Pack It Up Miami/sobe, I Told You Its Ova, And It Is...

[pod]

It's not really stress, it's more of an irritation I think to everyone. Whenever a jacked up escalade full of Jay-Z wannabes goes by, it just irritates the hell out of me.

[Guest saleen351]

forgot us that are from chi town, nyc, nj, philly, miami la and other major areas, but what about the family from bum fuck idaho who saved their money to come see what sobe has to offer them and when they get here its a scene out of a NWA video?

perception is truth...

ps philly is the worlds biggest shit hole...

but decca and shampoo were tons of fun back in the day...

[guyman1966]

Originally posted by voluptuary

Do you wear a KKKlansman outfit out at night?

Ummmmm..... the answer to that question is a NO! And, just as an FYI - you can't pull the race card on me.

Originally posted by voluptuary

Can anyone state specifically the element we are talking about.

Yes. Specifically the element I am talking about are the Hookers who were walking Collins Ave at 4A (at least 15-20) and the wanna-b-hoods that are driving their daddy’s' cars with the windows down listening to Rap music way too loud while yelling obscenities at pedestrians. These assholes also walk the streets in groups yelling at folks. They can be Black, White, or Hispanic (sometimes groups have all three). They can be both men and women, but usually boyz. They are ages 15-20. You can also ID them by the abundance of fake jewelry, turned baseball caps and fact that they have no set destination, just cruising looking 4 something to do.

And, about the "Stress" you mention... If SoBe wants to continue to attract 100,000 visitors a week (like Sobeton mentioned), our guests, especially the ones from Europe (who only hear the horror stories about how dangerous the USA is), need to feel safe. Hoods and punks in packs do not contribute to the betterment of our society.

[voluptuary]

pod... I laugh at such scenes. It doesn't irritate me. Why does it have that effect on you. It reminds me of a Nietzsche aphorism: "The vanity of others offends our taste only when it offends our vanity". Come now, the "Boss of all bosses" needs a bit more steel in his spine. No offense i hope. I only say this because i respect what you say on the CP forums. You seem like an intelligent, sensible guy.

Now the bumpkins from "bum fuck idaho" might be appalled with these tinhorn thugs, but after all they're bumpkins from "bum fuck idaho". This isn't the backwater. Maybe such exposure would open their worlds up a bit. And that's not a bad thing.

[voluptuary]

pod... I laugh at such scenes. It doesn't irritate me. Why does it have that effect on you. It reminds me of a Nietzsche aphorism: "The vanity of others offends our taste only when it offends our vanity". Come now, the "Boss of all bosses" needs a bit more steel in his spine. No offense I hope. I only say this because i respect what you say on the CP forums. You seem like an intelligent, sensible guy.

Now the bumpkins from "bum fuck idaho" might be appalled with these tinhorn thugs, but after all they're bumpkins from "bum fuck idaho". This isn't the backwater. Maybe such exposure to the atrocious element in society would open their worlds up a bit. And that's not a bad thing.

[thehog]

And, about the "Stress" you mention... If SoBe wants to continue to attract 100,000 visitors a week (like Sobeton mentioned), our guests, especially the ones from Europe (who only hear the horror stories about how dangerous the USA is), need to feel safe. Hoods and punks in packs do not contribute to the betterment of our society.

Exactly

People come here for the post card images. They see the beaches, clean streets and beautiful people. Then they get here and it is thugs hollering @ there wife’s and trashy ass bums every where, so they go home and tell all there friends about it. I think these issues may have as much impact on the tourism as the economy.

I don't think gyman is talking racist and prejudice remarks. He is just stating the hard facts.

[voluptuary]

GuyMan...Wasn't insinuating any racist sentiments on your part. I'm just being cheeky.

As for European tourists.....the urban centers in Europe are twice as bad as SoBe could ever conceivably be. Also, Europeans are less likely to be put off by that sort of thing. They either won't comprehend it completely or see it as an exotic experience. Really, when have you ever seen a group of hoodlums howl at a couple of middle-aged German tourists? "Yo, yo, yo...what's up fraulein...come home with me tonight"

Yes , you see the Jay-Z wanna-bes once in a while, but only if you hang outside of Club Deep.

Think about it. Hip hop is all about achieving the status of the rich, attractive people living on the hill. Is it any wonder why we see this phenomenon? Hoods gawking at the gilded set of SoBe.

[pod]

The irritation stems from wishing for the days when it wasn't so common, I guess. Grant it, I do laugh my ass off too...I wonder if they realize how annoying they are? Anyone who's tried to tell them has probably been beat down...I should wear my patented "I shot Tupac" T-shirt one day...They congregate around the 600 block sure, but the cheapest parking is at 17th, so invariably you bump into them while they're en route.

[guyman1966]

Originally posted by voluptuary

As for European tourists.....the urban centers in Europe are twice as bad as SoBe could ever conceivably be. Also, Europeans are less likely to be put off by that sort of thing.

The URBAN Europeans would not be put off, but they are not the ones with the ca$h to travel here. Its the folks in the burbs, who read about shooting in the USA that we need to attract. Have you had the opportunity to visit Europe? If not, just listen to BBC news reports or go online and read some of their papers. They think we are a very violent culture. And, based on watching our TV programs and Rap videos, they are right. Our street thugs don’t help that image.

Originally posted by voluptuary

Really, when have you ever seen a group of hoodlums howl at a couple of middle-aged German tourists? "Yo, yo, yo...what's up fraulein...come home with me tonight"

Last Sat night @ 4A, during my walk from Mynt to 10th and Collins, I witnessed a group of hoodlums yelling at middle-aged tourists.

Since you don’t see these punks as a problem, why don’t you invite them over to your home for some drinks? You can “chill” with them and maybe pick up a few fashion tips. I’m not trying to be a smart-ass (maybe just a little), but if you are so “down” with them “just ax them Ova”.

[thehog]

Really, when have you ever seen a group of hoodlums howl at a couple of middle-aged German tourists?

YEs they howl @ any half way decent female and it is not just near club deeb, they are every where.

[voluptuary]

GuyMan

I'm not "down" with the homeboys. I simply don't feel threatened or fazed by them. They're part of the tapestry, an oddity really. Maybe it's because they seem transparent to me. I know what's behind their behavior. Actually, can't help feel sorry for them, because they're NEVER going to get what they desire. They are losers in the rat race my friends, remember that. It's funny and pathetic.

And now Europe....the people over there who view the US as a violent place with a aggressive culture aren't, of course, the people buying plane tickets to visit us.

Secondly you can't get a true sense of a nations attitude just by reading its newspapers. Most Euro journalists are a product of the leftist, anti-American institutions of education anyway. And maybe a little out of touch with the populace.

Believe it or not, hoodlumness is an international phenomenon.

I'm sure the incident you witnessed was an aberration. And what were they yelling? "Hey you Swedes! Go back to Stockholm"

I know these guys just love to hood and mash the chicks, but most of the girls that get that are, in spite of any outward signs of remonstrance, really flattered in their heart of hearts. The ladies just love the attention. Nothing, when it comes to it, matters more. To be seen, and to be desired.

Oh yeah.....and hookers.....who gives a shit about hookers. Not me.

[corinto]

They think we are a very violent culture

In this case, you have to blame the government of the US, not the rappers...

I really don't understand some poeple in this board, sometimes they're fighting how we all should get along, and that south beach is pretetntious, etc..next second they're talking like a group of Fascist Pigs ready to get ammunition to start cleansing the streets...

:(

I feel so damn safe at the beach, maybe you guys feel scared because of all that hatred you have against "the others" that won't leave you calm. Stop the hate and then things will improve faster.

Peace.

[Guest saleen351]

why did this get moved. This is the exact topic and dicussion CP is for... :confused:

[lolahotass]

Yeah no doubt. This was a good conversation...

SHizniTs:(

Lola:D

[anteye]

What do you think would happen to a group of rednecks if they cruised around the ghetto and started yelling offensive remarks at pedestrians, while blaring bluegrass music out of their monster truck?

What would happen to a satanist that attended Sunday mass wearing a "God Sucks" t-shirt and yelled obscenities to all the little old ladies?

How welcomed would a Fidel supporter be if he drove around Hialeah with a banner that said "You are all traitors" strapped to the side of his car while blasting communist propaganda?

Fact of the matter is that there is a thing called Mutual Respect for your fellow human being. And those who fail to show it deserve to be ostracized. All of the scenarios mentioned above have to do with idiots, who can only be perceived as trouble makers, looking to pick a fight.

Oddly enough, none of these things ever happen. Is it because rednecks, satanists and communists are characteristically respectful groups of people? NO. It's because they know that there are grave consequences for pulling shit like that. Why don't hoods show the same restraint? Is it because they're so tuff? NO. It's because civilized people let it slide.

Now, if you're all about the flowers and hands across America kind of thing, cool. Some people are content with watching their world to turn to shit to avoid political incorrectness. They'll say things like, "To curb the rights of others, is to curb my own." Well, y'know what, I don't need the right to harass random pedestrians while I blast vulgar music from my car. I don't need the right to ominously gawk at a woman while 15 of my gang member buddies obstruct her path.

Where do you think allowing this type of behavior leads? In some latin american countries, groups of 30+ teenage males stalk the streets looking for young girls to gang rape. These events are not initiations or turf wars, its recreation to them. How long do you think it will be before that type of shit happens here if hoods continue to go unsuppressed? 15-20 years? If so, than if you have a daughter in the near future, she will be old enough to experience this first hand. A foot note to this example, if you remember a few months ago, is that a group of 6 men ranging in age from 16 to 35 kidnapped a teenage couple. They critically wounded the male before throwing him from the car onto the highway. The girl was gang raped and murdered. All because the couple decided to have a romantic stroll on South Beach.

I realize that the scenarios depicted above are extreme. I have been accused of that many times, and it would be nothing new to me if I were to hear it from you all as well. My only reply is that if you are not prepared to deal with the extreme, than you and the ones you love will most certainly be among its first casualties.

[guyman1966]

Originally posted by anteye

My only reply is that if you are not prepared to deal with the extreme, than you and the ones you love will most certainly be among its first casualties.

Thank you for that wonderful post! The entire post is great. Its beautifully written and extremely well thought out. I forgot about that horrible story about the young couple.

WHY WAS THIS THREAD MOVED TO DRAMA?

[lavosdeldiablo]

Originally posted by anteye

What do you think would happen to a group of rednecks if they cruised around the ghetto and started yelling offensive remarks at pedestrians, while blaring bluegrass music out of their monster truck?

What would happen to a satanist that attended Sunday mass wearing a "God Sucks" t-shirt and yelled obscenities to all the little old ladies?

How welcomed would a Fidel supporter be if he drove around Hialeah with a banner that said "You are all traitors" strapped to the side of his car while blasting communist propaganda?

Fact of the matter is that there is a thing called Mutual Respect for your fellow human being. And those who fail to show it deserve to be ostracized. All of the scenarios mentioned above have to do with idiots, who can only be perceived as trouble makers, looking to pick a fight.

Oddly enough, none of these things ever happen. Is it because rednecks, satanists and communists are characteristically respectful groups of people? NO. It's because they know that there are grave consequences for pulling shit like that. Why don't hoods show the same restraint? Is it because they're so tuff? NO. It's because civilized people let it slide.

Now, if you're all about the flowers and hands across America kind of thing, cool. Some people are content with watching their world to turn to shit to avoid political incorrectness. They'll say things like, "To curb the rights of others, is to curb my own." Well, y'know what, I don't need the right to harass random pedestrians while I blast vulgar music from my car. I don't need the right to ominously gawk at a woman while 15 of my gang member buddies obstruct her path.

Where do you think allowing this type of behavior leads? In some latin american countries, groups of 30+ teenage males stalk the streets looking for young girls to gang rape. These events are not initiations or turf wars, its recreation to them. How long do you think it will be before that type of shit happens here if hoods continue to go unsuppressed? 15-20 years? If so, than if you have a daughter in the near future, she will be old enough to experience this first hand. A foot note to this example, if you remember a few months ago, is that a group of 6 men ranging in age from 16 to 35 kidnapped a teenage couple. They critically wounded the male before throwing him from the car onto the highway. The girl was gang raped and murdered. All because the couple decided to have a romantic stroll on South Beach.

I realize that the scenarios depicted above are extreme. I have been accused of that many times, and it would be nothing new to me if I were to hear it from you all as well. My only reply is that if you are not prepared to deal with the extreme, than you and the ones you love will most certainly be among its first casualties.

Matt EXCELLENT post!!!

Voluptuary-

I'm missing your point "your not fazed by them" that just seems like "it'll never happen to me type attitude"... and i hope it doesnt... "Hoodlums are an international phenomenon" is that a reason to allow it?!?!?

"Hey you Swedes! Go back to Stockholm" does it really matter what they were yelling"???

Of course im not gonna stop going to SoBe or anywhere else for that matter, but how can u not acknowledge the situation getting worse????

[thehog]

Of course im not gonna stop going to SoBe or anywhere else for that matter, but how can u not acknowledge the situation getting worse????

thats what im saying.

if I whanted to see thugs I would go to Philly

[voluptuary]

Just realized this thread was re-located to a new forum.

Look, we are not talking about rapists, murderers and scofflaws. The element we have been discussing are the obnoxious, odious, and clueless. Sometimes all these attributes converge into one rotten individual. SoBe isn't a scene from A Clockwork Orange.

I know it's easy for a grown man who can take care of himself to blithely dismiss these alarming things. I don't condone the behavior. But it always will be there. I just don't see it as the overwhelming presence that is being portrayed in these posts.

But put all this aside....this is my main point. The thug, hip-hop culture is about attaining a level of glamor and power, wealth and women and so forth. It arises from an abject condition, and therefore is fueled by a frenzied yearning for what is bold and beautiful. The devotee of this culture looks at a place like SoBe and his heart skips a beat. Yes, this is where i want to be. For some reason assimilation isn't in the formula. No, 'well if i want to be here, i must act like the natives'. My thinking is that pride is at work here. They want to stay loyal to origins. The point here being...we shouldn't be surprised that the gold attracts the thieves.

ps. lavosdeldiablo: My point "Hoodlums are an international phenomenon" addressed the issue of Europeans' being appalled with this when they visit.

[guyman1966]

HEY VOLUPTUARY:

A thread* is a lot like a Shark. In order to live and survive it must keep moving forward. What we have here is a dead shark. I guess the whole world is wrong and you are right. I’m done here.

*The word THREAD can be substituted with the word RELATIONSHIP.

[lavosdeldiablo]

....this is my main point. The thug, hip-hop culture is about attaining a level of glamor and power, wealth and women and so forth. It arises from an abject condition, and therefore is fueled by a frenzied yearning for what is bold and beautiful. The devotee of this culture looks at a place like SoBe and his heart skips a beat. Yes, this is where i want to be. For some reason assimilation isn't in the formula. No, 'well if i want to be here, i must act like the natives'. My thinking is that pride is at work here. They want to stay loyal to origins. The point here being...we shouldn't be surprised that the gold attracts the thieves

Volutuary-

I understand what your saying...However you've just explained WHY this "culture" behaves this way... Does that make it right?!?!

Even though the possibilty of Rape and Murder is all too real...

Should it be allowed even on a smaller scale (fights/ Confrontations, etc)?!?!? Fine those things are gonna happen regardless... I just think they would be less frequent, if the people with nothing to do were forced to go elsewhere???

[anteye]

Thanks guyman and JT for the props on the post. This is a topic which really gets me going, and I had some time to kill.

Originally posted by voluptuary

The thug, hip-hop culture is about attaining a level of glamor and power, wealth and women and so forth. It arises from an abject condition, and therefore is fueled by a frenzied yearning for what is bold and beautiful. The devotee of this culture looks at a place like SoBe and his heart skips a beat. Yes, this is where i want to be. For some reason assimilation isn't in the formula. No, 'well if i want to be here, i must act like the natives'. My thinking is that pride is at work here. They want to stay loyal to origins. The point here being...we shouldn't be surprised that the gold attracts the thieves.

voluptuary...

I think what you're leaving out is that the hip-hop culture drives people to attain the things you mentioned by taking advantage of and hurting others. Not by working hard, not by being the best at something, not by having original ideas... but by being the most violent, the most fearless and the most dishonest. The danger comes when a group of those people want it bad enough.

I just don't think it's an element that should be hanging around our places of recreation. I go out to enjoy myself and be carefree. How am I supposed to do that if I constantly have to be on guard?

[pod]

Originally posted by corinto

ready to get ammunition to start cleansing the streets...

I feel so damn safe at the beach, maybe you guys feel scared because of all that hatred you have against "the others" that won't leave you calm. Stop the hate and then things will improve faster.

Peace.

Hehe maybe that's what I need to do. (loads up street sweeper..)

"yo yo yo biznatch let me tap that azz"

"what'd you just say to my date?"

"bac da-" *boom!*

splattered gangsta on the sidewalk

But seriously folks, I think anteye's point is more valid. People just can't sit down and let their community be ruined...the examples he cited are extreme, but the one regarding the girl and guy who got kidnapped near Nikki Beach Club happened in our own backyard nonetheless, and those guys no doubt considered it some sort of recreation.

From packs of roaming underage kids, to the thugs in their Escalades, the streets of the beach are rather irritating. Safe, yeah they are for now, but it's quite uncomfortable for a lot of people. Most girls I know hate the idea of walking from 17th Street to get to a club because they'll undobutedly be harassed by a roving group of idiots. Most of the people saying ignore it in this thread are guys, notice?

One of the things I usually do before I go into a club is walk up and down Washington, just to see what's going on. Lately, I do that, and I feel disgusted by the type of people I see on the streets...

For now, the beach is 'safe', but who knows for how long? I don't want events like anteye described to become commonplace, and people treating them as 'oh, just another gang fight on Washington'...

If bitching about the situation makes me a fascist pig, well oink, oink!

[thehog]

Originally posted by pod

If bitching about the situation makes me a fascist pig, well oink, oink!

:laugh:

same here Pod

but im a HOG

[Guest saleen351]

You guys should see sea side heights NJ. (where mtv has it beach house, ocean county) Its a more dirty place then sobe, we don't have million dollar hotels and shit like that, hell there isn't one corprate hotel on the entire island. But the bars and clubs kick ass, the crowds kick ass, and you never feel unsafe. The cops their are renta cops, but just not any rent a cop, SSH petitions the worst cops they can find, the big bad asses, that will jack your ass, and they hire them. Trust me when i say no one gets out of line in SSH. When shit goes down you will pay for it, and the courts there smoke you in fines. Every club has sign by the door they all say "please fight, we need your thousand dollar fine"! No if ands or butts about it, YOU GO TO Jail. ON top of that, they dont' let people just hang around on the street, they all stay on the boardwalk, cause the nj gudios are not friendly people toward ghettos boys.. Once on the boardwalk, there is so many cops, they don't do shit.. Eventually they get the point and head back to Asbury Park... Belmar and Pt Pleasant don't put up with shit either. Remember now NJ biggest industry is tourism as well...

If you drive down the strip twice with your car, you will get a ticket, if you have loud music, you will get a ticket. If you have a house party, you will get a ticket. They dont' fuck around. Ask any lifeguards that worked all over. The toughest beach to guard at is SSH beach. Its all NYers who think they are bay watch. We call them "bennys".. Like if you got into a argument or got cut off from a nyer in SSH, you fucking call them a Benny and they will go nuts on your ass. Anyways, SSH is home of Temps, the greatest club on earth for 3 months a year, with Tsettos on the decks, and trust me its all mofia ran, and owned and guess what, there is never any problems by the clubs with ghetto thugs.. Its time you latins pass the helm to an Italian or at least get Juliani on the pay role. You guys don't have the "influence" of a Italian....

SSH doesn't fuck around, cause they understand how much money pours into the town with clubs and bars and tourists. Sobe will never have the culuture of the nj shore, which is ok, they have their own style, but guido fist pumping till 4am with the craziest wackos is a blast and I suggest you fools check it out one day, but in the end of all my BS is this:

Sea Side Heights needs to learn a few leassons from Sobe and Sobe needs to learn a few lessons from SSH...

ps if you are interested in some SSH info, check out this site

www.njguido.com