American in Iraq Beheaded by Militants

[obby]

Hope this video opens up somes eyes.

http://www.glennbeck.com/news/05122004-1.shtml

U.S. officials think that terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi (search) may have either authorized the execution or actually performed the act himself.

The video showed five men wearing headscarves and black ski masks, standing over a bound man in an orange jumpsuit — similar to a prisoner's uniform — who identified himself as Nick Berg (search), a U.S. contractor whose body was found on a highway overpass in Baghdad on Saturday.

"My name is Nick Berg, my father's name is Michael, my mother's name is Susan," the man said on the video. "I have a brother and sister, David and Sarah. I live in ... Philadelphia."

After reading a statement, the men were seen pulling the man to his side and putting a large knife to his neck. A scream sounded as the men cut his head off, shouting "Allahu Akbar!" — "God is great." They then held the head out before the camera.

Berg's family said Tuesday they knew their son had been decapitated, but didn't know the details of the killing. When told of the video by an Associated Press reporter, Berg's father, Michael, and his two siblings hugged and cried.

"I knew he was decapitated before. That manner is preferable to a long and torturous death. But I didn't want it to become public," Michael Berg said.

----------------------------------------------------------

WE CAN THANK WHOEVER CHOSE TO LEAK THESE PICS OF U.S. SOLDIERS ABUSING IRAQI PRISONERS. WE KNOW CBS WAS ASKED BY THE GOV'T TO NOT SHOW THE PICS LEAKED TO THEM DUE TO THEM BEING PART OF AN ON-GOING MILITARY INVESTIGATION. CBS HELD THE STORY FOR 1 WEEK BEFORE SHOWING THE PICS ON 60 MINUTES II. NOW LOOK @ WHAT'S HAPPENED,,,

SAD PART IS,,IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE..............

STILL FEEL LIKE EXPLOITING THOSE MILITARY PICS FOR POLITICAL SPORT???????

PATHETIC! LIBERAL (ANTI-BUSH/ANTI-WAR) MEDIA CAN THANK THEMSELVES FOR GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND IN THEIR QUEST TO SMEAR THIS ADMIN.........

[o0djfx0o]

Whether the pics got leaked or not, these things happened and people would have found out about them either way...sooner or later. The retaliations I think will take place either way as it seems like terrorists just love having some sort of justification for terror.

I think the outcome was inevitable...and unfortunate

[lyrik]

WE CAN THANK WHOEVER CHOSE TO LEAK THESE PICS OF U.S. SOLDIERS ABUSING IRAQI PRISONERS. WE KNOW CBS WAS ASKED BY THE GOV'T TO NOT SHOW THE PICS LEAKED TO THEM DUE TO THEM BEING PART OF AN ON-GOING MILITARY INVESTIGATION. CBS HELD THE STORY FOR 1 WEEK BEFORE SHOWING THE PICS ON 60 MINUTES II. NOW LOOK @ WHAT'S HAPPENED,,,

SAD PART IS,,IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE..............

STILL FEEL LIKE EXPLOITING THOSE MILITARY PICS FOR POLITICAL SPORT???????

PATHETIC! LIBERAL (ANTI-BUSH/ANTI-WAR) MEDIA CAN THANK THEMSELVES FOR GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND IN THEIR QUEST TO SMEAR THIS ADMIN.........

Couldn't agree more.

[sobeton]

Whether the pics got leaked or not, these things happened and people would have found out about them either way...sooner or later. The retaliations I think will take place either way as it seems like terrorists just love having some sort of justification for terror.

I think the outcome was inevitable...and unfortunate

I concur!

[icicle]

"WE CAN THANK WHOEVER CHOSE TO LEAK THESE PICS OF U.S. SOLDIERS ABUSING IRAQI PRISONERS. WE KNOW CBS WAS ASKED BY THE GOV'T TO NOT SHOW THE PICS LEAKED TO THEM DUE TO THEM BEING PART OF AN ON-GOING MILITARY INVESTIGATION. CBS HELD THE STORY FOR 1 WEEK BEFORE SHOWING THE PICS ON 60 MINUTES II. NOW LOOK @ WHAT'S HAPPENED,,,

SAD PART IS,,IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE..............

STILL FEEL LIKE EXPLOITING THOSE MILITARY PICS FOR POLITICAL SPORT???????

PATHETIC! LIBERAL (ANTI-BUSH/ANTI-WAR) MEDIA CAN THANK THEMSELVES FOR GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND IN THEIR QUEST TO SMEAR THIS ADMIN........."

Perhaps you should be "thanking" the MPs that took the pictures. Or maybe you should just "thank" them for committing such brutal acts of decency. But blaming the press? Their job is to report the truth, not hide it. So before you go lambasting the "liberal" media, maybe you should question why the military is committing these acts? Surely torture and ridicule can't help further the cause of democracy...

[mrmatas2277]

Perhaps you should be "thanking" the MPs that took the pictures.

exactly...i dont blame anyone but those MPs....

[lyrik]

So what you are saying is given the choice of releasing the pictures or not....knowing full well that there will be repercussions and most likely more murder and death (Especially Americans)....you would do it. The media had a choice in this matter and they choose to disregard the lives of Americans in the middle east in search of the truth. I say their search for truth is BULLSHIT. They couldn't care one bit about the truth (obviously....as they have even openly admitted that they agreed to hold the pictures while the govt investigated this issue, how long did that last)...its media sensationalism and it all comes down to who can put on the best show for the viewing audience. The better and more horrific the story, the more viewers... and it just so happens the more money they make. I don't excuse what those soldiers did, but the media took a hostile situation and turned it into a circus for the whole world to see....thats not respectable journalism in search of the truth....its seedy tactics used to gain the almighty dollar.

"Next on the big show" (Give me a fucking break)

[mrmatas2277]

So what you are saying is given the choice of releasing the pictures or not....knowing full well that there will be repercussions and most likely more murder and death (Especially Americans)....you would do it. The media had a choice in this matter and they choose to disregard the lives of Americans in the middle east in search of the truth. I say their search for truth is BULLSHIT. They couldn't care one bit about the truth (obviously....as they have even openly admitted that they agreed to hold the pictures while the govt investigated this issue, how long did that last)...its media sensationalism and it all comes down to who can put on the best show for the viewing audience. The better and more horrific the story, the more viewers... and it just so happens the more money they make. I don't excuse what those soldiers did, but the media took a hostile situation and turned it into a circus for the whole world to see....thats not respectable journalism in search of the truth....its seedy tactics used to gain the almighty dollar.

"Next on the big show" (Give me a fucking break)

my father (Vietnam vet) said he didnt care what happens to POWs (those that surrendered in Vietnam were shot in the back of the head..they very rarely took prisoners)...b/c they the enemy, but what bothers my father is...these idiots taking pictures of this...i mean, what were they going for here? why "document" this event in such a matter? i would love to measure the piece of shit between both their ears that they (the MPs) call a brain..b/c that is a HUGE PIECE OF SHIT...if there ARENT any pictures, then there are just allegations...but now...with these pictures out there, it just affirms everything...and we look like assholes to the world...by no stretch of the imagination am i condoning what these OTHER animals did this American...but he (Mike Berg) might be alive today, if those damn MPs would have been doing their jobs and not trying to produce some sick staged men on men porno....

[mrjoebudious]

I feel this shows that some our troops have reached a melting point. Those soldiers out there are understaffed. Its like 700 guards for 15,000 prisoners (or there abouts?)

These 7 getting court martialed (which is b.s. no high ranks) were in an artillery battalion. There were not m.p.s. m.p.'s take their cop shit serious. I was a medic, I would not have been as effective as an m.p.

Someone higher in the command descided that they were sufficient for the job. Ruining the life of some private first class will do nothing for justice here. There needs to be more resonsibility from high command.

This beheading has to do with a specific demand for the release of a few prisoners. Such a shame. Guy went there as a low level cable guy. Bummer.

As far as the media. In regards to Iraq, the media is not liberal. There is so much information that I read from abroad that never makes cnn, abc, msnbc or even npr. In regards to the world, our media is central right in regards to iraq. This isn't the media's doing. If it can put down to one person. This is George Bush's doing. I hope this is not the beginning of things worst to come.

[shaka610]

reguardless of who's to blame... this whole thing is a fuckin mess...and its sad the way both sides are acting.. and for what? Lower gas prices? HMMM.... i seems like this was the most poorly planned US stategic move since .. well u know....Retaliation unfortunately is not over and will come hard IMO.. just hope not here.

[digitalphoenix]

Oh shyt.

Open the path for Shroomy...he's gonna go OFF!!!!!

[marcodavalos]

----------------------------------------------------------

WE CAN THANK WHOEVER CHOSE TO LEAK THESE PICS OF U.S. SOLDIERS ABUSING IRAQI PRISONERS. WE KNOW CBS WAS ASKED BY THE GOV'T TO NOT SHOW THE PICS LEAKED TO THEM DUE TO THEM BEING PART OF AN ON-GOING MILITARY INVESTIGATION. CBS HELD THE STORY FOR 1 WEEK BEFORE SHOWING THE PICS ON 60 MINUTES II. NOW LOOK @ WHAT'S HAPPENED,,,

SAD PART IS,,IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE..............

STILL FEEL LIKE EXPLOITING THOSE MILITARY PICS FOR POLITICAL SPORT???????

PATHETIC! LIBERAL (ANTI-BUSH/ANTI-WAR) MEDIA CAN THANK THEMSELVES FOR GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND IN THEIR QUEST TO SMEAR THIS ADMIN.........

Obby ... I equal your anger with this incident. It is primitive and unexplainable. But disagree with the context of your conclusion.

First of ... this is a war to make America safer. Those Arab extremists have one enemy, the US. Had it been the world against them, the US wouldn't be the only target. There would have been at least a bigger frame to this picture, one that would have included neighboring Arab nations in the coalition, hence reducing the anger of many Arabs who are now fighting against us. My conclusion, we had the power to defeat, never in doubt, but increased the number of enemies and the hatred. This was evident since b4 the war. Economist call this an opportunity cost.

2nd ... the Geneva Convention was enacted to protect POW ... from all nations. We fought the Iraqui military over a year ago ... and they had POW that were rescued. Were they mistreated/killed? Not that I recall. It appears to not be the modum operandi of the Iraqui military controlled by Saddam based on the treatment to our men and women.

3rd ... We either purposedly overlooked the Geneva Convention in order to squeeze info ... or we unilaterally categorized Iraqui military as terrorists, and therefore not apply the GC to them. Both cases would be wrong morally, historically and will increase hatred towards us in the region and elsewhere, as we are attacking an ethnic group not only the citizens of a country.

4th ... the media is the 4th power ... created by our own way of life. The media has a specific purpose ... find the responsible and punish him, just as it did during Watergate ... in this case its role is to make sure, if we decide to go to war again, provisions for this not to happen are definetely in place. It is dignity for our own men and women who fall POW, what the media is fighting for.

You can't blame the killing of Mr. Berg to the pictures put out by CBS anymore than you should blame the errors committed in Abu Ghraib. The prison of terror itself.

The first Gulf War was the CNN war ... this one is the internet war. How come soldiers have cameras? What a lack of preparation for a war in the internet ages.

Finally, 5th ... we indirectly infested Iraq with Al-Qaeda and Jihad fighters. It will be a very unstable Iraq for many years to come. And the day we stop patrolling Iraq, whenever it is, we will probably see those same people taking their fight elsewhere ... or perhaps just recruiting younger ones to do it. Are we safer?

If you ask me today ... I feel the same way as 18 months ago ... it was the wrong decision, timewise. It is all a hypothesis now ... but is all this mess worth the wait? ...

PS: Pics were leaked by one of the soldiers being Court Martialed. He will be the first one taken to trial ... and will open a can of worms bigger than 6 military personnel.

[marcodavalos]

my father (Vietnam vet) said he didnt care what happens to POWs (those that surrendered in Vietnam were shot in the back of the head..they very rarely took prisoners)...b/c they the enemy, but what bothers my father is...these idiots taking pictures of this...i mean, what were they going for here? why "document" this event in such a matter? i would love to measure the piece of shit between both their ears that they (the MPs) call a brain..b/c that is a HUGE PIECE OF SHIT...if there ARENT any pictures, then there are just allegations...but now...with these pictures out there, it just affirms everything...and we look like assholes to the world...by no stretch of the imagination am i condoning what these OTHER animals did this American...but he (Mike Berg) might be alive today, if those damn MPs would have been doing their jobs and not trying to produce some sick staged men on men porno....

Jesse ... put Vietnam aside. Those days should never be repeated. There is no super power confronting us no more. The world could had been united against Saddam ...

[mrmatas2277]

2nd ... the Geneva Convention was enacted to protect POW ... from all nations. We fought the Iraqui military over a year ago ... and they had POW that were rescued. Were they mistreated/killed? Not that I recall. It appears to not be the modum operandi of the Iraqui military controlled by Saddam based on the treatment to our men and women

Jessica Lynch?? medical tests showed that she was raped:

Memo: Iraq Abuse Was 'Vigilante Justice'

By JIM KRANE, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - A female soldier in the Army's 320th Military Police Battalion took "vigilante justice" on Iraqi prisoners who she believed had raped Army Pfc. Jessica Lynch, according to a letter from the battalion's commander obtained by The Associated Press.

Lt. Col. Jerry L. Phillabaum, commander of 320th Military Police Battalion, leveled the allegation in a rebuttal to charges against his leadership of the 320th, some of whose soldiers were also charged with abusing prisoners last fall at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison.

Phillabaum made the allegation in an April 12 memo to Lt. Gen. Thomas Metz, deputy commander of coalition forces in Iraq (news - web sites). He provided a copy to The Associated Press.

In the document, Phillabaum said Master Sgt. Lisa Girman, 35, and three other MPs from the same battalion abused the prisoners at Camp Bucca in southern Iraq on May 12, 2003.

"When Master Sgt. Lisa Girman returned to Camp Bucca shortly before midnight, she took 'vigilante justice' against EPW (enemy prisoners of war) that she believed had raped Pfc. Jessica Lynch," he said. "Four out of the 10 320th MP Battalion soldiers abused some of the EPWs; a clear indication that the abuse was the responsibility of those individuals acting alone and was not condoned by myself or any leader at Camp Bucca."

Lynch was captured and injured in the early days of the Iraq invasion. She was later rescued by U.S. troops. According to medical records cited in her biography, she was also sodomized, apparently during a three-hour gap that she cannot recall.

The four Army reservists from the 320th Military Police Battalion are accused of punching and kicking several Iraqis, breaking one man's nose, while escorting prisoners to a POW processing center.

Military officials have declined to name the reservists, but relatives identified them as Staff Sgt. Scott McKenzie, 37; Sgt. Shawna Edmondson, 24; and Spc. Tim Canjar, 21. All are from Pennsylvania.

All four denied they did anything wrong and said the force they used was necessary to subdue unruly prisoners.

Phillabaum, who was reprimanded in connection with the prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib prison, mentioned the previous abuse at Camp Bucca in southern Iraq in a rebuttal to charges leveled against him in an April report of an Army investigation.

Phillabaum said Girman and the other soldiers who allegedly beat prisoners at Camp Bucca had no authorization for heavy-handed tactics from their commanders.

[o0djfx0o]

What comes to mind is what's happened in Israel...

You'll hear a report of a car bomb that goes off in retaliation for a suicide bomber that killed 12 people at a bus stop that was in retaliation for the assination of a ranking officer in government that was a response to the desacration of some dude's doorstep by a dog that was retaliating to the lack of grass in the streets....hehehe

Though I don't think the US generally will get into the habit of things like that...

I am reminded of a speech by Martn Luther King - Peace on Earth

He talked about the idea of 'the end justifies the means' and how it's a flawed premise...he suggests that in order to achieve a particular end, it must be reached by a similar set of means...that the means represent the seed and the end represents the tree...if you wish to seek a peaceful end, it must be reached by peaceful means.

Simple ideas...impossible goals? Who knows. I do know that as long as you have situations like this where someone's husband, wife, mother, father, son, daughter, aunt, uncle, friend etc are being abused and/or murdered, for whatever reason...those left behind will foreever be left with that in their minds...that they were taken from them.

I further think of ancient times when ruler might not only kill someone but anyone related to him/her as a 'means' to prevent revenge.

It is an endless viscious circle that will never turn for the better unless something totally unique were to occur...a solution where noone is hurt and everyone is pleased with the outcome...at the expense of noone. Could it ever happen...if it did...we might see a new world...one that would unify the people on this planet, one where everyone everywhere would have an awareness of each other and respect the fact we are stuck here together for a time and must make the best of it.

bleah...just my idealistic thoughts.

FX

[sobeton]

The media doesn't have to disgrace America in the Middle East. the retarded military personnel that decided to commit acts against military law, brought the disgrace to us... we need to be angry with them, and not the press for reporting the news. the news industry survives on sensationalism; so let’s stop acting as though this is some starling revelation. obviously, there is quite a bit of information we don't know. So what will we do when the information comes forward? start blaming someone else?? we have a situation to deal with. we need to deal with it and move forward.

[mrmatas2277]

Jesse ... put Vietnam aside. Those days should never be repeated.

war is war...years change...decades change...but the treatment remains the same...u think this is the first time this happens?? truth be told, it happens a lot...this is the FIRST time that u and i actually see what we have heard from veterans of war (whether they be Vietnam, Korean or Gulf War I)...the stories are ALL the same...but now we have pictures to the stories...reality is a bitter pill to swallow...

[marcodavalos]

Jessica Lynch?? medical tests showed that she was raped:

Memo: Iraq Abuse Was 'Vigilante Justice'

By JIM KRANE, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - A female soldier in the Army's 320th Military Police Battalion took "vigilante justice" on Iraqi prisoners who she believed had raped Army Pfc. Jessica Lynch, according to a letter from the battalion's commander obtained by The Associated Press.

Lt. Col. Jerry L. Phillabaum, commander of 320th Military Police Battalion, leveled the allegation in a rebuttal to charges against his leadership of the 320th, some of whose soldiers were also charged with abusing prisoners last fall at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison.

Phillabaum made the allegation in an April 12 memo to Lt. Gen. Thomas Metz, deputy commander of coalition forces in Iraq (news - web sites). He provided a copy to The Associated Press.

In the document, Phillabaum said Master Sgt. Lisa Girman, 35, and three other MPs from the same battalion abused the prisoners at Camp Bucca in southern Iraq on May 12, 2003.

"When Master Sgt. Lisa Girman returned to Camp Bucca shortly before midnight, she took 'vigilante justice' against EPW (enemy prisoners of war) that she believed had raped Pfc. Jessica Lynch," he said. "Four out of the 10 320th MP Battalion soldiers abused some of the EPWs; a clear indication that the abuse was the responsibility of those individuals acting alone and was not condoned by myself or any leader at Camp Bucca."

Lynch was captured and injured in the early days of the Iraq invasion. She was later rescued by U.S. troops. According to medical records cited in her biography, she was also sodomized, apparently during a three-hour gap that she cannot recall.

The four Army reservists from the 320th Military Police Battalion are accused of punching and kicking several Iraqis, breaking one man's nose, while escorting prisoners to a POW processing center.

Military officials have declined to name the reservists, but relatives identified them as Staff Sgt. Scott McKenzie, 37; Sgt. Shawna Edmondson, 24; and Spc. Tim Canjar, 21. All are from Pennsylvania.

All four denied they did anything wrong and said the force they used was necessary to subdue unruly prisoners.

Phillabaum, who was reprimanded in connection with the prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib prison, mentioned the previous abuse at Camp Bucca in southern Iraq in a rebuttal to charges leveled against him in an April report of an Army investigation.

Phillabaum said Girman and the other soldiers who allegedly beat prisoners at Camp Bucca had no authorization for heavy-handed tactics from their commanders.

Jesse, an incident (as you quoted) and a systematic procedure (now under investigation and under the media's scrutiny) are as different as the US way of life is from the way of life in the Middle East.

[obby]

[mrmatas2277]

DP

[shroomy]

Oh shyt.

Open the path for Shroomy...he's gonna go OFF!!!!!

lol... well ok.. here are my 2 cents.

who is to blame for killing Nick Berg?

easy, the people who killed him. Come on, a rational person doesn't wake up one day and just decide that they are going to decapitate a contractor on video tape. People like that would have killed him anyways. He was taken hostage before the abuse came out too, what did they plan to do with him? give him a birthday party?

who is to blame for abusing the prisoners.

easy the people who did it, condoned it, or turned a blind eye to it. Is the media irresponsible, sensationalistic, and generally without morals? mostly yes, but that is beside the point.

Lets keep shit in perspecitve. People who will kill innocents in spain, the US, Iraq etc... just because they dissagree, are people that we should be fighting.

[lyrik]

Obby ... I equal your anger with this incident. It is primitive and unexplainable. But disagree with the context of your conclusion.

First of ... this is a war to make America safer. Those Arab extremists have one enemy, the US. Had it been the world against them, the US wouldn't be the only target. There would have been at least a bigger frame to this picture, one that would have included neighboring Arab nations in the coalition, hence reducing the anger of many Arabs who are now fighting against us. My conclusion, we had the power to defeat, never in doubt, but increased the number of enemies and the hatred. This was evident since b4 the war. Economist call this an opportunity cost.

2nd ... the Geneva Convention was enacted to protect POW ... from all nations. We fought the Iraqui military over a year ago ... and they had POW that were rescued. Were they mistreated/killed? Not that I recall. It appears to not be the modum operandi of the Iraqui military controlled by Saddam based on the treatment to our men and women.

3rd ... We either purposedly overlooked the Geneva Convention in order to squeeze info ... or we unilaterally categorized Iraqui military as terrorists, and therefore not apply the GC to them. Both cases would be wrong morally, historically and will increase hatred towards us in the region and elsewhere, as we are attacking an ethnic group not only the citizens of a country.

4th ... the media is the 4th power ... created by our own way of life. The media has a specific purpose ... find the responsible and punish him, just as it did during Watergate ... in this case its role is to make sure, if we decide to go to war again, provisions for this not to happen are definetely in place. It is dignity for our own men and women who fall POW, what the media is fighting for.

You can't blame the killing of Mr. Berg to the pictures put out by CBS anymore than you should blame the errors committed in Abu Ghraib. The prison of terror itself.

The first Gulf War was the CNN war ... this one is the internet war. How come soldiers have cameras? What a lack of preparation for a war in the internet ages.

Finally, 5th ... we indirectly infested Iraq with Al-Qaeda and Jihad fighters. It will be a very unstable Iraq for many years to come. And the day we stop patrolling Iraq, whenever it is, we will probably see those same people taking their fight elsewhere ... or perhaps just recruiting younger ones to do it. Are we safer?

If you ask me today ... I feel the same way as 18 months ago ... it was the wrong decision, timewise. It is all a hypothesis now ... but is all this mess worth the wait? ...

PS: Pics were leaked by one of the soldiers being Court Martialed. He will be the first one taken to trial ... and will open a can of worms bigger than 6 military personnel.

I agree with a lot of what you said. In regards to the feeling of being safe now compared to 18 months ago...of course not, but prior to 911 there wasn't much of sentiment among the American public in regards to national safety because we didn't really have stop and think about it....nothing like that has ever happened on American soil. When those planes crashed into those 2 buildings it confirmed the worst of repressed fears dating back to the cold war and that was we are vulnerable and not as safe as may have thought. I do think we have let the mistakes of the last 30 years of different political administrations go on for too long without doing anything substantial to make things right. The thing that people don't get is yes we are in a war and in times of war patriotism should always come to the minf of the residents, especially Americans. I think we have all said it numerous times....we are not trying to excuse the actions of those soldiers and yes they and whoever else responsible should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. What we are trying to say is just like the soldiers had a moral obligation to themselves, their country and even to their prisoners; we all should have the same moral obligations to our country in some capacity. Could there have been other avenues the media choose to take in reporting their "search for the truth"....completely....are they at fault for causing more deaths....I guess that can't really be measured, but if you think that what those people seen on TV didn't add fuel to the fire I would have to disagree. Opportunity cost is an ecomonic valuation on the cost of one action or another...or the valuation on taking no action....everything has an opportunity cost...thats why there is the saying nothing in this world is free. What was the cost of the media taking the opportunity to display their stories in the manner they did? This is not the search for righteous truth...this is the "you see I told you so" search to discredit the current administration because it causes the on looker syndrome...the more conflict the more viewers they have.

[mrmatas2277]

DP

[marcodavalos]

war is war...years change...decades change...but the treatment remains the same...u think this is the first time this happens?? truth be told, it happens a lot...this is the FIRST time that u and i actually see what we have heard from veterans of war (whether they be Vietnam, Korean or Gulf War I)...the stories are ALL the same...but now we have pictures to the stories...reality is a bitter pill to swallow...

Someone was questioning ... if we are trying to lead a region with democracy .. and we are its bigger ambassadors ... are we prepared to go to war in the internet ages?

With the reasoning of war is war ... and us being the ones throwing the first stone for the first time ... and us believing we are right .. and is having the military power to out do ... are we a military society now? What happened to democracy .. its institutions .. and its moral? ... the concept we are exporting to the region?

Note: I'm confronting your position, not the governments. ^^^^

Don't forget something important ... the pics only prove wrong doing. Its damage is the impression in the Ara world. But ... as Joe mentioned above, the world has its own journalists covering ... Arab media ... etc. .. Things we don't see in US TV. We have to be prepared for war ... as a leader in the world. We have the moral responsability. We are capable of doing so.

Lets not lose perspective.

[mrmatas2277]

as a leader in the world. We have the moral responsability. We are capable of doing so.

agreed...but this type of treatment happens all the time...its not right, but it happens...i dont think ANY POWs should be mistreated, our military is better than that...they are trained to fight, not pile up naked Iraqis for photo-ops...heads should roll from the top to the bottom...Sen. McCain said that this type of treatment is pointless, b/c in the end the POW just tells u what u want to hear anyways...