Marine Massacre in Haditha

[Guest trancepriest]

Seems like the Marines killed 24 civilians in Haditha, Iraq... because one of their own was killed by a road side bomb. I have to say from my experiences this is not unexpected. The Marine corps is a different fighting organization than all the other branches... the indoctrination is different. The types of people to willingly enlist in the Marines are warriors already looking for a war. To be in prolonged combat for such long periods of times brings out the killing instinct that they've been groomed in. And is the very reason why they joined the Marines... to fuck shit up and to kill... kill.... kill. That is one reason why I didn't like this war from the git go. I'm very familiar on exactly what we were unleashing on these people. These guys went in and shot little girls in the head. The following Marines that came in to clean/cover shit up had to deal with brains leaking out of the little girl's head onto their boots.

Killings began after Marine slain

Pentagon sources said the killings began after a roadside bomb killed 20-year-old Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas at 7:15 a.m. on November 19 in Haditha, a city along the Euphrates River in western Iraq.

The Marines originally reported that 15 civilians also died in that blast.

But according to the Pentagon sources' account, the Marines immediately suspected four Iraqi teenagers in a taxi and shot them, along with the driver, when the Marines said they failed to lie on the ground as ordered.

The hunt for the bombers then moved to a nearby house, where seven people -- including two women and children -- were killed. Then eight people, including six women, were shot next door, while women in a third house were not harmed, the sources said. In a fourth house, four men were killed.

Rep. John Murtha, appearing Sunday on ABC's "This Week," alleged a cover-up and said the fallout could be "worse than Abu Ghraib."

[ryan2772]

i've been following this story since it happened....it's horrible

[Guest tres-b]

Before we convict these guys, lets see all the evidence.

[Guest pod]

What Tres said.

It's too easy for "armchair politicians" to hang out our fighting men and women to dry.

[Guest trancepriest]

Before we convict these guys, lets see all the evidence.

What evidence did we get before we invaded Iraq?

What Tres said.

It's too easy for "armchair politicians" to hang out our fighting men and women to dry.

LOL... the military has already done its investigations. These people killed innocent civilians... no guns... no gun fire... no reason at all. They killed em up close and personal... gun shot in little kids heads at close range. You guys that never served in the military may look up to these guys as some type of heroes... call it patriotic deferment for staying home and doing nothing... but fuck that... if you want to feel patriotic join and serve.

[Guest pod]

That Saddam had bad BO and ate kimchee. That's a war crime where I come from.

[ryan2772]

fact of the matter is that like 18 civilians were killed, whether it be collateral damage, or intentional, it's still really sad.

[Guest trancepriest]

fact of the matter is that like 18 civilians were killed, whether it be collateral damage, or intentional, it's still really sad.

24 civilians were killed.... mostly women and children.

[Guest tres-b]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Charges will be brought against U.S. Marines if an investigation into the alleged killing of unarmed Iraqi civilians uncovers wrongdoing, the chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff said on Monday.

Marine Gen. Peter Pace also told CNN that he still did not know why it had taken nearly three months for the Pentagon to find out about the November 19 incident in the Iraqi town of Haditha, in which up to 24 civilians were killed.

"If the allegations as they are being portrayed in the newspapers turn out to be valid, then of course there'll be charges," Pace, the highest ranking U.S. military officer and primary military advisor to the president and defense secretary, said.

Pace said the Pentagon had not found out about the incident until Feb 10.

"We do not know yet why we did not know," he said.

The U.S. military has said 15 civilians were killed in Haditha, about 140 miles northwest of Baghdad. Other accounts put the number at around 24.

A U.S. defense official said on Friday Marines could face criminal charges, possibly including murder, in what would be the worst case of abuse by American soldiers in Iraq since the 2003 invasion.

"I don't suspect anything," Pace said. "I want to wait for the investigation. We will find out what happened and we will make it public, but to speculate right now wouldn't do anyone any good."

Pace, the first Marine to serve as chairman of the Joint Chiefs, said "99.9 percent" of US soldiers in Iraq were conducting themselves with honor and courage.

[Guest saintjohn]

From the Washington Post Op-Ed page:

Mr. Murtha's Rush to Judgment

Sunday, May 28, 2006; B06

A year ago I was charged with two counts of premeditated murder and with other war crimes related to my service in Iraq. My wife and mother sat in a Camp Lejeune courtroom for five days while prosecutors painted me as a monster; then autopsy evidence blew their case out of the water, and the Marine Corps dropped all charges against me ["Marine Officer Cleared in Killing of Two Iraqis," news story, May 27, 2005].

So I know something about rushing to judgment, which is why I am so disturbed by the remarks of Rep. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.) regarding the Haditha incident ["Death Toll Rises in Haditha Attack, GOP Leader Says," news story, May 20]. Mr. Murtha said, "Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood."

In the United States, we have a civil and military court system that relies on an investigatory and judicial process to make determinations based on evidence. The system is not served by such grand pronouncements of horror and guilt without the accuser even having read the investigative report.

Mr. Murtha's position is particularly suspect when he is quoted by news services as saying that the strain of deployment "has caused them [the Marines] to crack in situations like this." Not only is he certain of the Marines' guilt but he claims to know the cause, which he conveniently attributes to a policy he opposes.

Members of the U.S. military serving in Iraq need more than Mr. Murtha's pseudo-sympathy. They need leaders to stand with them even in the hardest of times. Let the courts decide if these Marines are guilty. They haven't even been charged with a crime yet, so it is premature to presume their guilt -- unless that presumption is tied to a political motive.

ILARIO PANTANO

Jacksonville, N.C.

The writer served as a Marine enlisted man in the Persian Gulf War and most recently as a platoon commander in Iraq.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/27/AR2006052700846_pf.html

[Guest trancepriest]

You guys believe in the legal process so much...thats why we are in Iraq with no evidence.

;D

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WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Some members of Congress have been told to brace for the fallout from potential charges of murder and cover-up stemming from an inquiry into an alleged massacre of Iraqi civilians by U.S. Marines, sources say.

Military investigators strongly suspect that what happened in the western Iraqi city of Haditha last November was a rampage by a small number of Marines who snapped after one of their own was killed by a roadside bomb, the sources told CNN.

Pentagon sources told CNN that at least 24 Iraqis were killed.(Watch for specifics on where and when they died -- 1:57)

Sources told CNN on Monday that the investigation is substantially complete, and that charges -- including murder charges -- could be filed sometime in June. And, sources said, investigators have concluded there was a cover-up -- but won't say if it is limited to the handful of Marines who did the killings.

The formal findings of investigations into the matter are several weeks away, said Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Pace cautioned against a rush to judgment.

"There are two ongoing investigations," he told CNN. "One has to do with what happened. The other investigation goes to why didn't we know about it sooner than we knew about it."

Pace said the investigations may not be complete for "a couple of weeks," adding, "We should not prejudge the outcome."

----------------------------------

Lance Cpl. Ryan Briones told the Los Angeles Times that he took pictures of at least 15 bodies and is still haunted by the memory of picking up a young girl who was shot in the head.

"I held her out like this," he said, demonstrating with his arms extended, "but her head was bobbing up and down and the insides fell on my legs."

Briones' mother, Susie Briones, told CNN her son is now suffering from post-traumatic stress.

"It was horrific," she said. "It was a terrible scene. The biggest thing that comes to his mind is the children.

"Since he was part of the cleanup crew, he had to carry that little girl's body, and her head was blown off," she said. "Her brains splattered on his boots. And that is what affected Brian the most."

[Guest JMT]

from the same guy that said our soldiers shouldn't wear camouflage at night because it makes them too hard to see.

[Guest trancepriest]

from the same guy that said our soldiers shouldn't wear camouflage at night because it makes them too hard to see.

Ha Ha... you blaspheming fool. Go practice your sissified patriotism and suck a soldiers cock. What I said was.... soldiers in camouflage uniforms, at night.... patrolling on the roadside... were lighting up Iraqi vehicles for not stopping on time. Obviously this could lead to alot of innocent civilian deaths due to the simple fact that the drivers cannot see the troops patrolling on the side of the road, in camouflage at night.

[Guest JMT]

from the same guy that said our soldiers shouldn't wear camouflage at night because it makes them too hard to see.

Ha Ha... you blaspheming fool. Go practice your sissified patriotism and suck a soldiers cock. What I said was.... soldiers in camouflage uniforms, at night.... patrolling on the roadside... were lighting up Iraqi vehicles for not stopping on time. Obviously this could lead to alot of innocent civilian deaths due to the simple fact that the drivers cannot see the troops patrolling on the side of the road, in camouflage at night.

then there would be no point in bothering to wear it in the daylight either mongo, since the same idiotic logic can apply.

[Guest trancepriest]

then there would be no point in bothering to wear it in the daylight either mongo, since the same idiotic logic can apply.

Sissified Patriot,

We are in Iraq firing at civilian vehicles approaching any troops. Why not tell the entire population not to drive? O I forgot... we are even scared of them walking too. Who told Bush to invade a nation of suicide bombers... you supporters of the war are real smart.

[Guest drlogic]

You guys believe in the legal process so much...thats why we are in Iraq with no evidence.

;D

------------------------------------

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Some members of Congress have been told to brace for the fallout from potential charges of murder and cover-up stemming from an inquiry into an alleged massacre of Iraqi civilians by U.S. Marines, sources say.

Military investigators strongly suspect that what happened in the western Iraqi city of Haditha last November was a rampage by a small number of Marines who snapped after one of their own was killed by a roadside bomb, the sources told CNN.

Pentagon sources told CNN that at least 24 Iraqis were killed.(Watch for specifics on where and when they died -- 1:57)

Sources told CNN on Monday that the investigation is substantially complete, and that charges -- including murder charges -- could be filed sometime in June. And, sources said, investigators have concluded there was a cover-up -- but won't say if it is limited to the handful of Marines who did the killings.

The formal findings of investigations into the matter are several weeks away, said Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Pace cautioned against a rush to judgment.

"There are two ongoing investigations," he told CNN. "One has to do with what happened. The other investigation goes to why didn't we know about it sooner than we knew about it."

Pace said the investigations may not be complete for "a couple of weeks," adding, "We should not prejudge the outcome."

----------------------------------

Lance Cpl. Ryan Briones told the Los Angeles Times that he took pictures of at least 15 bodies and is still haunted by the memory of picking up a young girl who was shot in the head.

"I held her out like this," he said, demonstrating with his arms extended, "but her head was bobbing up and down and the insides fell on my legs."

Briones' mother, Susie Briones, told CNN her son is now suffering from post-traumatic stress.

"It was horrific," she said. "It was a terrible scene. The biggest thing that comes to his mind is the children.

"Since he was part of the cleanup crew, he had to carry that little girl's body, and her head was blown off," she said. "Her brains splattered on his boots. And that is what affected Brian the most."

That almost gives the impression that's what our soldiers do over there. All 150,000 of them.

Wow,,,IMAGINE IF THAT ARTICLE WERE TRUE?

I actually thought all our soldiers were abusing Iraqi prisoners too.

My REAL OUTRAGE is at those terrorist who ruthlessly murder women and children w/ suicide vest bombs, chop off the heads of live human beings on camera, crash airliners packed /w people into buildings packed w/ inoccent people, take children hostage @ schools and randomly murder them, bomb inoccent civilians in trains, buses.

That shit swells my nuts! I just wonder where all the "OUTRAGE"..(lol...more like pseudo-outrage) is when those events (which seem to happen almost on a daily basis) happen? Funny how some people only find time to be "OUTRAGED" when an American comits a crime?

Just an observation....is all.......

TTFN. :]

[Guest trancepriest]

That almost gives the impression that's what our soldiers do over there. All 150,000 of them.

Wow,,,IMAGINE IF THAT ARTICLE WERE TRUE?

I actually thought all our soldiers were abusing Iraqi prisoners too.

My REAL OUTRAGE is at those terrorist who ruthlessly murder women and children w/ suicide vest bombs, chop off the heads of live human beings on camera, crash airliners packed /w people into buildings packed w/ inoccent people, take children hostage @ schools and randomly murder them, bomb inoccent civilians in trains, buses.

That shit swells my nuts! I just wonder where all the "OUTRAGE"..(lol...more like pseudo-outrage) is when those events (which seem to happen almost on a daily basis) happen? Funny how some people only find time to be "OUTRAGED" when an American comits a crime?

Just an observation....is all.......

TTFN. :]

Well we invaded Iraq taking the moral high ground... we didn't go in there saying hey guys we are killers too... just like Saddam Hussein.

[Guest drlogic]

fact of the matter is that like 18 civilians were killed, whether it be collateral damage, or intentional, it's still really sad.

Sad indeed....that's the majority of the folks who've been dying over there (@ the hands of terrorist via suicide bombs or heads being chopped off or bullets to the back of the head,etc..). That sucks!

24 civilians were killed.... mostly women and children.

24 civi's? Women and children? Lions and tigers and bears,,,OH MY!

Were any of them gay or crippled? If so, maybe we can add that to the "action line" and get more folks to dig deep to find some pseudo-outrage?

NOTE: PURE SARCASM on my part. Just trying to make a point.

It's terrible when ANY innocent person dies at the hands of ANYONE. Last I checked, it wasn't the mission of the coalition to murder inoccent....And I DO BELIEVE that is precisely the mission of the terrorists....that is: TO MURDER THE INOCCENT. Maybe if they (the terrorists) started building schools, repairing infrastructure and trying to provide more security, they might just FINALLY stop being ignored by the lazy critic/s.

Mental Note: Like any of this matters? Too political now. Critics just savor the chance 2 complain (cause it's oh so fun and easy to do). Thank goodness the press gets more wrong, than right. If what they wrote were actually true I might just be ashamed of this great country.

PS...I still HATE the terrorists and will be happy when they are all DEAD, DEAD, DEAD! I'm so brave that I'm not afraid to stand up and proclaim it either! I don't care if misguided granola chompin, ass pirates call me a hate monger! Now that's fohk'n patriotic! That's where my anger lies.....How WEIRD, RIGHT? LOL

[Guest BIOBLIZZARD]

God Bless the Dead.........

http://www.break.com/index/memorialday06.html

[Guest drlogic]

Well we invaded Iraq taking the moral high ground... we didn't go in there saying hey guys we are killers too... just like Saddam Hussein.

I shouldn't have to get into a history lesson, but I'll keep it short/sweet.

Actually, we told Saddam he had to dip or we and our friends w/ the unanimous approval of congress and the UN, minus Fra,Grmy & Russia) would remove him.

Saddam broke the rules set by the UN (again)and Ameirca played the lead role of COP to go get him.

Call me crazy,,but WE'RE NOT killers.....They may be some people who do or have done bad things, but that does not define us or what we do. That is, unless you choose to see it that way. It's still the farthest thing from the truth.

Following that same logic:

If a southern man empregnates a minor, are all southerners rapists?

If a black man steals a car, are ALL blacks crooks?

and so on,,,and so on.......

If something wrong happened, I'm sure those found guilty will be held accountable. Just ask those moron's serving time for what they did in Abu Gharib. THAT'S WHO WE ARE! Is that so far fetched?

[Guest saintjohn]

A reporter's shock at the Haditha allegations

By Arwa Damon

CNN

Tuesday, May 30, 2006; Posted: 7:50 p.m. EDT (23:50 GMT)

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- It actually took me a while to put all the pieces together -- that I know these guys, the U.S. Marines at the heart of the alleged massacre of Iraqi civilians in Haditha.

I don't know why it didn't register with me until now. It was only after scrolling through the tapes that we shot in Haditha last fall, and I found footage of some of the officers that had been relieved of their command, that it hit me.

I know the Marines that were operating in western al Anbar, from Husayba all the way to Haditha. I went on countless operations in 2005 up and down the Euphrates River Valley. I was pinned on rooftops with them in Ubeydi for hours taking incoming fire, and I've seen them not fire a shot back because they did not have positive identification on a target. (Watch a Marine's anguish over deaths -- 2:12)

I saw their horror when they thought that they finally had identified their target, fired a tank round that went through a wall and into a house filled with civilians. They then rushed to help the wounded -- remarkably no one was killed.

I was with them in Husayba as they went house to house in an area where insurgents would booby-trap doors, or lie in wait behind closed doors with an AK-47, basically on suicide missions, just waiting for the Marines to come through and open fire. There were civilians in the city as well, and the Marines were always keenly aware of that fact. How they didn't fire at shadows, not knowing what was waiting in each house, I don't know. But they didn't.

And I was with them in Haditha, a month before the alleged killings last November of some 24 Iraqi civilians.

I'm told that investigators now strongly suspect a rampage by a small number of Marines who snapped after one of their own was killed by a roadside bomb.

Haditha was full of IEDs. It seemed they were everywhere, like a minefield. In fact, the number of times that we were told that we were standing right on top of an IED minutes before it was found turned into a dark joke between my CNN team and me.

In fact, when we initially left to link up with the company that we were meant to be embedded with, the Humvee that I was in was hit by an IED. Another 2 inches and we would have been killed. Thankfully, no one was injured.

We missed the beginning of the operation, and ended up entering Haditha that evening. The city was empty of insurgents, or they had gone into hiding as they so often do, blending with the civilian population, waiting for U.S. and Iraqi forces to sweep through and then popping up again.

But this time, after this operation, the Marines and the Iraqi Army were not going to pull out, they were going to set up fixed bases.

Now, all these months later, while watching the tapes, I found a walk and talk with one of the company commanders that was relieved of his duty as a result of the Haditha probe.

After being hit by an IED, his men were searching the area and found a massive weapons cache in a mosque. Although it wasn't his company that we were embedded with, the Marines had taken me to the mosque so we could get footage of the cache.

And so began the e-mails and phone calls between myself and my two other CNN crew members, Jennifer Eccleston and Gabe Ramirez: Do you remember when we were talking with the battalion commander and his intel guy right outside the school and then half an hour later they found an IED in that spot? Do you remember when we were sitting chatting with them at the school? And all the other "do you remember whens."

There was also -- can you believe it? -- the allegations of the Haditha probe.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/05/30/damon.iraq.btsc/index.html

[Guest trancepriest]

^^^^ The soldiers only massacre people sometimes... most of the time they just sodomize them.

PS...I still HATE the terrorists and will be happy when they are all DEAD, DEAD, DEAD! I'm so brave that I'm not afraid to stand up and proclaim it either! I don't care if misguided granola chompin, ass pirates call me a hate monger! Now that's fohk'n patriotic! That's where my anger lies.....How WEIRD, RIGHT? LOL

Join the Marines:

http://www.marines.com/

[Guest swirlundergrounder]

Whatever the verdict may be people the fallout from this will be bad for the effort in Iraq and the view of the U.S and the occupying forces throughout the world....

We'll see what happens in the next few days especially since it is now known that the Pentagon tried to cover this story up...!

[Guest swirlundergrounder]

Before we convict these guys, lets see all the evidence.

Here's some evidence for you to read!!!

On Wednesday, Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., said the accounts are true.

Military officials told NBC News that the Marine Corps' own evidence appears to show Murtha is right.

A videotape taken by an Iraqi showed the aftermath of the alleged attack: a blood-smeared bedroom floor and bits of what appear to be human flesh and bullet holes on the walls.

The video, obtained by Time magazine, was broadcast a day after town residents told The Associated Press that American troops entered homes on Nov. 19 and shot dead 15 members of two families, including a 3-year-old girl, after a roadside bomb killed a U.S. Marine.

On Nov. 20, U.S. Marines spokesman Capt. Jeffrey Pool issued a statement saying that on the previous day a roadside bomb had killed 15 civilians and a Marine. In a later gunbattle, U.S. and Iraqi troops killed eight insurgents, he said.

U.S. military officials later confirmed that the version of events was wrong.

Murtha, a vocal opponent of the war in Iraq, said at a news conference Wednesday that sources within the military have told him that an internal investigation will show that "there was no firefight, there was no IED (improvised explosive device) that killed these innocent people. Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood."

Military officials say Marine Corp photos taken immediately after the incident show many of the victims were shot at close range, in the head and chest, execution-style. One photo shows a mother and young child bent over on the floor as if in prayer, shot dead, said the officials, who spoke to NBC News on condition of anonymity because the investigation hasn't been completed.

One military official says it appears the civilians were deliberately killed by the Marines, who were outraged at the death of their fellow Marine.

“This one is ugly," one official told NBC News.

Three Marine officers — commanders in Haditha — have been relieved of duty, and at least 12 Marines in all are under investigation for what would be the worst single incident involving the deliberate killing of civilians by U.S. military in Iraq.

The Marine Corps issued a statement in response to Murtha's remarks:

"There is an ongoing investigation; therefore, any comment at this time would be inappropriate and could undermine the investigatory and possible legal process. As soon as the facts are known and decisions on future actions are made, we will make that information available to the public to the fullest extent allowable."

Murtha held the news conference to mark six months since his initial call for "redeployment" of U.S. forces from Iraq.

He said U.S. forces were under undue pressure in Iraq because of poor planning and allocation of resources by the Bush administration.

[Guest JMT]

^^^^ The soldiers only massacre people sometimes... most of the time they just sodomize them.

PS...I still HATE the terrorists and will be happy when they are all DEAD, DEAD, DEAD! I'm so brave that I'm not afraid to stand up and proclaim it either! I don't care if misguided granola chompin, ass pirates call me a hate monger! Now that's fohk'n patriotic! That's where my anger lies.....How WEIRD, RIGHT? LOL

Join the Marines:

http://www.marines.com/

throw your fellow brothers under the bus in one post, and promote them in another. your hypocrisy knows no bounds.