DVD MIXING (article on DJmag.com) Â

[Guest JMT]

i have text message capabilities on my phone, (lord knows i abuse my text limit every month)

its a cool id what you are saying, but i think it would be abused. personally, i would rather just relax, enjoy the music and visuals, than have the TRL style ticker going all night. it might be too much of distraction, and might eventually get out of hand if too many people use it.

[Guest endymion]

it might be too much of distraction, and might eventually get out of hand if too many people use it.

That's exactly what I'm worried about. I personally feel all speedy and distracted whenever my television lands on TRL. That's why I'm concerned about picking an appropriate vibe to try this with, I don't think that it would work with just any random party and any random DJ.

[Guest pod]

I'd imagine that is why a screener would be needed of sorts, okaying messages that get routed to the projectors. If the DJ doesn't like requests, they don't show up on the screens.

It's an optional thing, I'm sure some will have something like it, and some won't. Frankly I'm not a fan of requesting stuff from club DJs...I love the surprise of hearing a track unexpectedly, adds to the thrill. If I want to hear a specific track, I'll get it myself.

[Guest endymion]

I don't imagine it being used for requests that much. It's just communication, use it for whatever you want. I imagine most texts to look like: "YOU ARE BLOWING THE ROOF OFF OF THIS PLACE FLOWERPOT!!!"

Somebody wants to look like a dorkwad by requesting some specific remix of some specific track to make the DJ think they're cool, that's their problem. You don't like requests, ignore them. Laugh at them. Make fun of the people in witty ways that entertain them.

Some DJ's hide behind the decks, others like to interact. This is a tool for enabling two-way communication for the ones who like to interact, not just a wireless track requst form.

[Guest pod]

I'd flash back a message Hey +13054909999, if you want requests go to Cafe Iguana. 8)

[Guest saintjohn]

For DJ's on a lower level who are not true party leaders, I think that tech assistance could be helpful.

while i think this idea has some potential uses, i expect that the people who would be most likely to "advise" a dj would actually be the least qualified to offer suggestions. the reason that dj booths tend to be elevated is so that djs can see and read the whole crowd. patrons on the dancefloor (or worse, sitting at the bar) have limited perspectives, and may think that everyone is loving those hard house tracks, when, in fact, it's just a small circle of drunk friends who are into it.

also, in my experience, requests are made for all of the wrong reasons. some people just want an excuse to talk to the dj, because they think it's cool or whatever, and the actual request is just a formality; others are motivated by alcohol-enhanced ego - "i could be a dj, too" - and tend to reflect a limited understanding of the dj's art; a surprisingly large percentage of requests seems to be the result of psychotic episodes and/or bad, bad drugs - "i swear, dude, if you play 'enter sandman,' this place will go off."

finally, because "lower level" djs wouldn't have anyone to screen audience input, i expect the usual result would be more of the absurd and inane requests that they already get, plus anonymous insults and death threats for not playing "the hamster dance."

[Guest saintjohn]

sorry this is drifting so far off-topic, but i'd like to share some of the typical comments, questions, and "requests" that djs get:

play something we can dance to.

i've got that new missy elliot remix (note: from two years ago) in my car. if i bring it to you, will you play it?

i don't know the name of the track i want to hear. can i look through your records?

do you have that song that goes "la la la, la la la la"?

we're about to leave. can you play my request right away?

can you fix the lights? they're in my eyes.

play something by madonna. (note: this is by madonna)

can i put my purse back there?

can't you play something besides techno?

it's my friend's birthday. can i get on the mic?

wow, i didn't know they still made records. why don't you use cds?

wow, i didn't know djs were still spinning cds. why don't you get final scratch?

(okay, i made up that last one)

[Guest endymion]

These points are all completely true, I totally agree. I am of the opinion that a few of those are actually real useful messages to a DJ. "Play something we can dance to!" is a useful message. If you get a few of those then you might have a chance to recover from a bad vibe before you clear the floor.

You guys see it as nothing but a request line, I don't. I see it as a net forum like this one. When people in this forum interact with DJ's they have all kinds of things to say other than 'play more of XXXX'. Certain bigheads will always think that they know better than the DJ what needs to be happening and those assholes will always pipe up. There are lots and lots and lots of other useful things that could be passing in communication between a crowd and a DJ other than requests. Those are the things that I am interested in. Any DJ would would truly be insulted by somebody texting "PLAY FREE BIRD!!!" to him is not a DJ who would be ideal for experimenting with this concept.

I look to the interactivity of Pete Tong or Seb Fontaine's shows on Radio One as examples of positive use of communication. Those shows are very TRL-like, yet most of the communication doesn't involve requests.

Here's how I see it. In the 70's, FM radio jocks had the decision to pick up the phone during their radio shows. Some didn't like communicating with their audience. Some really did. The ones who chose to pick up the phone dealt with an awful lot of people calling to ask them to play Free Bird. Lots of other interesting communication went on also. It's the other stuff that I want to enable, and I don't think that a few requests are going to hurt the process that much, they are just noise. There will also be a lot of "YO YOU DA BOMB!!" messages that are essentially noise. It's all communication. Communication can lead to an emotional connection and a sense of personal involvement as opposed to just passive listening, and that's a good thing.

A DJ who was skilled at using this technology and who was a true party leader could keep things from turning into just a request line by actively communicating. A DJ is supposed to command the room, right? What could a DJ do to keep people entertained? All kinds of shit, DJ's are entertainers. Their problem, I make the computers go.

[LESjunkie]

This thread is intense. Not to mention, this thread alone really highlights what an awesome group of minds and talented people we have that contribute. Really, thanks for posting all of this information...

As you all know, when I'm doing my cardio routine at the gym I blast my music in my headphones (as Im sure most of you do) and pretend like I am a DJ on stage for a couple of hours. (as Im sure a few of you do). Anyway, I've always thought that visual elements will someday be spearheaded by a DJ and it will take off from there.

It will take off, i have no doubts in that. Now, here is an argument I'd like to raise.

You all provide stellar technical information here, and throughout I constantly had ONE question that lingered...Now I can offer some of MY expertise ;D

In general, any image that you didnt record with your own source of video recording technology cannot be used by you. (Well you can, but if the owner get's pissed they can sue you and I think a DJ would give enoguh exposure that it would get back to the owner) These DJ's would have to hire crews and producers to go out and shoot specifics--- for example if Max Graham decided that for a new track he wanted to show people dancing in the rain in the streets, Max couldnt just go to the video store and rent a movie where people dance in rain and use that footage. He'd have to pay a handsome sum for it or go out and shoot it himself. ALMOST ANYTHING that wasnt recorded by you...you have to pay to get the rights to use it...and more often than not, you get those rights based upon the amount of seconds that you use of the other persons footage, AND it is a one time deal. If you want to use it 4 times, you pay 4 times. It is insane how expensive it is. So, A DJ is surely going to need a producer AND a photographer (video), or a photo-producer to get them the visual elements. Then they'd need to edit a piece together----which is also very expensive...especially if they do the best...It is standard to record on mini-DV or betacam, then you have to digitize into a machine (I use AVID) and then edit with an editor. All this costs SO much $$$$...We pay freelance producers upwards of $700 a day, the cameraman and soundguy get roughly $1200 for a full day shoot (that's only 1 day!) and an editor gets roughlt $175 a hour. That is how expensive making television is. Granted, my environment is a bit extreme in pricing since the material we put out is either on network news or for corporate clients (those pharmaceutical clients can pay the bill considering the price gouging they do with their patented drugs) It doesnt have to be this expensive though. If I were producing some video elements for a DJ I'd shoot on mini-dv, use a firewire between my laptop and dig the shots from the mini dv into my laptop and use Premier to edit my piece---this would cost so much less. Sarah, what did you use for your production?

So for all these DJs that want to incorporate video...unless it is animation (come on! that is cheesy....let's move on) than it will be interesting to see how DJ's incorporate the V into the A! It is exciting, and something that I really would love to be a part of, and to be honest, I've been pretty much convincing myself that would be my next step as a producer. I was actually thinking along the lines of pitching DVD ideas to DJ's...but with this new technology I think that the spontaneity of intense video in your eyes and music in your ears----that'a a whole other trippy level that I'd love to see happen. Music already has a way of lifting us up and giving us a surreal feeling, I think that is only half of what we can do with dance music---

When Nick Warren was here last November at Limelight, he has some cool videos playing, one in particular---at a beautiful melodic point in one of the trax he was playing, the panoramic video screen below the DJ booth became lit up with thousands of Buddha worshipers praying in this big field, twirling their fingers in the blue sky---it was powerful, and I think a small hint of what's to come.

Dimaggio. You have a mini-dv, I am a producer. We live in New York City. you know all the DJ's. We both are relentless when it comes to creativity and work ethic and our love for this scene=== We should really talk about this==

[LESjunkie]

Nick pointed out that some DJ's would be insulted by people making requests.  I see his point with true party leaders like Tiesto or somebody like Sander Kleinenburg who picks his track lists months in advance.  

Not sure about Sander, but Tiesto does not choose his track lists months in advance. He has a few openers and closers chosen, but for the most part, the rest is spontaneous. He is very adamant about making a show a "journey" and he bases that upon the way the crowd is responding. Not only have I asked him this and published this here on CJ, but also I've watched him do it.

As for the whole crowd/people at home interacting...I see that more as distracting than complementing. And we all know that most of the people who sit there texting in clubs or the ones at home on tranceaddict or clubplanet are big losers and wouldnt post anything quality anyway! I could just see it now.... OMG IM DYING! TIESTO, PLEASE SIGN MY BALLS! Cooljunkie is really one of the only sites where the majority of people who post are intelligent, successful people who actually say things worth mentioning.

[LESjunkie]

Quick poll just over the people who are interested in this thread:

Do you feel that you would benefit more from a set that had MTV TRL style feedback going on, or would you rather be passively fed audio-synchronized video?

passively fed? So what about when we watch movies and are deeply moved when music complements the images? Think "Last of the Mohicans" --- at the end, that amazing music that is playing....as she gets jumps off the cliff, and the battle that ensues....think Titanic when she is saying bye to Leo...think how every broadway musical complements images with music...I think that video projections that complements a DJs music would be amazing!! I want to do this!!

It could bring whole new meaning to trax....titles would suddenly make a whole lots more sense? Take Tiesto - Flight 643. Ummm most people dont know what the hell that means...

Tijs thought of that title as he was nervously approaching New York for a gig a couple of years ago. His flight # to NY was 643. Now, im sure there were other incidentals that went int the making of the track, but there is so much he could do with that video wise--- beauty shots of nyc, record him or someone going to the airport in breda, a shot of the gate announcing flt 643 to nyc....then cut to a shot recorded on mini dv in a car going thru the midtown tunnel, take go thru the tunnel recording the lights whizzing by and other cars, get to the end and right before getting out to the tunnel cut to wide intense panoramix shots of nyc, cutting to close ups of tall buildings and moving shots and MTV style shooting of clubbers in line and dancing inside---(MTV style shooting is also called Dutch, which is kind if ironic here)

uhhh the possibilities are endless and farrrrr from passive in my opinion!

[Guest endymion]

Dimaggio. You have a mini-dv, I am a producer. We live in New York City. you know all the DJ's. We both are relentless when it comes to creativity and work ethic and our love for this scene=== We should really talk about this==

I agree completely. More information: I also have years of video production experience, Sarah is extremely interested in developing more film and video production experience, we know all the DJ's down here, and we have an extremely good intellectual property attorney on our side who can help us to make sure that we have all of our releases and other agreements in a row so that it's all legal.

We also know a lot of producers between us all. We have the beginnings of what it would take to create one of the first ever music labels that releases music on DVD. For the next couple of years P2P theft rates would be lower for an audio+video DVD-only music label. That trend won't continue forever and in a couple of years it will be just as easy to rip off our DVD's as it is now to rip off MP3's. We could make some money, have some fun and make history in the short term tho.

The attorney and I are on board if you are, let's file a company and get a bank account.

[Guest JMT]

As for the whole crowd/people at home interacting...I see that more as distracting than complementing. And we all know that most of the people who sit there texting in clubs or the ones at home on tranceaddict or clubplanet are big losers and wouldnt post anything quality anyway! I could just see it now.... OMG IM DYING! TIESTO, PLEASE SIGN MY BALLS! Cooljunkie is really one of the only sites where the majority of people who post are intelligent, successful people who actually say things worth mentioning.

this is completely true, and exactly why i would lean against crowd interraction during a live set.

[Guest endymion]

One goal of mine at the moment is to find a crowd, DJ and vibe where interactivity would be appropriate and cool rather than a distraction. I agree that I don't want to see TRL feedback screens at every club that I go to, just like I don't want to see Fantasia computer animations playing in the background at every event that I attend.

I have been at plenty of live shows where the screens were playing video shot right there, live. I'm imagining a really inclusive, welcoming vibe where the video screens around the club are playing live video shot by somebody like you, Evan. You would focus on the DJ for a while, then we would flip the screen to a TRL feedback chat room with an SMS gateway for a few minutes while you wander out of the DJ booth into the crowd. You find some hot, fun people in the crowd, you shoot them live and they show up on the screen like at a football stadium. You go to reposition yourself, we go back to the TRL screen.

If you simulcast that, and I'm looking into ways to make that happen, then you could simulcast the video and you could provide a way for people at home to feed back to the TRL board. It's a live dance music version of TRL and I just feel in my heart that there is a market for it if you can find the right crowd, vibe, and DJ.

As for canned on-the-beat video, I have fantasized about doing that for years. PVD's Global DVD had me talking about the logistics of making that happen for months but I couldn't find people who cared. Now that I have found people who care I'm very excited.

Here is the tech that I want to invent: I don't want the video to be synchronized to the beat in the studio, I want a VJ doing it on the dance floor. The VJ could have control over the video selection while the DJ controls audio selection. The output would still be on-the-beat but the experience would be less canned and it gives the VJ more control. The two guys sit side-by-side to make the set work. The way that I imagine doing that is by producing canned video segments that include just a beat. That beat would only get go into the cue headphones on the VJ, nobody else would hear it. He would be responsible for beat-matching to the DJ and the two would have to communicate with each other fairly closely on when and how to handle transitions.

[LESjunkie]

One goal of mine at the moment is to find a crowd, DJ and vibe where interactivity would be appropriate and cool rather than a distraction. I agree that I don't want to see TRL feedback screens at every club that I go to, just like I don't want to see Fantasia computer animations playing in the background at every event that I attend.

I have been at plenty of live shows where the screens were playing video shot right there, live. I'm imagining a really inclusive, welcoming vibe where the video screens around the club are playing live video shot by somebody like you, Evan. You would focus on the DJ for a while, then we would flip the screen to a TRL feedback chat room with an SMS gateway for a few minutes while you wander out of the DJ booth into the crowd. You find some hot, fun people in the crowd, you shoot them live and they show up on the screen like at a football stadium. You go to reposition yourself, we go back to the TRL screen.

If you simulcast that, and I'm looking into ways to make that happen, then you could simulcast the video and you could provide a way for people at home to feed back to the TRL board. It's a live dance music version of TRL and I just feel in my heart that there is a market for it if you can find the right crowd, vibe, and DJ.

As for canned on-the-beat video, I have fantasized about doing that for years. PVD's Global DVD had me talking about the logistics of making that happen for months but I couldn't find people who cared. Now that I have found people who care I'm very excited.

Here is the tech that I want to invent: I don't want the video to be synchronized to the beat in the studio, I want a VJ doing it on the dance floor. The VJ could have control over the video selection while the DJ controls audio selection. The output would still be on-the-beat but the experience would be less canned and it gives the VJ more control. The two guys sit side-by-side to make the set work. The way that I imagine doing that is by producing canned video segments that include just a beat. That beat would only get go into the cue headphones on the VJ, nobody else would hear it. He would be responsible for beat-matching to the DJ and the two would have to communicate with each other fairly closely on when and how to handle transitions.

impressive idea. A quick interjection: I think it would help enormously if the VJ was a major aficionado of the music the DJ was spinning. Recognizing the tracks gives an innate and speedy ability to match the images with the beats....especially in an environment where it would be so spontaneous. When i make highlights reels, i always have to lay music behind the images, and it takes awhile to match it perfectly with an editor.

[Guest endymion]

I agree completely, Evan. I don't think that this idea works with just any random DJ and just any random VJ. They would have to work in teams. The two would have to know each other pretty well. Not just music tastes and favorite tracks, but they would have to get along well enough to be able to stay in constant communication the whole time about where the set is going.

For people who enjoy jam-style music collaboration, this is a whole new way to do that.