Did Electronica kill rock? Or did Rock just evolve (Room for both in clubland?)

[mugwump]

So this question is an ever going debate...

Did Electronic music today simply serpass (shovel under) Rock's original edge in our culture.

Rock use to be "edgy" and was pushing the boundries of youth culture. Is not electronica with all it's genres taking THAT lead these days?

Is there room for both in your life?

Or does rock just sound "used up" and old when placed besides electronica's future sounds and beatz?

What do you think?

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"Preposterous ASS! That never read so far to know the cause why music was ordained! Was it not to refresh the mind of man, after his studies, or his usual PAIN?

-Shakespear

[back2basics-]

I think electronica SAVED rock. Chemical Borthers, Prodigy, Underworld and look at what U2 are doing now.

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I want to go out blazing..not fade away.

Trust in the currency of relationships, it's hard to earn but easy to loose - back2basics

[randy0159]

Rock was killing itself. There are only so many sounds you can make with a guitar and I think those limits were being pushed. Add some electronic instruemtns to tweak with and you have a new twist.

It's important NOT to look at mtv or the radio to see what is happening in rock, rap, or dance music. Commerical mainstream music does not count as far as what is going on artistically.

[PinkFloyd40]

ummmm yea...

how bout this one.. rock created electronica..

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my stand on the sig controversy:

[back2basics-]

Originally posted by PFloyd40:

ummmm yea...

how bout this one.. rock created electronica..

And blues created rock.

Gospel created blues etc etc etc.

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I want to go out blazing..not fade away.

Trust in the currency of relationships, it's hard to earn but easy to loose - back2basics

[starchild-]

In all of history (im talking hundreds or thousands of years), I think rock is going to be a short-lived phase. Why?

4 minutes of:

verse, chorus, verse

verse, chorus, verse

refrain

verse, chorus, verse

is too limiting

Electronic, especially musicians that perform their music live [bT, Hybrid, Hawtin], are going back to the roots of it all, similar to Jazz or Classical. You can be far more creative and make far better music without the constraints of rock music, simple as that.

[This message has been edited by starchild- (edited 04-30-2001).]

[randy0159]

Look up sonic youth for rock music that does not follow the mainstream formula

[starchild-]

Err... Art Rock/Indie/Emo... True, indeed...

But, I never could get into those genres that much. For me, Music has to be emotional, and they're all too cerebral, like post-contemporary art.

Remember, I live in the Indie/Emo capital of the world, Chicago. Its all a game of who's wittier with their music than each other... and I find that more boring than watching paint dry.... I'm talking Pavement, Guided by Voices etc.. Sonic youth can be an exception at times..

betting on the bull in the heather...

[mugwump]

Originally posted by back2basics-:

Air and Mogwai are two more contempory bands it just goes to show it SAVED rock music.

Well I also love Air and I have to add Tortoise to that comment but as much as they have "enhanced" rock (or post-rock as some critics call it)

I don't believe they are creating cultural scenes the way techno and trance has..Ravers and Drum and bass headz and all the sub genre stereo types breeding from the music..

(The way hippies grew from rock and Dead heads grew from the dead)

a MASS youth culture movement that revolves around a "sound"..

Rock created several species but it seams to me that Electronica has planted the NEWER seeds which can only continue to grow..

and hopefully evolve.

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"Preposterous ASS! That never read so far to know the cause why music was ordained! Was it not to refresh the mind of man, after his studies, or his usual PAIN?

-Shakespear

[This message has been edited by mugwump (edited 04-30-2001).]

[back2basics-]

Originally posted by mugwump:

Well I also love Air and I have to add Tortoise to that comment but as much as they have "enhanced" rock (or post-rock as some critics call it)

They would call it post rock there by taking the credit away from electronica. Even people like Radio head say they hate dance music, but they come from the same influence lines.

Pisses me off that it's take 12 long years for the NME's of the world to give credit where it is due.

We used to call NME the ENEMY, they slatted everything house and Techno a few years ago.. now they have jumped on the bandwagon after years of taking the piss.

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I want to go out blazing..not fade away.

Trust in the currency of relationships, it's hard to earn but easy to loose - back2basics

[djfabioc]

Originally posted by PFloyd40:

ummmm yea...

how bout this one.. rock created electronica..

And hows is that>?

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IT IS NICE TO BE IMPORTANT BUT IS MORE IMPORTANT TO BE NICE!

aol IM- djfabioc

EXIT -G U E S T L I S T guestlis@optonline.net

[mugwump]

Originally posted by back2basics-:

They would call it post rock there by taking the credit away from electronica. Even people like Radio head say they hate dance music, but they come from the same influence lines.

Pisses me off that it's take 12 long years for the NME's of the world to give credit where it is due.

We used to call NME the ENEMY, they slatted everything house and Techno a few years ago.. now they have jumped on the bandwagon after years of taking the piss.

True True B2B!

Same way Amp popped up on MTv when Chemical Brothers broke through in America only a few years ago..

Only to make it fade away and replace it by "Hooch booty shit"

But isnt that always the case with the Pendelum of Main stream..

seams like one minute Techno and electronica are in the spot light and then Rock and hip hop are back up..

and then it's electronica again...etc..

and everytime it surfaces again newer people are touched by it and "borrow" elements from it..

or as you called it .."jump on the bandwagon"

(How sad was Bowie's ventures into Drm and Bass and I'm sorry but U2 never quite pulled it off in my book either)

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"Preposterous ASS! That never read so far to know the cause why music was ordained! Was it not to refresh the mind of man, after his studies, or his usual PAIN?

-Shakespear

[back2basics-]

Originally posted by mugwump:

or as you called it .."jump on the bandwagon"

(How sad was Bowie's ventures into Drm and Bass and I'm sorry but U2 never quite pulled it off in my book either)

Ha yeah that Bowie album was TERRIBLE. And U2 used to slag house music as well, then they say 'there has always been an element of dance music in our stuff'.. well f?ck them, freaking bitches.

They have all done it first they saw there market share drop and could no longer fill huge stadiums. Then they go back on what they said because they didn't have the vision to spot how it was going to take off in the first place.

I have some respect for U2 but they make themselves out to be the anti corporate machine and they are just playing the same game.

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I want to go out blazing..not fade away.

Trust in the currency of relationships, it's hard to earn but easy to loose - back2basics

[go411]

I don't know what to think about this topic. We're evolving way tooo fast, creating new tools to please our ears. Rock is in every other electronic tune is not gonna go away, it'll just evolve thru time, like it has in the past & present.

[mugwump]

The only good "electronica" CD Bono and the Edge where ever involved with in my collection is "PASSENGERS"

which is several soundtracks for short films produced and performed by:

Brian Eno, Micheal Brook, Bono and the edge.

(They even throw in Pavarotti on one track with Opera for good measure. L*)

Other than that I think the attempts of U2 fall flat outside of what the do best:

Which is simply being a GREAT pop band.

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"Preposterous ASS! That never read so far to know the cause why music was ordained! Was it not to refresh the mind of man, after his studies, or his usual PAIN?

-Shakespear

[This message has been edited by mugwump (edited 04-30-2001).]

[back2basics-]

Originally posted by go411:

I don't know what to think about this topic. We're evolving way tooo fast, creating new tools to please our ears. Rock is in every other electronic tune is not gonna go away, it'll just evolve thru time, like it has in the past & present.

Yeh i think the way it will evolve is use of new sounds. There are some great effects units that allow a guitarist to chege the sound to a piano or some other digitally created sound.

I will always love your Hendrix style of guitar playing but most people cannot create the range of osunds he could. And so there is only so much you can do with there tools.

For rock to survive they will have to embrase new technology and not just rely on re-mixes as they thing about rock music is it's LIVE appeal IMO.

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I want to go out blazing..not fade away.

Trust in the currency of relationships, it's hard to earn but easy to loose - back2basics

[mugwump]

Well it's true..

Rock evolved to incorporate new tools ("electronic" tools) in order to expand the sounds which traditional instruments limit the artists..

(Radio head's Kid A is a more contemporary example of this as is all the other bands mentioned in this thread, U2 etc..)

But this is nothing NEW(The Beatles produced many a strange electronic tweek on later albums as did The Beach Boys with aid of the theramin, And let's not forget Kraut Rock (or "space Rock") with all it's cosmic pioneers sooo very important top electronica today..

But what I speak of is a more current situation.

Perhaps I should have asked;

"Is electronica surpassing Rocks "edge"!"

or even

"Will rock ever find it's place in clubland"

(ever hear Zepplin mixed into a trance song?

Try Oakie's another world. Or the B52's "rock lobster" done drum and bass? Try Soulslinger..etc..and the remixing goes on...)

Seams to me that DJs tip their hats towards rock but come out saying..

Lets cut it up and continue to grow..

like Bukem's series "Logical progressions"

Perhaps Electronica is just that:

the inevitable progression of music with newer tools that limit us not.

(Now I have to go post a stupid picture..I'm getting to craniel "chicago style")

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"Preposterous ASS! That never read so far to know the cause why music was ordained! Was it not to refresh the mind of man, after his studies, or his usual PAIN?

-Shakespear

[This message has been edited by mugwump (edited 04-30-2001).]

[back2basics-]

Air and Mogwai are two more contempory bands it just goes to show it SAVED rock music.

------------------

I want to go out blazing..not fade away.

Trust in the currency of relationships, it's hard to earn but easy to loose - back2basics