jesseh49
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Posts posted by jesseh49
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Originally posted by frenchbread
damn...do i need to spell it out for you?...
media owned by 6 people...
very easy for the gov't to control...all you gotta do is be friends with 6 people some way or another...
oh wait...oh the guy that owns fox is one of bush's best friend...
no...that couldn't be why fox is the most pro-war of all chanels...
Look at the New York Times they ran stories that many felt were questioning the US's authority? So again you are wrong. Our gov't doesn't run the media.
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Originally posted by frenchbread
you're obviously missinformed...
90% of the mass media belong to 6 people in this country...
Right but you said in your post before that our media is run by the gov't. I was simply stating that it wasn't. So why did you say that our media is controlled by the gov't if it really isn't.
i am not willing to take in all forms of information?...
woa...lol...please...
You don't really believe in any iformation that the US releases you think it is all a conspiracy for some reason
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Originally posted by mr mahs
You just realise this? All of the Iraqis in Iraq can sign a petition stating the Americans were just in fighting this war and it still would be wrong in his eyes..
Oh french to ruffle your feathers a litte bit.. The leader of the opposition group sated that Iraq will alwys remember and lean towrds who liberated them and will NEVER forget who tried tio stop the liberation.. So what that means is that evn if all U.S companies get the contracts to rebuild Iraq it would be justified by the Iraqi people, isn't Captalism great??
I sware I would love to high 5 Pres Bush and Tommy Franks right now....
I'm sure Frenchbread will have some argument on why the French should get some of those contracts even though none of there soliders died fighting to liberate them. That it was all a conspiracy by Big Business in the US to go to war in order to get more contracts overseas.
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Originally posted by frenchbread
here are a little difference between france and the u.s.:
the media is not part of the gov't...
state and church are seperated...
let this be investigated by who?...the u.s. military?...please...
you have dozens of witnesses(not french) and an actual video, but you only believe the pentagon press release...
keep livin' the dream...
Our media is not part of the gov't. It is owned by huge corporations which are owned by shareholders. So anyone can acutally own a small piece of the media.
I haven't made up my mind yet if they were really fired upon. It just happened yesterday. I will wait untill all of the evidence is in to make up my decision. I, unlike you am willing to take in all forms of information to make a decision on my own.
You will never believe anything the goverment says because you are so paranoid that they are only out to lie and to decieve the public. You will never admit that the Iraqis are so much better off now that we have Liberated them. Even though you can see them dancing in the streets. Oh wait that is because the footage has been filmed by US media not the French media. So that means it must have been filmed on some back studio lot somewhere.
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Originally posted by mr mahs
As we watch the liberation of Iraqi people by thousands of Iraqi dancing in the street because the fear and opression that they had to endore is over... How can you still have the same anti-war argument when even international news agencies have reported the torture chambers the using of civilians as sheilds as well as other ATROCITIES?? There is THOUSAND of Iraqi nationals dancing in the street in michigan isn't this another example of a JUST WAR??
I am just glad I am on the RIGHT side of the fence...
:aright: :aright: -
Originally posted by frenchbread
whatever...
1. the footage was shown not long after the attacks...so i don't know how they could have manipulated it...
It is not hard to manipulate footage. With todays editing equipment you could loop some footage in very quickly.
2. you have all the journalists that were in the hotel and in front of it corroborating the same story...
3. you tell me how long u.s. troops waiting after acquiring aim at a target that supposedly is firing rockets at them...2 minutes?...
please...try 2 seconds...
4. but that's probably how you fight too right?...somebody punches you...you aim to punch back them in the face, but wait 2 minutes...just for the hell of it...
There is quite a difference of throwing a punch back at someone that is standing right in front of you and launching a missle at someone who is hiding firing a gun at you. First off its a punch you aren't going to kill anybody by punching them back...most of the time.
The person shooting didn't shoot at them then stand up and yell "hey over here" They had to figure out the direction of fire. Make sure they were correct because they were about to fire at a hotel. Contrary to what you believe our troops are trying to minimize civilian casualties. Then position themselves to hit the spot they felt the person was at. So yea that could take 2 minutes.
and the oswald argument is not stupid...it shows you that our gov't will insist that "official stories" are true as long as they can...
even when everybody knows it's false...
Everybody doesn't believe it's false. Many people believe Oswald did kill JFK. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean everyone has the same feelings.
sure investigated by the one that fired...
i wonder what they're going to say...
Your producing evidence by our biggest opponent to this war(France). They would love to see nothing more than us fail. So how am I to believe anything they show or say. The reporters who are also claiming we shot at them aren't Pro US. How do I know they aren't in on this whole thing to make the US look bad? Do you get what I'm saying? You need to let this be investigated before reaching a conclusion.
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Originally posted by frenchbread
there is proof...
FOOTAGE filmed by France 3 television of a strike on a hotel which killed two journalists in Baghdad today shows a US tank targeting the journalists' hotel and waiting at least two minutes before firing.
and then they claim that they were under rocket and other fire...
do you wait 2 minutes before firing back when you're under rocket fire?...
yea and our gov't still maintains that oswald killed jfk...so you believe that too?...
First of all how do you know how long they are supposed to wait before firing? Maybe they were trying to pinpoint the location of the person firing since they know civilans are around? Again your not out onn the battlefield. You aren't taking direct orders from your tank commander.
Oswald argument is stupid... How do I know that France didn't manipulate the footage so the Americans look bad? How do I know that the other reporters aren't conspiring to make the US look bad? They are angry at the US for the embedded reporters. You believe in way too many conspiracy theorys?
I bet you don't think we landed on the moon...
:laugh:Your argument is still speculation untill the firing is investigated further.
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Originally posted by frenchbread
because the journalists that were in the hotel, and in front of the hotel have reported that...
so i do have proof...
Our soliders reported that they were being shot at from the hotel. So I have proof that they were. Get the point I'm trying to make. You are still speculating. You are choosing to believe what the journalists have to say. I am choosing to believe what the troops have to say.
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Originally posted by chrishaolin
Ok but what happens if Saddam and his sons slip away somehow.. Its certainly not easy to track down 3 people in a city the size of Baghdad and it is feasible that they are out of the country already..
Then we will go after them. Saddam is not a person like Bin Laden. He will never be happy hiding in caves or bunkers for the rest of his life. This is a man who lives in Palaces with gold showers and thrives on huge parades honoring him. Just look at Iraq how many pictures and statues of him there were.
Other countries aren't going to be as fast to harbor him as they would be Bin Laden. They know he is a pain the ass and don't want to deal with him, or the threat of the US. Syria is one country that may be willing to deal with him, however they know they are on our shit list and that would be one more reason for us to invade their country. Chances are at this point they won't take him either.
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Originally posted by chrishaolin
is it important (and if so, how much?) to the outcome of this war that we either a) provide evidence that Saddam and his sons are dead or
apprehend Saddam and his sons if they are still alive? Or will this war still be considered a victory even if Saddam disappears off of the face of the earth without a trace? Just trying to spark some good discussion.. It is very important that either we prove that we killed Saddam and his sons or capture them. A major component of this war was to hold Him and sons accountable for the atrocicitys(sp) that they commited against their people. Bush today announced that exile is not an option for him, that we already gave him a chance to do so.
However Saddam will not allow himself to be captured alive. He would rather die. In his mind if he dies he is a marytr to his people and the Arab world.
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Originally posted by frenchbread
my facts straight...please...
i don't care wether it was a bomb from a plane or a tank...
and for your information:
there was no sniper...
so you get your facts straight...
How do you know there was no sniper? Were you out on the battlefield with those soliders who felt they were being shot at? Now your speculating. You have zero proof to back up your argument.
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Unfortuantely this is starting to take up too much of my time. I don't want to become one of the employed. I will have only myself to blame not Bush. So this is my last post on this thread.
Frenchbread...Neither one of us is going to give an inch to the other. Which is fine you have your views I have mine. But we all know mine are right yours are wrong(jk).
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Originally posted by frenchbread
I
YOU DON'T BACK FACTS UP WITH OPINIONS BUT WITH EVIDENCE!... I have totally given you my opinions on this thread. I have told you how I feel about things in every thread.
[l you are NOT WELL INFORMED at all...
iraq is the world 2nd largest proven oil reserve in the world (after saudi arabia), and on top of that, iraq's oil production cost is amongst the lowest in the world making their oil very attractive to the u.s.govt...
so don't tell me you are well informed!...please...
My question to you then is do you support more drilling in the US? I do, this would alleviate our need some of our need for outside oil sources.
[exactly what i'm talking about...over-simplification to justify actions...
i was right here when the attacks happened...i felt the shockwave of the first tower collapse against my body...
it has affected my life and the life of ones close to me...more than you can imagine...
that doesn't justify going to war against iraq...stop lumping everything together...
and stop cursing...
You are still weaseling your way around the topic. Everyone has been affected and I am not asking how it affected you. Even though I don't know you I am sure 9/11 effected you deeply. I do not question that. I hope you, myself, and the rest of the Country never have to experience that again. I am making a point about the tactics used by anti-war protestors. I feel that it is a disgrace to the dead.
YOU CHECK YOUR FACTS ONCE MORE...
spain: more than 90% of the population is against the war...
that's why after the prime minister's offer to the u.s., he had to retract most of it...and that's why spain is only contributing humanitarian aid...
australia: 53% of the country supported the war...that's hardly the whole country, but only half of it...
britain: same as australia...only 53% supported war...81% wanted u.n support to go to war...
You just supported what I said. You don't need an entire country to support something. I mean c'mon that is impossbile. That only happens in elections in Iraq when Saddam is running unapposed. You will never have an entire country agree.
blood money?...
the people in the u.s. gov't now, are the ones that sold the weapons to hussein in the past...and they have supported him (iran/iraq)...
We did support him at the time. However the weapons he is using right now for the majority are not us made. They are mostly chinese and Russian.
g.w. bush got handed the best u.s. economy in the last 50 years, and in less than 24 months he made it the worst...
lost about 2.5 million jobs...
so bad, that for the first time in u.s. history, the labor unions are against the u.s. president's war...they were marching in d.c. this week...
Bush did not get the best Economy handed to him. It was already begining to fail during the last years of the Clinton Administration. You sound like an intelligent person. So no need to explain that companies were being funded with millions and millions of dollars and not making any profits. Also 9/11 didn't help out our economy any. Clinton had the chance to get Bin Laden and didn't react fast enough. So when he lobbed over the missle Bin laden was already gone.
of course saddam needs to be taken away, and tried for war crimes, crimes against humanity and put in a cell with the key thrown away...
i'm not arguing that...
but you don't see the difference...
because it's all black or white...
You don't think your arguments are black or white. C'mon you are just as stubborn as I am.
hard?...try impossible...
embedded journalist is 3rd reich tactic...that should tell you something...
and as far as peter arnett...
talk about double standard..."he can't tell his personal opinion"...that's what all the pro-war journalists do...
You can't compare embedded journalists now to the 3rd reich that is a little extreme. And no Peter Arnett can't tell his personal opnions to the enemys state run news source. He is a journalist and is supposed to be fair and balanced. Journalists aren't really supposed to express their own views. Dan Rather actually caught a little flack for that a couple of years back.
and again...
you need to go check your facts...
when bush came into office what did he declare as his primary concern?...
terrorism/security crisis?...NO
ENERGY CRISIS!...
When Bush ran for office there were also 2 twin towers still standing at the South End of Manhattan. He had to change his focus. But when I voted for him I voted on his overall agendas. I knew he would be for wars if needed. Not that this thread needs anymore political drama. But I didn't want another Mogadishu on our hands. I personally feel that our country needs a president who is willing to send in the troops.
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Originally posted by siceone
Nice Editorial too bad it's all opinion
I totally agree
People need to learn you can't just cut and paste some article off the internet. This is not a valid argument. What are the authors sources? What are his credentials? Even though this was published in the Guardian, was it written for them? Did they pick it up from another source? And I may be sticking my foot right in my mouth if I am wrong. But the authors last name sounds French.
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Originally posted by frenchbread
you have not quoted straight facts, and in any case, you don't back facts with opinion, you back facts with evidence...(you've obviously been watching too much fox)...
didn't go to afghanistan for oil????...
that's exactly what i mean when i say you need to research on your own and stop repeating what you hear on fox...
it's not because tony snow says it that it makes it so!
do you realize that the owner of fox is a close personal friend of g.w.bush's?...
do you know who the president of afghanistan is?...do you know how he got there?...do you know what he did before?...do you know who put the taliban in place?...
do you know who the people at fox are?...have you any clue as to their background?...
i didn't talk about news story promoted by Iraq...what the hell are you inventing?...
you want objective news and you watch fox????...
all these tv channels that have dug up countless generals for their "analysis" and embedded journalists in army units are as far as possible from objectivity...
tell me how a journalist that spends every hour with the same army unit, and who's life immediately depends on these people can be objective?...i'm impatient to hear your explanation...
france has done wrong by the u.s. and the international community????...
you need to wake up and smell the coffee...the whole world is against the u.s. now...it's not france that alienated itself, it's the u.s....
just think about how after 9/11 every country in the world was ready to help the u.s....and now...everybody is against their imperialistic policy...if france had done wrong, it's france that would be without international support...however it's not like that...
it's the u.s. that went in without u.n. support and against international laws...
and i love it how you can predict what hussein would do...
he would sell wmd to terrorists...
he hasn't done that...he has no wmd...yet you know better...you are in his head, and know what he will do...
on the other hand, u.s. has wmd's...
and what else?...they're using depleted uranium in some of their weapons in iraq...
causing havoc in the city????...
are you out of your mind?...a 10 min traffic delay is havoc?...try 3000 bombs in 48 hours...you can't be serious...
remember wtc?...that was havoc...did you think that was nothing?...trivial?...if you didn't (like i hope), then think about the people living in baghad...it's wtc everyday for them...
supporting the troops?...
i support the troops 100% to come home safe and sound now!...
this is the problem:
the u.s. gov't has always been able to rely on the mass population's support as long as it was able to hide its agenda behind some simple situation...
and this war is no exception...
the mass is just like you...
going for this 5-year old explanation of the situation:
hussein bad...us good...us kill hussein...
do you really think that a situation of this amplitude is that simple?...
the pentagon and the mass media (its extension) is lumping everyting into one just so that they can do everything they want:
9/11 - al-qaeda - taliban - afghanistan - hussein - iraq...
and everybody get ready for the rest of it to come: syria, iran, jordan, saudi arabia...
and then people just like you listen to tony snow trivialize any form of dissent like it's unpatriotic...
i'll tell you what's unpatriotic:
bush and cheney who were AWOL during vietnam, and that are now sending people (my friends) to die...
spending $75Bil on a war that will directly benefit the officials waging it while back home social services are down, job market is down, economy is down...
they don't mind shipping troops and spending $75Bil on the war, yet at the same time, they cut the budget for veterans' benefits...
yea, that sounds like they support the troops...
but you keep believing the fox-fairy-tales...and don't think or research on your own, that could hurt your head...
just watch tv, and eat up...
I don't have time all day to debate this I do have a job to do. First of all in a forum like this you are supposed to base an argument off of facts and your opinion. This argument is all about each persons personal beliefs. So get that straight. You probably only watch Peter Arnett since that bastard is in bed with the enemies. For you to tell me that I don't do any research on my own is total Bullshit!!! Go back to my posts. I am very well informed just because my views are different than yours doesn't mean I live in a fairy tale world.
It is a disgrace that people have the nerve to throw fake body bags in the street. Why don't they just go throw them in the driveways of the people who have lost relatives in the war or 9/11. You asshole!!!
At this point I could care less about what the International Community thinks about the US. And your wrong about them all hating us. Spain, Australia, Britian they are all part of this coalition. Even many leaders in the middle east really don't want Saddam around because they know he is a pain in the ass. They however have to be careful about how they approach the subject. So check your facts.
France is owed over 7billion dollars by Iraq. If you don't think that has any part of why they don't want to go to war your mistaken. They also do a good amount of business with Iraq. That in my mind is Blood Money..
Talk about our economy. Consumer confidence in the market is growing. The Dow rose 200 points last night. In wars like this where a victory can be seen at the end of the tunnel will only help the economy. Jobs will also be created after this war is over when the Gov't begins to hand out contracts for rebuilding. France is already crying over that one. Our weapons cache is also being depleted and we will need workers to begin building up are munitions.
Pull your head out of your ass if you don't think Saddam Hussein would love to terrorize the US in some form. What do you think of him paying Palestanian Suicide Bombers Familys 25k if they blow up the Jews? HUH? YOu don't think he is a terrorist?
About embedded journalists you right it is hard for them to be partial. And that was actually a topic discussed last night on the news. However as an educated person it is up to me to decide what I feel is fact and ficition.
Politics is and always has been about agenda. Every President runs the Country with his own agenda in mind. When you vote for a president one must take that into account. I voted for Bush I believe in his Agenda and feel that he is doing what is best for my saftey.
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Originally posted by frenchbread
you guys can't just type something and expect that this will make it so...
trying researching on your own a little bit...
and "don't believe the hype"...
jesseh49:
we went to afghanistan to get bin laden...
but the real reason is exactly what sassa told you about...
but i guess you didn't know that...
i'm pretty sure you didn't know either that: "on feb. 12, 1998
Unocal VP John J Maresca testified before the House that, until a single, unified friendly government was in place in Afghanistan, the pipeline would not be built."
you need to stop listening to tom brokaw (who btw said on the first day of war "One of the things we don't want to do is destroy the infrastructure in Iraq because in a few days we're going to own that country."...yea that sounds like liberating the iraqi people...) and start getting your information from objective news sources, and not from the pentagon...
First of all I have quoted you straight facts and then backed them up with my opinion. I don't have time to sit here and explain every detail, I am trying to get some work done as I am sure you are as well. Let's get this straight I don't watch Tom Brokaw. By my Strong Pro American views you should have figured out that I am a Fox News Channel Viewer. I summarized on the Afghanistan comments cause as I said I could right 10 pages and still have more to say. That being said. I was just trying to drive across the point that we didn't take Afghanistan for it's oil. Much of what you point out though about Afghanistan took place during the Clinton Administration. I hated Clinton.
You mention getting my news from objectional new sources when you are talking about news stories that are being promoted by Iraq ie...News cameras allowed in at certain times. The majority of news today is going to be slanted one way or another. Individually we have to make our own decisions on what to believe and what not to believe.
This debate on France could go on for days if not years between the two of us. In the end we are both stuck on our views and values. So let me say this I feel that France has done wrong by us and the international community. Of course I do not think the only reason we are in Iraq is to liberate them. I do believe that we are there to protect the US from future terrorist attacks. Saddam himself may not carry them out but he would sell a WMD in a second to any terrorist group targeting the US.
What truly makes me sick though are the protestors in the US who are throwing fake body bags in the streets and trying to cause havoc around the city. Everyone is entiled to their own opinion. Right now though we are in war and our troops need our support. They should be treated like the brave heroes they are.
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Originally posted by sassa
even i think this comment is senseless....
we would have taken it years ago? how is that? please explain yourself.
I was referring to the first Gulf War.
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Originally posted by frenchbread
"we would have taken it years ago"...
really how?...who the hell are you to take it?...
that's called stealing...
well that's what they're doing now...
you need to learn the facts....
u.s. oil ressources are in steep decline...
cheney's commitee has predicted that by 2020, the u.s. will be dependent on foreign oil by 65%...
and that this oil would have to come for un-friendly zones (such as middle east, and africa...)...
the reason they are not attacking venezula is because venezula is selling to the states (1st largest oil import for the u.s.)...
iraq on the other hand has decided to denominate its oil in euros now...and that didn't go to well with the u.s. gov't...(worse even venezulan president announced he would think about doing that too...u.s. officials flipped...)...
u.s. is going into the middle east to install friendly gov'ts so that it can easily get oil out of there...
look at afghanistan...
you learn the facts...
We didn't go into Afghanistan for Oil. We went there to get rid of the Taliban. We would never have gone there if we weren't attacked so let's not bring that into play. We were attacked on US soil and had to defend our Country.
What I meant by we would have taken it years ago I meant during the first Gulf War. And your right who are we to take it. Were not going to take there oil. Yes having a stronghold in the Middle East benefits us with oil prices but for you to not look at how much better the Iraqis lives are going to be is incredible. Who are you to say that they should live under a cruel dictator like Saddam who does not care about his Country but only himself.
You are right that we will have to get Oil from Un friendly Zones but Iraq doesn't have enough oil for us to want to take it. If we really wanted oil we would attack Africa they export more oil to US than Iraq. The majority of our oil comes from US friendly countries.. Mexico, Canada, Saudi Arabia(Yea they don't really like us all that much but for political reasons we do everything possible to try and get along) and Venezuala(I know even they're a bit iffy on the friendly scale).
Right now the Venezualan Gov't isn't liked by there own people so there not going to try and pick a fight with us right now since they are dealing with there own internal problems.
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Originally posted by frenchbread
man you really think this war is waged to liberate the iraqi people...
you must be smoking crack...
i'll spell it out for you
o...i...l...
If we wanted the oil we would have taken it years ago. Second they are #7 on our list of oil importers. We get more oil from Venezuala then we do from them. So why aren't we attacking Venezuala if we are so oil hungry? Learn the facts.
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Originally posted by frenchbread
i mean exactly what i wrote, that inocent civilians are being killed as a result of this war. that does not imply that they are being targeted...
By no means do I want to see innocent civilians killed. But the amount of innocent people that Saddam Brutually tortures and kills is nowhere near the amount of innocent people that are going to die in this war. For you to say they are being killed in OUR NAME is horrible. They are being LIBERATED IN OUR NAME if it was up to France they would go the rest of there lives living in fear. At least the US and Britian have the balls to step up and take care of this problem. After this war is over these people will be able to go about life in a way they could never have imagined before. As I said earlier when we stopped Germany from taking over France in WW2 innocent people were killed. However the outcome of not having Hitler as there leader outweighed the civilian casualties. Everyone who is against this war is taking there freedom for granted and should realize that EVERYONE in the world deserves the same freedom and the fact that the US and Britian have troops who are willing to die for another Country's freedom shows how amazing our Countries really are, and for France to already be talking about how they want a part in rebuilding Iraq makes me sick!
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Originally posted by flying_high
Wow...I think you deserve the "Brainwash of the Month"!!!...please don't you ever switch on your brain...you might be realizing what is going on in this world...
Oh and to your point about the kids that the US troops are saving:
"At least 11 civilians, nine of them children, were killed in Hilla in central Iraq yesterday, according to reporters in the town who said they appeared to be the victims of bombing.
Reporters from the Reuters news agency said they counted the bodies of 11 civilians and two Iraqi fighters in the Babylon suburb, 50 miles south of Baghdad. Nine of the dead were children, one a baby. Hospital workers said as many as 33 civilians were killed.
Terrifying film of women and children later emerged after Reuters and the Associated Press were permitted by the Iraqi authorities to take their cameras into the town. Their pictures – the first by Western news agencies from the Iraqi side of the battlefront – showed babies cut in half and children with amputation wounds, apparently caused by American shellfire and cluster bombs."
Wow talk about your ignorance. Iraq only let's the cameras see what they want them to see. You really believe that we are purposely targeting children? Talk about your brainwash of the month. Why is Iraq hiding weapons in Churces, Schools and Hospitals? So that we inflict more civilian damage on them. They want us to kill their innocent civilians this way they can let cameras in to show the bodies hoping that people as ignorant as you actually believe them. Well I guess it worked.. After this war is over the Iraqis' lives will begin to get better. Yes it is going to take time. However when the next generation of Iraqi children are born they won't have to live under dictatorship and will never be told at the age of 10 to fight for there Country or have you parents killed. They will be the ones who trully benefit from this war. Open your eyes look towards the future.
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Originally posted by frenchbread
[b
jesseh49:
i never said that the u.s. were targeting children...
Then what do you mean by this comment:
and for you information, they are plenty of children "in trouble or danger"...they're in iraq and they're being killed in YOUR name...
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Mine had to be in High School working in a meat market. I use to have to scrub fat off the floors with brillo pads. The pads would start to splinter off into my hands and they would start to bleed and god only knows what was in the scrubbing solution he gave me. But it stung like nothing I have ever felt before.
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Originally posted by frenchbread
and for you information, they are plenty of children "in trouble or danger"...they're in iraq and they're being killed in YOUR name...
You really believe we are targeting children? Actually in the Name of the US and Britian we are saving these childrens lives from a life of terror and dictatorship. Saddam is making them take up arms to fight our troops. He calls them Saddams lions cubs. There was just a battery of weapons found....Where?In a school. If you don't think when we came over to save France's ass that we accidentaly killed some innocent children then your mistaken. So don't use civilian casualitys as an excuse. Yes nobody ever wants to see an innocent person die, however the benfits of what we are doing outweighs those consequences. The Iraqis deserve the same freedom that we gave France.
:aright: 
:laugh:
apprehend Saddam and his sons if they are still alive? Or will this war still be considered a victory even if Saddam disappears off of the face of the earth without a trace? Just trying to spark some good discussion..
The Peacenik Fools have run out of STEAM!!
in Useless Blabber
Posted
I said the NY Times not the LA Times. All of the media does not take a Pro-Bush Pro-War stance. The Gov't does not directly run our media. The whole world isn't out to get you...Or is it?
:laugh: 