dgmodel Posted April 15 Report Share Posted April 15 "Whites from families with incomes of less than $10,000 had a mean SAT score that was 46 points higher than blacks whose families had incomes of between $80,000 and $100,000," according to The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siceone Posted April 15 Report Share Posted April 15 this statistic really doesn't mean anythign the population sizes are no where near the same. and your SAT score means nothing once you're in college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fineones Posted April 15 Report Share Posted April 15 oops... dgpost... on fineones name ooops... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgmodel Posted April 15 Author Report Share Posted April 15 i can appreciate that however you NEED your SAT score to get into COLLEGE to begin with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siceone Posted April 15 Report Share Posted April 15 Originally posted by dgmodel i can appreciate that however you NEED your SAT score to get into COLLEGE to begin with... you don't need college to make money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr mahs Posted April 15 Report Share Posted April 15 Originally posted by siceone you don't need college to make money You got that right.. 3/4 of college students don't use their education.. I am currently in school part time while working and in the corporate world it's all about who you know...but I will complete the degree because I feel it will be an accomplishment I can be proud of even if it takes me 10 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgmodel Posted April 15 Author Report Share Posted April 15 Originally posted by siceone you don't need college to make money no everyone with a job makes money... but i am speaking about substantial monies... liquid monies... beaucoup duckettes... now i am all about the non-college grad making seven figures +, i strive to be one, one day... however i make a fair amount of cashish now, but the ppl who work with me average starting salary: $90,000, average salary after 5 years: $500,000, average salary after 10 to 15 years: $1,000,000... plus bonus... very rarely does one with out a conventional education make a great deal of money; let alone more than those figures... OR EVEN HIRED!!!the way most non-college educated individuals make big money, or are well off are if one owns their own business, and or inherits it... (and of course the oddball chance of luck or stardom)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siceone Posted April 15 Report Share Posted April 15 Originally posted by dgmodel no everyone with a job makes money... but i am speaking about substantial monies... liquid monies... beaucoup duckettes... now i am all about the non-college grad making seven figures +, i strive to be one, one day... however i make a fair amount of cashish now, but the ppl who work with me average starting salary: $90,000, average salary after 5 years: $500,000, average salary after 10 to 15 years: $1,000,000... plus bonus... very rarely does one with out a conventional education make a great deal of money; let alone more than those figures... OR EVEN HIRED!!!the way most non-college educated individuals make big money, or are well off are if one owns their own business, and or inherits it... (and of course the oddball chance of luck or stardom)... well a house hold making 80 grand a year with out a college education is easy... my father and all his co workers do it and he's made 80 Grand ALONE for the past 20 years being a mechanic... That statistic is at best Marginaly true not to mention the vast differences in the population from which those statistics are drawn. how comes when a black person makes money it has to be because of affirmative action. statistically 40% of the people helped by affirmative action are white women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvingartist Posted April 15 Report Share Posted April 15 Originally posted by siceone this statistic really doesn't mean anythign the population sizes are no where near the same. and your SAT score means nothing once you're in college. I agree that statistic means nothing. And highschool performance including SAT scores have no correlation to college performance. However there is a correlation between those who perform exceptionally well in the verbal part of the SATs, they tend to have higher incomes. Ah just a few random statistics I have read. But I would never use either for promoting or standing against affirmative action. If you have ever taken a statistics course then you are quite skeptical to such published works, and the most important information such as margin of error or methods used are usually omitted. For example there are so many variables that might have negatively influenced teh results in Dg's example. Such as unreported income. Or more fundamentally the mean is the average which is highly susceptible to outliers. Dg can you link the site where you found this information. I really would like to see if they included the standard deviation, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvingartist Posted April 15 Report Share Posted April 15 Originally posted by dgmodel no everyone with a job makes money... but i am speaking about substantial monies... liquid monies... beaucoup duckettes... now i am all about the non-college grad making seven figures +, i strive to be one, one day... however i make a fair amount of cashish now, but the ppl who work with me average starting salary: $90,000, average salary after 5 years: $500,000, average salary after 10 to 15 years: $1,000,000... plus bonus... very rarely does one with out a conventional education make a great deal of money; let alone more than those figures... OR EVEN HIRED!!!the way most non-college educated individuals make big money, or are well off are if one owns their own business, and or inherits it... (and of course the oddball chance of luck or stardom)... Well actually you first statement says families with an income of less then 10,000. Now does this figure take into account inherited wealth? The richest people come from inherited wealth, and probably do not work. So you say everyone with a job makes money. Now I am saying some people with money do not have a job. I am growing more and more skeptical of this statistic, hehe. Please link the information or direct me to the source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvingartist Posted April 15 Report Share Posted April 15 Originally posted by dgmodel i can appreciate that however you NEED your SAT score to get into COLLEGE to begin with... The fact of the matter is there are poor people with low scores who get in. Just like there are rich people with low scores who get in as well. Money can buy you in, and so can the lack of it. Its evens out in a sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fineones Posted April 15 Report Share Posted April 15 damn did it again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgmodel Posted April 15 Author Report Share Posted April 15 Originally posted by starvingartist The fact of the matter is there are poor people with low scores who get in. Just like there are rich people with low scores who get in as well. Money can buy you in, and so can the lack of it. Its evens out in a sense. and then theres the rest of us... (middle class border line for the better or worse) who need our SAT's to get in along with grades... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgmodel Posted April 15 Author Report Share Posted April 15 Originally posted by starvingartist Well actually you first statement says families with an income of less then 10,000. Now does this figure take into account inherited wealth? The richest people come from inherited wealth, and probably do not work. So you say everyone with a job makes money. Now I am saying some people with money do not have a job. I am growing more and more skeptical of this statistic, hehe. Please link the information or direct me to the source. http://www.jbhe.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvingartist Posted April 15 Report Share Posted April 15 Originally posted by dgmodel http://www.jbhe.com/ Where exactly on that site? I am having difficulty finding that specific statistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted April 15 Report Share Posted April 15 affirmative action is the jim crow laws dressed up in a shroud of liberalismnot to mention that it often excludes certain minorities (that have long histories of being discriminated against) from "protection", such as Asians Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siceone Posted April 16 Report Share Posted April 16 Originally posted by bigpoppanils affirmative action is the jim crow laws dressed up in a shroud of liberalismnot to mention that it often excludes certain minorities (that have long histories of being discriminated against) from "protection", such as Asians smartest thing you have ever said... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgmodel Posted April 16 Author Report Share Posted April 16 Originally posted by starvingartist Where exactly on that site? I am having difficulty finding that specific statistic. http://www.jbhe.com/latest/37_b&w_sat.htmlthats the link to the article, It from The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education...http://nationaljournal.com/taylor.htmthe exact article is about a quarter of the way down... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgmodel Posted April 16 Author Report Share Posted April 16 Originally posted by starvingartist I agree that statistic means nothing. And highschool performance including SAT scores have no correlation to college performance. However there is a correlation between those who perform exceptionally well in the verbal part of the SATs, they tend to have higher incomes. Ah just a few random statistics I have read. But I would never use either for promoting or standing against affirmative action. If you have ever taken a statistics course then you are quite skeptical to such published works, and the most important information such as margin of error or methods used are usually omitted. For example there are so many variables that might have negatively influenced teh results in Dg's example. Such as unreported income. Or more fundamentally the mean is the average which is highly susceptible to outliers. Dg can you link the site where you found this information. I really would like to see if they included the standard deviation, etc. Outliers are important and they do not state the STD, Variance, Confidence bands etc... Generally I would take such a stat with a very large gain of salt, but when the "The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education" posts a stat regarding the state of blacks in education, I tend to take it at face value. They could have used any number of statistical tricks to alter the findings so why would they post this?On to outliers. The important thing here is the mean. I am sure there are white kids from families who make under $10,000 who get 400-500s on the SAT and ones that get 1500-1600, just as I am sure that there are blacks from families making over $100,000 that score in the same ranges. As long as the statisticians followed generally accepted guidelines then the information generated is accurate and telling. The importance of the quote seems to be missed. No one is trying to say that blacks are inferior to whites or even that affirmative action is a bad idea. Simply that race based affirmative action is not accomplishing the goals that it sets out to, to provide equal access to higher education and incentives to strive for high achievement. Unless you believe that African Americans are actually discriminated against in the selection process, which, considering the hyper-liberal attitude at most private universities, is completely without merit, there is no reason to a black student from an upper middle class family who scores lower then a white student from a family living below the poverty line. I would rather see the high achievers, regardless of race, rewarded with opportunities to realize their potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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