Reports: Plot to attack Paris subway, airport

[igloo]

What does bush have to do with IF we trained bin laden? Like i said I do not think we trained bin laden but I am sure we aided him in some way.

U ignored my post?

We did not train or aid him in any way...

[destruction]

U ignored my post?

We did not train or aid him in any way...

It was the French. Yeah, that's it...

http://www.foxnews.com/news/france_trained_usama_bin_laden.htm

The US does nothing wrong because we are invincible and no matter what we do it's always right because we have God's blessings. /sarcasm

You have yet to provide any proof of your weak claim. Seriously iglost, I would like to know who told you this or were you told to say this.

A few hours after the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon, the Bush administration concluded without supporting evidence, that "Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaeda organisation were prime suspects". CIA Director George Tenet stated that bin Laden has the capacity to plan ``multiple attacks with little or no warning.'' Secretary of State Colin Powell called the attacks "an act of war" and President Bush confirmed in an evening televised address to the Nation that he would "make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them". Former CIA Director James Woolsey pointed his finger at "state sponsorship," implying the complicity of one or more foreign governments. In the words of former National Security Adviser, Lawrence Eagleburger, "I think we will show when we get attacked like this, we are terrible in our strength and in our retribution."

Meanwhile, parroting official statements, the Western media mantra has approved the launching of "punitive actions" directed against civilian targets in the Middle East. In the words of William Saffire writing in the New York Times: "When we reasonably determine our attackers' bases and camps, we must pulverize them -- minimizing but accepting the risk of collateral damage" -- and act overtly or covertly to destabilize terror's national hosts".

The following text outlines the history of Osama Bin Laden and the links of the Islamic "Jihad" to the formulation of US foreign policy during the Cold War and its aftermath.

Prime suspect in the New York and Washington terrorists attacks, branded by the FBI as an "international terrorist" for his role in the African US embassy bombings, Saudi born Osama bin Laden was recruited during the Soviet-Afghan war "ironically under the auspices of the CIA, to fight Soviet invaders". 1

In 1979 "the largest covert operation in the history of the CIA" was launched in response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in support of the pro-Communist government of Babrak Kamal.2:

With the active encouragement of the CIA and Pakistan's ISI [inter Services Intelligence], who wanted to turn the Afghan jihad into a global war waged by all Muslim states against the Soviet Union, some 35,000 Muslim radicals from 40 Islamic countries joined Afghanistan's fight between 1982 and 1992. Tens of thousands more came to study in Pakistani madrasahs. Eventually more than 100,000 foreign Muslim radicals were directly influenced by the Afghan jihad.3

The Islamic "jihad" was supported by the United States and Saudi Arabia with a significant part of the funding generated from the Golden Crescent drug trade:

In March 1985, President Reagan signed National Security Decision Directive 166,...[which] authorize[d] stepped-up covert military aid to the mujahideen, and it made clear that the secret Afghan war had a new goal: to defeat Soviet troops in Afghanistan through covert action and encourage a Soviet withdrawal. The new covert U.S. assistance began with a dramatic increase in arms supplies -- a steady rise to 65,000 tons annually by 1987, ... as well as a "ceaseless stream" of CIA and Pentagon specialists who traveled to the secret headquarters of Pakistan's ISI on the main road near Rawalpindi, Pakistan. There the CIA specialists met with Pakistani intelligence officers to help plan operations for the Afghan rebels.4

The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) using Pakistan's military Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) played a key role in training the Mujahideen. In turn, the CIA sponsored guerrilla training was integrated with the teachings of Islam:

Predominant themes were that Islam was a complete socio-political ideology, that holy Islam was being violated by the atheistic Soviet troops, and that the Islamic people of Afghanistan should reassert their independence by overthrowing the leftist Afghan regime propped up by Moscow.5

Pakistan's Intelligence Apparatus

Pakistan's ISI was used as a "go-between". The CIA covert support to the "jihad" operated indirectly through the Pakistani ISI, --i.e. the CIA did not channel its support directly to the Mujahideen. In other words, for these covert operations to be "successful", Washington was careful not to reveal the ultimate objective of the "jihad", which consisted in destroying the Soviet Union.

In the words of CIA's Milton Beardman "We didn't train Arabs". Yet according to Abdel Monam Saidali, of the Al-aram Center for Strategic Studies in Cairo, bin Laden and the "Afghan Arabs" had been imparted "with very sophisticated types of training that was allowed to them by the CIA" 6

CIA's Beardman confirmed, in this regard, that Osama bin Laden was not aware of the role he was playing on behalf of Washington. In the words of bin Laden (quoted by Beardman): "neither I, nor my brothers saw evidence of American help". 7

Motivated by nationalism and religious fervor, the Islamic warriors were unaware that they were fighting the Soviet Army on behalf of Uncle Sam. While there were contacts at the upper levels of the intelligence hierarchy, Islamic rebel leaders in theatre had no contacts with Washington or the CIA.

With CIA backing and the funneling of massive amounts of US military aid, the Pakistani ISI had developed into a "parallel structure wielding enormous power over all aspects of government". 8 The ISI had a staff composed of military and intelligence officers, bureaucrats, undercover agents and informers, estimated at 150,000. 9

Meanwhile, CIA operations had also reinforced the Pakistani military regime led by General Zia Ul Haq:

'Relations between the CIA and the ISI [Pakistan's military intelligence] had grown increasingly warm following [General] Zia's ouster of Bhutto and the advent of the military regime,'... During most of the Afghan war, Pakistan was more aggressively anti-Soviet than even the United States. Soon after the Soviet military invaded Afghanistan in 1980, Zia [ul Haq] sent his ISI chief to destabilize the Soviet Central Asian states. The CIA only agreed to this plan in October 1984.... `the CIA was more cautious than the Pakistanis.' Both Pakistan and the United States took the line of deception on Afghanistan with a public posture of negotiating a settlement while privately agreeing that military escalation was the best course.10

The Golden Crescent Drug Triangle

The history of the drug trade in Central Asia is intimately related to the CIA's covert operations. Prior to the Soviet-Afghan war, opium production in Afghanistan and Pakistan was directed to small regional markets. There was no local production of heroin. 11 In this regard, Alfred McCoy's study confirms that within two years of the onslaught of the CIA operation in Afghanistan, "the Pakistan-Afghanistan borderlands became the world's top heroin producer, supplying 60 percent of U.S. demand. In Pakistan, the heroin-addict population went from near zero in 1979... to 1.2 million by 1985 -- a much steeper rise than in any other nation":12<blockquote> CIA assets again controlled this heroin trade. As the Mujahideen guerrillas seized territory inside Afghanistan, they ordered peasants to plant opium as a re

[destruction]

Perfect illustration of why you are inconsequential

Kudos to you MOGAGO!

http://bbs.clubplanet.com/showthread.php?t=283445

Nazi!!

[jtk4]

U ignored my post?

We did not train or aid him in any way...

I didn't ignore it I don't believe it.

Same enemy, same time, same place. Only a small amount of people would know the truth and most are dead or would deny working with each other.

If the US did not help out in that area bin laden would be dead.

[destruction]

I didn't ignore it I don't believe it.

Same enemy, same time, same place. Only a small amount of people would know the truth and most are dead or would deny working with each other.

If the US did not help out in that area bin laden would be dead.

point well taken.

I bet he believes the French trained him though he cannot find anything to back that.

[igloo]

I didn't ignore it I don't believe it.

Same enemy, same time, same place. Only a small amount of people would know the truth and most are dead or would deny working with each other.

If the US did not help out in that area bin laden would be dead.

U do'nt believe it? You mean the 9/11 Commission report? A host of Bin Laden profilers and AL Qaeda experts? Investigative journalists? Or just igloo

Same enemy, same time, same place oversimplifies an enormously complex situation.........your call if you don't want to believe it, or ignore the enormous amount of facts to the contrary......

But I can say with complete confidence that the U.S. never trained Bin Laden.....period, never, ever. Not because I believe so, but because it is fact.

[jtk4]

Its not you, as i believe you are telling me what you believe to be true.

The 9-11 commission report probably did not spend to much time investigating this because of the revelence. I just can not see the arab fighters not using weapons we supplied, not to them directly. Like i said if we were not helping he would be dead.

[igloo]

Its not you, as i believe you are telling me what you believe to be true.

The 9-11 commission report probably did not spend to much time investigating this because of the revelence. I just can not see the arab fighters not using weapons we supplied, not to them directly. Like i said if we were not helping he would be dead.

Ahhh...not what I "believe" to be true, but what has been proven to be true, by multiple and extensive sources......huge difference.

Also, it goes to my point, that there is a HUGE distinctions and differences between the Afghani's and the Arab Afghans, and how they were dealt with, and looked upon by the U.S., ISI, and the AFGHANI's, who despised them, even though they were fighting a common enemy....

Could a U.S. weapon or a dollar have made its way to the Arab Afghans.....of course....however, it would be microscopic compared to their own funding channels, and that is the way they wanted it.......and again, you have to remember, or learn one thing, Bin Laden's status in those days was greatly enhanced by MYTH in the 90's compared to his actual contributions in those days....

So, to repeat....The U.S. never, ever trained Bin Laden. Ever. Period. As has been implied or charged on this thread. We can go round and round, but I know I have facts and truth on my side.

P.S....You can not possibly be dismissing the 9/11 Commission report finding...but if so, you can not dismiss the finding of countless others who had similar findings...you can choose to "believe" differently, but I am confident that if you were presented with the facts, and the proper material, you would think differently, despite your pre-conceived ideas.....feel free to pick up Bergen's book as a starting point, as I already recommended...and can recommend a host of others as well if you wish.

Thanks for the distraction, because I am going to put my foot through the screen soon watching this Yankee game

[drlogic]

I saw that game too....between the Miami Heat vs. San Antonio Spurs (which the Heat won at the last second.....), Monday night football and the ESPN classic "Young Mike Tyson's Greatests hits" (frigin' great! that boy was a fohk'n pit bull!!!).....I saw the Yankees lose.....

Sorry bro...I was gunning for 'em. I went to high school w/ A-Rod. He was a couple years younger than me, but I still want to see the guy succeed. Funny to look at the year books and see him in there....

[jtk4]

Ahhh...not what I "believe" to be true, but what has been proven to be true, by multiple and extensive sources......huge difference.

Also, it goes to my point, that there is a HUGE distinctions and differences between the Afghani's and the Arab Afghans, and how they were dealt with, and looked upon by the U.S., ISI, and the AFGHANI's, who despised them, even though they were fighting a common enemy....

Could a U.S. weapon or a dollar have made its way to the Arab Afghans.....of course....however, it would be microscopic compared to their own funding channels, and that is the way they wanted it.......and again, you have to remember, or learn one thing, Bin Laden's status in those days was greatly enhanced by MYTH in the 90's compared to his actual contributions in those days....

So, to repeat....The U.S. never, ever trained Bin Laden. Ever. Period. As has been implied or charged on this thread. We can go round and round, but I know I have facts and truth on my side.

P.S....You can not possibly be dismissing the 9/11 Commission report finding...but if so, you can not dismiss the finding of countless others who had similar findings...you can choose to "believe" differently, but I am confident that if you were presented with the facts, and the proper material, you would think differently, despite your pre-conceived ideas.....feel free to pick up Bergen's book as a starting point, as I already recommended...and can recommend a host of others as well if you wish.

Thanks for the distraction, because I am going to put my foot through the screen soon watching this Yankee game

yeah i will pick it up. The first thing I said was that i do not think we trained him but just us being there helped him. Regardless this has nothing to do with Bush/9-11 or anything.

[igloo]

yeah i will pick it up. The first thing I said was that i do not think we trained him but just us being there helped him. Regardless this has nothing to do with Bush/9-11 or anything.

I would have responded quicker, but my foot is still stick in the TV after A-ROd grounded into a DP in the ninth

[destruction]

burp

[drlogic]

I would have responded quicker, but my foot is still stick in the TV after A-ROd grounded into a DP in the ninth

lol

don't sweat it....Yanks are always good. Next year, PAPA!