A Question For Club Elders...

[phatman]

So Im driving to get lunch and my radio is on KTU with the lunch hour Freestyle Mix - now I dont care if I get ripped because I still listen to that stuff once in a while - but here was the thought:

Harder to DJ in the late 80s early 90s

Harder to DJ in the present

As for me Im not really sure - in the past, there were no real solid samplers, cds, etc. Add to this that freestyle and then the initial commercial house had bpms all over the place - to me, it must have been difficult to keep a theme, a groove, a flow going all night.

Now, however, you have rides within a record, less breaks than before, if any, and you have the addition of the samplers, computers, etc.

Watcha think?

[renntenn]

if you had ever been to caffeine out in deer park long island before 94....you're question would be answered

[cotoncandydream]

Excellent reference Renn. Listen it's like this. Back in the day it was all about the music and now it seems it's more about pimping the music. Exploitation is not a bad word but it is a word too often used in the music industry. We use to have a alot more singer/songwriters and producers instead of remixers. Things have gotten strange.

[phuturephunk]

Originally posted by phatman

So Im driving to get lunch and my radio is on KTU with the lunch hour Freestyle Mix - now I dont care if I get ripped because I still listen to that stuff once in a while - but here was the thought:

Harder to DJ in the late 80s early 90s

Harder to DJ in the present

As for me Im not really sure - in the past, there were no real solid samplers, cds, etc. Add to this that freestyle and then the initial commercial house had bpms all over the place - to me, it must have been difficult to keep a theme, a groove, a flow going all night.

Now, however, you have rides within a record, less breaks than before, if any, and you have the addition of the samplers, computers, etc. .

Watcha think?

. . I personally think that it was harder to DJ back then because the songs were more "event" oriented, the tempos more diverse and an almost non-existant adherance to strict sub-genre rules . . .

. . It's gonna be difficult, but allow me to try to explain:

When I say "event" song I mean a song that has a marked beginning, logically ramps up, has at least one major breakdown and at least one change up. The tying point is that the song can stand on it's own. There need not be other songs that have to be mixed into and out of it inorder to give the listener a complete range of emotion and sense of travel from the music . . In short, it gets the point across in a one shot . .

Many old-skool songs are like that. . They have vocals, very pronounced chords, which were usually sequenced in such a way that they were NOT just simple loops, but rather an expression that bridged many bars of play, constantly changing up from bar to bar, sometimes to the point where the listener will not hear a repeat of the progression until much later in the song . .

. . In effect, these songs were just more ornately orchestrated, giving creedence to the fact that electronic is a substantial genre of music, BUT also making it a SUPREME PAIN IN THE ASS to mix the songs . .

. .Today's music is a bit different . . Many times when an artist puts out an LP, there will be several mixes on it . . One that you will almost always get is the " 12" " or "extended" mix. . You'll notice that the beginnings and ends of these mixes are usually characterized by, most times, at least 2 full progressions (alot of times 4) of bare beats and layerings of chords that lead up to the thick of the song . .

. . Now stop for a minute and think of why that slow layering process on the leading and trailing edges of the song is there? . . .

. . If you guessed: "To help the DJ throw the song" you were correct . .

. . You need time as a DJ to throw the song and ease it into the one already playing . . The less progressions of buildup you have, the less time you have to mix . . hence the need for a 12 inch mix . .

. . The antithesis of the extended/12 inch mix is the "airplay" or "radio" edit/mix . . This mix is usually characterized by the song's progressions being chopped into small discreet parts (usually half or a quarter of what the original and extended mixes will have) . . It can play as a discreet unit because it doesn't have the long buidups and breakdowns . . . Perfect for airplay, horrible for mixing . . The chords in these mixes are usually pretty up front as well, with very little layering, just full on from the beginning, cause you have to get your point across without the help of other songs and in under 4 minutes (most extended mixes go over 5 mins, 6 in many many cases . . the sky is really the limit, I have some that are 15 mins). .

. . Now, I don't want to say that airplay mixes are pointless, they just aren't very well suited to the art of mixing . .

. . Old skool tracks, as stated before, had the same kind of mentality. . The songs weren't necessarily short, they just came on full from the beginning and had very ornate patterns to them, which in turn made them much harder to mix . .

. . I also am of the school of thought that the faster the tempo, the easier it is to beatmatch. . there's just too much stuff going on, so you can come apart slightly and it isn't as noticable to the listener (this is especially the case with live PA) . .

. . All in all, I believe all skilled mixing is difficult to perfect, no matter what era or genre you came from or are currently in . . cause I can teach a monkey to beatmatch . . Now key and chord matching is a completely different story . . perfection in that is what separates the hacks from the legends . .

. . Just a thought . .

-Phuturephunk

[brooklynkid]

good points made by all of you. Hey I *learned* to beat mix with freestyle back in '88 and '89. Varied BPMs, poor edits, you name it, it was there. Today we have it EASY with our progressive beats.

anyway, if anyone is looking for a freestyle fix at work or home, I used to do an online freestyle mix show back in '98. We still have about 60 mix shows online, ranging from 45 minutes to 3 hours. If you want to check them out, visit http://wktu.com/archive.html. No, we weren't affiliated with the radio station

[phatman]

Originally posted by brooklynkid

good points made by all of you. Hey I *learned* to beat mix with freestyle back in '88 and '89. Varied BPMs, poor edits, you name it, it was there. Today we have it EASY with our progressive beats.

anyway, if anyone is looking for a freestyle fix at work or home, I used to do an online freestyle mix show back in '98. We still have about 60 mix shows online, ranging from 45 minutes to 3 hours. If you want to check them out, visit http://wktu.com/archive.html. No, we weren't affiliated with the radio station

Holy Sh-t - do u remember DMN - dancemusic.net??

I was co-founder/owner - aka Niko - I remember u guys like it was yesterday...wow...small world...

BTW

Phuturephunk - you are the man when it comes to music - I have read some of your prior posts and you are quite prolific if not prophetic at times. That wasnt a "thought" but a small essay.

As much as I agree with you, I have witnessed someone like Carl Cox take the crowd to the music and the music to the crowd in a way like no other - raising the level of energy with beats higher and higher with each record - just when you thought you were at a ceiling, he would blow it off and raise it again...that man has skills..I'm still in between...a good dj is a good dj..he works with the music, crowd, and technology of the times...

[brooklynkid]

Originally posted by phatman

Holy Sh-t - do u remember DMN - dancemusic.net??

I was co-founder/owner - aka Niko - I remember u guys like it was yesterday...wow...small world...

hell yeah i remember you! damn, this world is so small sometimes it's scary...i can't believe it's been almost four years already!

[phuturephunk]

phatman : thanx for the props . . . . . I try to take it on the mental whenever possible . .

Brooklyn : That sig is dope . . talk about a prophecy in motion. . .

[brooklynkid]

Originally posted by phuturephunk

Brooklyn : That sig is dope . . talk about a prophecy in motion. . .

thanks PP...i know, right? yo...will i see you again on thurs at pseudo?

[loch]

Originally posted by phuturephunk

...

<<bows down to The Phunk>>

[j303j]

Originally posted by renntenn

if you had ever been to caffeine out in deer park long island before 94....you're question would be answered

ahh the good ol days. i miss that place so much. all these herbs wearing caffeine clothes don't have a clue about what they are wearing or what it was about.

[phuturephunk]

Originally posted by brooklynkid

thanks PP...i know, right? yo...will i see you again on thurs at pseudo?

Yeah, I'm gonna come down . . I been feeling kinda under the weather . . but I have a feeling it has something to do with the activities I participated in this weekend. . . . . I should be good by tomorrow night . .

[Guest tilly]

Originally posted by phuturephunk

. . It's gonna be difficult, but allow me to try to explain:

When I say "event" song I mean a song that has a marked beginning, logically ramps up, has at least one major breakdown and at least one change up. The tying point is that the song can stand on it's own. There need not be other songs that have to be mixed into and out of it inorder to give the listener a complete range of emotion and sense of travel from the music . . In short, it gets the point across in a one shot . .

-Phuturephunk

Dude, I don't even have to speak...you made my point! As you would say, RAWK, RAWK, RAWK!!!

[phuturephunk]

Originally posted by tilly

Dude, I don't even have to speak...you made my point! As you would say, RAWK, RAWK, RAWK!!!

Rawk Rawk Rawk!!! . . .

[thehacker]

RAWK