msoprano Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 i was watching world views on cnn last night around 2am and there were numerous guests on and interviews in other countries that claim that the tape is a fake....one guy said that there voice of bin laden is 2 different voices and that there are actually 2 different tapes...and he was also talking about how something on the tape that was said didnt match up with what actually happened due to the date of the tape.,,,ill try and find somethign on this....just think though bin laden always claimed his terrorist activites...why wouldnt he claim the greatest terrorist attack in the history of the world and why would he leave a tape behind....dont get me wrong he should still be shot in the head numerous times but the possibility is out there.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 Son..come join us on Planet Reality...it is nice here...Did you really expect a different reaction in the Middle East...Actually, there has been more positive than negative...It is amazing you would equate the video to a National Enquirer stunt.....even in the name of "possibility" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perfecto25 Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 nah bro, its real. ill tell you why. if thats not bin laden and some actor, the studio deserves 100 academy awards. the facial features, the posture, the gentle yet cold nature of bin laden is all there. second, the translators were outside and independent, most of them arab scholars, who all unanimously agreed on the translation. third, besides the image of bin laden in that living room smirking, the tape contains about an hour of footage shot by the taliban of supposed remains of a US helicopter landing gear that was shot off in a fierce firefight for control of Mazar airport about a month ago. the video also contains images of bin ladens sons quoting koran and jihad and etc. how is the 'jewish controlled media' gonna replicate that? this is same old conspiracy theory talk that will never end, never. remeber who killed JFK? shit, thats right, here we go again. the tape was real, the terrorist is real, the threat is real. bin laden will die soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msoprano Posted December 15 Author Report Share Posted December 15 yo i was never doubting the fact that the tape wasnt real....i was just telling you guys what was on cnn last night for about 2 hours....and wanted to hear your opinions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooklynkid Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 The video is likely real, but if I might be devil's advocate for discussion's sake (i'm home sick, OK??)...*if* it were fake it would be a convenient time to make it public, giving some the proof they needed to see and at the same time boosting patriotism for Americans with the holidays here.faking it is certainly not beyond our technical ability. It could have been look-a-likes. It could have been Pixar!why would a man with so much money use such poor quality video? Get rid of the old VHS and go with MiniDV, man!Again, I believe the tape is real. I'm just adding my worthless $.02... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aphelion Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 Tthe tape... who gives a fuck about the tape when you've got a President breaking the ABM treaty and using executive privilige to conceal evidence in a murder trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 Msoprano, I think you are one of the most open and intruiguing people on this board....I definitely think anything is possible regarding the tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycmuzik Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 Considering what the government has pulled of in the past there is a chance it could be a fake. But its a very small chance. There would be more harm done than good if someone was to find out it was a fake. And I dont think the gov't would take a risk that big....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inyourdreams Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 speaking of gov't conspiracies and what noti think that the flight that went down in queens a couple of weeks ago was a terrorist attack, to me it just seems TOO weird for something like that to happen considering all the routine checks and inspections that all planes take prior to take off, in my opinion it was a terrorist attack but they arent going to tell us because the airline industry would go out of business...noone would fly anymore and that would be a low blow to the US economy, just my 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatang Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 Originally posted by perfecto25 nah bro, its real. ill tell you why. if thats not bin laden and some actor, the studio deserves 100 academy awards. the facial features, the posture, the gentle yet cold nature of bin laden is all there. second, the translators were outside and independent, most of them arab scholars, who all unanimously agreed on the translation. third, besides the image of bin laden in that living room smirking, the tape contains about an hour of footage shot by the taliban of supposed remains of a US helicopter landing gear that was shot off in a fierce firefight for control of Mazar airport about a month ago. the video also contains images of bin ladens sons quoting koran and jihad and etc. how is the 'jewish controlled media' gonna replicate that? this is same old conspiracy theory talk that will never end, never. remeber who killed JFK? shit, thats right, here we go again. the tape was real, the terrorist is real, the threat is real. bin laden will die soon. this is the second political comment i read from perfecto, and it's perfect! though i'm really not interested in politics (i regard it as amusement for the masses) i admire people who are serious thinkers and who decide to get involved. often though i think they'd be better off composing music and writing novels, than getting in the dirt of politics.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 Friday December 14 06:27 PM EST Experts Say bin Laden Tape AuthenticBy JIM KRANE, AP Technology Writer NEW YORK (AP) - Even with all the current digital wizardry, faking the videotape in which Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) appears to take credit for the Sept. 11 attacks would be extremely difficult, experts said Friday. The biggest hurdle would be mimicking the cadence and rhythm of human speech. Synchronizing a doctored soundtrack with existing video would also be tough, and technology that can synthesize Arabic speech is still in its infancy. Chi-Lin Shih, a language modeling scientist at Lucent Technologies' Bell Labs, described the process as akin to reassembling a broken vase by gluing together its shards. Close scrutiny would likely reveal the cracks. Software tools allow for elements of a person's speech to be glued together to put words in their mouths, but such a doctored recording would not sound natural to an expert listener, said Kenneth Stevens, head of the speech research lab at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (news - web sites). Some hardline Islamic militants in Pakistan and the Middle East suggested the tape was fabricated to provide a rational for U.S. military actions in Afghanistan (news - web sites). President Bush (news - web sites) called the charge ``preposterous.'' Administration officials said they intentionally declined to try to enhance the video's sound or picture so as not to give detractors ammunition. Emerging speech synthesis technology is giving computers the ability to mimic a human voice. The creators of AT&T's Natural Voices software, for example, claim the program can mimic the speech of actors now dead, such as John Wayne. By allowing computers to analyze enough tapes of an actor's voice, the program could synthesize the voice, allowing it to make statements Wayne never said. Theoretically, the same could be done with bin Laden's voice since recordings of his speech are readily available, said Lynn Shepherd, a vice president of Fonix Corp., a speech synthesis software company in Salt Lake City. ``If they had a lot of recordings of bin Laden, they could create some speech that sounded pretty good,'' Shepherd said. However, most software requires a dozen or more hours of high-quality studio recordings, where a speaker is asked to make all of a language's particular combinations of sounds. ``It takes engineers months to break down all these voice fragments so that I can reproduce the language,'' said Bill DeStefanis, who heads speech technology for ScanSoft Inc. of Peabody, Mass. ``The idea that the U.S. government could have done this in the space of a month is highly improbable,'' DeStefanis said. ``With a short snippet, I might be able to fake you out, but not a long speech.'' On the tape, some of bin Laden's words are unintelligible. The tape's poor sound quality could theoretically be used to mask tampering, experts said. But beyond synthesizing a voice, doctored speech would have to be synchronized video - another difficult task usually easy to spot. Digital synchronization of sound and images is a staple of Hollywood filmmaking. In the 2000 movie ``Gladiator,'' actor Oliver Reed died before shooting ended and the filmmakers pieced together several scenes using previously shot footage. DeStefanis and others said, however, that fooling the trained eye is difficult. ``The human eye and ear are very good at seeing out-of-synch lips,'' he said. Also, few if any of today's sophisticated speech synthesis engines have been programmed to generate bin Laden's native Arabic, Shepherd said. ``There are some low quality ones, but nothing that would be good enough,'' Shepherd said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perfecto25 Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 think about it, think about risks and rewards factor for putting out this tape. if its fake as many of our muslim 'allies' claim, and the fakeness is discovered by one way or another, the failure would be catastrophic for the US gov. all credibility would be lost. why? was the tape needed to be shown? no. if it wasnt shown, the war would still go on. the risks of showing a fake tape greatly outweigh the rewards. pure logical deduction. furthermore, to duplicate bin ladens speech, a man who is so rarely seen and heard in real life or on video, is extremely difficult, and would never look real to arabs who speak his dialect. the tape is real, get over it. heres a piece from DEBKA an Israeli news agency--------------------14 December: The videotape published in Washington after much deliberation shows a jubilant Osama bin Laden in conversation with a much younger Saudi sheik in a Kandahar guesthouse, crowing over the most ungodly act in the history of terrorism. The chilling effect of bin Laden’s contemptuously amused admission is only exceeded by his suggestion that the suicide bombers had no knowledge of the nature of their assignments.Questions inevitably arise about the circumstances of the videotape’s discovery in a deserted house in Jalalabad. Was it necessary for the United States to spend two months fighting a war in Afghanistan before laying hands on conclusive evidence of the former Saudi terrorist’s guilt in masterminding the September 11 attacks in which more than 3000 died? Could not the CIA with all its advanced intelligence gadgets have done the job without war? It appears not. It took conventional action on the ground. The most important aspect of the captured videotape is the impression of authenticity it conveys. For the Americans, it is compelling evidence of bin Laden’s guilt. But the star player also draws vindication from its contents, evidence that he is capable of carrying out his threats to bring America low and is a man of his word. That was one of the arguments against releasing the tape. However, on at least one point, DEBKAfile’s analysts are certain he was lying, using religious fanaticism to justify his terrible deeds.On January 8, 1998, a Manhattan court sentenced a Pakistani called Ramzi Yousef to 240 years in isolation for the first attempt to destroy New York’s World Trade Center eight years ago. In February 1993: he drove a truck loaded with explosives into the underground parking level of one of the World Trade Center towers and set off a small blast which killed six people. The plan went awry, although the amount of explosives and the positioning of the truck were calculated precisely to cause one tower to buckle and hit the second, killing many thousands. Yousef went on to bare the second half of the terror conspiracy against New York – a plan to blow up the main bridges and tunnels leading into the city. Both parts were calculated to bring about one quarter of a million deaths. The convicted terrorist voiced regret at the failure of both plots, but never named the senior terrorist behind them.However intelligence subsequently collected, some of it in plea bargain deals with al Qaeda members tried for the 1998 East African embassy bombings, points squarely to Osama bin Laden as the mastermind - then as now. On the videotape he says (in reference to the September 11 attacks): “We calculated that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors. I was the most optimistic of them all.” Bin Laden went to say: “…due to my experience in this field, I was thinking that the fire from the gas in the plane would melt the iron structure of the building and collapse the area where the plane hit and all the floors above it only.”He added modestly, “This is all we had hoped for.” However, 1993 bin Laden plotted the murder of quarter of a million Americans. Why then would he be content – and even optimistic – about the death of a few hundred on the “three or four floors” – particularly when he upgraded his weapon from an explosive truck placed under one tower to two large airliners - one for each of the two. As a qualified engineer, he must have fully appreciated the destructive force of his action.His show of modesty can be explained by the pious requirement of Islam not to brag, but rather to play down the believer’s “achievements” in order to assign full honor and glory for his surpassing “success” to his deity, rather than to himself. This show of piety and humility sounds very much like Bin Laden playing to the fundamentalist gallery. He meant to impress and inspire the faithful to follow in his footsteps. In another part of the tape, it is claimed that since September 11, the numbers of applicants for places at Muslim study and prayer centers is up. His horrific deed was thus justified in the eyes of his Saudi friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 Originally posted by sassa Msoprano, I think you are one of the most open and intruiguing people on this board....I definitely think anything is possible regarding the tape. Of course you would..you waste more time searching and preaching the far-fetched in the name of "open mindness" and "delusional elitism" instead of anchoring yourself in reality and offering practical ideas and solutions...You are a fucking jerkoff.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 Originally posted by sassa Friday December 14 06:27 PM EST Experts Say bin Laden Tape AuthenticBy JIM KRANE, AP Technology Writer NEW YORK (AP) - Even with all the current digital wizardry, faking the videotape in which Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) appears to take credit for the Sept. 11 attacks would be extremely difficult, experts said Friday. What the fuck is this.....Sassa offering up objective data.....holy shit......did someone drop something on your head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msoprano Posted December 15 Author Report Share Posted December 15 Originally posted by sassa Msoprano, I think you are one of the most open and intruiguing people on this board....I definitely think anything is possible regarding the tape. thanks sassa...igloo there is no need for the hostility....i just try the best that i can to tell it how it is based on info that i read, hear and learn from reading what you guys gotta say on the board....based on my studies of the u.s. govt in the past and all the stuff that has been pulled of that they openly lied about i have to keep my mind open for the possibiltiy that they could be repeating the past....you know what they say history tends to repeat itself..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 Originally posted by igloo What the fuck is this.....Sassa offering up objective data.....holy shit......did someone drop something on your head? Why don't you stop already with the negative attitude?Seriously, it's getting more annoying and lame with each day. I really hope for your sake that you are not like this in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyskribz57 Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 First of all, I can't believe the midget fuck known as igloo is still posting on the boards, havent seen you in a while buddy, how are ya?Second of all, anyone ever think of the chance that bin laden isn't in afghanistan. Could he possibly be somewhere else, and that we are bombing the shit out of an empty cave, and that when we send our troops into the cave to get him, he won't be there.....I had a conversation with a friend of mine the other day, and we both were talking about the possibility that Binladen is here in the United States, and has been here for a really long time, supposedly he's been planning these attacks for over a decade...And according to the way that he believes, as well as the hijackers of the planes on Sept. 11th, if they die, they are dying for god, so they look at it as a good thing..What's been on my mind basically, is the small chance that he is here, in the US, waiting for our troops to stick their thumbs up their asses again, so he can bomb the shit out of the United States......Remember the Roman Empire? How they seemed to control the entire world, Trade, Markets, Countries, now is the Time of the American Empire, and just like the Roman Empire, we are about to fall.......Just something to think about, I pray that it won't happen like this, but it could.....And for those of you that are so closed minded to think that something like this could never happen, it's time to open your eyes, and actually take a look at what has been going on for the last 20 years or so....-Scotty- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inyourdreams Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 Originally posted by scottyskribz57 First of all, I can't believe the midget fuck known as igloo is still posting on the boards, havent seen you in a while buddy, how are ya?Second of all, anyone ever think of the chance that bin laden isn't in afghanistan. Could he possibly be somewhere else, and that we are bombing the shit out of an empty cave, and that when we send our troops into the cave to get him, he won't be there.....I had a conversation with a friend of mine the other day, and we both were talking about the possibility that Binladen is here in the United States, and has been here for a really long time, supposedly he's been planning these attacks for over a decade...And according to the way that he believes, as well as the hijackers of the planes on Sept. 11th, if they die, they are dying for god, so they look at it as a good thing..What's been on my mind basically, is the small chance that he is here, in the US, waiting for our troops to stick their thumbs up their asses again, so he can bomb the shit out of the United States......Remember the Roman Empire? How they seemed to control the entire world, Trade, Markets, Countries, now is the Time of the American Empire, and just like the Roman Empire, we are about to fall.......Just something to think about, I pray that it won't happen like this, but it could.....And for those of you that are so closed minded to think that something like this could never happen, it's time to open your eyes, and actually take a look at what has been going on for the last 20 years or so....-Scotty- I totally agree with what you're saying, its very possible that he is here in the US... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyskribz57 Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 Originally posted by inyourdreams speaking of gov't conspiracies and what noti think that the flight that went down in queens a couple of weeks ago was a terrorist attack, to me it just seems TOO weird for something like that to happen considering all the routine checks and inspections that all planes take prior to take off, in my opinion it was a terrorist attack but they arent going to tell us because the airline industry would go out of business...noone would fly anymore and that would be a low blow to the US economy, just my 2 cents Finally someone agrees with me..... Why the hell would the airline company, or any gov't run business come clean and say it was another attack, look at this way, they would rather have people guessing, then to come clean and look like they were sitting around again with their thumbs up their asses...-Scotty- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inyourdreams Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 Originally posted by scottyskribz57 Finally someone agrees with me..... Why the hell would the airline company, or any gov't run business come clean and say it was another attack, look at this way, they would rather have people guessing, then to come clean and look like they were sitting around again with their thumbs up their asses...-Scotty- Yup that's what I'm saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest saleen351 Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 Originally posted by igloo Of course you would..you waste more time searching and preaching the far-fetched in the name of "open mindness" and "delusional elitism" instead of anchoring yourself in reality and offering practical ideas and solutions...You are a fucking jerkoff.. Amen to that!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msoprano Posted December 15 Author Report Share Posted December 15 Originally posted by scottyskribz57 First of all, I can't believe the midget fuck known as igloo is still posting on the boards, havent seen you in a while buddy, how are ya?Second of all, anyone ever think of the chance that bin laden isn't in afghanistan. Could he possibly be somewhere else, and that we are bombing the shit out of an empty cave, and that when we send our troops into the cave to get him, he won't be there.....I had a conversation with a friend of mine the other day, and we both were talking about the possibility that Binladen is here in the United States, and has been here for a really long time, supposedly he's been planning these attacks for over a decade...And according to the way that he believes, as well as the hijackers of the planes on Sept. 11th, if they die, they are dying for god, so they look at it as a good thing..What's been on my mind basically, is the small chance that he is here, in the US, waiting for our troops to stick their thumbs up their asses again, so he can bomb the shit out of the United States......Remember the Roman Empire? How they seemed to control the entire world, Trade, Markets, Countries, now is the Time of the American Empire, and just like the Roman Empire, we are about to fall.......Just something to think about, I pray that it won't happen like this, but it could.....And for those of you that are so closed minded to think that something like this could never happen, it's time to open your eyes, and actually take a look at what has been going on for the last 20 years or so....-Scotty- very valid points bro.....major corporations pretty much run the county with all the lobying power that they have so if bin laden blows another plane up they can easily get together with the govt and cover it up,.....who the hell knows....we certainley dont....we can just do the best we can and try to research and come to our own conclusions meanwhile the truth of this whole mess is so far hidden that when we are all 50 years old then we might know what really went down...if the world is still around in 30 years from now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycmuzik Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 I dont think there is a chance in hell that Bin Laden is in this country. As much as our intellegence agencies blew what happened Sept. 11, there is no way that Bin Laden would get into this country without them knowing about it. Plus, where would he really be able to hide. I know there are people here that support him but the gov't is keeping close tabs on them, whether legally or illegally. Its like you're running from the cops but you decide to hide in the police station......Also, lets not forget the interviews or videos with Bin Laden that were released after Sept. 11. He might have gotten out of Afghanistan but he aint getting into this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyskribz57 Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 Originally posted by nycmuzik2000 I dont think there is a chance in hell that Bin Laden is in this country. As much as our intellegence agencies blew what happened Sept. 11, there is no way that Bin Laden would get into this country without them knowing about it. Plus, where would he really be able to hide. I know there are people here that support him but the gov't is keeping close tabs on them, whether legally or illegally. Its like you're running from the cops but you decide to hide in the police station......Also, lets not forget the interviews or videos with Bin Laden that were released after Sept. 11. He might have gotten out of Afghanistan but he aint getting into this country. Damn man, you don't think he's been planning this thing out for years, he could've come over here ten years ago, security wouldn't have touched him, more than half the country has no idea who he was until this shit happened, and he couldve been hiding since then...._Scotty-"openyoureyesman" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycmuzik Posted December 16 Report Share Posted December 16 Originally posted by scottyskribz57 Damn man, you don't think he's been planning this thing out for years, he could've come over here ten years ago, security wouldn't have touched him, more than half the country has no idea who he was until this shit happened, and he couldve been hiding since then...._Scotty-"openyoureyesman" The US has been aware of Bin Laden since the Gulf War, if not sometime before that. Plus who was in all those videos that were made at Afghan terrorist training camps this past year? Also a Pakistani journalist interviewed Bin Liden in Afghanistan about a month or 2 ago. I wouldnt be surprised if he escaped the country after the collapse of the Taliban. But I doubt he would be stupid enough to even try to get into this country.Martin-"lookatthefactsbro" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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