a HUGE-MONGOUS FUCK YOU to war hippies

[dr0ne]

Originally posted by sassa

there are many reasons for war, and then there are the reasons the gov't gives us.

saddam is a madman and does need to be ousted, but i do not think a costly and lengthy war is the way. being the sole superpower in many ways at the moment, i honestly think the US could take him out without having to send troops in. but, of course the US gov't won't do that, it all comes down to the main reason they're invading Iraq: oil.

so they keep saying that it's not about oil right? well, wouldn't it be so simple for the white house to just make some sort of agreement w/ the U.N. that in the case saddam does get blown to bits, the U.S. (or any other nation) would not be allowed to make special agreements or exploit iraqi resources in any way?

.......yeah right

[dialectics]

cintron - by getting yourself educated you ARE making a difference. it will lead not only to more innovation in the world, bringing our country closer to the future and the tax dollars from what you make can buy bigger and badder bombs. hehe ok just kidding about that last one - the idea is that the more global education we have the more willing we are to question the wars and wills of those who have been elected or have siezed power. you among anyone here has been willing and in fact eager to sign up - and while i disagree with it i highly commend it.... but think about the good that you are doing here. it isn't always apparent but it is there.

Originally posted by luiskain

That's like saying, all you people who complain about Bush, why don't you just drop whatever you're doing in life, your current career, and take up politics to become the president. It doesn't work like that. Only b\c i didn't chose military life doesn't mean I dont support it when it rightfuly should be supported.

That is unsound logic right there. The beauty of a democracy is that, because if everyone pursued a life in politics our economy and progress would stagnate, we can use the money we've earned to support politicians who will fight for our causes. Now you can go out and say you support the war and hang a flag on your car and post little things on messageboards about how you want all the tree-hugging liberals to get the fuck out of the country but those are meaningless and empty gestures. if you want to support the war, support it with (in order of ascending difficulty) your wallet, your fist and your life.

The freedom to question the actions of our government is FUNDAMENTAL to what makes America great. But questioning itself is useless in reality - you have to take ACTION.

I believe that that freedom is worth fighting for... given UNMISTAKABLE EVIDENCE i would do my part... but there is no way i would sacrifice my current trajectory in education, especially as a man of science and technology, in the name of a warmongering capitalist politician with oil industry ties.

[dr0ne]

Originally posted by luiskain

First of all, if there was a draft and i was picked, I'd draw a Peace sign along with "Born to kill" on my helmet.

Second, I expected the "oh why don't you go sign up and go over to die, har har durf durf" talk. That's 3rd grade comeback logic. That's like saying, all you people who complain about Bush, why don't you just drop whatever you're doing in life, your current career, and take up politics to become the president. It doesn't work like that. Only b\c i didn't chose military life doesn't mean I dont support it when it rightfuly should be supported.

And as far as foreign support...are you fuckin' kidding me? Do you know what kind of almost sci-fi like weapons your millions and billions of tax dollars have bought the US military? Short of a cloaked Romulan warbird, <snort> it's safe to say that sadam would just get whooped.

Foreign support is just a formality. Everyone knows what pussies the French are. Their greatest military heroes were a woman in drag and a 4 foot midgit with a complex. They always get invaded and occupied.

this is great. comments such as these are the perfect examples of why the rest of the world has so much high regard and respect for the U.S. (the government AND the people).

[ou812]

Originally posted by luiskain

First of all, if there was a draft and i was picked, I'd draw a Peace sign along with "Born to kill" on my helmet.

Second, I expected the "oh why don't you go sign up and go over to die, har har durf durf" talk. That's 3rd grade comeback logic. That's like saying, all you people who complain about Bush, why don't you just drop whatever you're doing in life, your current career, and take up politics to become the president. It doesn't work like that. Only b\c i didn't chose military life doesn't mean I dont support it when it rightfuly should be supported.

And as far as foreign support...are you fuckin' kidding me? Do you know what kind of almost sci-fi like weapons your millions and billions of tax dollars have bought the US military? Short of a cloaked Romulan warbird, <snort> it's safe to say that sadam would just get whooped.

Foreign support is just a formality. Everyone knows what pussies the French are. Their greatest military heroes were a woman in drag and a 4 foot midgit with a complex. They always get invaded and occupied.

Well, it's easier for you to go enlist and join the marines and get sent to the frontlines than it is for me to try to become president of the US................so as soon as you take your gung ho self out to battle I'll go make my bid for congress.

And if we have such outrageously cool weapons why couldn't Bush Sr. get the job done with Sadaam a few years ago, and why couldn't George W. get it done with Osama Bin Laden.

Face it....................this country sticks it nose in everyone else's business and I fear that one day we're REALLY gonna get bit in the ass for it, Sept. 11th being a very awful example of it.

[Twilo Beauty]

Originally posted by msoprano13

violence is never the answer

Violence is never a RATIONAL answer but it is a valuable OPTION to have. Afterall, it gets the job done during situations where it is absolutely needed. Example: World War II.

-iliana

[pookie23]

Originally posted by iliana

Violence is never a RATIONAL answer but it is a valuable OPTION to have. Afterall, it gets the job done during situations where it is absolutely needed. Example: World War II.

-iliana

Agreed!

[luiskain]

Originally posted by dialectics

That is unsound logic right there. The beauty of a democracy is that, because if everyone pursued a life in politics our economy and progress would stagnate, we can use the money we've earned to support politicians who will fight for our causes. Now you can go out and say you support the war and hang a flag on your car and post little things on messageboards about how you want all the tree-hugging liberals to get the fuck out of the country but those are meaningless and empty gestures. if you want to support the war, support it with (in order of ascending difficulty) your wallet, your fist and your life.

That is unsound logic right there. The beauty of a democracy is that, because if everyone pursued a life in military, our economy and progress would stagnate, we can use the money we've earned to support the military and its many advances so that they will fight for our causes. Now you can go out and say you want undeniable evidence and post little anti war things on messageboards about how you want all the warmongers to shut the fuck up but those actions will become meaningless and empty gestures. If you're not going to support a war to take out a proven threat to world peace and the civilized world itself, then prepare to lose (in order of ascending importance) your wallet, your fist, your friends, your family, your life, and your civilized world as you know it.

[jimk29]

shouldn't it be antiwar hippy? not war hippies...

[dialectics]

Originally posted by luiskain

If you're not going to support a war to take out a proven threat to world peace and the civilized world itself, then prepare to lose (in order of ascending importance) your wallet, your fist, your friends, your family, your life, and your civilized world as you know it.

wow that was pretty witty. too bad you're shipping out to the front lines.

First - you say he's a proven threat but where is the proof? Where is the testimony from iraquis saying that his family members were killed by his government? where are the satellite photos of missile silos - the unmistakable evidence that kennedy had from cuba? Show me that and i'll be right behind you - backing the war without wanting to actually serve. Hell, i'd even consider elisting as a computer/communications type guy - use education to beat the enemy. But until then, Bush and co have too many alterior motives to simply take their word for it and join in war fever. (as an aside - its not like clinton was any better... he ran bombing raids to take our eye off the monica lewinsky verdict.)

Second - under what situations does the US intervene in geopolitics? when does our power extend to playing policeman of the world? is it whenever we see war crimes, brutality and genocide? or is it when we see war crimes, brutality and genocide and there are economic motives as well? how long did it take before we got involved in kosovo?

Third - that civilized world you mention, i haven't seen it yet. so if you find it let me know.

peaz,

rob

[dr0ne]

Originally posted by dialectics

First - you say he's a proven threat but where is the proof?

cuz dubya said so that's enough proof for me! how dare you question the mighty U.S. government! everything they do is for the good of their pocke...eh i mean the nation!

[luiskain]

Originally posted by dialectics

wow that was pretty witty. too bad you're shipping out to the front lines.

First - you say he's a proven threat but where is the proof? Where is the testimony from iraquis saying that his family members were killed by his government? where are the satellite photos of missile silos - the unmistakable evidence that kennedy had from cuba? Show me that and i'll be right behind you - backing the war without wanting to actually serve. Hell, i'd even consider elisting as a computer/communications type guy - use education to beat the enemy. But until then, Bush and co have too many alterior motives to simply take their word for it and join in war fever. (as an aside - its not like clinton was any better... he ran bombing raids to take our eye off the monica lewinsky verdict.)

Second - under what situations does the US intervene in geopolitics? when does our power extend to playing policeman of the world? is it whenever we see war crimes, brutality and genocide? or is it when we see war crimes, brutality and genocide and there are economic motives as well? how long did it take before we got involved in kosovo?

Third - that civilized world you mention, i haven't seen it yet. so if you find it let me know.

peaz,

rob

Front lines? What is this? 1944? We're storming beaches? Sending in the airborne to soften coastal artillery? Modern US wars are like, BATTLESHIP and MISSILE COMMAND...maybe a bit of STAR TREK: STARFLEET COMMAND thrown in there. Only time there's a "front line" is when they send in ground forces to clean house after all the support and infrastructure has been blown to smitherines.

As far as proof...I thought we already decided he used Bio on Iranians to force victory upon Iran...and then used bio on his own people...the norther kurds? then u have a history of agression, durr, and buying all sorts of uranium and then expelling weapons inspectors! Whatever, this is almost like the OJ case.

As Bush said "The only time we will have undeniable proof that he has weapons of mass destruction is when he uses them."

As for what that braindrenched idiot said about BUSH SR. not being able to take out Saddam the first time, check your goddamn literature bc everyone knows the Allied Coalition stopped short of Bagdad as to not incite trouble with the arab nations. In other words, they let him go, stuipd.

[cintron]

Originally posted by luiskain

Front lines? What is this? 1944? We're storming beaches? Sending in the airborne to soften coastal artillery? Modern US wars are like, BATTLESHIP and MISSILE COMMAND...maybe a bit of STAR TREK: STARFLEET COMMAND thrown in there. Only time there's a "front line" is when they send in ground forces to clean house after all the support and infrastructure has been blown to smitherines.

No.

Front lines are wherever our soldiers go to fight. My cousins are flying F/A18's off some carrier over there. I consider them a front line. Some of my other family is in afghanistan, with the special forces. that too is a front line.

The front line is anywhere a soldier goes with a mission, and anywhere a soldier goes with a mission is a place they might not come back from.

Don't think that war is so calculated, detached and bloodless as the media, nintendo and other "know-nothings" would have you believe.

As Bush said "The only time we will have undeniable proof that he has weapons of mass destruction is when he uses them."

I do agree with this statement. people who refute statements like these as bullshit are the same people who lulled us into complacency before pearl harbor, the same people who said that Beirut 1983 would never happen, or the USS Cole was a highly improbable possbility, or that 9/11 was a notion so far out there that it shouldn't even be considered.

The United States has a history of ALWAYS getting the shit kicked out of us FIRST before we gear up and attack whoever struck the first blow. The fact of the matter is, while in some eyes it may make us the "gentleman", by only fighting in defense, people are still giving their blood in order to grease the gears of war.

9/11 left us confused because for the first time in nearly 200 years, we were attacked in the continental united states. And it also proved to be the most devastating single attack ever unleashed against the unites states by an enemy.

It also left us with another problem: there was no concrete "enemy."

We blamed Al Qaida because if we didn't blame somebody, the government would look incompetent. Al Qaida is only one part of the problem. They're only a spoke on the entire web of terrorism, which is also made up of other dictators and extremist groups such as Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Libya, Iraq, etc etc.

Did you know that they actually have TRAINING camps that select and filter men and women to use as weapons against us?

They choose who will be the fire-blooded, religiously zealous assailants who strap bombs to their backs and board a bus in Jerusalem. They also choose who they will finance further to attend schools, often right here in America, to get the BEST education so that they can come back and help to organize the finances and inner workings that terrorist networks rely on to stay operative. There is no greater threat than an organization geared specifically to destroy Americans, and who is prepared to do so both on a tactical level, and a strategic level.

People joke about SPECTRE or Dr. Evil and his Evil companions from James-bond-stye movies, people who want to take over the earth and completely dominate everything in their grasp.

Well, believe it or not, that's not too far from what we're facing here. The only difference is many of them use God as a shield to give righteousness to their cause. Some of them think they are fighting a crusade to rid the earth of us infidels. Some of them just hate us and understand exactly that what they do is murder - but they love the work anyway.

so think about that next time you open your mouth and say we should be passive about everything.

Just remember that somewhere, there is a person training very hard to board a bus with a bomb, or assault an airline crew, or deliver a weapon. And realize that quite possibly, their mission could take them right into your backyard. that's the truth.

[luiskain]

Originally posted by cintron

No.

Front lines are wherever our soldiers go to fight. My cousins are flying F/A18's off some carrier over there. I consider them a front line. Some of my other family is in afghanistan, with the special forces. that too is a front line.

The front line is anywhere a soldier goes with a mission, and anywhere a soldier goes with a mission is a place they might not come back from.

Don't think that war is so calculated, detached and bloodless as the media, nintendo and other "know-nothings" would have you believe.

I'm sorry, you're right...I didn't mean to be insensitive about that.

[dimte]

to all the war hawks in here... so who do you think is going to be in control of the oceans of oil under iraq? with another great depression looming on the horizon and bush's background in the oil biz, national security looks like an awful clever justification for this strong arm robbery.

[Twilo Beauty]

Originally posted by dimte

to all the war hawks in here... so who do you think is going to be in control of the oceans of oil under iraq? with another great depression looming on the horizon and bush's background in the oil biz, national security looks like an awful clever justification for this strong arm robbery.

You're right on point. It's apparent that all this agression is being fueled by hidden agenda's that stems back to his father's presidency. If we go to war, it will be a repeat of Vietnam, THE MOST POINTLESS WAR IN HISTORY.

The threat for nuclear warfare might be in Hussein's hands, but IRAQ IS NOT THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT HAS POTENTIAL FOR CAUSING MASS DESTRUCTION. The harrassment and judgement towards Iraq is proof that George has a chip on his shoulder that will ultimatley cost many American lives.

-iliana

[ghhhhhost]

if the US is so concerned with UN VIOLATIONS...and the like...why dont they go into RWANDA? why dont they go slap sanctions and put inspectors in China??

the US picks battles it knows 100% without a doubt it can win. They know they cant go back to Africa..theyd get their ass handed to them like they did in Somalia. CHina?? well...they know better than to mess with billions of people who are ready to die at the drop of a hat to preserve their sovereignity....

its all bullshit..this war shit doesnt solve anything..it just buries tensions for a while and they build back up after 50 yrs...everyone is in it for SELF...unfortunately 75% of this country thinks that the US is doing the "right thing" by "disarming" Saddam

PS- ...since i got my citizenship 4 yrs ago...im eligible for the draft...and if there was a draft....I'd do what our greatest president ever did.....

dodge the draft...move to England to pursue my "studies"

[ou812]

Originally posted by luiskain

Front lines? What is this? 1944? We're storming beaches? Sending in the airborne to soften coastal artillery? Modern US wars are like, BATTLESHIP and MISSILE COMMAND...maybe a bit of STAR TREK: STARFLEET COMMAND thrown in there. Only time there's a "front line" is when they send in ground forces to clean house after all the support and infrastructure has been blown to smitherines.

As far as proof...I thought we already decided he used Bio on Iranians to force victory upon Iran...and then used bio on his own people...the norther kurds? then u have a history of agression, durr, and buying all sorts of uranium and then expelling weapons inspectors! Whatever, this is almost like the OJ case.

As Bush said "The only time we will have undeniable proof that he has weapons of mass destruction is when he uses them."

As for what that braindrenched idiot said about BUSH SR. not being able to take out Saddam the first time, check your goddamn literature bc everyone knows the Allied Coalition stopped short of Bagdad as to not incite trouble with the arab nations. In other words, they let him go, stuipd.

Face it dude, your arguement is weak. I was just listening to the news right now and it said that Bush's approval rating has down about another 10%. Approx 45 percent of the American population are against what he's planning to do in Iraq and only a little more than 30% agree with it. The American people are not that stupid, they can see what is going on and they know George Dubya is full of it.

[kiko2o1]

heres my .02, since being a marine on 72 hour leave...

first of all... there's a big difference between conquoring a country, and liberating it... then you get the statement, "it's not our right to go to other countries and impose our beliefs on them" and the answer to that is freedom is not a right, u don't impose freedom on someone, its give when they are not enslaved by a ruthless dictator...

2nd of all, im tired of the "blame america first crowd" who think it was our fault for the world trade center, saying it was because of our foreign policies... no other country has attained more power then the US in the last century and abused it less...

Finally, I'm also tired of the UN supporters, who say give the inspectors more time, we need a smoking gun... Smoking gun?!?! lol, this man has been breaking UN resolutions since before the Clinton Administration...for the people who say let the inspectors do their job... ok, send 100 people in the state of california and say find this "smoking gun". Seriously...like he couldn't hide them in the last

8 years since the inspectors were there last.. the more time we give Iraq, the more time they have to dig into their positions, thus causing more allied casualties...

I suggest some of you stop getting your intel from liberal media bias ex: CNN/New York Times...

ok, im done... had to do that tho

[cintron]

Rock on, kiko

I hope you stay safe and well - and kick a lot of ass if you're called to do it

makin' me all proud over here

[crosspatrick]

Originally posted by ghhhhhost

PS- ...since i got my citizenship 4 yrs ago...im eligible for the draft...and if there was a draft....I'd do what our greatest president ever did.....

dodge the draft...move to England to pursue my "studies"

I agree with u man, I'm not eligible for the draft yet, but if i was getting drafted i'd be back in that house on the side of the hill in the Emerald Isle as quick as a flash.

[kiko2o1]

thanks... i don't know where i'm going yet, hopefully to the middle east... i wish i could keep a diary, but its not allowed... for the simple fact if i become a POW, it could hold valuable info...but as soon as i get a chance, i'll fill cp on whatever exciting stories im allowed to offer, depending on classification...

[waaaaa]

Originally posted by kiko2o1

thanks... i don't know where i'm going yet, hopefully to the middle east... i wish i could keep a diary, but its not allowed... for the simple fact if i become a POW, it could hold valuable info...but as soon as i get a chance, i'll fill cp on whatever exciting stories im allowed to offer, depending on classification...

sickkkkkk... goodluck kid.

[luiskain]

Originally posted by kiko2o1

thanks... i don't know where i'm going yet, hopefully to the middle east... i wish i could keep a diary, but its not allowed... for the simple fact if i become a POW, it could hold valuable info...but as soon as i get a chance, i'll fill cp on whatever exciting stories im allowed to offer, depending on classification...

Hey good luck buddy...

[bigpoppanils]

Originally posted by luiskain

As for what that braindrenched idiot said about BUSH SR. not being able to take out Saddam the first time, check your goddamn literature bc everyone knows the Allied Coalition stopped short of Bagdad as to not incite trouble with the arab nations. In other words, they let him go, stuipd.

errr....i'm guessing you forgot about Bush's "support" of the Kurds. After the war ended, Bush gave the Kurds weapons, and promised air support if the Kurds overthrew Saddam....so the Kurds went ahead into battle, Bush called the air support off, and the Kurds were slaughtered.

and to Kiko....good luck

[djwrecknyc]

Originally posted by kiko2o1

thanks... i don't know where i'm going yet, hopefully to the middle east... i wish i could keep a diary, but its not allowed... for the simple fact if i become a POW, it could hold valuable info...but as soon as i get a chance, i'll fill cp on whatever exciting stories im allowed to offer, depending on classification...

best of luck to you. and dont let anything deter you from doing what's right for this country in the first place.