diabolik

Facades is no more, they shut down and now its a 21+ place.

I agree with you there. I really enjoy seeing a guy with an Italia track jacket and Italian flag tatoo and the whole nine yards, I just walk up to them and start speaking Italian and they just give me a dumbfounded look. I don't mind anybody bashing wannabe Italian Americans, I was just trying to point out that the pronunciation of certain words that some people consider stupid, ignorant, uneducated etc, is none of the above because those pronunciations come from a language that is not and does not try to be the "italian" that is used as the official language of Italy.

I'm an History major at my university and I'm working on my Italian Studies minor right now. Glad you enjoyed my "cut and paste."

The reason those words are pronounced the way they are is because Italians living in the United States are by the vast majority southerners speaking southern dialects. People that say things like, "MOTTS-A-RELL-A" are Northern Italians whom have their own sperate way of speaking. Neither way is wrong, its like an Englishman saying "Thank You" and a Spaniard saying "Gracias." Italy before 1871 was a country of a few dozen small republics, each having their own seperate language, culture, tradition, etc. The South of Italy was known as The Kingdom of the Two Sicilies and extended from Naples and Campobasso down to Sicily. These areas had heavy linguistic influence from the French, Normans, and Spaniards. When the Northern Italians conquered the South of Italy, they decided to use the dialect of Florence as the national language. They argued that this was the language of Dante and since it was from a central area of the new nation that it would be equally easy to learn by both Northerners and Southerners. A national language was necessary because some of the northern dialects are almost unintelligible from the extreme southern ones. I speak Neapolitan dialect and I have a hard time understanding some of my friends from Calabria and Sicily. Are they speaking wrongly? Of course they're not they are speaking a different language than I am. Unfortunately, many of the young Neapolitans, Sicilians, etc are using their local languages less and less. Parents scold their children for speaking Neapolitan because they feel it will lessen their chances of getting good jobs in the future. The economy of the South is very poor and many young men and women from these areas must go North to find work. In the North their home languages would not be accepted by the Northerners, whom if I may add have a history of xenophobia towards the south of Italy. This is why many people in the major tourist areas in the south (Napoli, Sorrento, Amalfi, Capri) speak "Italian" (florentine dialect) because it is the language which is understood to be Italian and is the easiest to use for commerce, etc. However if you venture outside these areas, particularly to my family's town Piano di Sorrento which is right up the mountain near downtown Sorrento, dialect is the norm and "Italian" is only used outside the home when speaking to non southerners. Regardless of how someone pronounces Mozzarella or Biscotti or Manicotti, you can't say someone is "saying it wrong" because they're saying it in the language of their ancestors. The Northenrers can say it their way and the Southerners can say it their way and we can all get along. Southernes have a right to be proud of their ancestry and their language.

Last summer I spent alot of time in Italy, I'd imagine Rome isn't Ibiza, but I went to my fair share of clubs there and I loved it, which is why ever since I've been looking for decent places to go back home. Anywhere I've gone that was 18+ sucked so I came to this site just asking for advice. I haven't played a video game since I was like 13, and I'm not even much of a drinker so if you want to generalize and treat me like a punk because of my age thats fine man, but if you could help me out and maybe give me some better advice then "sit home and play madden" I'd appreciate it. I realize there's plenty of pricks my age who get their way into decent establishments and make asses out of themselves, but that's not me.

Thanks. I've got plenty of friends who brag about how they were get into all these spots all the time, etc etc, but let's face it they're full of shit. I know finding somewhere where I can get in (legitimately) will be a hassle, but I'll give it a shot.

LOL, I'm sure at 19 you were Mr. Cool weren't you?

At 12:01am I turn 19, and I've been trying to find a good club to go to with my friends (theyre 18+). I wanted to go to Crobar, but I obviously can't get into any of the 21+ places. Any ideas for where to party 18+ on Saturday night in Manhattan?