Why The Fuck Do We Support Israel?

[Evan]

I understand what you are saying, but I disagree with the logic. If the next madman decided to blow up Hollywood, because there were to man "indecent" films being made there, would we sit down afterwords and think "Maybe we should change Hollywoods films""? If the next madman blew up the London Bridge in England because they support US Policy, should they rethink their status with us?

Their are diplomatic ways to acheive goals. There are ways to show through non violence your plight. Ghandi showed us this. Their is the UN. There is the media.

I know all Muslims cannot be bunched up into one category. I apologize if that was they way i came across. It's the same with jews. You can not say they are all money hungry. My exgirlfriend of 1-2 years was Egyptian (catholic though, not Muslim) There are different people doing different things. But ask your Muslim friends about the radicals in their religion. Their goal is for the extermination of anyone that doesn't believe in Allah. If you tried walking down the Gazaa strip, you would have stones thrown at you in a minute. These people are taught from birth that they are the greater nation, and that we should be wiped clean. NO other religion has this belief. Ask yourself one other question. If you gave them Israel, where would the current Israeli's go to? They don't have all the land that the Arabs have to move to. How would the Arabs treat them once they took over? And then would would the radicals want next?

Evan

[kramadas]

Originally posted by Evan

I understand what you are saying, but I disagree with the logic. If the next madman decided to blow up Hollywood, because there were to man "indecent" films being made there, would we sit down afterwords and think "Maybe we should change Hollywoods films""? If the next madman blew up the London Bridge in England because they support US Policy, should they rethink their status with us?

Their are diplomatic ways to acheive goals. There are ways to show through non violence your plight. Ghandi showed us this. Their is the UN. There is the media.

I know all Muslims cannot be bunched up into one category. I apologize if that was they way i came across. It's the same with jews. You can not say they are all money hungry. My exgirlfriend of 1-2 years was Egyptian (catholic though, not Muslim) There are different people doing different things. But ask your Muslim friends about the radicals in their religion. Their goal is for the extermination of anyone that doesn't believe in Allah. If you tried walking down the Gazaa strip, you would have stones thrown at you in a minute. These people are taught from birth that they are the greater nation, and that we should be wiped clean. NO other religion has this belief. Ask yourself one other question. If you gave them Israel, where would the current Israeli's go to? They don't have all the land that the Arabs have to move to. How would the Arabs treat them once they took over? And then would would the radicals want next?

Evan

The Arabs wouldn't treat them any less than the Israelis treat the Palestinians currently.

[Evan]

Are you high on crack? Are you just reading what is in the media or do you have first hand knowledge? The Israeli's EMPLOY Palastenians. The Israeli's let Palenstinians come into their country. I have NEVER seen or heard of Israeli's being emplyed by Palastenians. You see, Isaeli's are willing to work with Arabd because they know it's only the fanatics that are dangerous. It's not the pother way around.

When you see on TV Palastenians crying about some young child being shot, you have to remember that the terrorists were hding in the schoiol that the child was in. The Arabs put them in danger, not the Israelis. They use this as an excuse to show the horror that Israelis make when they go to defend their country. If a gunamn went into a highschool in the US there would be huge public outcry. In the Middle East, the gunmen ARE TEACHING THE CLASS! Again, I ask you....Look at both sides before you open your mouth about a subject you don't know or understand. Better yet, go to an Arab nation and see how you are treated. I am not saying Muslims are evil. There are just diffent sects. Just like Christianity has Protestand and Catholic sects and the Jews have Orthodox and Reformed, the Muslims have theirs. The Fanatic sects wants ALL non belivers wiped off this planet wether or not we support Israel. Before you post again, find a practicing Muslim and ask him what he thinks of these fanatics. He'll tell you the same thing.

Evan

[sassa]

Originally posted by Evan

Are you high on crack? Are you just reading what is in the media or do you have first hand knowledge? The Israeli's EMPLOY Palastenians. The Israeli's let Palenstinians come into their country. I have NEVER seen or heard of Israeli's being emplyed by Palastenians. You see, Isaeli's are willing to work with Arabd because they know it's only the fanatics that are dangerous. It's not the pother way around.

When you see on TV Palastenians crying about some young child being shot, you have to remember that the terrorists were hding in the schoiol that the child was in. The Arabs put them in danger, not the Israelis. They use this as an excuse to show the horror that Israelis make when they go to defend their country. If a gunamn went into a highschool in the US there would be huge public outcry. In the Middle East, the gunmen ARE TEACHING THE CLASS! Again, I ask you....Look at both sides before you open your mouth about a subject you don't know or understand. Better yet, go to an Arab nation and see how you are treated. I am not saying Muslims are evil. There are just diffent sects. Just like Christianity has Protestand and Catholic sects and the Jews have Orthodox and Reformed, the Muslims have theirs. The Fanatic sects wants ALL non belivers wiped off this planet wether or not we support Israel. Before you post again, find a practicing Muslim and ask him what he thinks of these fanatics. He'll tell you the same thing.

Evan

ok, this is fine and all, but this doesn't explain anything...I understand the need to defend where you're from, but not everyone from one group are the same..I would NEVER classify Sharon in a group that had other Israelis I knew in it. He's a sick pig that needs to be shot for the crimes he has committed against humanity. Arafat is no better, milking international funds for his own uses. Both sides suck. The people are not at fault though. I'm sure no one wants to go through war and destruction, but thanks to the vices of a few assholes, they are.

We are all pawns in a huge game of chess...and someone is losing badly right now.

[dnice35]

We are all pawns in a huge game of chess...and someone is losing badly right now.

[tribal]

the problem with european and some american leftist 'intellectuals' is that they are very naiive, if well meaning. to whoever wants to understand the mentality of an israeli, living in a hostile environment, read an excellent book called 'In the Land of ISrael' by Amos Oz, a famous israeli writer. there is no good guys and bad guys in this conflict. many here dont seem to understand that.

[tribal]

also want to add to Evan's observations. there is this whole misconception, that if israel was to just withdraw today, to the green line, just like it wanted to do before this murderous antifda started again, that there would suddenly be peace. take the blanket off your eyes ladies and gentelemen. the problem with most arabic nations, including the palestinian people, is that their own governments are rotten, ill concieved, science and technology is non existence, and religious fanaticisism runs rampant. dont get me wrong, israel must stop their illegal settlements, and recognize the validity of palestinian aspirations. BUT, the arab side must do exponentially more. with the amount of media coverage and sympathy that the palestinians recieve daily, there is no excuse why their society is in collapse, why their children want to be suicide killers and not doctors and teachers. they fucked up, ill be straightforward here, yes, they fucked up. they had an offer on a table, yes, not everything they wanted, but a generous offer that was the best they would ever get out of an israeli government. instead of building on mutual trust and compromise, they chose the way of the gun, and the belt bomb. i dont blame the israelis one bit, for protecting their own citizens. it is something i would expect my govt to do for me, as a citizen of a state.

[t0nythelover]

so are arabs supposed to be grateful for being allowed to live and work in israel even though it was their land to begin with? i guess native americans should be glad they got reservations for free too right?

[tribal]

so are arabs supposed to be grateful for being allowed to live and work in israel even though it was their land to begin with? i guess native americans should be glad they got reservations for free too right?

asswipe, do everyone a favor and move back to whatever backward shithole your ancestors came from. who are you to give out lessons in anthropology and who lived where first? for your information ignoramus, israelis lived in that area since the dawn of civilization, much much longer than pre ottoman turk transjordan. why are you here anyway? you think that our govt bombed Bali, you think we should give indians all the land back, and that our govt creates terrorists. why do you suck off our system, while hating your own nation? you are nothing but a parasite. how old are you anyway? your thinking and reasoning rivals a 3 year old child. fuck why am i even replying to this filth.

[Drunk]

Originally posted by tribal

so are arabs supposed to be grateful for being allowed to live and work in israel even though it was their land to begin with? i guess native americans should be glad they got reservations for free too right?

asswipe, do everyone a favor and move back to whatever backward shithole your ancestors came from. who are you to give out lessons in anthropology and who lived where first? for your information ignoramus, israelis lived in that area since the dawn of civilization, much much longer than pre ottoman turk transjordan. why are you here anyway? you think that our govt bombed Bali, you think we should give indians all the land back, and that our govt creates terrorists. why do you suck off our system, while hating your own nation? you are nothing but a parasite. how old are you anyway? your thinking and reasoning rivals a 3 year old child. fuck why am i even replying to this filth.

I agree 100%.

[djxeno]

Originally posted by tribal

also want to add to Evan's observations. there is this whole misconception, that if israel was to just withdraw today, to the green line, just like it wanted to do before this murderous antifda started again, that there would suddenly be peace. take the blanket off your eyes ladies and gentelemen. the problem with most arabic nations, including the palestinian people, is that their own governments are rotten, ill concieved, science and technology is non existence, and religious fanaticisism runs rampant. dont get me wrong, israel must stop their illegal settlements, and recognize the validity of palestinian aspirations. BUT, the arab side must do exponentially more. with the amount of media coverage and sympathy that the palestinians recieve daily, there is no excuse why their society is in collapse, why their children want to be suicide killers and not doctors and teachers. they fucked up, ill be straightforward here, yes, they fucked up. they had an offer on a table, yes, not everything they wanted, but a generous offer that was the best they would ever get out of an israeli government. instead of building on mutual trust and compromise, they chose the way of the gun, and the belt bomb. i dont blame the israelis one bit, for protecting their own citizens. it is something i would expect my govt to do for me, as a citizen of a state.

Tell me why the fuck they are there in the first place? Your motherfuckin' country changes its borders every fuckin day! How can you fuckin expect peace?!?! Explain that! By your logic you are saying "Yeah come to my city, destroy my house, murder my children and I will be cool with everything you do here and i won't do anything to fight back."

I'm sorry the Palestinians don't get 3 billion a year like you Isreali's so you can build your precise schools and universities so you all can become doctors and laywers. It's a shame the schools the Palestinians do have, are defunct cuz of the curfews.

Oh yeah, science and technologys is non-existent. Hey well maybe if everything didn't get bulldozed every hour because of "suspected terrorits" maybe the Palestinian youth would have a place where they could learn.

We suck Israel's cock everyday and tell me what do we get in return? Even Ariel Sharon doesnt listen to Bush and you know that's a fact. Tell me, once again, what the fuck do we get in return?

The ONLY reason we send them money is so Israel can be more powerful than the surrouding Muslim countries.

Tell me Tribal, since you are jewish, yet you don't beleive in God, do you Jews believe you are the chosen people and everybody else is just shark meat.

That's the mentally that seems to be practiced within the Israeli goverment.

Personally, I beleive that God would make a covenant based on faith, not race. Seems more logical to me, I doubt God is a racist.

Chapter 5

69. Those who believe (in the Qurán), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

70. We took the covenant of the Children of Israel and sent them messengers, every time, there came to them and a messenger with what they themselves desired not - some (of these) they called impostors, and some they (go so far as to) slay.

71. They thought there would be no trial (or punishment); so they became blind and deaf; yet Allah (in mercy) turned to them; yet again many of them became blind and deaf. But Allah sees well all that they do.

Watch out Israel !

-XeNo-

[tribal]

xeno, leave religion out of this. i told you, personally, i dont believe any of that chosen people non sense, and the vast majority of israelis are secular and not religious. islam and judaism are very similar, and both have elements that believe themselves to be superior or 'more chosen' than others. its like Tom Friedman said, some muslims see their religion as God 3.0 where judaism is God 1.0 and christianity is God 2.0. its all horseshit to me. religion is not the most vital issue anyways.

please explain to me why this antifada started in 2000. yes, you will tell me its sharon who started it, but one man can not be a logical reason for a 2 year old war that caused so much destruction. explain to me why after all the progress of post Oslo with the palestinian economy vibrant, future bright, the palestinians shove it all in the toilet, after arafat walks out on clinton. is it the settlements? the 'occupying' IDF? during Oslo, the settlements were being reduced, and taken apart in many areas, and IDF presense in areas A-C was almost non existent, because the PA police administered those areas.

once again, whats the reasoning behind this antifada? the PA along with their more extreme counterparts wanted to emulate hezbulla's actions in south lebanon, hoping for some sort of an israeli withdrawal. where? i guess into the sea. right now, the PA and hamas are re evaluating their strategy, groups that bear all the responsibility and reasons for IDF being in PA areas once again. back during Oslo, PA police kept check on hamas and islamic jihad cells, and violence inside israel was low. guess fucking what!!! no IDF in palst areas, no targeted assassinations of terrorists, no bulldozing of homes. its a very simple solution. stop blowing up israeli civilian targets, stop supporting this culture of death and suicide, rebuild your future. the palestinians can blame the entire world but themselves, but in the end, they will bear responsibilty for their own fate.

[tribal]

btw, xeno, you talk about judaism being racist. have you ever heard a mufti speak about jews in places like qatar, S arabia and kuwait? many other arab contries as well. i saw a transcript of a morning show, out of s arabia, where the reporter went around to little kids in a mosque, and asked them what they thoght of jews. the people inside the mosques refererd to the jews as pigs, infidels and other colorful names. all this on national tv. Good Morning S Arabia!! who do you hate today?

you wanna talk about racism in religion, islam needs more overhaul than ever. just a tip from an infidel.

[djxeno]

Um....actually you being a Jew does not make you an infidel. Did you not read verse 69 I posted? However, you not believing in God would make you an infidel.

You made a point about Islam needing an overhaul. You are right that the hatred of Jews is taught but however that is not taught in the religion. However Judaism (the actual religion) teaches that you are the "chosen people."

There is nothing of the sort in Islam. Judaism even discourages converts, while we embrace them. Since Judaism is a racial thing, converts dont make any sense, however they still exist.

I just told you before that Allah rewards you due to your faith, not your race.

You talk about how Muslims are taught to hate Jews, well I can say the same that Jews are taught that they are superior to everybody else.

What really disgusts me tribal is that you believe your precious IDF is completely innocent and a moral example to all of the militaries of the world.

I know you won't believe any word of what my freind wrote, but please read his first hand account of Jenin when he went over there in June.

http://bbs.clubplanet.com/showthread.php?threadid=123076

-XeNo-

[sassa]

Originally posted by tribal

so are arabs supposed to be grateful for being allowed to live and work in israel even though it was their land to begin with? i guess native americans should be glad they got reservations for free too right?

asswipe, do everyone a favor and move back to whatever backward shithole your ancestors came from. who are you to give out lessons in anthropology and who lived where first? for your information ignoramus, israelis lived in that area since the dawn of civilization, much much longer than pre ottoman turk transjordan. why are you here anyway? you think that our govt bombed Bali, you think we should give indians all the land back, and that our govt creates terrorists. why do you suck off our system, while hating your own nation? you are nothing but a parasite. how old are you anyway? your thinking and reasoning rivals a 3 year old child. fuck why am i even replying to this filth.

tribal....why did you have to go and fuck up the thread with insults? keep it cool, please. we are all having an intellectual discussion here, no need for bullshit. igloo hasn't surfaced so don't be his replacement.

toda raba, haver!

[tribal]

sorry sassa, stupidity gets under my skin i suppose.

xeno, look, i wont discuss religion, i know very little of both faiths, im not an expert. i think both are obsolete to tell you the truth, so lets leave religion alone. every religion has its quircks, and these 2 are no different

about IDF, im not denying that they do things that are brutal and against UN conventions. i know they do it. they arent innocent, no one in this conflict is innocent. thats a naiive perspective. IDF does what it does because they are forced to do it. they didnt want to go into jenin with D-9 bulldozers and level those homes. you have hamas to thank for that. no israeli wants to be in palst territories, but extremist groups are forcing them back in, to destroy terror centers, like Jenin. stop suicide bombers, stop the attacks, and the IDF will not go in there, its been done before during Oslo. once again, israelis do not want to be there, there is nothing for israel to gain by deploying its army in palst civilian areas. hamas has single handedly ended the peace process.