Guest lulamishka Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 enough about safari .. how insane does leopard look? .. Leopard is really nice. I've been testing it for six or eight months, minus Cover Flow and Stacks and some of the other 'secret' features that were announced yesterday. Spaces is extremely nice and better than YouControl Desktops or any of the other third-party virtual desktops. Time Machine simply rocks.A lot of people were really irritated by Apple telling us to use AJAX web apps for building iPhone apps. But that's short-sighted. Apple is effectively replacing WAP/WML with XHTML/CSS/Javascript. That's huge news and a giant leap forward for mobile handset users. I'm personally thrilled because I happen to be sitting on a giant chunk of Perl that turns any computer anywhere in the world into an iPhone app. Wuhoo!It's a good time to be a Mac developer.But what about if you don't have an internet connection? Then what good are these web apps?My coworker & his developer friends are up in arms about this and aren't seeing it as positively as you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lulamishka Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 Heard that Steve Jobs is going to offer the new OSX Leopard to PC users too...taking it into direct competition with Windows Vista.I applaud this ten-fold' date=' its about time Apple breaks the mold and expand their horizons.[/quote']I haven't heard this. Is this true Ryan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan2772 Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 so are you going to update that pic or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMT Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 so are you going to update that pic or what? ha ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest endymion Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 Heard that Steve Jobs is going to offer the new OSX Leopard to PC users too...taking it into direct competition with Windows Vista.I applaud this ten-fold, its about time Apple breaks the mold and expand their horizons.I haven't heard this. Is this true Ryan?Not exactly. Leopard will never run directly on a PC. Way too much hassle for Apple to try to make Leopard work with every cheap Taiwanese video card on the market, and why bother? Apple is a luxury market and they know it. The reason that Apple operating systems and software are light years ahead of the Windows market is that they skip compatibility problems entirely by tightly controlling the hardware that they run on. No surprises on the hardware side means no surprises on the software side, which means no surprises for users. It is not in the best interests of Apple or Mac users to release Leopard for just any random PC out there. That's what Vista is for, with all of its graphics card and hardware update hassles.What is available for PCs (with Windows on them) is Safari, which is the web browser that acts as a platform for AJAX web apps. So now I can write a single Mac app in Perl that runs on Macs through webkit, iPhones, and PCs. But the PC won't be able to run just any arbitrary Cocoa or Carbon Mac app. Apple hardware remains the only hardware that can run all three major operating systems, OSX, Windows and Linux.A lot of developers are really upset about not being able to compile a native app for the iPhone's processor. But take a step back and ask yourself WHY you would ever want to do that. If you do that then you have to deal with distribution. You have to deal with recompiling your app each time they release a new iPhone with a more powerful processor. Since memory is limited on iPhones you can't use universal binaries, you would have to have this app that works on iPhone rev 1, this other app that works on iPhone rev 2, a third for rev 3... SUCK! That sucks both for me and for my customers. No thanks, I just want a clearly-defined GUI language that works. Now I have one and I'm happy.Developers wanted Cocoa and Objective C for iPhone apps. I love those too and I can understand, but since I'm sitting on ten years of research into how to turn any computer anywhere into an AJAX app, I'm pretty freaking happy. My skill set just appreciated in value enormously. ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pod Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 With mobile-devices becoming more web-centric, it makes more sense to do things that way. For example, there's now five major mobile operating systems. Symbian (Nokias, some Motorolas), Windows Mobile, BlackBerry OS, Palm, and now "OS X Mobile". Then there's all the little oddballs like whatever Sidekicks run, that sort of thing. Basically, if they all have some form of standards-compliant web browser, now Ryan, or anyone, can write programs for it, without having to make ports for a minimum of five different mobile OSes if he wants to conquer the market. Just make sure it runs in the browser, and boom, you're done. As for Apple putting OS X on other platforms? Nope. Never gonna happen. Apple is a vertically-integrated hardware/software company. There's a very limited list of hardware that OS X supports. Good in that it minimizes tech support issues. Bad in that sometimes you're forced to buy name-brand components, rather than generics that do the same damn thing. A good example was that one of our G5s here at the HQ didn't have an Airport card, so I thought you could just chuck in any old WiFi adapter and be done with it. No such luck. I could have hacked it in, but the powers-that-be chose to instead go with the proven solution that cost more. Good that it worked, bad that it cost more. But if you're really determined, you can run OS X on commodity PC hardware. There's ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest endymion Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 Basically, if they all have some form of standards-compliant web browser, now Ryan, or anyone, can write programs for it, without having to make ports for a minimum of five different mobile OSes if he wants to conquer the market.For the record, Mozilla's rendering engine (used in Firefox) is still the most standards-compliant around. I have a couple of hacks that I still have to use for Safari for serious CSS layouts. Safari is the second-most-modern browser, and Opera tries hard. I already have a cross-platform application platform available and that's Firefox, and that's why I've always been so into web apps. The new wrinkle is just that the iPhone speaks the same standard language that Firefox does, and it speaks it with its own sexy accent.Microsoft Internet Explorer is dead last in standards compliance. Even version 7 has some astonishing CSS bugs that should not be there considering how huge the development team was. If standards-based AJAX evolves into the de-facto OpenGL of application programming for mobile devices then Microsoft is F.U.C.K.E.D.People who are thinking that these iPhone widgets won't work with no service are just theorizing. Your Dashboard widgets are XHTML-based AJAX web applications just like iPhone apps, but hey surprise they work when your Mac has no net connection. Try it. I mean, they work unless the data that they care about is on the net, in which case it doesn't matter whether we have a Cocoa SDK or an AJAX library. Same result either way. So then why would I want to have to compile a different version of the app for each new version of the iPhone if there's no difference in the end, and why would you as customers want to hassle over dealing with picking and installing the right version? Or the alternative is a universal binary, so each new iPhone processor requires the binary to get a little bit bigger and fatter and take up more room on your iPhone. No thanks just give me a GUI language that works, which I just got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest macboy Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 ReadNot everyone is happy about it. But besides that, check out this paragraph. I always assumed it was some sort of revenue generator but didn't realize how much potential it had:It’s not widely publicized, but those integrated search bars in web browser toolbars are revenue generators. When you do a Google search from Safari’s toolbar, Google pays Apple a portion of the ad revenue from the resulting page," Gruber explains. "My somewhat-informed understanding is that Apple is currently generating about $2 million per month from Safari’s Google integration. That’s $25 million per year. If Safari for Windows is even moderately successful, it’s easy to see how that might grow to $100 million per year or more." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest coach Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 This is why I never never never install those search bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest macboy Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 This is why I never never never install those search bars.Nothing to install, it's built into the browser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest endymion Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 Not everyone is happy about it.That keynote was kind of like the Bible. Everybody who watched it saw something different. Was the LDAP demo running on the same CSS used in the layout for the built-in Address Book app, or is the CSS just lookalike CSS. Or did the intern who wrote the 600-line app in 10 days build a knockoff with a bunch of gifs? Do we get access to the iPhone's look-and-feel CSS or not? Is there even an iPhone look-and-feel CSS package at all? Etc, etc, etc. Every developer who watched came out with a different impression of what he had just seen. We're all learning more this week about those details. Those details are pretty important. People are comparing pixels in the keynote video, it's that ugly at the moment.I personally believed Scott Forstall when he said 'hey look! the LDAP widget looks and feels exactly like the built-in Address Book app!' Not everybody believed him. But at the same time, he ran it inside Safari, not from an icon among the 'widgets'. That was illustrative, or we don't have a way to distribute widgets to the iPhone? We just don't quite know exactly how it all works yet. We've already seen widgets demoed on the thing so I really think a lot of people are being overly whiney and pessimistic about how powerful our AJAX apps could be.The people whining are Cocoa developers who aren't so confident in their AJAX skills. They're afraid that they just got doomed to another learning curve before they can hit the iPhone with their app. For users it's better this way because there are WAY more AJAX developers than Cocoa developers, so you get more apps sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest coach Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 This is why I never never never install those search bars.Nothing to install, it's built into the browser.Whoops, I was thinking the FF and IE plugins. Wonder if that is true for Opera, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest endymion Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 Wonder if that is true for Opera, too.Yes. All. Affiliate deals are the reason you see "Google" and "Ask" and all of that listed as options in any browser. It's the same as an ad campaign from the search engine's point of view. Even the Mozilla Foundation earns revenue that way, so Firefox is not free of corporate guilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest swirlundergrounder Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Hmm, OK, but that's not exactly groundbreaking.its damn fast .. i have 15 tabs open right now and the machine hasn't blown up yet SO TRUE... IE blows up all the time.. I used both. IE at work and Safari at home and Safari just feels smoother to run.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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