Claims of a "Massacre"....

[sassa]

Originally posted by cintron

sassa all i said was i thought the article was amusing and informative, and that the reason others may be rude is because we've heard so much about it t hat we're all over saturated.

honestly, chill out. i don't wish to discuss fucked up middle eastern politics and strife and i don't think that makes me moronic. Perhaps i should call you a fucking moron for posting this time and time again? I won't though.

so lay off the insults.

i never said YOU were a moron. and, like i said before...if you don't want tos see this material, don't read it and don't post on it. plain and simple.

sassa

[ender84]

any1 wanna buy free palestine t-shirts?

stop getting so worked up about these things, yes, its great to know about them, but there really isnt much u can do if u get pissed and start yelling.

sassa... if u ever go to one of those activist demonstrations pm me

oh, Cooper Union had one, as soon as US started bombing afghanistan.. they made huge puppets and stuff.... I missed it, but it should of been preatty cool

[breakbeatz2]

i think a little current events doesnt hurt. dont like it, dont read it

so what if sassa's viewpoint is extremely skewed and that the "facts" she claims to say are just fabrications and lies. hundreds dead> i dont tihnk so. massacre? hell no. amassacre is when a palestinian terrorist blows himself up in the middle of an israeli marketplace, or club, or on a bus, etc etc etc

i cant imaigne how someone in the right state of mind could complre Israel's self-defense with the massacres that the Plaestinians are really carrying out.

well, this just shows you how ignorant and foolish so many people are. i am very thankful that Bush at least has his eys open, unlike many people i am seeing posting on this thread....

[sassa]

Originally posted by breakbeatz2

i think a little current events doesnt hurt. dont like it, dont read it

so what if sassa's viewpoint is extremely skewed and that the "facts" she claims to say are just fabrications and lies. hundreds dead> i dont tihnk so. massacre? hell no. amassacre is when a palestinian terrorist blows himself up in the middle of an israeli marketplace, or club, or on a bus, etc etc etc

i cant imaigne how someone in the right state of mind could complre Israel's self-defense with the massacres that the Plaestinians are really carrying out.

well, this just shows you how ignorant and foolish so many people are. i am very thankful that Bush at least has his eys open, unlike many people i am seeing posting on this thread....

...i guess when an israeli soldier kills an entire family without any remorse...when babies and children are shot just for being Palestinian...and when a territory's entire infrastructure has been destroyed...that would not be considered the effects of a massacre?

[cintron]

nope. that's called Terrorist Prevention.

war is hell ain't it.

[sassa]

Originally posted by cintron

nope. that's called Terrorist Prevention.

war is hell ain't it.

no...it's a mass violation of human rights...it's a show of the intense lack of respect israelis have for their palestinian neighbors....it's a crime against humanity..terrorist prevention...how callous and ignorant can you be?

[tribal]

sassa, when did an israeli soldier kill an entire palestinian family simply because they are palestinian? now you are talking out of your ass. i could give you plenty of examples however, of entire israeli families being wiped out by suicide fucknuts who killed them because they were israeli. and stop referring to jenin as a massacre, show some evidence and then talk. there was no massacre, get over it.

[sassa]

Originally posted by tribal

sassa, when did an israeli soldier kill an entire palestinian family simply because they are palestinian? now you are talking out of your ass. i could give you plenty of examples however, of entire israeli families being wiped out by suicide fucknuts who killed them because they were israeli. and stop referring to jenin as a massacre, show some evidence and then talk. there was no massacre, get over it.

.........i am assuming that you have not been there in the past few months, so how can you be sure there wasn't? i think i'd take my friend's word over yours, since his family is from jenin and they've seen the shit firsthand..they say many have died...kind of makes you wonder why israel didn't allow the un fact finding team to investigate....maybe then israel wouldn't be in such a sketchy position...

[cintron]

Originally posted by sassa

no...it's a mass violation of human rights...it's a show of the intense lack of respect israelis have for their palestinian neighbors....it's a crime against humanity..terrorist prevention...how callous and ignorant can you be?

There are mass violations of human rights on both sides. If you pick one to shed some light on, be mindful that those actions were perpetuated in retaliation for similar actions. Is it right? no. They've been doing this for so long that they forgot who threw the first punch, so every new attack demands a retaliatory strike. Eventually there's enough lead flying between the two sides that innocents can and will get caught up in the frenzy, either through being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or because certain factions decide to hide among them, using them as a shield to protect themselves against the israeli army.

As we have seen, the army apparently isn't as careful about noncombatant casualties as the United States in. That is because over there, being careful and taking the time to sort the good guys from the bad guys will give the bad guys enough time to snoop around, crawl up your ass and detonate something. It's obvious you don't understand war and conflict, Sassa. The soldier on the battlefield doesn't have the perspective that we do, sitting here in our armchairs, debating the fairness of it all. War is ugly business and that is a truth proven endlessly through all time. The days of two opposing sides lining up on a battlefield well away from everyone else are long gone. And our expectations of these soldiers are unrealistic if we expect fair play and for them to be as accurate as surgical instruments in only going after the bad people. A soldier who sits and waits for the enemy to show himself is a dead soldier. End of story. These israeli men are doing what real soldiers do - they're scared, they've got guns and scared men with guns sometimes make mistakes, but again, that is war. Until you've donned a uniform and been in a situation where your life is on the line, you will never understand how unrealistic "fair play" is on the battlefield, and how much soldiers could give a fuck about human rights.

The enemy NEVER gives a fuck about human rights.

Callous I am. I won't deny that. Ignorant I am not. I believe with your expectations, that term applies well to you.

[midiman]

Mind you, these figures were taken BEFORE Jenin

This information was found on B'TSlemen: The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories

Fatalities in the al-Aqsa Intifada,: 29 Sept. 2000-9 April 2002

Please note: As of March 31st, 2002, the information provided concerning casualties in the Occupied Territories is only partial, due to difficulties in obtaining information. The figures on casualties within Israel are complete. B'Tselem will continue to update the figures as further information is obtained.

Clarifications

877 Palestinian civilians were killed by Israeli security forces' gunfire in the Occupied Territories, of whom 199 were minors under the age of 18.

Ages of the minors killed: Forty One minors were age 17, Thirty Three were age 16, Thirty Seven were age 15, Thirty were age 14, Twenty One were age 13, Eight were age 12 ,Seven were age 11, Seven were age 10, Three were age 9, Five were age 8, Two were age 7, One was age 6, One was age 5, One was age 4, One was age 3, and One was a four month old baby girl.

At least 64 of the civilians killed were extrajudicially executed by Israel. In the course of these assasinations 14 additional civilians were killed.

232 Palestinian security forces personnel were killed by Israeli security forces' gunfire, including One minor age 17. One of them was extrajudicially executed by Israel and Three were killed during assasinationss of Palestinian civilians.

17 Palestinian civilians were killed by Israeli civilians, including One Two month- old baby girl.

Five foreign Citizens were killed by Israeli security forces gunfire.

113 Israeli civilians were killed by Palestinians, 13 of them were minors under the age of 17: Two were aged 17, Three were age 16, Four were age 14, One was age 13, One was age 11, One was a 10 month-old baby girl and One was a 5 month-old baby boy. At least Six of them were allegedly killed by persons affiliated with the pna

Five foreign citizens were killed by Palestinian civilians.

85 members of the Israeli security forces were killed by Palestinian civilians.

Eight members of the Israeli security forces were killed by Palestinian security forces gunfire.

At least 34 Palestinian civilians were killed by Palestinians due to suspicion of collobarting with israel. Some of them had Israeli citizenship. Two of them were executed by the Palestinian authority and Four were killed by Palestinian security forces.

Three Palestinian civilians were killed by Palestinian civilians after being convicted in the murder of a Palestinian security officer who had killed Palestinians suspected of collaboration with Israel.

One 12 year old boy was killed by armed palestinians during a confrontation with palestinian civilians who were trying to prevent them from shooting at Idf posts

Eleven Palestinian civilians, Three of them minors, were killed by Palestinians security forces in circumstances unrelated to suspicion of collaborating with israel .

Within Israel

22 Palestinian civilians, residents of the Occupied Territories, were killed by Israeli security forces gunfire. One of those killed was a minor aged 14.

Six members of the Palestinian security forces were killed by Israeli security forces gunfire.

170 Israeli civilians were killed by Palestinians, residents of the Occupied Territories. 39 of them were minors under the age of 18. Of them: Six were age 17, Seven were age 16, Ten were age 15, Five were age 14, One was age 13, One was age 12, One was age 10, One was age 8, One was age 7, One was age 4, One was age 3, One was a two years old baby, One was a Eighteen month old baby, One was a nine month old baby, and One was a seven month old baby. Ten of the Israeli civilians were killed by members of the Palestinian security forces.

Seven foreign citizens were killed by Palestinian civilians. One of them was a minor, age 16.

32 members of the Israeli security forces were killed by Palestinian civilians residents of the Occupied Territories.One of them was killed by a member of the Palestinian security forces.

[midiman]

also, why is it so hard for you to people to believe that Sharon could have ordered a massacre at Jenin. Are you not familiar with what he did in Lebanon in 1982. The massacres in Sabra and Shatilla where thousands of civilian Palestinians were butchered. If not, take a look at the pictures....if you can stomach it. Mind you they are very graphic.

There will be no peace with both Sharon and Arafat in office. BOth must go. Sharon is a butcher, Arafat is an idiot.

http://www.geocities.com/shatila1982/masspictures.html

[cintron]

hmmm. seems like the armies aren't slitting the throats of the right people. Maybe they should aim for people higher up in the chain of command.