This should show people how full of shit the Vatican is

[sassa]

Christianity is the ultimate farce of our time...I don't understand why people still follow a religion Roman emperors imposed on slaves to keep them in line....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Law resigns over sex abuse scandal

Pope accepts;Boston grand jury to continue investigation

MSNBC STAFF AND WIRE REPORTS

VATICAN CITY, Dec. 13 — Cardinal Bernard Law, under intense fire for his handling of the church sex abuse scandal, resigned Friday as archbishop of Boston. Law still faces a subpoena to testify before a Boston grand jury, and Massachusetts’ attorney general told NBC on Friday that his investigation into allegations of rape and other sexual crimes by Boston-area priests would continue.

THE VATICAN said Pope John Paul II had accepted the resignation after the two men met Friday morning. The pope named Bishop Richard Lennon, an auxiliary bishop in Boston, to run the diocese temporarily.

“I am profoundly grateful to the Holy Father for having accepted my resignation,” Law said in a written statement released by the Vatican. “It is my fervent prayer that this action may help the archdiocese of Boston to experience the healing, reconciliation and unity which are so desperately needed.”

“To all those who have suffered from my shortcomings and mistakes, I both apologize and from them beg forgiveness.”

Law is the highest-ranking church leader to fall as a result of the clerical sex abuse crisis that has plagued the Roman Catholic Church this year.

The pope was described by a Vatican official as “deeply saddened” by the whole affair.

PRIESTS JOINED CALLS TO RESIGN

The crisis in Boston, which was touched off by Law’s admission that he reassigned former priest John Geoghan despite accusations of sex abuse, quickly spread to other dioceses, as Catholics demanded greater accountability from their leaders.

At least 325 priests of America’s 46,000 priests have been removed from duty or resigned this year because of molestation claims.

Abuse victims, lay members and several dozen Boston-area priests had intensified calls for Law to resign after 18 years at the helm of the Boston archdiocese, as more cases of sordid conduct by priests unfolded from the release of Church files last week.

In Boston, lawyer Mitchell Garabedian, who represents dozens of victims of clergy sexual abuse, called on other negligent leaders of the church to resign.

“This is a step in the right direction for victims but unfortunately too little too late for others,” he said.

Law had been at the Vatican all week, but largely kept out of the public’s eye. The cardinal slipped quietly away from Boston to begin a round of meetings with top officials at the Vatican over his and his archdiocese’s fate.

Law has been accused of having shuffled from parish to parish priests who were accused, often repeatedly, of sexually abusing minors.

Among the worst cases, files released by the church on a court order document a priest trading cocaine for sex, another allegedly claiming to be the second coming of Christ to lure teenagers training to be nuns into having sex and a third allegedly molesting a boy on 21 consecutive nights during a cross-country trip.

GRAND JURY TO CONTINUE

On Thursday, it was revealed that Law and seven bishops who once worked for him had been subpoenaed last week to appear before a grand jury looking into possible crimes by church officials.

Tom Reilly, Massachusetts’ attorney general, told NBC’s “Today” show that he’s convinced “the church cared more about protecting itself” in past years than in protecting children.

Reilly had ordered the grand jury and said its investigation would continue. “It’s never been about one person,” he said referring to Cardinal Law.

Asked if Law faces any charges, Reilly said it’s too early in the investigation to say. “I’m not going to speculate on any charges,” he said.

Law, who has testified in depositions for civil suits, flew to Rome the day after receiving the subpoena.

Victims have accused Law of being more mindful of his personal reputation that honestly dealing with the scandal, and now dozens of priests under his command are demanding he step down.

Law had offered his resignation last April as well, but the pope did not accept it.

After Law, now 71, returned from his April meeting with the pontiff, he said he was “encouraged” in his efforts to provide “the strongest possible leadership” in ensuring no child is ever abused again by a priest in his archdiocese.

But in the eight months that have ensued, the scandal worsened, with some of the most shocking revelations coming in recent days.

Facing enormous payments to settle abuse claims, the archdiocese also faces the possibility of having to declare bankruptcy to protect itself from creditors.

In recent years, sex abuse scandals have engulfed dioceses across the United States and in Ireland, France and the pope’s native Poland. But Boston has been at the epicenter of the scandals because of Law’s insistence that he stay at the helm.

Boston is also a major Catholic center in the United States and archbishops in the city have been prominent prelates.

Last month, Law, in an apology delivered during Mass in Boston’s Cathedral, acknowledged his responsibility for decisions that “led to intense suffering.”

Law was long considered the senior figure of the American hierarchy and was often at the Vatican, where he served on a number of commissions. For the moment, he retains those positions.

Law’s statement made no mention of his future plans. He remains a cardinal and therefore he would be eligible, until he reaches 80, to vote in a conclave to elect a new pope.

REPLACEMENT SEEKS HEALING

Lennon, a 55-year-old president of St. John’s Seminary who was elevated to bishop only last year, takes over at an immensely challenging moment. More than 400 alleged victims are suing the archdiocese, and Law has taken steps to allow it to file for bankruptcy. Temporary administrators in the church rarely are empowered to make major decisions.

Lennon offered prayers for the victims of sex abuse and pledged Friday “to work towards healing as a church and furthering the mission of Jesus Christ within our community.

“I am thankful for the good works that his Eminence Cardinal Law accomplished in his service to us as archbishop and for the friendship that I have enjoyed with him,” Lennon said in a statement. “I ask for prayers for him as he continues his life in service to the church.”

[bigpoppanils]

or better yet....the Vatican wants to purge homosexuals from the Church...fine...but wouldn''t ordaining women help solve that issue?

i took this from the Village Voice:

Catholic Women Blast Sex Abuse and Sexism

More Sins of the Fathers

by Ginger Adams Otis

December 4 - 10, 2002

There's a new joke circulating among lay Catholics these days. A young priest approaches an older priest and says to him, with the utmost anxiety, "Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned." The older priest looks grave and replies, "Continue, my son." The first priest falls to his knees and whispers, "I have thoughts of fondling young boys." His elder heaves a great sigh of relief and says heartily, "Is that all? I thought you were going to say you wanted to ordain women."

For many Roman Catholics the scandals of the past year are a perfect example of why the traditional church hierarchy needs to go, starting with the all-male celibate priesthood. Instead of embracing the possibility of change, however, the Vatican's going retrograde. On November 13 officials announced that accused clergy should be tried in special church tribunals with no public oversight. They have also refused to censure bishops who protect or have protected abusive priests by moving them from one parish to another. And, to the profound sadness of many progressive Catholics, the Vatican is openly discussing some kind of screening process to weed out future homosexual clergy.

Meanwhile, what little momentum there was toward opening the priesthood to women has ground to a halt. This summer, just as the U.S. Bishops Conference started drafting a policy to flush out sex abusers, Pope John Paul II excommunicated seven women who had themselves ordained as Roman Catholic priests in an "outlaw" ceremony on the banks of the Danube in Austria. Only those perceived as beyond redemption are cast out of the fold in this way; for true believers, it's a one-way ticket to hell. "How revealing," says Dagmar Braun Celeste, 60, and the lone American among the seven, "that the church will toss out a bunch of elderly women because of their spiritual beliefs, but is using canon law to protect known sex offenders."

And there are plenty more dark doings within the church that have yet to be fully revealed. Sister Maura O'Donohue, a physician and member of the Medical Missionaries of Mary, compiled a report back in 1994 detailing numerous incidents from around the world of abuse of power by priests who regularly demand sex from nuns or novices in exchange for special perks, such as permission or certification to work in a certain diocese.

In Africa, a continent ravaged by HIV and AIDS, young nuns are routinely seduced and even raped by spiritual leaders because they're perceived as disease-free. In some cases, wrote O'Donohue, priests forced victims to have abortions to avoid disclosure of their crime. And in at least one known instance, a nun died during an abortion procedure; her requiem mass was performed by the priest who impregnated her. O'Donohue's report chronicles such sexual abuse in 23 countries, including the United States, but says it's most prevalent in Africa and Latin America. Her findings have been corroborated by other missionaries around the world, most notably by Sister Marie McDonald, of Our Lady of Africa, who released a similar report in 1998.

Both these women contacted Vatican officials and shared their information. O'Donohue met with Cardinal Eduardo Martinez, prefect of the Vatican Congregation for Religious Life in 1995, and in 1998 McDonald spoke about sexual abuse of religious and lay women by priests in front of the Council of 16, a triannual gathering of religious leaders in Rome. Neither event yielded much in the way of change. In fact, one of the cases cited by O'Donohue—the mass firing of the entire leadership team of a diocesan women's commission in Malawi by a local bishop because they complained about local priests impregnating 29 young nuns—had been reported to Martinez several years earlier, but so far no attempts have been made to reinstate the dismissed women or to halt the abuse. The true scope of women's sexual exploitation within the church has yet to be fully investigated, and few laypeople even realize such a problem exists.

It's devilish details like these that undermine the faith of many female Catholics, and the move toward secret tribunals makes them feel even less included. Therese Ragen is one of a new wave of feminist activists who believe getting women ordained is an important first step on a much longer journey. "I'd like a Nicene Mass that talks about Our Redeemer instead of Our Father," says Ragen, an NYU adjunct professor and clinical psychologist, "and for that to happen, the Roman Catholic Church is going to have to be torn all the way down and built back up again."

Ragen, who grew up Irish Catholic in Chicago and briefly joined the Sisters of Mercy order in her early twenties, just donated $10,000 to the Virginia-based Women's Ordination Conference to launch a media campaign in favor of women priests. She's contemplating buying some billboard space in Manhattan, or maybe papering city buses and subways with her message. "I saw a billboard in Chicago that I liked. It said, 'Looking for a Sign From God? Here's One: Ordain Women.' "

As far as the Vatican is concerned, that'll happen when hell freezes over. The hierarchy is adamant that being a priest requires "proper form" and "proper matter" and women simply aren't anatomically correct. It's an argument as old as the church itself: In the 16th century, when Lucrezia Borgia temporarily filled in for her father, Pope Alexander VI, a cardinal challenged her qualifications by asking pointedly, "Ubi est penna vostra?" (Where is your pen?). (Of course, by the same church regulations, Alexander had no business fathering children, but that type of transgression has historically been easily overlooked.)

"The Vatican will never acknowledge women as spiritual equals," insists Frances Kissling, president of Catholics for Free Choice. "This is the most elitist group of people in the world. They don't have a democratic bone in their bodies." Kissling is all for getting females into priestly robes, but doesn't think that alone will help move women out of the handmaiden role. "It's like a Fortune 500 company," she says. "Just because they let women in doesn't make them progressive—or egalitarian." Certainly, Vatican City is overwhelmingly male. Of the 3800 people who permanently live or work there, only 400 are women. The majority are nuns, housekeepers of churchmen, secretaries, or middle-level managers for the papal administration. Moving women one rung higher on the ladder won't automatically rearrange this pattern, according to Kissling.

In the U.S., the numbers are reversed, but the division of labor persists. A study done by Georgetown University's Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate (CARA) found that women hold 75 percent of paid parish leadership positions. Armed with master's degrees in ministry, laywomen are the majority in children's religious education and sacramental preparation, accounting and business, music ministry and youth ministry. At the same time, there are nearly 3000 parishes in the U.S. with no resident priest, and CARA's last count showed that only 450 males were being ordained each year. In locations where priests and parishioners are amenable, women are allowed to unofficially fill the role of pastoral associate, which often comes with all the responsibilities of priesthood except permission to administer the seven sacraments. More frequently church leaders work with Rome to import priests from Eastern Europe and Latin America. In particularly underserviced areas, it's very often women who provide the daily rituals of religion—priests are called in only when a sacrament must be performed.

The Vatican prefers not to dwell on such realities, but there probably will come a day when American Catholics get tired of living in a missionary country and want some homegrown priests. It's already happening—in Rochester, New York, a woman priest delivers a sermon to a congregation of 1500 every Sunday in the Roman Catholic-identified Spiritus Christi Church. The parishioners don't seem to mind; actually, they were instrumental in convincing Reverend Mary Ramerman to honor her calling. And her deacon, Denise Donato, will be ordained as a priest in February. Only in the Vatican, where priests, bishops, and cardinals jockey for jobs that come with lifetime guarantees and residents live tax-free in well-appointed papal apartments, does the thought of elevating women beyond server status seem untenable. "There's no getting around it," says Ragen. "The Vatican's got one hell of a stained-glass ceiling."

[sassa]

Good article.

What amazes me more than anything else is how people know that the knowledge and truth are out there, YET deliberately shun themselves from knowing it, living their little lives, etc...

perhaps this is the easy way out....i've found that the more knowledge one has, the more painful it is for them to have it and use it.

maybe ignorance is bliss after all....

[dgmodel]

Originally posted by sassa

Christianity is the ultimate farce of our time...I don't understand why people still follow a religion Roman emperors imposed on slaves to keep them in line....

its just as fake as any other religion... be it Judiasm, Islam, Buddhist, Scientology, and all the other jokes i left out... so dont just pick on one religion...

[underwater]

i like buddhism the best out of all of them.....just kind of meld with the earth once you die....reach a state of nirvana and realize everything material is worthless.....not that i follow it but it captures my interest....i do agree all religions are bullshit....people just want to feel like all the shit they go through here is all for getting to some higher place will everything will be peaceful once they die....strange....i'd rather just live a good life and die......

[sassa]

Originally posted by dgmodel

its just as fake as any other religion... be it Judiasm, Islam, Buddhist, Scientology, and all the other jokes i left out... so dont just pick on one religion...

you're right, and i'm not....but christianity was created as a business more than anything else....in medieval times, the cardinals and pope were taking money from people, telling them they were guaranteed a place in heaven if they did....this doesn't sound like a fair religion.

judaism is cracked out too....islam has problems..so does hinduism....buddhism...taoism is pretty neutral....maybe human beings think too much of themselves and religion is just a mental prison for people....

too bad there are no concrete, definite facts to base any conclusions on...

[dgmodel]

this is my religion...

live fast die young... its better to burn out than fade away...

thats it... plain and simple... and one lil footnote to go along with it... love along the way...

[muzikchick]

It's all about crowd control, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Anything or anyone that uses "fear" or "threat of fear" is a punk. Whether it be in religion or otherwise.

Who ever left the vatican tour flyers can actually kiss my ass...it's pouring cats and dogs outside, right now...perhaps an angels answer to it, as well.

Bees pollen and honey....tis sweet, nothing else counts.

[jtk4]

blasphamy

I always use that word and now it is used in the right contex

[johnnyrevs]

its just as fake as any other religion... be it Judiasm, Islam, Buddhist, Scientology, and all the other jokes i left out... so dont just pick on one religion...

agreed

[dgmodel]

long story short who gives a shit... if someone wants to believe let them... if they dont so be it... why do ppl go out of there way to prove something is or isnt real, why do you care~!? if someones gay so be it... let em be, if someone wants to have interacial reltionship so be it, whatever the fuck it is, just leave em alone... just worry about yourself and your shortcomings and your own beliefs...

[bigpoppanils]

why are sassa's old threads being bumped back up?