Soldiers in Iraq get to see F9/11. Anti Bush sentiment grows among soldiers

[mindfaqd]

Michael Moore makes MOVIES !!!! ..he doesn't take Nations to war , he doesn't invade sovereign nations upon false accusations ( WMD & al-qaeda ) .

Good lord !!! ....how right handed can you get ??!?! , that you actually compare one's lies to the other .

Congrats ..your monthly edition of is in the mail .

1st of all, I love the sheep mag. U have me laughing at my desk. thanx.

2nd of all, I didn't make the comparison, u did.

3rd.........The threads topic is the movie being shown in Iraq. I was just staying w/ the topic.

4th of all, Sadam had it coming. Its a war on terror, in all its forms, not just Al Queda.

5th of all, I am an Independant. I don't agree w/ alot of Bush's ideas. I just feel that we are better off w/ him as Pres. U may not agree with where he stands, but (unlike Kerry) u at least know where he stands.

I don't know abt u but I like waffles for breakfast not wafflers for President !

[sobeton]

As for the Clinton episode, I dont care who he is throwing it in. That was not the issue. He lied under oath and that is a huge issue.

so lying and/or deceiving the american public and lawmakers, and acting on sketchy intelligence which leads to civil unrest (Iraq) and the death of US troops(1,000 and growing) is not a "huge issue"

[mursa]

U may not agree with where he stands, but (unlike Kerry) u at least know where he stands.

I don't know abt u but I like waffles for breakfast not wafflers for President !

1- better open minded and know when one is wrong and change , then being Stubborn (or having "CONVICTION" as the reps say) and continue to persue a failed foreign policy .

2- If kerry is a waffer (which he probably is ) then Bush is a bag of oreo's without the cream in the middle (dude is dumb ! ) .

[mindfaqd]

1- better open minded and know when one is wrong and change , then being Stubborn (or having "CONVICTION" as the reps say) and continue to persue a failed foreign policy .

2- If kerry is a waffer (which he probably is ) then Bush is a bag of oreo's without the cream in the middle (dude is dumb ! ) .

I think ur confusing open mindedness with just not having a solid stance. The guy has a new "focus" w/ ea new group of people he stands in front of.

[mursa]

I think ur confusing open mindedness with just not having a solid stance. The guy has a new "focus" w/ ea new group of people he stands in front of.

Having a Solid stance , in this dynamically changing world is a dangerous thing...things change way too quick and one needs to adapt to circumstances .

I seriously doubt that Kerry would be confused/wavering when he is the president of the Free world , and has literally any resource he needs .

..

...therefore the reps lingo of kerry being a coward/confused leader doesn't have any affect on me . .

..

...but it just goes to show how Bush is running his campaing on INSTALLING FEAR and Hypothetical doubts on the electorate .

[funwithtreason]

Yeah, the soldiers need a good laugh. Why not watch some communist propaganda? Moore is a disgrace. He is a typical "we are smarter than everyone" liberal who believes Americans are dumb enough to believe the lies in his film.

Your mom said. mmmmmmmmmph, mmmmmmph mmmmmmmmmmmph.. (sorry, her mouth is full)... She says "it's time to rotate the tires on the house again".

[kramadas]

1-Bad intel from Russia, Great Britain and our own network led to the WMD proclamation. Im not giving him a pass. I think its a big deal that there were no WMD. Having said that I would have gone in to remove the leadership anyway

2-Iraq was harboring and continues to be inhabited by terrorists. In fact, one of them just beheaded a man who lives not far from Atlanta(my home).

1. From what came out of the CIA sources, there was a lot of pressure from the administration to find something, anything, to point at the fact that Iraq had WMD's. Additionally, Britain went as far as to falsify certain documents, or present documents from 1990! The administration HAS to be responsible for the actions it takes (ie, ensure intel is correct).

2. Terrorism had increased a thousand times since the US took over Iraq...there is way more terrorism in Iraq now then ever. So, when it comes to keeping terrorism under control, it seems Saddam did a MUCH better job.

The training camps they did find in the north was territory under the control of the Kurds...Saddam was explicitly forbidden to go into those areas, so blaming that on him is absurd.

[mursa]

1. From what came out of the CIA sources, there was a lot of pressure from the administration to find something, anything, to point at the fact that Iraq had WMD's. Additionally, Britain went as far as to falsify certain documents, or present documents from 1990! The administration HAS to be responsible for the actions it takes (ie, ensure intel is correct).

2. Terrorism had increased a thousand times since the US took over Iraq...there is way more terrorism in Iraq now then ever. So, when it comes to keeping terrorism under control, it seems Saddam did a MUCH better job.

The training camps they did find in the north was territory under the control of the Kurds...Saddam was explicitly forbidden to go into those areas, so blaming that on him is absurd.

Bullseye ! ...whooling one sheep at a time .

[vicman]

what i find amusing is that bush readily accepted the CIA's assertion that there were WMD's inside Iraq (regardless of the shaky intelligence behind it) and now that that CIA report on Iraq was leaked last week he dismisses it without thinking twice.

[mursa]

what i find amusing is that bush readily accepted the CIA's assertion that there were WMD's inside Iraq (regardless of the shaky intelligence behind it) and now that that CIA report on Iraq was leaked last week he dismisses it without thinking twice.

here's one even better .............. Wouldn't you want revenge on someone who tried to assasinate your father ? (as did saddam to bush senior)

Remember Bush .... " after all this is the man who tried to kill my DADDY " ( getting chocked up and a lil teary eyed ) ...

..It's all quite logical if one isn't hypnotized by the patriotic/paranoia lingo that surrounds us .

[tres-b]

Your mom said. mmmmmmmmmph, mmmmmmph mmmmmmmmmmmph.. (sorry, her mouth is full)... She says "it's time to rotate the tires on the house again".

Just so you know, my parents live on an acre and a half of land on the Sebastian River in Florida. They are doing fine financially and I dont think a trailer is in my dad's retirement plan.

It must be great to feel like such a big man on the key board. Why dont you try to add to the discussion rather than post crap like this?

Example--I may not agree w/ Raver Mania, but at least he spends time making/defending a point and doesnt waste time on family comments.

[italia23]

2. Terrorism had increased a thousand times since the US took over Iraq...there is way more terrorism in Iraq now then ever.

These terrorists in Iraq are mujahideen, there to "defend the Islamic faith against the Infidels". Whenever there is fire in the Middle East, these are the people who run over and pour gasoline on it. It's been like that for years. (i.e., the Afghan-Soviet war) As for the administration taking them into account prior to the operation? Well, I don't know.

So, when it comes to keeping terrorism under control, it seems Saddam did a MUCH better job. The training camps they did find in the north was territory under the control of the Kurds...Saddam was explicitly forbidden to go into those areas, so blaming that on him is absurd

Are you in some way implying that Saddam had a hostile relationship with terrorists in Iraq? If that's the case, then you are wrong. It's a proven fact that Iraq harbored jihadists from Hamas, Hezbollah, and the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade.

[bigpoppanils]

Iraq was not part of the "war on terror" when we invaded.....but it most certainly is now

[mursa]

These terrorists in Iraq are mujahideen, there to "defend the Islamic faith against the Infidels". .

... and don't forget that most of the insurgents are ACTUALLY IRAQUI 's who want the US out of their country ....foreingers are just a portion of the insurgents .

[italia23]

... and don't forget that most of the insurgents are ACTUALLY IRAQUI 's who want the US out of their country ....foreingers are just a portion of the insurgents .

No, aside from the Mahdi Army of Muqtada al-Sadr, I think they are mostly foreign jihadists. The majority of which were brought in at the behest of Abu Masab Zarqawi. At least that is the way I came to understand it.

This is a Washington Post article actually taken from antiwar.com.

http://www.myantiwar.org/view/22300.html

Foes of U.S. in Iraq Criticize Insurgents

Clerics and Militiamen Decry Violence

By Edward Cody

Washington Post Foreign Service

Saturday, June 26, 2004; Page A01

BAGHDAD, June 25 -- Key Iraqi opponents of the U.S. occupation expressed unease Friday over the wave of insurgent attacks that killed more than 100 Iraqis a day earlier, and rejected efforts by foreign guerrillas to take the lead in the insurgency and mate it with the international jihad advocated by Osama bin Laden...

"Which religion allows anyone to kill more than 100 Iraqis, destroy 100 families and destroy 100 houses?" raged Samarrae in his sermon. "Who says so? Who are those people who do this? Where did they come from? . . . It is a conspiracy to defame the reputation of the Iraqi resistance by wearing its dress and using its name falsely. These people hurt the Iraqis and Iraq, giving the occupier an excuse to stay longer."...

Samarrae said he had learned that some Iraqi insurgent leaders have begun to clash with Zarqawi loyalists, insisting the jihadists do not represent the "right and true resistance." He warned against those who he said want to tear the country apart in the name of Islam and suggested they were foreigners who should not be part of Iraq's conflict...

[italia23]

Iraq was not part of the "war on terror" when we invaded.....

That's your opinion.

[igloo]

1. From what came out of the CIA sources, there was a lot of pressure from the administration to find something, anything, to point at the fact that Iraq had WMD's. Additionally, Britain went as far as to falsify certain documents, or present documents from 1990! The administration HAS to be responsible for the actions it takes (ie, ensure intel is correct).

2. Terrorism had increased a thousand times since the US took over Iraq...there is way more terrorism in Iraq now then ever. So, when it comes to keeping terrorism under control, it seems Saddam did a MUCH better job.

The training camps they did find in the north was territory under the control of the Kurds...Saddam was explicitly forbidden to go into those areas, so blaming that on him is absurd.

What up Raver...

On point #1, that is not necessarily true...even the 9/11 commission stated that there was NO evidence that any undo pressure was placed on CIA sources to falsely point to Iraqi WMD. That is absolutely false to say anyone was pressured--despite what the occasional anonymous "CIA" source may claim in a Wash Post or NY Times article--I think we all know how those "leaks" work for both sides.

The fact is Tenet said it was a "slam dunk". The fact is that the European Intelligence Services, including France and Germany, all believed he had WMD. The fact is the Russian intelligence services believed he had WMD. And the fact is Arab intelligence services thought he had WMD, with Jordan and Egypt proving intel on the eve of the war of the probability of WMD attack.

And of course, the U.N thought he had WMD--even the left's favorite useful idiot Hans Blix believed he had WMD. And let's not forget that 1441 stated that Saddam "DISARM".....There is actually a good chance the U.N. was talking about WMD's there, not AK47s.....

And let's not forget that it was incumbent upon the Iraqi regime....not U.N weapons inspectors.....to prove Iraq did not have WMD...which they failed to do......this is fact, not newspaper headline spin or anti-Bush rhetoric.....if he had no WMD, and destroyed the KNOWN stockpiles he had since inspectors were kicked out in 1998, Iraq shoud have PROVED it....the dismantling of WMD requires protocols, procedures, and documentation....none of which was provided by Iraq when given THEIR FINAL CHANCE...

If he did not have WMD, then we are talking about a massive intelligence failure, and a brilliant job of Saddam Hussein duping the world......and if he did have them, a massive intelligence failure to locate where they went, or when they were destroyed during the run-up to the war....those with selective memory do tend to forget how long how military was building up and the UN was debating bullshit...amazing

If you want to hold the administration accountable for not finding WMD for LEGITIMATE reasons (intelligence failure), that is fine.......but to go down the path of Bush lied, or Bush mislead, or Bush pressured the CIA, or any of that other bullshit is wrong, inacurate, and not credible.....

On your point #2, your ironic point of Saddam Hussein controlling terrorism within in his borders is true.........Interesting quandry for the U.S, I guess......support the dictators and oppressive regimes in the region because they are strong enough to provide "stability" and maintain the "status quo"....and of course, take the blame from the blame America crowd for helping to create the environment that leads to "why they hate us" (even though the issue is much more complex than that)....

Or realize that in a post 9/11 world, the status quo simply does not work for the future peace of the region, the U.S. and the world---and take down one of the regions' biggest threats to the U.S......the one that did not adhere to the 1991 ceasefire agreement, the one that tried assassinating President Bush (not just "Daddy", but a U.S. former President), the one that did not adhere to a decade of sanctions, the one that shot at our planes every day in the no-fly zones, the one that supported terrorists, and the one that Clinton signed the Iraqi Liberation ACt of 1998.....BTW-if Saddam was not a threat, why sign this bill?

Raver..I have posted solid, credible evidence of Saddam Hussein and his links to terrorists (just an excellent one yesterday)......of course they are ignored by the Bush haters and the blind.....but the bottom line is you are not going to find a picture of Bin Laden and Saddam together surfing on clubplanet.com laughing at the useful idiots like mursa...

The harboring of Abu Nidal and one of the terrorists from the first WTC bombing can not be ignored. The harboring of Zarqawi BEFORE the war, and the establishment of his network in Iraq can not be ignored. Salman Pak and how and who used it can not be ignored. Ansar al Islam can not be ignored. Yes, they were set up in a Kurdish area, but the Iraqi regime and that group had a mutual enemy, and there were significant ties bewteen Ansar and Iraqi intelligence, and it is well documented.

EVen the 9/11 commission documented ties bewteen Iraq and Al Qaeda, with the caveat that is was not "operational". Why would Saddam Hussein EVER leave a substantial trail..........those tricky state sponsors, their intelligence services, and terrorist groups---how dare they try and make it hard to prove of their relationships....don't they know that does not fit into the Hollywood minds of America's useful idiots (then again, I bet they do)...

There are legitimate reasons to have been against the war that are worth debate, and there are legitimate reasons to be disgusted with this administrations post war planning.........but to go down the Bush lied about WMD path, or to claim Iraq did not have terroists ties, is simply not credible.....

[mursa]

What up Raver...

Raver..I have posted solid, credible evidence of Saddam Hussein and his links to terrorists (just an excellent one yesterday)......of course they are ignored by the Bush haters and the blind.....but the bottom line is you are not going to find a picture of Bin Laden and Saddam together surfing on clubplanet.com laughing at the useful idiots like mursa...

What up mongoloid ! ,

Mongol ... First off , excrete the rolled up Weeekly Standard magazine you have rolled up your anus , you might get some paper cuts .

I kinda feel sad for specimens such as you , Your a follower and don't know better .......explore the world and think out of the bubble , bitch ! .

[igloo]

What up Raver...

Raver..I have posted solid, credible evidence of Saddam Hussein and his links to terrorists (just an excellent one yesterday)......of course they are ignored by the Bush haters and the blind.....but the bottom line is you are not going to find a picture of Bin Laden and Saddam together surfing on clubplanet.com laughing at the useful idiots like mursa...

What up mongoloid ! ,

Mongol ... First off , excrete the rolled up Weeekly Standard magazine you have rolled up your anus , you might get some paper cuts .

I kinda feel sad for specimens such as you , Your a follower and don't know better .......explore the world and think out of the bubble , bitch ! .

Wow....another brilliant and insightful post by the resident useful idiot.....I see your "world exploration" has served you well....

What a clown......

[mursa]

..I see your "world exploration" has served you well....

What a clown......

Your an american extremist who most probably never left the continental US , anything other than the US is crap ......so i say Fuck You and your egocentric way of thinking .

....Go and copy/paste some Podovitz(sp) or Dick morris threads will ya ....dumb sheep .

[igloo]

Your an american extremist who most probably never left the continental US , anything other than the US is crap ......so i say Fuck You and your egocentric way of thinking .

....Go and copy/paste some Podovitz(sp) or Dick morris threads will ya ....dumb sheep .

What a mental midget you are....

[mindfaqd]

Your an american extremist who most probably never left the continental US , anything other than the US is crap ......so i say Fuck You and your egocentric way of thinking . .... .

I think we could get some money together and send ur ass back to wherever u came from if u don't like it here. I have been all over the globe and the US is the best place to live on the friggin planet. Get back on ur raft and sail back out to sea.

[bigpoppanils]

thats enough....

[bigpoppanils]

Mongol ... First off , excrete the rolled up Weeekly Standard magazine you have rolled up your anus , you might get some paper cuts .

"Nothing should be inserted into a person's asshole that is larger than a fist or less loving than a dildo"

---George Carlin

[mursa]

I think we could get some money together and send ur ass back to wherever u came from if u don't like it here. I have been all over the globe and the US is the best place to live on the friggin planet. Get back on ur raft and sail back out to sea.

Raft, sail back ???? .....lol stereotypical american gringo LINGO ! ...

..FYI , I've lived here for 18 years ..and your calling me a rafter ? lmao

I like this country alot , but don't like " patriotic wheeling / we are the best / fuck the rest " fucks that live here . . . .

ps... don't put words in my mouth and label people "anti-american" ..its not nice .