Support Our Torturers!

[destruction]

Weekend Edition

June 10 / 12, 2005

We Regret Any Inconvenience Caused by Your Humiliation

"Support Our Torturers!"

By BRIAN CLOUGHLEY

Airline announcement: "To passengers waiting to board Flight ABC 123: your plane has been delayed by fifteen minutes. We thank you for your patience and regret any inconvenience."

US Military in Iraq announcement: "To the 68 year-old man whose house we burst into in the middle of the night, firing stun grenades, and who we then handcuffed, hooded and dragged off to interrogate and then discovered was entirely innocent because we are a bunch of incompetent boobies, we regret any inconvenience."

That's the way it goes, folks. Explode into someone's house at 4 in the morning, trash the place, steal valuables, rough up the elderly owner and terrify his wife, haul him and his sons away, and after the whole thing is realized to have been a total military balls-up announce that "It was determined that [the victim] was detained by mistake and should be released. Coalition forces regret any inconvenience and acknowledge Mr Hamid's co-operation in resolving this matter." Then forget all about it.

If anyone is wondering why US occupation troops (ignore the misleading garbage about "coalition forces") are increasingly detested and regarded with fear and contempt by more and more Iraqis as the days go by, there is no need to look further than their act of swaggering incompetence on May 30, because it is typical of what they have been doing in Iraq since the invasion. The only reason we know about this particular case of arrogance and stupidity on the part of a bunch of clumsy thugs is because the man concerned, Dr Mohsen Abdul Hamid, is a major political figure. The citizens of the United States didn't hear much about the shambles, and they know nothing whatever about all the other outrages because they do not involve high profile people. All the other smash crash and bash operations of cloddish violence against the civil population are reported only in non-US media.

The illegal abduction and gross humiliation of Dr Abdul Hamid are much more important than the bungling ineptitude of the US military commander in Iraq. (For it is he who is to blame. It was his cretinous subordinates who ordered the raid, and his delinquent barbarians who assaulted the house of an innocent family in dead of night. The buck stops -- or should stop -- right on the shoulders of the senior star-wearer.)

The case is specially important because the President and Prime Minister of Iraq protested to the United States of America about the US military's bizarre treatment of one of their country's most prominent politicians. The violation of his privacy and dignity and the statement by Iraq's President that " . . . no one gave prior notice to the Presidential Council about the arrest of Dr. Mohsen Abdul-Hamid. This way of dealing with such a distinguished political figure is unacceptable" are not to be brushed aside. Their expressions of deep concern were made on behalf of their citizens and have a direct bearing on bilateral relations and policy. But Bush Washington ignored the protests.

Failure to respond promptly, publicly and courteously to a head of state in such circumstances is one more example of calculated international vulgarity on the part of the Bush administration. It shows the weak countries of the world that Bush regards them with contempt. Bush would respond quickly enough to China's head man (who personally despises him, with good reason), and if he didn't reply to Russia's Putin, his intellectual superior by some scores of IQ points, he would be put in his place very quickly. But little countries don't matter. And little countries, to the Bush zealots, are those whose heads of state they can insult, bully and denigrate without fear of retaliation.

Last month, President Karzai of Afghanistan dared to raise the matter of the torture and murder of some of his citizens in the most bestial fashion by American soldiers.

There was then immediate release in Washington (let's forget the word 'leak' ; this handout was a matter of Bush administration policy) of a cable from the US embassy in Kabul declaring that President Karzai is entirely responsible for the failure to counter the crisis of massive opium/heroin production in his country. This grotesque announcement was intended to deflect attention in America (the rest of the world doesn't matter) from President Karzai's expression of concern about the savagery of US soldiers in the prison camps they run. The ploy succeeded, of course. As intended by the Bush propaganda apparatchiks, most news outlets swamped the first story by the second -- if indeed they had even mentioned Karzai's protest, which many of them had not.

Deliberate release of the let's-trash-Karzai cable was not only contemptible but ludicrous. The person in the Kabul embassy who composed it (if it is genuine) is either insane, or a sniveling understrapper of the Washington system, or absurdly and unbelievably ignorant of conditions in Afghanistan. Of course President Karzai can't do anything to counter drug production or smuggling, because the 18,000 US troops in his country are forbidden to act against the drug barons and their private armies. The speedy publication of the State Department's classified cable immediately after President Karzai commented on criminal actions against his citizens was intended to humiliate him and make it clear that if he ever dares criticize US soldiers who torture and murder his people, and thus their commander-in-chief, he does so at his peril.

The smear and jeer operation against President Karzai succeeded in spades. It wasn't a shot across his bows: it was a broadside into his vitals. The poor fellow was shown publicly to be a nonentity whose words mean nothing, and his credibility in his own country was shattered. This malevolent and spiteful action by Bush Washington destroyed such authority as he had, and has set back the Afghan stability program by another decade or so. Well done, the deranged ninnies who at all costs defend The Great Leader against the slightest word of disapproval. What a bunch of squalid little jerks.

The warlords who control most of Afghanistan, almost all of whom are up to their necks in the drug trade, now know for certain that the President of Afghanistan is a mere figurehead. His request to Washington for some face-saving measure of control over US forces was rejected out of hand. The literate inhabitants of his country, all 30 per cent of them, now realize that the man they voted to be president is only a dancer to the tune of the occupying power. The illiterate majority, influenced by dangerous rabble-rousers, already firmly believed that Karzai is a mere tool of the invader, which is exactly how Afghan puppet politicians were regarded during the Soviet military occupation in the 1980s.

In similar vein, the President and Prime Minister of Iraq are supposed to be the leaders of a free country, because Bush keeps telling us that he has liberated Iraq and that it is now a democracy. But what "liberator" with any sensitivity would call the main military base in an occupied country "Camp Victory"?

Iraqis are a proud people, a fact which is regarded as quaint (where have we heard that word before?) by the Bush zealots and their smash-the-door-down occupation troops whose ferociously arrogant behavior began to alienate Iraqis immediately after the occupation began. If they had behaved as liberators rather than conquerors there wouldn't have been an uncontrollable uprising. It's too late now to reverse the hatred they have generated, but it would help to at least try to appear civilized by dropping such arrogant and triumphal (and, now, ironic) nomenclature as "Camp Victory". And while we are covering naive, pathetic and immature behavior, the US commander of Iraq should give an order forbidding his troops to use the word "hajis" to describe its citizens. Perhaps he doesn't know it is used. If so, he is failing in his duty. But if he does know that it is usual for his soldiers to scream "get the fuck out of the way you fucking hajis" at bewildered civilians, and does not forbid such atrociously insulting behavior, then he is a moron.

So it is not surprising, given the policy and atmosphere of Bush-induced exultant supremacy, that the leaders of the supposedly free nation of Iraq were not consulted about the pre-dawn arrest of the head of one of the most important political parties in their country, and that when they complained about it they were ignored. This is the Bush version of the spread of freedom, and the world has become accustomed to the use of uncouth boorishness in the US confrontation policy that has replaced diplomacy.

The few US reporters in Iraq know perfectly well that the humiliation of Dr Mohsen Abdul-Hamid was the most sensitive and important story in recent weeks, if only because it has had enormous influence on the Sunni community whose support is so critical in this terrible period of mayhem and murder. But no US paper or network gave it the cover it should have, simply because that would mean criticizing the US military and its goofy "we are the conquerors" policy for the occupation, which has been so utterly disastrous.

Media outlets that do not "Support Our Troops" to the hilt, by doing their utmost to conceal torture, murder, pre-dawn raids on innocent people, and destruction of towns on a scale reminiscent of the Nazis' obliteration of Guernica, are doomed to suffer the Bush/Nixon revenge for "disloyalty", which is malicious, poisonous and vindictive. Some of them try to tell some of the truth, but most just copy the US military mantra about its ruthless excesses that have alienated so many Iraqis and Afghans and horrified so much of the world. It's a phrase we all know well. A comfortable and contemptuous non-apology for planes being late and innocent citizens being brutally persecuted: "We regret any inconvenience." . . . .

Brian Cloughley writes on military and political affairs. He can be reached through his website www.briancloughley.com

http://www.counterpunch.org/cloughley06102005.html

[eccentricmofo]

Ok,

Not sure if you support EVERYTHING in this article, so Ill just respond to the author to be fair.

Yet another prime example how the media "selectively" focuses on a handful of negative events from this war. And yes, I did say handful. Looking at the bigger picture of things, we are there to be liberators, not conquerers. Education is the key.

Ill do my best to recall the name of this one wallstreetjournal writer who had a column for awhile speaking only of positive happenenings in the middle east. You would be very surprised. But since when has good news ever been under the limelight? Hardly ever. That is the way it has been for years and will continue to be. All media focuses on housefires, kidnappings, rapes, serial killers, mad cow disease, bombings, etc... I could go on for pages. So please do not be so closed minded.

He mentioned propaganda? Hell, this entire article is nothing but such. I could go for ever, but I will touch two more points.

As far as in being a mistaken idenity... OF FUCKING COURSE shit like that happens ten times a day in every major city with mistaken warrants etc. SHit happens. This guy is in the same category as those unfortunate people as well. I love how people word it as if we intentionally knew the guy was innocent and still fucked with him. IGnorant fucks. seriously.

Ok, the last thing that damn near sickened me. Sincerely did not feel well after reading such a thing.

"delinquent barbarians who assaulted the house"

Delinquent barbarians? Are you FUCKINg kidding me? First of all. Those people are you goddamn neighbors, teachers, even ministers as well as active service men and woman. Fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, sons and daughters. No matter which way you title them, they all share the same belief system. They made a choice, volunteered to put their life at risk daily for months at a time to fight for YOU. You ignorant fuck.

Biased? Me? sure... I joined the service over a year ago. And to be honest, I have never met such kind and over-all beautiful people as I have in the military. Majority of these souls are self-less on such a level that you will unfortunately never be able to comprehend. Such a large group of altruistic characters that I am newly associated with and willingly will goto war with, to die for.

Call what I just stated at silly... That you wont understand. But thats how I feel.

Most people just cant fathom how much is sincerely sacrificed to do what we do. Im by far NOT patting myself on my own back, Im an adult and have made the decision on my own. But it was my decision, and for someone to refer either directly or indirectly as me being a delinquent barbarian? Especially when they have no fucking clue why I even do what I do? I warn anyone to say such a thing to my face or one of my comrades. Seriously.

Ill stop, my blood pressure is a bit high..ha.

All in all, this response is in regards to the authors statements... you may not feel the same with posting such.. so its not towards you.

But if you agree with everything this spank is saying..then it is towards you as well destruction.

fuck.. I need a cigarette...

p.s.

Fuck the ignorant slime that feels 100% with what this article states, be careful to not express your views anywhere near ANY serviceman or woman for I can promise you your teeth will be kicked so far down your throat you will gumming your food from then on.

On the same note... you have a right to post such, ironically, I will stand up for that very same right as well.

Yup...try to figure that out, putting my life at risk for someone that hates me... got to love ironies.

Have a nice day...

[igloo]

Ok,

Not sure if you support EVERYTHING in this article, so Ill just respond to the author to be fair.

Yet another prime example how the media "selectively" focuses on a handful of negative events from this war. And yes, I did say handful. Looking at the bigger picture of things, we are there to be liberators, not conquerers. Education is the key.

Ill do my best to recall the name of this one wallstreetjournal writer who had a column for awhile speaking only of positive happenenings in the middle east. You would be very surprised. But since when has good news ever been under the limelight? Hardly ever. That is the way it has been for years and will continue to be. All media focuses on housefires, kidnappings, rapes, serial killers, mad cow disease, bombings, etc... I could go on for pages. So please do not be so closed minded.

He mentioned propaganda? Hell, this entire article is nothing but such. I could go for ever, but I will touch two more points.

As far as in being a mistaken idenity... OF FUCKING COURSE shit like that happens ten times a day in every major city with mistaken warrants etc. SHit happens. This guy is in the same category as those unfortunate people as well. I love how people word it as if we intentionally knew the guy was innocent and still fucked with him. IGnorant fucks. seriously.

Ok, the last thing that damn near sickened me. Sincerely did not feel well after reading such a thing.

"delinquent barbarians who assaulted the house"

Delinquent barbarians? Are you FUCKINg kidding me? First of all. Those people are you goddamn neighbors, teachers, even ministers as well as active service men and woman. Fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, sons and daughters. No matter which way you title them, they all share the same belief system. They made a choice, volunteered to put their life at risk daily for months at a time to fight for YOU. You ignorant fuck.

Biased? Me? sure... I joined the service over a year ago. And to be honest, I have never met such kind and over-all beautiful people as I have in the military. Majority of these souls are self-less on such a level that you will unfortunately never be able to comprehend. Such a large group of altruistic characters that I am newly associated with and willingly will goto war with, to die for.

Call what I just stated at silly... That you wont understand. But thats how I feel.

Most people just cant fathom how much is sincerely sacrificed to do what we do. Im by far NOT patting myself on my own back, Im an adult and have made the decision on my own. But it was my decision, and for someone to refer either directly or indirectly as me being a delinquent barbarian? Especially when they have no fucking clue why I even do what I do? I warn anyone to say such a thing to my face or one of my comrades. Seriously.

Ill stop, my blood pressure is a bit high..ha.

All in all, this response is in regards to the authors statements... you may not feel the same with posting such.. so its not towards you.

But if you agree with everything this spank is saying..then it is towards you as well destruction.

fuck.. I need a cigarette...

p.s.

Fuck the ignorant slime that feels 100% with what this article states, be careful to not express your views anywhere near ANY serviceman or woman for I can promise you your teeth will be kicked so far down your throat you will gumming your food from then on.

On the same note... you have a right to post such, ironically, I will stand up for that very same right as well.

Yup...try to figure that out, putting my life at risk for someone that hates me... got to love ironies.

Have a nice day...

Thank you for all you and your fellow brothers and sisters do for all of us.....believe me, irrespective of the agenda of the media and some ignorant people, we know and appreciate the sacrifice and progress you have made......

I too have family and friends in the military, and they too can not stomach what the media chooses to focus on, or portray things, or the windbags in our own country that spit out propoganda like this author (and those who would waste the time posting it).

Your last statement in your p.s. was outstanding, and truly says it all about the men and wome in uniform............Godspeed

[bigpoppanils]

this article is disgusting.

are there a few bad apples in the US military? sure.

does it mean all of the military personell are torturers, murderers, and/or propogandists? no. should they be compared to Nazi's? DEFINITELY NOT.

the attitudes of people like this author make me feel ashamed to call myself a liberal sometimes.

[eccentricmofo]

bigpoppanils and igloo thank you ten-times over for you understanding and support...

and the hell are you guys? Its a bit vague, but I do recall before I went into the Army over a year and a half ago b.s.ing with you two on this board.

Ok, maybe being military with those mood enhancing drugs they put in my food I am indeed just a slight bit more patriotic then I was before... lmao..but still..good times...good times.

Maybe later out of curiousity Ill look at some old posts... Im not too sure but I think bigpoppanils, you and I have debated against each other a few times..

GOD FORBID we agree on something...lol.

Hmm... must not tell others ... the truth may make us appear weak...

here.. allow me to try to save face...

Damn you liberals..tree huggin hippies!... ok.. I feel better... lol j/k

[siceone]

Just another example of the fringe left taking our faliures out of context and thier desire for our failure.

[igloo]

Just another example of the fringe left taking our faliures out of context and thier desire for our failure.

I think what you pointed out is the sad reality, that there are some actually who root for failure, take glee in anything deemed a failure (or will portray it as a failure if it is not), and jump on every mistake/misstep in order to elevate or hyper-promote or bloviate to support their own agenda of defeatism, political gain, anti-Americanism, or plain ignorance.

AFter Bush's speech last night, I forgot who and which channel it was on--but someone commented that can you imagine if this country had to wage World War II with todays' media coverage and cynicism........

[obby]

Education is the key.

Best advice I have read in a while and YES........I'm back!

Thought I would share this artcle concidering all the nay saying regarding our presence in Iraq.

The Occupation of Germany

June 2, 2004

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

"With all the nay saying about our presence in Iraq, it's worth noting that none of these difficulties are particularly new. No postwar occupation has been without serious challenges, including the occupation of Germany after World War II. The New York Times ran a series of news stories in late 1945 reporting, in part, the following:

"Headline: Germans Reveal Hate of Americans. Oct. 31, 1945. (Stories)

The German attitude toward the American occupation forces has swung from apathy and surface friendliness to active dislike. According to a military government official, this is finding expression in the organization of numerous local anti-American organizations throughout the zone and in a rapid increase in the number of attacks on American soldiers. There were more such attacks in the first week of October than in the preceding five months of the occupation, this source declared. This official views the situation as so serious that he and others are protesting the withdrawal of 1,600 experienced military-government officers from the German governments on township, county and regional levels between Nov. 1 and Dec. 15."

Sound familiar? You know, this is what I call -- I don't mean to be redundant -- but historical perspective. So many people think that we've never been through anything like this before. "Iraq is horrible and wrong." It's understandable when you look at the press coverage the Democrats are getting, talking about this "micromanaging" every little thing that goes wrong. How many news reports were there of World War II when one or two soldiers died? Zip. We didn't know until we went to the Movietone news on Saturday. We didn't really see any moving pictures, you know, we had newspapers in their daily accounts. Not being critical, I'm just saying it's different. The coverage is different, but the reality is not different. What happens in war happens in war, always has, always will.

Another headline, November 18th, 1945, from the New York Times: Loss of Victory in Germany Through U.S. Policy Feared. November 18th. They thought we were going to lose. Our occupation was going so bad, that we were going to lose the war! (Stories)

"Grave concern was expressed today by informed officials that the United States might soon lose the fruits of victory in Germany through the failure to prepare adequately for carrying out its long-term commitments under the Potsdam Declaration."

Why, where have I heard this before? I think it goes something like this. [Doing John Kerry impression] "Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz and thooose neocons, theeey didn't plan effectively for the aftermath! Whhhy, this is an abject failure. Whhhy, we're losing this war." Or losing the peace, whatever the hell they say we're losing. "They didn't plan for the aftermath. They had no idea what was going to happen." And look at this, 1945. This is almost 60 years ago, and it's the exact same thing.

"Might soon lose the fruits of victory in Germany through the failure to prepare adequately for carrying out its long-term commitments under the Potsdam Declaration."

"Germans Declare Americans Hated, December 3rd, 1945. (Stories)

An exhaustive compilation of opinions of Germans in all walks of life on their reaction to the United States occupation of their country was released this afternoon from the confidential status under which it was submitted to officials of the United States Forces in the European Theatre recently. Bitter resentment and deep disappointment was voiced over the Americans' first six months of occupation, though there was some praise for the improvements in transportation, health conditions, book publishing and entertainment."

The New York Times then, the New York Times today. Sixty years ago. Virtually identical. And one more, December 19th, 1945. "German Election Set In Towns of U.S. Zone. (Stories) "United States Seventh Army headquarters announced today that plans had been completed for initial German elections in January at Gemuende. A statement said that a vast majority of Germans remained passive in attitude toward politics and displayed no disposition to take over civic responsibilities."

If you want to understand reality and truth and life and all these sorts of things. If you want to have an accurate portrayal of historical perspective, understand that what's happening in Iraq is quite normal, and, in fact, probably ahead of schedule, compared to Germany or Japan. Way ahead of schedule. It's good news. It's reason to be optimistic. They still got the same naysayers today as you had then, but what we have today is what we had then. We have committed leadership.

END TRANSCRIPT

[bigpoppanils]

GOD FORBID we agree on something...lol.

i know. i feel dirty.

[eccentricmofo]

Igloo, your oh so correct, with todays' media coverage and cynicism blah! Good luck. Im surprised the media hasnt argued yet that killing in a war is wrong and horrible of a thing. As if these people forgot the very basic definition of "war".

Obby, Welcome back, I see you as well have come out of hiding.

Very good articles to post... You are correct as well, history does repeat itself.

I have a theory for all the naysayers. Who bitch and whine, saying "bush said this... the US are fools for having NO clue how this was going to go... etc..etc..

and Ill try to be brief given that I must run back to work soon...

Really simple.

The average citzen...aka "Joe Public", sad to say, although certainly true... is a stupid simplton who is very very sensitive.

Now if the administration said from the get go....like they knew, that this middle eastern vendetta would take alot of money and a very long time, and surely will in turn take the lives of many us soldiers...HA. You think that america wouldnt revolt?

Joe Public can not comprehend the granduer scheme of things. Globally shared freedom, morality in regards to cultures systematically abusing themselves (i.e. woman and children in the middle east), shiite and sunni skirmishes of murderous mis-understanding...and so on and so forth.

TOo much information for Joe to swallow. What people must realize is that Bush, and the administration have to dumb it down to.. Terrorism is Bad!, and we must spread Freedom... Because even those two simple facts alone are hard to understand. As far as in the long run, and how its necessary.

Believe it or not folks our country is more or less altruistic and "relatively" morally sound with its policy. But ooh.. the oil, this and that.. of course. Who the fuck can fix near EVERYONE elses problems without some sort of stiffen or tax, or trade off. Duh..

Anyways, you guys all make very good points and if we work together..maybe just maybe we could change the mind of this stubborn destruction dude...

but...

worst case scenario, if we have no luck with convincing...

we could always beat him down Jersey style...haha..

[destruction]

Igloo, your oh so correct, with todays' media coverage and cynicism blah! Good luck. Im surprised the media hasnt argued yet that killing in a war is wrong and horrible of a thing. As if these people forgot the very basic definition of "war".

Obby, Welcome back, I see you as well have come out of hiding.

Very good articles to post... You are correct as well, history does repeat itself.

I have a theory for all the naysayers. Who bitch and whine, saying "bush said this... the US are fools for having NO clue how this was going to go... etc..etc..

and Ill try to be brief given that I must run back to work soon...

Really simple.

The average citzen...aka "Joe Public", sad to say, although certainly true... is a stupid simplton who is very very sensitive.

Now if the administration said from the get go....like they knew, that this middle eastern vendetta would take alot of money and a very long time, and surely will in turn take the lives of many us soldiers...HA. You think that america wouldnt revolt?

Joe Public can not comprehend the granduer scheme of things. Globally shared freedom, morality in regards to cultures systematically abusing themselves (i.e. woman and children in the middle east), shiite and sunni skirmishes of murderous mis-understanding...and so on and so forth.

TOo much information for Joe to swallow. What people must realize is that Bush, and the administration have to dumb it down to.. Terrorism is Bad!, and we must spread Freedom... Because even those two simple facts alone are hard to understand. As far as in the long run, and how its necessary.

Believe it or not folks our country is more or less altruistic and "relatively" morally sound with its policy. But ooh.. the oil, this and that.. of course. Who the fuck can fix near EVERYONE elses problems without some sort of stiffen or tax, or trade off. Duh..

Anyways, you guys all make very good points and if we work together..maybe just maybe we could change the mind of this stubborn destruction dude...

but...

worst case scenario, if we have no luck with convincing...

we could always beat him down Jersey style...haha..

Thank you for all you and your fellow brothers and sisters do for all of us.....believe me, irrespective of the agenda of the media and some ignorant people, we know and appreciate the sacrifice and progress you have made......

I too have family and friends in the military, and they too can not stomach what the media chooses to focus on, or portray things, or the windbags in our own country that spit out propoganda like this author (and those who would waste the time posting it).

Your last statement in your p.s. was outstanding, and truly says it all about the men and wome in uniform............Godspeed

It must be a thrill to be such a jackbooted Nazi. The thrill of "OBEY" is so alluring, I suppose. Enjoy the next four years as your family and friends are sent off to pointless war after pointless war, none of which make the United States one iota safer. Perhaps they'll get killed "maintaining my security" in Fallujah or some other third-world shithole filled with people who hate America more than they used to before we arrived and bombed their civilians, blew up their churches, shot surrendering teenagers inside their mosques and sexually humiliated their prisoners. Or maybe you believe the fiction that invading Iraq has made us "safer," despite the fact that the President of Pakistan said on CNN that the invasion of Iraq was a horrible mistake which has made everyone less safe? The same with our other military dictator you fucking mongoloids, the President of Egypt. You know, when puppet military dictators who maintain power by brutally repressing their people with guns that the United States sells them for half price (and we wonder why Arabs hate America) are on TV saying that our completely unnecessary War On Iraq was a mistake, it should make you think twice. Either way, we're stuck there now for the next ten to twenty years. I sure hope they enjoy their tour(s), as they no doubt voted for GW Bush twice, convinced that Al Qaeda was hiding in Iraq, that Saddam was ten days from getting a nuclear bomb and that the Boogeyman was hiding under Iraq's bed. I hope they enjoy the endless stop-loss loop they're sure to get stuck in! BTW, none of my actions mock the men in the military: only their Commander-in-Chief and their top echelon commanders. It's threats like yours to relieve Americans of their civil rights and to torture and rape your fellow Americans which make some people distrust the military. Such comments are disgusting and completely unworthy of a member of America's military. Maybe they should move to South America... I understand that many of those countries encourage such behavior by their armed forces. They'd doubtless be happier murdering people in a Guatemalan Death Squad. Maybe they should look into it.

Maybe you ought to join up and look into it yourselves since you're so hellbent on murdering and torture and advocate it so much like good reich wing anti-american mongoloids.

[igloo]

It must be a thrill to be such a jackbooted Nazi.

Maybe you ought to join up and look into it yourselves since you're so hellbent on murdering and torture and advocate it so much like good reich wing anti-american mongoloids.

U r a repulsive, dumb piece of shit ..........words are not strong enough to describe how despicable u r.........

[bigpoppanils]

It must be a thrill to be such a jackbooted Nazi.

good god.

[destruction]

U r a repulsive, dumb piece of shit ..........words are not strong enough to describe how despicable u r.........

Is that all you got??

1. Try using "you" and "are" instead or "U" and "r".

2. Try proper use of puncuation. One period instead of ........... periods is proper grammar when finishing a sentence.

Keeping these in mind, this stands between being a repulsive uneducated Nazi troll and just being a troll and you will become a much improved intelligent insulter.

And speaking of periods, you must be having one.

Fucking sheep.

Thank you for admitting:

1. You are a fascist no different than Hitler and...

2. You advocate torture and murder of innocent civilians like a good anti-American and...

3. That you hate America and you should head to JFK and take the first international flight out of the US and...

4. You are a disgrace to the uniform and...

5. You are a chickenhawk too scared to fight the same war you support. You rather see others die than get your hands dirty in the same shit. You don't support the troops. Are you afraid to get your hands dirty? Is this the reason why you support this nazi shit? Oh, I get it. You only support this war ONLY because you have stocks in Halliburton and the Carlyle group and ONLY to support Bush and...

6. I have already destroyed siceone. You're next!

good god.

Yes. God is good. Don't knock it.

[eccentricmofo]

ummm...ok.

Ill do my best to reply maturely, with slight candor, like I have been thus far. Im so proud of myself for not just typing all the very rude wicked comments going on in my head right now... anyways.. here goes..

First to quote you...

"Maybe you ought to join up and look into it yourselves since you're so hellbent on murdering and torture and advocate it so much like good reich wing anti-american mongoloids"

Ok, first of all... maybe that first quote was directed to everyone else but me, or you just forgot what I typed previously in another reply.

I did join up.. and have looked (modestly speaking) more thoroughly into all these topics that you refer that you could even fathom. I shant go into too much details, but my sources have no connection what-so-ever to the media, nor are they related to any US formed propaganda, which Im just assuming is another route youd go from here.

Also about that first quote... no. Im not hellbent on murdering. I can shoot like a mother fucker.. must be the jersey in me.. but Im not looking to take anyones life unecessarily... keyword.. unecessarily. To tell you the truth.. sure. If some bad dude.. hell better yet.. a 14 year old kid comes up to me with an ak-47 ... he will be so filled with lead its not funny. Take that for what its worth. AND I love kids!! go figure.

ok..now for this quote...

"It's threats like yours to relieve Americans of their civil rights and to torture and rape your fellow Americans which make some people distrust the military. Such comments are disgusting and completely unworthy of a member of America's military."

Maybe I was tired when posting earlier.. but I could of sworn I didnt say anything about torturing or raping my FELLOW americans.. wait.. let me think.....

ummm... Nope... Pretty fucking sure that I didnt say that. NOR did anyone else. And civil rights? Im not even going to touch that confusing accusation, you are probably refering to one american who just so happend to visit pakistan, iran, iraq, and has been seen with al queda.. all after 9-11, and then insists his rights were violated because he was just on vacation sorta bullshit.. so I wont even touch that one.

"Such comments are disgusting and completely unworthy of a member of America's military."

Whats disgusting is that you havent absorbed anything anyone of us has said... if you educate yourself from ALL angles of a topic..then truth tends to be more clear.

For an example.. I think michael moore is a media twisting manipulative kunt-hair.. and I know.. ya .. Im in the ARmy .. so of course Id say that. But I actually watched his video with an open mind. And still get sick everytime I think of him..yuck.

Speaking of worthiness... how about this.. you to be honest are by far not worthy at all to tell ME what the FUCK Im doing in this conflict. Better yet.. how about this ... This global shit sandwhich has been nothing but the focus of my job for LITERALLY 24 hrs a day 7 days a week for a year, 8 months, 4 days, and as of current, 16hrs. I think Im pretty worthy of talking about what I am indeed dealing with either directly or indirectly on a daily basis.

Your sources? Michael moore?...Fox...CNN? And lets not forget the NYTIMES, where only 80% of the reporters actually goto places that they write about going to..

Anyways, I could go on and on... I tried earlier to remain polite..and even though slipping a bit here and there, Im relatively still doing a good job. For how I usually am.

Hey, if you want to have a serious discussion... do tell... I mean ask away or just at least stop generalizing. Thats your biggest problem. thousands upon thousands of detainees have been caught, processed, interrogated, and released since the begining of this shit and YOU talk about a very very very very small handful of incidences AS IF we were systematically doing this to every fucking woman and child. THat naiveness is scary.

phew.. ok.. as I was.. Im done for now...

By the way.. Im not just a member of the military.. but a rather a paratrooper in the US Army.. a bit more espirit de corps...lol

AIrborne!

[eccentricmofo]

dude.. you are so backwards.. how can you ridicule igloo for his FUcKinG ...., :::: puncuation. When you cant even keep track of which of ONly three people arguing with you is in the military. Scary...

And sure.. your right... as far as nazi's go.. we get that arm-band issued in basic training now... you didnt know that? Ya.. its right after week 4 of training .. in between the woman-raping class and right before we get to kill our very first baby with are bare hands... good training...

Im sorry... one more thing.. .How is what we are doing in the middle east compared to FUCKING GENOCIDE? If you can explain that one, I SWEAR Ill buy your drinks for you and friends all night at a bar of your choice.. mark my words...

[siceone]

I just have to say I have never been so proud of nills.

[luvofdancechik]

i agree with the "naysayer"

americans are arrogant. the whole world is against this war. BUT OF COURSE - AMERICAN KNOWS BETTER.

after 911..we had the world on our side. Ready to help in ANY way they can. Not even 2 months later. We did a complete 180.

Of course...were right..everyone else is wrong. <rolling eyes>

I feel that only uncultured hicks are the ones who are stupid enough to beleive the crap in the media. Anyone who has traveled and has seen the world, KNOWS that america is not what we claim to be. Actually we are quite primitive with our CHRISTIAN "MORALS" and mission for perfection.

We have to stop thinking we are better than everyone.

we have to stop thinking we are always right.

In reality, america will not last another 30 years. The EU is already on its way to destroying our economy.

ROMAN EMPIRE #2..here we come.

we've only been around for what...200 years? but of course...we think we are industructable. Lets be realistic here.

[siceone]

i agree with the "naysayer"

americans are arrogant. the whole world is against this war. BUT OF COURSE - AMERICAN KNOWS BETTER.

after 911..we had the world on our side. Ready to help in ANY way they can. Not even 2 months later. We did a complete 180.

Of course...were right..everyone else is wrong. <rolling eyes>

I feel that only uncultured hicks are the ones who are stupid enough to beleive the crap in the media. Anyone who has traveled and has seen the world, KNOWS that america is not what we claim to be. Actually we are quite primitive with our CHRISTIAN "MORALS" and mission for perfection.

We have to stop thinking we are better than everyone.

we have to stop thinking we are always right.

In reality, america will not last another 30 years. The EU is already on its way to destroying our economy.

ROMAN EMPIRE #2..here we come.

we've only been around for what...200 years? but of course...we think we are industructable. Lets be realistic here.

Oh my god This is probably the worst post I have ever seen and sad to say Destruction is better informed than you are.

First of all We are right, america that is. you can't negotiate and appease terrorists these people have no states you can't deal with them unless you want to put a burka on every woman in the US and have ever man wear a turban. That's what terrorists want they don't want freedom they want us dead because we are christian.

Second of all Most of the world supported us if you look at the facts there are more countries supporting this war oh iraq than there were supporting the first war. Of course the UN didn't want us to go into iraq they had been making BILLIONS of dollars the frend and the russians and the chinese were all making tons of money. do your research and realize that countries were flouting the resolutions. we tried for a Year after 12 previous to get saddam to open up the country, and he played games.

Third ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!! Europes Economoy Except of Scottland and a hand full of other small countries is in shambles they have double digit unemployement and every successful industry in europe is subsidized. The quality of goods that have come out of europe has steadily decreased, hell even BMW is having trouble keeping quality up. Europes economy is no where near ours No where. The only countries that are challengers are india and china. and even then we're not on a level playing field with them they have tarriffs on our good and then they court american companies to bring low level jobs to india.

The chinese are cheating pegging their currency, keeping US goods more expensive than chinese goods. not to mention they don't have any rules and all industries are subsidized. lets not forget that China Steals Everything they make Everything they are the worst patent infringers on the planet.

The US economy is strong and growing and stable and would be even more stable if everyone around the world played fair ball but they don't because instead of bringing them selves up they just seek to bring the US down.

The EU isn't on it's way to destroying anything they don't have a standing army they don't have any sort of powerhouse industry. they don't even have a Constitution Cmon now They can't even Ratify a constitution!!!

By the way the Roman Empire was a period of peace and scientific advancement. The reason the roman empire Fell was because of moral relativism and decadence.

Read a book.

[igloo]

i agree with the "naysayer"

americans are arrogant. the whole world is against this war. BUT OF COURSE - AMERICAN KNOWS BETTER.

after 911..we had the world on our side. Ready to help in ANY way they can. Not even 2 months later. We did a complete 180.

Of course...were right..everyone else is wrong. <rolling eyes>

I feel that only uncultured hicks are the ones who are stupid enough to beleive the crap in the media. Anyone who has traveled and has seen the world, KNOWS that america is not what we claim to be. Actually we are quite primitive with our CHRISTIAN "MORALS" and mission for perfection.

We have to stop thinking we are better than everyone.

we have to stop thinking we are always right.

In reality, america will not last another 30 years. The EU is already on its way to destroying our economy.

ROMAN EMPIRE #2..here we come.

we've only been around for what...200 years? but of course...we think we are industructable. Lets be realistic here.

Mind boggling stupidity

[bigpoppanils]

.

Third ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!! Europes Economoy Except of Scottland and a hand full of other small countries is in shambles they have double digit unemployement and every successful industry in europe is subsidized. The quality of goods that have come out of europe has steadily decreased, hell even BMW is having trouble keeping quality up. Europes economy is no where near ours No where. The only countries that are challengers are india and china. and even then we're not on a level playing field with them they have tarriffs on our good and then they court american companies to bring low level jobs to india.

Scotland's economy isnt doing too well. I think you meant Ireland.

the UK has been doing OK. Europe's biggest problem is that the biggest economies (France, Germany, Italy) are resisting the global economy's trend away from manufacturing and into services. and the stupid ECB refuses to cut rates.

btw: BMW and Mercedes are cleaning up their quality issues...but a lot of those issues were tied to software incompatibilities, not the quality of the actual manufacturing.

[destruction]

Mind boggling stupidity

Is that all you got?

[eccentricmofo]

Completely random of a thought...

Did you ever just have the craving to kick someone in the face until it turned red....white (assuming they are caucasian), and blue?

Just a thought...

[destruction]

Completely random of a thought...

Did you ever just have the craving to kick someone in the face until it turned red....white (assuming they are caucasian), and blue?

Just a thought...

When I kick someone in the face, it's black and blue.

[eccentricmofo]

umm....ok....

and I like cheetos... the point?