Your downtown noise violation update.

[Guest pod]

Background checks? You're right, that would disqualify most of the applicants as they are from rough areas.

However, one point Dade and I debated at the time of this incident, was that if you're caught doing something of this nature, there needs to be some sort of penalty imposed, up to and including removal from the program.

[Guest JustDade]

You're right. Most people probably don't know those names. Why? I don't know. Maybe we don't teach enough of that in schools. It seems to me that I learned it in school but.... What I do know is that Black Americans have been betrayed by the so-called Black Leaders. Where are the MLKs of today? Is Al Sharpton the best that community can do? I don't believe that for a minute. Why is there no public outcry for Al's head on a platter when he wrongly leads the charge against the white kids who did not rape anyone at Duke? Because it is unacceptable to say anything against a black leader even though he is clearly more racist than those he preaches against. Why does the black community call Bill Cosby a sell-out? He has risen from poverty to be immensly successful. He has given back to his community in both time and money, (over $50 million to black colleges alone). But he's hated among inner-city blacks for speaking out against the Hip-Hop culture and its Ebonics and violence. As I said in an earlier post...Hillary Clinton is kicking Obama's ass in black votes because blacks consider Obama too white. Believe me....the white owners of the media outlets are perfectly happy to let Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson speak for Blacks because those two portray the image of blacks in America that fits the white man's agenda. Anyone who thinks that those are the leaders who will help end the race war probably believes Bush is the leader to end the Iraq war. We need black leaders who seek to make things better not ones whose agenda is to inflame already bitter feelings.

[Guest pod]

I had an instructor in college for a photojournalism class. Without sounding too racist, he acted "white". He was actually derided by other blacks for being "too white". A few of the black students in my class called him "Uncle Tom", even.

And this was at an upper-level class at an upper-level private institution.

[Guest RzO]

that interpretation is as close to my sentiments on the issue at hand.

being heavily active in politics, and for the party that represents these folks at 99% (the most loyal political group in the country) i think the al sharpton's are hurting more then helping

not to say him/jackson haven't done anything good, since they have hepled plenty of people.

sometimes there stance, although followed by many is almost going backwards in the scope of race relations in our country

[Guest pod]

Total double standard. If white philanthropists did some of the bad things Al and Jesse did, it'd be all over for them. Al and Jesse have done some very bad things in the past, but they get a pass on those things. Wonder why?

[Guest JustDade]

I forgot to mention that Nocturnal paid for the party to celebrate the opening of the new houses and we all attemded. I believe that should have been enough to immunize us from being robbed by those particular people.

Well yes, okay that's true.

I don't know what Habitat for Humanity can do about it other than what they already do. The structure of the organization is the living embodiment of helping those who help themselves. I always thought that only building houses for people who pay for them was that. Your story illustrates a different side of it, but what liability does Habitat have for your robbery? You think that they should have done background checks when they selected the families? These are families from very rough areas, so a Habitat house is like a halfway house. It's not utopia, it's just the next step up.

If it comes down to Karu & Y versus Habitat for Humanity like Barbarino says then I know which side I'm on. There are enough night clubs already. There are not enough affordable homes.

Of course I think they should have done background checks. I also think it should specify in the contract that they have an obligation to be upstanding members of the community. That's Barbarino's original point; those people did not deserve nor appreciate the help they were given. They spat in the face of everyone who swung a hammer or spent a dime to build those homes. In my opinion they should have been evicted and the homes given to a family that would make those of us who helped them feel proud. YES, HABITAT OWED ME THAT MUCH. I DIDN'T ASK FOR MUCH WHEN I GAVE THAT MONEY TO HABITAT...JUST THAT THEY IN TURN GIVE IT TO SOMEONE WHO WOULD USE IT TO MAKE THEIR LIVES BETTER. THAT'S WHAT THEY PROMISED ME THEY WOULD DO. Instead they gave my money and time to people who shat on the whole thing by ending my donations, getting arrested, and perpetuating the belief that no good deed goes unpunished.

I'll put it this way..... If I were homeless and you offerred me a place to stay would you feel that I had an obligation to meet basic standards of decency? Would you not mind if I sold your sofa while you were at work and pissed on your floor?

These people actually said to my face that they should have been given furniture and computers with the homes and if we had then they would not have had to rob us. The house was not enough?

BTW - Drive by those houses today and see how well they are being taken care of. If someone did that for me I would make sure I showed them I was the right choice by, at least, keeping the house nice.

Like I said. I've swung my last hammer and spent my last dime with them. I continue to support Doctors without Borders, America's Harvest, The One Org, and several other programs where I feel the people who receive my money will use it to better their lives.

[Guest pod]

Unfortunately, you're called to bat for saying this.

I've seen this in certain circles though, where those who have find it easy to preach that we all should give to those less fortunate. It's an admirable thing to be able to do so. I'm not of wealthy means, but when I can, I do give to a few charities here and there, either through money, or sometimes with any special talents I might be able to contribute. On the side, I've shot charity events before, asking no more than maybe transport to and from the event if it is out of my general operating area.

But anyway, I'm digressing a little. I believe the term I'm reaching for is limousine liberal...

[Guest endymion]

Dade, the second you think that somebody "owes" you something for a charitable donation that you made, you've lost sight of what charity is.

The nightclubs and the performing arts center and I-95 are pushing people off of land where they have lived for 150 years, but everybody here seems to agree that nobody "owes" them anything for that. Why should anybody "owe" you for making a tax-deductible charity donation?

I totally understand your frustration but this whole idea that Habitat for Humanity has become the enemy of nightlife is really alarming. Maybe you should direct your hostilities instead at the Miami-Dade Housing Agency, who have exacerbated the problem by failing to deliver urgently-needed affordable housing after spending tens of millions of dollars. The Habitat homes were the only homes built, so any crime from 'the projects' will be from Habitat homes. That's not the fault of Habitat for Humanity, it's the fault of the housing agency for failing in their mission and it's the fault of the other developers, other than Habitat, who embezzled the money instead of building houses.

sometimes there stance, although followed by many is almost going backwards in the scope of race relations in our country

Reality check: Al Sharpton does not do more to keep the black man down than guys like Barbarino who run around deriding "Shawana" and her 'dozen kids' who deserve to be homeless because they can't pull themselves over the poverty line without assistance. Or guys like Barbarino who think that upscale lounge nightclubs are more important to a city than affordable housing. Or guys like Barbarino who think that black families "don't deserve" assistance even from private charities, even when they have to raise their own money to pay for the houses.

[Guest addictedtospace]

Dade, the second you think that somebody "owes" you something for a charitable donation that you made, you've lost sight of what charity is.

The nightclubs and the performing arts center and I-95 are pushing people off of land where they have lived for 150 years, but everybody here seems to agree that nobody "owes" them anything for that. Why should anybody "owe" you for making a tax-deductible charity donation?

I totally understand your frustration but this whole idea that Habitat for Humanity has become the enemy of nightlife is really alarming. Maybe you should direct your hostilities instead at the Miami-Dade Housing Agency, who have exacerbated the problem by failing to deliver urgently-needed affordable housing after spending tens of millions of dollars. The Habitat homes were the only homes built, so any crime from 'the projects' will be from Habitat homes. That's not the fault of Habitat for Humanity, it's the fault of the housing agency for failing in their mission and it's the fault of the other developers, other than Habitat, who embezzled the money instead of building houses.

sometimes there stance, although followed by many is almost going backwards in the scope of race relations in our country

Reality check: Al Sharpton does not do more to keep the black man down than guys like Barbarino who run around deriding "Shawana" and her 'dozen kids' who deserve to be homeless because they can't pull themselves over the poverty line without assistance. Or guys like Barbarino who think that upscale lounge nightclubs are more important to a city than affordable housing. Or guys like Barbarino who think that black families "don't deserve" assistance even from private charities, even when they have to raise their own money to pay for the houses.

How about the other "private charities"?

WIC

Food Stamps

Medicare

Medicade

Unemployment

Government Cheese

[Guest pod]

If I can interject about all the clubs thus far...they've all taken over exsiting buildings and forced no one off their land.

Space (original): destitute warehouse from the early 20th century

Space (new): destitute warehouse from 1916 inhabited by squatters

Nocturnal: destitute warehouse from the early 20th.

Studio A: same thing

Life/whatever: same

Twilo: same

Goldrush: same

Metropolis, etc...:same

Pawn Shop: it was a pawn shop before it was Pawn Shop.

Karu & Y: Formerly a little-used section of the Ice Palace studio, which was and still is used for photo shoots and movies. You can still use Karu & Y for shooting if your project needs that look.

None of the clubs have forced anyone off their land or property. They took buildings that would have otherwise rotted, bought them up to code at their own cost, and put them to use. In the case of Space and Nocturnal, both buildings looked like a mortar had hit them.

And I don't think Dade is saying Habitat is an enemy of nightclubs, what he's getting at is that their current procedures need to be questioned to avoid incidents like he went through. He could have owned a fruit stand and said the same thing.

[Guest JMT]

Al and Jesse have done some very bad things in the past, but they get a pass on those things.

the crown heights riot, the harlem store killings, the duke lacrosse case, the tawana brawley farce, imus... Al Charlatan is a joke.

and don't forget Jessie and his "Hymietown" comment and using his coalition funds for his pregnant mistress.

[Guest endymion]

How about the other "private charities"?

WIC

Food Stamps

Medicare

Medicade

Unemployment

Government Cheese

Those are public welfare programs, not private charities. That was my point. Barbarino has some standing to oppose welfare since he pays for it. Habitat for Humanity is not a government welfare program, it is a private charity.

[Guest pod]

Yep, no one dares mention those in mainstream media. I remember from when I was a kid, the whole Brawley case...funny that down the road, no one else does.

[Guest endymion]

And I don't think Dade is saying Habitat is an enemy of nightclubs

Barbarino is. And he's using Dade's story to back his position.

[Guest addictedtospace]

If I can interject about all the clubs thus far...they've all taken over exsiting buildings and forced no one off their land.

Space (original): destitute warehouse from the early 20th century

Space (new): destitute warehouse from 1916 inhabited by squatters

Nocturnal: destitute warehouse from the early 20th.

Studio A: same thing

Life/whatever: same

Twilo: same

Goldrush: same

Metropolis, etc...:same

Pawn Shop: it was a pawn shop before it was Pawn Shop.

Karu & Y: Formerly a little-used section of the Ice Palace studio, which was and still is used for photo shoots and movies. You can still use Karu & Y for shooting if your project needs that look.

None of the clubs have forced anyone off their land or property. They took buildings that would have otherwise rotted, bought them up to code at their own cost, and put them to use. In the case of Space and Nocturnal, both buildings looked like a mortar had hit them.

And I don't think Dade is saying Habitat is an enemy of nightclubs, what he's getting at is that their current procedures need to be questioned to avoid incidents like he went through. He could have owned a fruit stand and said the same thing.

Don't forget sales tax, property tax generated by clubs. The 500-1000 employees that work at the clubs. The work for all the tax cab drivers, roach coach lady, parking meters, Pops indigent, mobile car wash, etc...

[Guest pod]

Good example there. Pops is a "local" that is helped out enormously by the clubs themselves.

[Guest JustDade]

Dade, the second you think that somebody "owes" you something for a charitable donation that you made, you've lost sight of what charity is.

The nightclubs and the performing arts center and I-95 are pushing people off of land where they have lived for 150 years, but everybody here seems to agree that nobody "owes" them anything for that. Why should anybody "owe" you for making a tax-deductible charity donation?

I totally understand your frustration but this whole idea that Habitat for Humanity has become the enemy of nightlife is really alarming. Maybe you should direct your hostilities instead at the Miami-Dade Housing Agency, who have exacerbated the problem by failing to deliver urgently-needed affordable housing after spending tens of millions of dollars. The Habitat homes were the only homes built, so any crime from 'the projects' will be from Habitat homes. That's not the fault of Habitat for Humanity, it's the fault of the housing agency for failing in their mission and it's the fault of the other developers, other than Habitat, who embezzled the money instead of building houses.

sometimes there stance, although followed by many is almost going backwards in the scope of race relations in our country

Reality check: Al Sharpton does not do more to keep the black man down than guys like Barbarino who run around deriding "Shawana" and her 'dozen kids' who deserve to be homeless because they can't pull themselves over the poverty line without assistance. Or guys like Barbarino who think that upscale lounge nightclubs are more important to a city than affordable housing. Or guys like Barbarino who think that black families "don't deserve" assistance even from private charities, even when they have to raise their own money to pay for the houses.

OK...When a charity organization takes my money they owe me something for sure. They owe it to me to use my money in a responsible way. They owe it to me to spend my money wisely. They owe it to me to use my money to help those whom they claim to be helping. None of the above happened. In fact what they did reinforces Barbarino's point. They gave my money to scumbag thieves. They gave my money to mothers who would rather play lookout from the porch of the house I helped pay for while their children rob me instead of making sure their children were doing their homework and working toward a better life. Two of the kids were 13 for God's sake!

You're the only one making this about NIGHTCLUBS VS HABITAT. That's not what anyone else here has been talking about and certainly not me.

As I said, I believe HFH is a good thing in principle but I believe that when you shit on a gift like that you should lose it and someone else, who may actually appreciate it, should get their chance. The idea of some other neighbor welcoming a family like those into their neighborhood only to get robbed is what stops me from supporting them any more.

[Guest endymion]

You're the only one making this about NIGHTCLUBS VS HABITAT. That's not what anyone else here has been talking about and certainly not me.

2. So last week, I'm in Miami for meetings for my job and the Habitat for Humanity wants my company to do a build in over town. So the chick doing the talk, spoke about how they built 50 places in over town and even when they are done HH helps the neighbors with quality of life issues and then she said "and there is a night club keeping everyone awake that will be addressed soon", she was talking about Karu and Y.

BTW, I'm dead against HH, they give houses to poor people who don't deserve them, in fact Dade can tell a great story about why HH is crap. If you want me to build a house, sure I'll help, but I'm not building some poor persons house because they made bad choices in life and don't deserve it, now if it was a veteran or a deceased soldiers family something along those lines, then sign me up, but I'm not going to help Shawanda and her 15 kids to a free house. I know of way more deserving people. IMHO.

So it's HH verse Karu and Y

[Guest musicalmissionary]

I'm interested to know if HFH was responsible for the family selection AND the construction. I know that in many cases... cities have in essence contracted HFH to build homes for families that have filtered their way through public services. Sounds like a possibility in this case. HFH might have built those homes but the city might have filled them.

I refer back to my HFH experience where I personally befriended 5 families that were very worthy and spent over a year trying to qualify and earn their HFH homes.

[Guest CGM54]

I totally agree with Barbarino and Dade on the HH issue. I have spent quite a few of my saturdays swinging a hammer to help the community. Last year I did one of these projects for "shawanda and her 14 kids" litteraly. Her name may not have been Shawanda but she did have 12 kids and over 60 grandkids. I know this because 1 and I repeat one of those grandkids showed up to help and told us her grandmothers story. This disgusted me that only one could take time to help thier grandmother, I would do anything for mine. Now I know not teveryone could e there ut out of a total of 75 kids and grandkids only one showed up.

Then there was the neighorhood people. A barbeque was going on across the street with over 50 people. None of these people othered to pitch in for this poor old woman, just us "Uncle Toms".

I do not put my time in these areas anymore. I do many things for charity, I choose not to help people who A)choose not to help themselves Expect Charity C) Do not make the most of what they are given..

My family came over as Irish immigrants with nothing and we turned out quite well. We were also the victims of progress y losing one of our farms in the midwest so a Highway could be built. We moved on. end of rant

[Guest JustDade]

You're the only one making this about NIGHTCLUBS VS HABITAT. That's not what anyone else here has been talking about and certainly not me.

2. So last week, I'm in Miami for meetings for my job and the Habitat for Humanity wants my company to do a build in over town. So the chick doing the talk, spoke about how they built 50 places in over town and even when they are done HH helps the neighbors with quality of life issues and then she said "and there is a night club keeping everyone awake that will be addressed soon", she was talking about Karu and Y.

BTW, I'm dead against HH, they give houses to poor people who don't deserve them, in fact Dade can tell a great story about why HH is crap. If you want me to build a house, sure I'll help, but I'm not building some poor persons house because they made bad choices in life and don't deserve it, now if it was a veteran or a deceased soldiers family something along those lines, then sign me up, but I'm not going to help Shawanda and her 15 kids to a free house. I know of way more deserving people. IMHO.

So it's HH verse Karu and Y

OK....Show me where that becomes HFH VS Nightclubs?? In one paragraph he says that they spoke of Karu & Y at a meeting. In the next paragraph he goes on to offer his personal opinion about HFH as a concept. He asks a question that you have thus far failed to answer; Why is the poor person deserving of this gift simply because they are poor rather than someone who has done "something" to earn it? Why should HFH not give the homes to wounded vets instead? Why not give them to poor kids who have excelled in school? Using my story is actually valid in my opinion as it shows that some people are completely undeserving even though they were poor.

[Guest addictedtospace]

How about the other "private charities"?

WIC

Food Stamps

Medicare

Medicade

Unemployment

Government Cheese

Those are public welfare programs, not private charities. That was my point. Barbarino has some standing to oppose welfare since he pays for it. Habitat for Humanity is not a government welfare program, it is a private charity.

Here read this it talks about all the Government Funding that Habitat receives. So I guess I should at to my list.

http://www.bridgespangroup.org/PDF/FundingGrowth/HabitatforHumanity.pdf

[Guest endymion]

Show me where that becomes HFH VS Nightclubs?? In one paragraph he says that they spoke of Karu & Y at a meeting. In the next paragraph he goes on to offer his personal opinion about HFH as a concept.

Affordable housing residents, represented through Habitat for Humanity, complaining about a night club keeping them awake at night. He asserts that it's not Nocturnal or Space, that it's Karu & Y. If so then residents of the area from across the socioeconomic spectrum are universally complaining about nightclub noise in the area.

In my next paragraph, I'll go on to offer my personal opinion that maligning Habitat for Humanity is stupid. The poverty problem is complex but their mission is simple. When you donated to build those houses you did good because you created more affordable housing. Yes you're in a high-crime area and some of the people who moved in were criminals. The mission is still clear and simple and right.

Habitat for Humanity is the organization involved in the noise debate for the simple reason that they were the ONLY developer tasked by the Miami-Dade Housing Agency that was actually capable of building houses. They represent those residents because they are the only developer who succeeded at putting residents in affordable housing. They should not be maligned for succeeding, and for following through after they place people in homes, as you are suggesting that they neglected to do in the case of your example.

[Guest addictedtospace]

Show me where that becomes HFH VS Nightclubs?? In one paragraph he says that they spoke of Karu & Y at a meeting. In the next paragraph he goes on to offer his personal opinion about HFH as a concept.

Affordable housing residents, represented through Habitat for Humanity, complaining about a night club keeping them awake at night. He asserts that it's not Nocturnal or Space, that it's Karu & Y. If so then residents of the area from across the socioeconomic spectrum are universally complaining about nightclub noise in the area.

In my next paragraph, I'll go on to offer my personal opinion that maligning Habitat for Humanity is stupid. The poverty problem is complex but their mission is simple. When you donated to build those houses you did good because you created more affordable housing. Yes you're in a high-crime area and some of the people who moved in were criminals. The mission is still clear and simple and right.

Habitat for Humanity is the organization involved in the noise debate for the simple reason that they were the ONLY developer tasked by the Miami-Dade Housing Agency that was actually capable of building houses. They represent those residents because they are the only developer who succeeded at putting residents in affordable housing. They should not be maligned for succeeding, and for following through after they place people in homes, as you are suggesting that they neglected to do in the case of your example.

So if they move in a Child Predator, they can later just say not our problems. Our hands are clean because we had good intentions and we meant well.

I personally have volunteered for HH in South Dade, so it's not like I am against them. The thing is you can not blind yourself by the good cause and forget about the consequences.

[Guest pod]

Now, the question remains, is HH complaining or is it potential and existing residents? I think it's just HH.

And yes, I'm pretty much implying that the upper-crust of society bitches about trivial things way too much.