Guest saleen351 Posted November 18 Report Share Posted November 18 Ok first off mr saleen has said some pretty harsh shit on cp but ppl like sassa and others, just shut the fuck up already with the USA bashing....You ppl make me sick, my granfathers took on the Japs and Nazis, show some fucking respect assholes....Call me what you want but I support USA and our leader and our troops!I rarely post on NY board but I read it all the time....If you don't have a better REAL world solution to the problems of today and tommorw then shut the fuck up. Don't give me any of that "they need love and hugs" bullshit......USA is not the world cops, we have the right to pick and choose who we help. Why is the worlds problems burdend on our shoulders....Don't reply to this just read it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted November 18 Report Share Posted November 18 many of my reatives fought in world war two and in the korean wari am not bashing the untied states as a whole, just the current administrationhhmm....as for all the clinton haters...should we label you as unamerican for bashing clinton when he was president? i didnt think so........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest saleen351 Posted November 18 Report Share Posted November 18 Originally posted by bigpoppanils many of my reatives fought in world war two and in the korean wari am not bashing the untied states as a whole, just the current administrationhhmm....as for all the clinton haters...should we label you as unamerican for bashing clinton when he was president? i didnt think so........... ok list exactly what our current admin is doing wrong....Dont' Bs give facts and examples.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted November 18 Report Share Posted November 18 1. stealing the election (might be bs to you but a fact to me!)2. not supporting the kyoto treaty3. supporting wto4. wasting money on a useless tax refund package5. getting relatives out of jail6. promotion of drilling in alaskan wilderness to ease energy problems7. not stopping the northern alliance from taking kabul8. continuing to push for multi-billion dollar defense system that would not have prevented what happened on september 11, and that will royally piss off our allies and russia9. trying to make aghanistan campaign look like a humanitarian effort10. passing "anti-terrorism" laws that seriuosly infringe on our rights to privacy and due process, as well as immigrant's rights :idea: :tongue: :tongue: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msoprano Posted November 18 Report Share Posted November 18 Originally posted by bigpoppanils 1. stealing the election (might be bs to you but a fact to me!)2. not supporting the kyoto treaty3. supporting wto4. wasting money on a useless tax refund package5. getting relatives out of jail6. promotion of drilling in alaskan wilderness to ease energy problems7. not stopping the northern alliance from taking kabul8. continuing to push for multi-billion dollar defense system that would not have prevented what happened on september 11, and that will royally piss off our allies and russia9. trying to make aghanistan campaign look like a humanitarian effort10. passing "anti-terrorism" laws that seriuosly infringe on our rights to privacy and due process, as well as immigrant's rights :idea: :tongue: :tongue: the election is def a fact -along with not wanting to disarm nuclear weapons but to increase there production. -puplically stating that the members of congress will be on a "need to know" basis which is 100% wrong when any military action is soppose to be approved by the congress.-talking about legalizing torture to suspected terrorists-allowing military tribunals...if you dont know what this is this is a predetermined court by which you are tried in front of 3 military officials who are wearing robes that cover their faces and the defendent does not have any rights to be told what he is accused of and his lawyer cannot see the evidence against his client...i think we named enough for now and he has only been pres for about a year....damn 3 more years is a scary thing to think about.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darcoleo Posted November 18 Report Share Posted November 18 No one stole the election if you read last week's newsday report on the past election. Bush won fair and square and if you're gonna point fingers, let's just say right here that if Gore was in office, we would've waited a year and a half until he had some girl under his desk and needed some sort of diversion (bombing the Serbians?) to get out of it. Bush is doing a better job than Gore would ever do and let's not get started with Clinton. That bastard soiled the presidency. Also, drilling in the wilderness and everywhere else may seem unethical to some, but if the we can't get oil from anywhere else, why not dirll? It would be cost effective and save Americans hundreds of dollars per year on average if we would a) release the oil reserves or start drilling. Who cares if it affects the mating practices of the Caribou anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clubgodraver Posted November 18 Report Share Posted November 18 Originally posted by bigpoppanils 1. stealing the election (might be bs to you but a fact to me!) 2. not supporting the kyoto treaty3. supporting wto4. wasting money on a useless tax refund package5. getting relatives out of jail6. promotion of drilling in alaskan wilderness to ease energy problems7. not stopping the northern alliance from taking kabul8. continuing to push for multi-billion dollar defense system that would not have prevented what happened on september 11, and that will royally piss off our allies and russia9. trying to make aghanistan campaign look like a humanitarian effort10. passing "anti-terrorism" laws that seriuosly infringe on our rights to privacy and due process, as well as immigrant's rights :idea: :tongue: :tongue: 1. Bush won by 537 votes! don't you guys ever give up! You lost!!! Bush is doing an incredible job...I would rather trust our country w/ him than Gore... 2. You can't ride both a sides of the pickett fence...the kyoto treaty deals w/ cutting emmissions, and pollutants to stop global warming...yet as Americans all we do is WANT and USE energy...its either let our economy fail, or we could go hug a tree so they don't chop it down. lets use practicality3. no comment4. tax refunds stimulate the economy...do you want a tax increase instead?5. one word CLINTON! the biggest joke and mockery yet to our nations history...to support and defend him is un-American...6. If we drill and become subsistant then we don't have to rely on the Arabs for oil and energy...therefore we eliminate the levrage they have upon us.7. Would you rather it be under Taliban control...the Northenr Alliance is helping us win this war. When all of this is over the UN and the US will set-up a new government in Afghanistan which we can monitor closely.8. Well if somewhere along the near future someone like binladen does get their handso n a nuclear device won't we be sorry for not having the "Star Wars" defense system. Or we it be better to allocate all our money by giving it away to the poor?9. Are you saying that we should not retaliate? Maybe the WTC bombings we're humanitarium as bin laden and his followers try to downplay it as...they think it was justified. Warfare is not humane...this is just the most absurd statement I've heard. Are you a taliban supporter?10. Anti-terrorism laws are aimed at preventing disasters like this to happen again. Maybe if we had stricter immigration laws these 20 hijackers would have never entered our country i nthe first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkern Posted November 18 Report Share Posted November 18 Originally posted by saleen351 If you don't have a better REAL world solution to the problems of today and tommorw then shut the fuck up. Don't give me any of that "they need love and hugs" bullshit......USA is not the world cops, we have the right to pick and choose who we help. Why is the worlds problems burdend on our shoulders.... I wouldn't characterize Sassa's posts as unAmerican or unpatriotic. Quite the contrary, actually (see "Sassa is a Necessity" thread by loch). It's her sort of challenging and opposing views that make a democracy successful - in fact, democracy relies wholly on the watchful criticism of its people, to keep it from becoming oppressive or unjust. As to "real world solutions," how about finding an alternative to oil? If we changed our standard of living (i.e. sacrafice our SUVs) to decrease our reliance on it, we could cut financial ties with Middle Eastern countries and that would solve the problem peacefully. Of course, this "real world" solution means serious personal sacrafice and a dramatic change in lifestyle - sacrafices that most won't even entertain a thought of. So to suggest we don't have options about how we handle conflict is naive. Of course we have options (see Jesus, Ghandi and Martin Luther King). Bombing is just easier.Perhaps it's not America's job to help the world (though I could argue that one too). We, like most nations, pick and choose who we "help" based on what we receive in return. But be honest about it then - don't cloak it in "hugz and love" spin-doctoring where suddenly Laura Bush turns feminist, claiming that our presence in Afghanistan is motivated by humanitarian concern over the plight of women. That is a crock of shit, plain and simple. Patriotism does not mean blind acceptance. It means supporting your country in its efforts to refine and define itself - and to voice your opposition if you feel it has fallen short. I too have lost relatives in past wars, and I can't think of a better way to honor their memory than to make sure my son does not die for anything less than a worthy cause. From my seat, this current military engagement looks like revenge and money. I think the lives of our boys may be worth more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xpander Posted November 18 Report Share Posted November 18 Originally posted by saleen351 ok list exactly what our current admin is doing wrong....Dont' Bs give facts and examples.. coincidentally, it's a lot of the Sassa detractors who's unloading BS and not providing facts.There's space for critical arguments from both sides. However, so far, no one here just said "USA sucks". There's always been some sort of argument for why a specific US policy or action should be criticised. Oddly enough, the response has often been "you're an unpatriotic fucking asshole, why don't you fuck off to afghanistan and see how you like it".There're SOME who actually responded with arguments as opposed to plain trash. And that's not to say that there's been shit talking from the US-critique side too. But still...Oh, and not to put you on the spot or anything, but look at the title of your thread here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msoprano Posted November 18 Report Share Posted November 18 Originally posted by clubgodraver 1. Bush won by 537 votes! don't you guys ever give up! You lost!!! Bush is doing an incredible job...I would rather trust our country w/ him than Gorei think the paper said it the other way around and gore was the won who won the election....and you cant say gore would have done this or that casue he doesnt have the chance to do anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted November 18 Report Share Posted November 18 Originally posted by clubgodraver 1. Bush won by 537 votes! don't you guys ever give up! You lost!!! Bush is doing an incredible job...I would rather trust our country w/ him than Gore... 2. You can't ride both a sides of the pickett fence...the kyoto treaty deals w/ cutting emmissions, and pollutants to stop global warming...yet as Americans all we do is WANT and USE energy...its either let our economy fail, or we could go hug a tree so they don't chop it down. lets use practicality3. no comment4. tax refunds stimulate the economy...do you want a tax increase instead?5. one word CLINTON! the biggest joke and mockery yet to our nations history...to support and defend him is un-American...6. If we drill and become subsistant then we don't have to rely on the Arabs for oil and energy...therefore we eliminate the levrage they have upon us.7. Would you rather it be under Taliban control...the Northenr Alliance is helping us win this war. When all of this is over the UN and the US will set-up a new government in Afghanistan which we can monitor closely.8. Well if somewhere along the near future someone like binladen does get their handso n a nuclear device won't we be sorry for not having the "Star Wars" defense system. Or we it be better to allocate all our money by giving it away to the poor?9. Are you saying that we should not retaliate? Maybe the WTC bombings we're humanitarium as bin laden and his followers try to downplay it as...they think it was justified. Warfare is not humane...this is just the most absurd statement I've heard. Are you a taliban supporter?10. Anti-terrorism laws are aimed at preventing disasters like this to happen again. Maybe if we had stricter immigration laws these 20 hijackers would have never entered our country i nthe first place. 1. dont get me started please2. our economy would not suffer if we conserve energy. if we continue to use energy at the rate we do so, we can face serious problems (like the california energy crisis that crippled business in the region)4. oh yeah that tax refund helped out a lot didnt it?5. huh? look at my first post on this thread to see my reply 6. like pkern said if we become less dependent on oil altogether we can solve that problem as well7. the taliban retreaded from the city anyway. with the northern alliance in kabul it makes the possibilty of a coalition government less likely. already the factions of the northern alliance are fighting amongst themselves in kabul!8. no...we would be better to allocate our money by pouring it into the cia, fbi, and gloabl nuclear disarment to prevent that in the first place9. i am in full support of the military campaign. however they should not call it a humanitarian effort if it is pure and simple revenge (which it is and i am happy that we are taking revenge)10. our nation was founded on immigration, and most of the terrorists would probably have gotten into the US anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msoprano Posted November 18 Report Share Posted November 18 heres the link for whoever said bush won the election http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/ny-livit152464840nov150.storyas you can see here bush didnt win the election. gore should have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycmuzik Posted November 18 Report Share Posted November 18 Originally posted by msoprano13 -puplically stating that the members of congress will be on a "need to know" basis which is 100% wrong when any military action is soppose to be approved by the congress.This wouldnt have to happen if certain members of Congress would learn to keep their mouths shut. They all want to get in good with the media so they decide to leak information which could put the lives soldiers at risk. We need to remember that its Special Op's forces that are in Afghanistan. They work better in the shadows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msoprano Posted November 18 Report Share Posted November 18 Originally posted by nycmuzik2000 This wouldnt have to happen if certain members of Congress would learn to keep their mouths shut. They all want to get in good with the media so they decide to leak information which could put the lives soldiers at risk. We need to remember that its Special Op's forces that are in Afghanistan. They work better in the shadows. yo i def agree with what you just said...but the statement that bush made should be kept behind closed doors..by saying that to the public it makes you look like a dictator.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycmuzik Posted November 18 Report Share Posted November 18 Originally posted by msoprano13 yo i def agree with what you just said...but the statement that bush made should be kept behind closed doors..by saying that to the public it makes you look like a dictator.. True.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuturephunk Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 Originally posted by saleen351 ok list exactly what our current admin is doing wrong....Dont' Bs give facts and examples.. One example, and this one will haunt us for MANY years to come . . The tax cut. . . BESIDES the fact that it will increase the rift between rich and poor, it will also severly limit the amount of money the government has to spend on millitary and public works projects. . We're gonna go right back into the regan years, where deficit spending was the bible . . . . . This tax cut is the equivalent of opening up a lemonade stand, where your total cost of production is 10 cents a glass, and then selling that ten cent glass of lemonade for a nickel . . . .that makes good fiscal sense?. . .. . . it's gonna be a loooong ride to the bottom, and even longer one back to the top . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robocock Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 i understand your anger. one bad thing bout diversity in New York city is that These foreign born bastards just don't give a shit about america.sorry i had to vent. if you don't like america, go back to where you came from!Originally posted by saleen351 Ok first off mr saleen has said some pretty harsh shit on cp but ppl like sassa and others, just shut the fuck up already with the USA bashing....You ppl make me sick, my granfathers took on the Japs and Nazis, show some fucking respect assholes....Call me what you want but I support USA and our leader and our troops!I rarely post on NY board but I read it all the time....If you don't have a better REAL world solution to the problems of today and tommorw then shut the fuck up. Don't give me any of that "they need love and hugs" bullshit......USA is not the world cops, we have the right to pick and choose who we help. Why is the worlds problems burdend on our shoulders....Don't reply to this just read it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 i was born here you idiotand if you are refferring to sassa....once again i state we are a nation of immigrants............it would be a bit hypocritical for your ancestors to migrate here (if they did) and build lives ofr themselves, and then you declare that other people cant do the same........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msoprano Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 Originally posted by bigpoppanils i was born here you idiotand if you are refferring to sassa....once again i state we are a nation of immigrants............it would be a bit hypocritical for your ancestors to migrate here (if they did) and build lives ofr themselves, and then you declare that other people cant do the same........ ignorance is bliss for some...prob about 75% of people who live here had there ancestors immagrate to this country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vixenfoxxy Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 It is important to look at every situation objectively. Just because you have some connection to a particular group, country, etc. does not mean you will always feel its actions are correct or ethical. To do so would be to render yourself blind and stupid. What you need to understand is that the government, the army, etc. are not the United States. They are part of it, one of many units that form the whole nation. It is both possible and generally positive to feel allegiance towards the United States while at the same time criticizing the government, military, whatever the group may be. What you are having a hard time with is that you are not drawing that distinction, and many Americans have that issue. In Britain, it's far easier because the Queen serves an apolitical figurehead - the crown represents the nation as a whole, and so one may be allegiant to the crown while feeling dissatisfied with the parliament. So think of it as this - the people you are freaking out about are allegiant to the "flag" as it were, just not in agreement with the policies of the present administration. BTW, many thanks to both your grandfathers for doing their parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xpander Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 Originally posted by robocock i understand your anger. one bad thing bout diversity in New York city is that These foreign born bastards just don't give a shit about america.sorry i had to vent. if you don't like america, go back to where you came from!The country belonged to Native Americans first (read: American Indians). See, the US is built on criticism and refinement of forms of government past, including our own. Again and again, the "criticize the government equals unpatriotic no-no" reeks of utter ignorance and a lack of knowledge of the basic fundamentals of how the US was formed in the first place.I wonder what kind of country would we have if geniuses like you ran it all the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkFloyd40 Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 Originally posted by xpander I wonder what kind of country would we have if geniuses like you ran it all the way? cuba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vixenfoxxy Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 Originally posted by PFloyd40 cuba :laugh: :laugh: AAAAUUUUUGGGGHHHHHH OMG I haven't laughed that hard in a LONG time! :laugh: :laugh: mad true quote from XPander though... let's not forget that *questions* lead to answers. As Einstein once said "we cannot solve the problems of the world by thinking on the level at which we created them." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xpander Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 Originally posted by PFloyd40 cuba wow.......got my answer.... :laugh: :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loch Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 Originally posted by msoprano13 ignorance is bliss for some...prob about 75% of people who live here had there ancestors immagrate to this country i'm no mathematician or historian, but not including native americans, who are the true "citizens" of this "land" (even then that can be argued because they migrated from Asia through the Bering Strait during the prehistoric/ice age, which, ultimately means that asians are the true native citizens? ), uhm...what was my point? uh...not including native americans, 100% of the people here are immigrants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.