What influences your club decisions?

[Guest nickjunkie]

We've done some nights at big venues but with poor DJ's, and put hundreds of people in. We've also done some at lesser venues with great DJ's, and only had a small amount of people.

What makes you go out? DJ / cover (or no cover) / open bar / venue?

[Guest pod]

DJ first...

Venue second...

Open bar's not an issue for me really, since I usually have a few drinks before I go out...but it's nice if the club has open bar.

I'll put up with a mediocre venue if the DJ is excellent, i.e. if you put Danny Howells in the Blue Room at Level, I'd still go, but probably bitch all night about how much better it would be at Space.

For Miamians in general, it's all about the venue. People go to crobar to be seen, Space because there's nothing like it in the country, and Maze because of their recent generosity.

This board's populace is a bit more intelligent than that though, we'll go anywhere if a great DJ's on the decks

[Guest coach]

Yeah, I don't think this board is a good cross-section of the club-going public. In general, the mass-market club-goer will make their decision on one or more of four criteria.

1) Number ONE is advertising. It's all about the marketing, people. Why do people turn out to a big venue with a mediocre DJ? Probably because the big venue has more to spend on advertising than the small. It happens over and over in all different businesses, the one with the most advertising wins, notwithstanding quality. I mean, anybody *really* think that Coke tastes better than, say, battery acid? No, but they do the most advertising, and that's where the people go. You may make your own theories on why it works that way, but it is the empirical evidence that it does.

2) It's where "everyone" goes. This is kind of a corollary to number one, (big ads = lots of people) but it is also related to personal recommendations. People go where their friends go. So, if my friend, says, "Dang! You HAVE to check out Club U!" Then I probably will, just on his recommendation.

3) Reviewer recommendations. If "Street" says everyone is going to Club U, then so will everyone who wants to be where "everyone" is. Or, if "Sun Post" says that Club Y is the new hip place, then that will influence lots of people.

4) Music. Of couse, people rarely go to clubs that play music they don't like, but as long as it is within their genre, it really doesn't matter who is playing. Unless it is a huge name (DJ or Band), in which case see numbers 1 and 2.

Then there are the more informed clubbers like most of the folks on this board. They know the local DJs and have their favorites. They have checked out a wide variety of clubs and know what appeals to them. Advertising will have little effect on them. Reviews just amuse them. And big-name DJs usually just annoy them. There is little you can do to influence whether or not they come to your events. Usually they will come for a DJ they like. And they will often come out to support their friends. Fortunately, I would venture to say that most of the folks on this board would consider the Cool Junkie crew "friends", so they will most likely support you just from a post on the board.

Oh yeah, and anybody who thinks that they are in marketing and has not read "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" should have their license revoked. It is pretty much the best marketing book around. Knowing those laws can pretty much save your life, as well as your stomach.

Sinc.

[Guest pod]

I get that a lot from people I know. I bring them out to parties that I like to cover and go to, and they get all weirded out when the club is only half full or less...

I like to see a club full, down here it means someone I know is doing well, but what I don't like is overfull, I hate it when clubs just stuff people in...

But you've got us typed pretty well, coach...most of us are very informed clubgoers. We don't go to a party just because Power 96, The Street, or Ocean Drive Magazine says it's the place to be...as a matter of fact, we're more than likely not to go based on that information, since we know the sort of crowds that read/listen to each media outlet. That's why messageboards are so good for "people like us"...I know if Nick goes out and posts "Hey, the Saturday party at Club X is a great place to go, DJ Y is on the decks, and the crowd is fantastic..." I know I'll go and cover it, since I know Nick, and trust his judgement in such matters...I don't know the club reviewer for The Street, or Ocean Drive's various flacks, for all I know they just got here from Tennessee, and would be floored by a rathole like Club Deep....other side of the coin, if Nick or anyone else on this board says "Man, the crowd sucks, the DJ plays hip-hop, and the venue smells like piss..." I'm not going to go since I loathe hip-hop and I'd rather not hang out in a place that smells like piss.

The masses though, are another story. As Tommy Lee Jones said in MiB I, "People are stupid..." and they are...especially in Miami, there's the herd mentality in full effect. I've seen perfectly intelligent people go to some very low-caliber events (*cough*hip-hop*cough*) just because there's a crowd there...

[TufTribe]

1) Always has been and always will be about the music!

More importantly, new tunes or styles of music. I hate going to a club week after week and hearing the same boring tunes. You hear the same tunes playing everywhere in Miami and eventually the DJ's wear out those tunes so much that you hate it. I want to look forward to going to a club, hoping for a new experience. If the music keeps changing week to week than the experience changes. DJ's need to buy more vinyl and keep it fresh & funky. And why not try out different styles like Techno, Electro, etc. Something different, something new. A lot of people, like myself, get bored easily. We need change.

2) The people make the difference also. Some places have the nicest, friendliest, coolest people and some have the most arrogant, fake, stupid people. Even if the music is right, its hard to chill in a place that feels uncomfortable because of the people. If the vibe sucks, the entire experience sucks.

3) Of course, FREE cover and/or alcohol is always attractive. If its FREE, its me!

4) Venue is very important. You have to feel comfortable with your surroundings. I love places that change their decor because you never get bored with the same look. Crobar is a great example! And we hear that Nerve is following in that trend! Different colors, themes, entertainment will always keep you guessing. It feels like you are entering a new club every week or month.

;D ;D

[Guest digital7]

what are you guys talking about? I go to the clubs to get bloody pissed!

[Guest nickjunkie]

v. cool - i love having a message board full of intelligent responses. And alcoholics (D7)

Coach - you're right on the money, although believe me in this town an open bar can be worth more than a New Times ad (see the attendance at Maze for their 10-2 open bar).

[Guest sarahcj]

I don't know about everyone else but I personally don't like a club that has too much door drama.

I know that here in Miami at any good club there is always going to be lots of people waiting to get in.

But if I have had to stand there for 45 mins getting pushed and shoved even when I am on the guestlist and have door staff be blatently rude to me then it takes more than an open bar to cheer me up.

That said good music, friends, fantastic lighting, decor and sound, nice drinks and room to dance always makes me happy!

8)

[Guest coach]

I think that open bar is more about the locals than the out-of-towners, though. Although, to be honest, it seems to me that if you have to give away your primary product, perhaps you've done something wrong somewhere else. Look at Automatic Slims. Not really my kind of place, but they do pack it out and they don't give away alcohol, to my knowledge.

BUT, in all my lecturizing, I did forget to actually answer the question, what makes *me* come out to an event. Note that these are not in any particular order.

1) Value. That is, I don't mind paying a cover, as long as I think I'm getting my money's worth. I've paid five bones to get in a total dive because they had some kick-ass music going, and I've made an effort to get to some really nice clubs before midnight so I don't have to pay cover because I just wanted to hang. I don't expect good quality for free, but I don't expect to pay for crap, either.

2) Friendly crowd. (Yeah, I know, why did I move to SoBe if I'm looking for a friendly crowd, right?) I like to be around people who are having fun and not afraid to show it. Sure, sometimes it's fun to go to those places where people just go to be seen, but that gets old pretty quick. I want to go to places where people are dancing around and laughing and just generally having a great time. I think this all starts with the staff. While I do like a decent door policy, I don't think this has to be carried out by giant, mean-looking bruisers. You start with a fun door-person and then keep that theme into the club where the bartenders are all smiling and friendly and the DJ is really working the crowd well. If you foster a fun atmosphere with your staff, that will really make a big difference.

3) Music, of course.

4) Crowd. I don't mean to sound shallow, but one of the quickest turn-offs for me is what I call a "sausage party". This is where there is a straight guy-girl ratio of higher than 3 to 1 and all those guys are just trying to dance up on the half dozen girls who are actually there. It just becomes an ugly scene. Nothing ruins a night more than desperation. Other than that, I am a big people watcher. So an interesting mix of clubbers is always a plus.

5) Friends. Particularly "in the biz" friends because I always like to support my friends. If I know somebody involved in throwing the party, I am way more likely to know. If I know somebody who works at a particular club, I am way more likely to go. If some of my friends are going to a particular club, I am way more likely to go, even if it is not a place that I would normally visit. And if, after a few visits, I am treated like a "regular" by the staff, I am WAY more likely to continue to patronize that establishment.

6) Atmosphere. Very important. Sometimes I want to go to someplace that is high energy where everybody is screaming and going crazy. Sometimes I just want to go someplace to chill and hang, where you can talk and people-watch. And sometimes I want to go to someplace dark and depressing. Then every now and again I just get the urge to go to some dive where there are the newest, freshest DJs who are just trying to get started.

Whoa! "Help! I'm talking and I can't shut up!" I guess that's about it for now.

Anyway, hope to see ya'll out!

[TufTribe]

I couldnt agree more with Sarah!! Although I have become very immune to it, door drama really SUCKS. And Miami has some of the rudest door staff I have ever seen. It really doesnt make any sense to me. Why be rude? Why make us stand in line for that long? And why do they think they are such bad asses and better than everyone?

45 minutes in line really kills your buzz too. Most of us have had many alcoholic beverages or ??? by the time we get to the doors of the club, right? The last thing I want to do is stand in a line with a bunch of other f**ked up people sweating and talking crap.

They should just make all clubs no cover, walk right in!! This is another reason I LOVE Lime Bar!!

;D : :)

[TufTribe]

Preach brotha Coach, preach!!! Dont stop bro, I think we are all liking your ideas and comments here!

I totally agree with you also, especially about the value. I dont mind standing in line for 45 minutes as long as its worth it. There have been many disappointing nights in this town after waiting in line forever or paying the cover, or both.

A fun door-person!! Yes! A fun door-person that actually welcomes you to the club and is happy to see you!! Is that too much to ask for??

Club Owners should take note here. We are tired of all the DRAMA. We, the paying customer, demands a positive club experience! No more BS. At least provide us with a friendly staff and no waiting in lines.

PLEASE........

???

[Guest nickjunkie]

Amen - isn't it always so much of a better vibe when the door person is cool? You walk in the place feeling good and ready to party (and spend on drinks).

Drama at the door puts you on a downer before the night begins = less spending right?

I kinda like the approach of Space 34 - 4 huge doors. Helps cut down the wait, and the sooner people are inside, the sooner they're spending $$$

[omarg]

Its good to see that theres some level headed, nice people on this board. Where are you all when I go out? Anyways, I agree with most of whats been said.

For starters, I am a big fan of championing local and famous djs. If a set is good, its good and that the bottom line.

But I think that of equal value to a good night out is the crowd, and the vibe. Feeling comfortable and relaxed when you are out is the product of being surrounded by chill people, not uptight angry people like you see out often at the clubs. I say this only based on comparisons with places Ive lived, namely London, and Boston. In comparison clubbers in these cities are much more civil. I dont remember having elbows shoved in my back clubbing at places like The End in london, while if you go to Crobar it is to be expected every five seconds as if it is acceptable behavior.

Oh yeah, last two factors: Sound System Is KEY. Miami is generally ahead of the curve on this one.

Last of all: drink prices! Sure you can get in for free but then you get fleeced at 10 bucks a pop. (and dont forget that they often give you only half a red bull at that with your vodka).

My Solution: Screw those ubre-greedy club owners until they set reasonable prices, and bring your own flask full of whiskey! It works like a charm and leaves you full and satisfied. Unfortunately this is a drastic measure that could easily be avoided if these places were more reasonable in their policies.

--OG

[Guest coach]

Heh, thanks for the kind words, I'm glad I struck a chord with people. What I think is hysterical in a sad way is when you have more door people than you have people in line. I'm sorry, but if I was the boss, I would fire so many of these door folks so fast it'd make their head spin. Actually, that's not true. I'm sure those guys are perfectly nice people who have been told by some clueless manager to act that way.

I mean, these are basically your ambassadors to the world, people. These are the *first* people that your patrons see when they come to your club. They can really set the atmosphere. As I've said before, it just boggles my mind. Think about it, we have a lot of tourists through here, right? You want the first thing for them to see is a bunch of thugs hanging around outside your door. And I'm serious. I have seen *several* clubs where you have a half dozen guys at the door that look like nothing more than mafia goons (at least the movie version). Who wants to go in there? These tourists probably don't have any idea where are the "good" places to go, they are just wandering down Washington looking for someplace fun. And where do they always end up. As far as the locals go, most of them *do* know were the good places are, each according to their own standards.

Personally, if it were me in charge, I wouldn't have door guys at all. I'd have door girls. I want my door people to actually bring people in, not scare them off. Sure, they can still cull the crowd for the clientele you want. Actually, I would think a girl would be better at that, anyway. But mainly, they are more attractive than guys. You gotta have a crowd to do any culling, right? Everybody likes girls. Straight like girls because the are pigs (the guys, not the girls). Gay guys like girls because they often have more in common with them than with straght guys. Straight grls like girls for that same reason. And gay girls like girls because, well, you know.

And that is *particularly* if you want to attract more girls. Having a guy at the door will often discourage girls, unless he is particularly cute and caring, in which case you'll probably scare off all the straight guys. But in an atmosphere where you nearly always have more guys than girls, like the nightclubs, girls will almost *always* prefer a place that has some girls in it. Most girls do not feel comfortable in a room full of (horny, drunk) guys. They feel more comfortable when other girls are around. Girls attract girls (not in that way, you pervs). So, if you have a girl at the door, then the girls who pass by are much more likely to feel comfortable going in since they know at least one of their kind is already there.

I'm not saying that I want to do away with door policies. Not at all. I think it appropriate that high-end venues like Maze, Spi, Level, and Opium have a dress code and a culling policy. Sometimes you want to go out and be amongst people who know how to button a shirt. What I am saying is that you don't have to be a brute about it. You can turn people away without being nasty about it. And as word gets around of your standards, then you will have to turn fewer and fewer away. Of course, sometimes it is nice to throw on your ratty jeans and head to your favorite dive.

Hmmm. Did I get off-topic there?

[Guest nickjunkie]

I agree - plus girls tend to be a little more level headed and less power hungry. Consequently they actually believe you when you say you're on the list...

[TufTribe]

Except for that lovely girl at Crobar, right Nick?? What was her problem that night? Soooooo rude.

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