror' is totally the wrong thing.

would I make a placcard with bin laden saying he's a terroist, why not, but everyone knows this.

but, yeah, he's a terroist, but if I say he's a terroist, i would have to explain the situation in which he became a terroist, i.e. as a terroist for the west.

actually.

I would make a poster along the lines of

Bin Laden - 1980's - Freedom Fighter - Aided by the CIA

Bin Laden - 1990's -> - Terroist - Aided by ???

showing how bin laden worked for america, against communist russia, and then how he now feels that american infidels should leave the kingdom of saudi, which, erm I believe he actually achieved to a large extent as most of the US force is in iraq.

but see, I have issues with the term al quaeda as well, for instance is stuff in checnya really al quaeda or is it chechens fighting for their life.

is iraq really the main front on the war on terror, or is it just a people rebelling against an occupying army.

so yeah, i would have a bin laden terroist poster and campaign against islamic terror, but I'd also have to say

"Rumsfeld - Friends with Saddam"

"Bush family has business with the Bin Laden Family

"Prescott Bush - Did Business with Hitler

George Bush - Did Business with Saddam + Bin Laden

George W. Bush - Does business with dicatorships from Indonesia to Saudia Arabia to Pakistan"

or something...

you get the picture, gotta be fair and balanced and all that.

ooh, and I just got a book that talks about all the nasty foriegn policy stuff as well, so I'll add thatcher, major and blair to the list of terroist types okay?

Remarkable....once again avoided the main question and instead you provided your predictable, anti-American vomit....absolutely amazing

I do not know what is more mind boggling, your continual resistance to answering a simple question, or you continual denial that you are anti-American?

Is there something seriously wrong with you??

[igloo]

Originally posted by ghhhhhost

SFOR just caught an Algerian man in Bosnia who is linked to Al Qaida....didnt the US support the muslims in Bosnia? oh yeah thats right..they did that in Kosovo too...and then what happens...terrorist cells start to spring up all around the Balkans..and as usual....who do we have to thank for that? Hmmm

I think you should rethink this position, or stance, or whatever it is you are trying to say......seriously misguided on this one

[ghhhhhost]

what r u disputing?

fact..there are mujahadeens in Bosnia and Kosovo

fact..terrorist cells are all over the Balkans

fact..Kosovo Liberation Army was funded by Muslim extremists

fact..these muslim extremists fought alongside the KLA

fact..these extremists still reside in Kosovo

fact..kosovo and bosnia are 2 major stop overs for heroin and prostitute sales in Europe..

fact..the Serbian Army fought people who were undermining the social fabric of Yugoslavia in 1999....killing cops..killing farmers..looting military outposts...we call this terrorism..i duno what u call it..

once again i ask u...what r u disputing?

if u let the Serbs handle their business in Kosovo u wouldnt be bitchin and moanin about Europe being a hotbed of terrorist activity