Iraq mass grave could total 11,000

[igloo]

MAHAWEEL, Iraq — American soldiers were helping villagers pull thousands of bodies out of a mass grave (search) in central Iraq on Wednesday. About 3,000 corpses have been exhumed so far, and U.S. military officials say the total could reach 11,000.

Many of the victims are believed to have been murdered during the 1991 Shiite revolt against Saddam Hussein's (search) regime.

"About 20 percent of them were buried alive, because they had no bullet wounds, but their hands were tied and they were blindfolded," said Amer Shumri, an official from the governor's office in Hillah.

Fox News learned that 719 bodies -- including women and children -- were identified through documents found on or near the bodies.

The mass grave in this village outside Hillah, 60 miles south of Baghdad, is the largest found in Iraq since U.S. forces overthrew Saddam and his Baath Party (search) government last month. It's believed there may be dozens more sites like it in Iraq.

Hundreds of people from nearby towns and villages watched from behind a barbed-wire barrier as sets of remains were pulled from the field and set aside wrapped in plastic bags, sheets and blankets. Some of the skulls still had tufts of long hair, and officials said they probably were women.

People searched desperately for anything that could help identify the dead. Faded identity cards, certain dental structures, wallets, eyeglasses and broken bones were among the clues people looked for to try to identify family members who were among the 200,000 people who disappeared in Iraq during the past decade.

Bushra Jabbar, 43, was overcome by grief when the bodies of her mother and two sisters were dug up. She threw the dirt from the graves over her own head, as if to bury herself with it, Reuters reported.

"Here they are. These are the bodies of my mother and my two sisters," said Jabbar, sitting in the dirt and wailing as workers dug up her loved ones' remains. She said she recognized her mother from her long braided hair and her golden jewelry.

Many of the onlookers were weeping, and some chanted: "There is no God but God, and the Baath (Party) is the enemy of God." Several women were holding pictures of their missing men.

One woman wailed and wept while holding up an old picture of a loved one she was searching for, waving her arm toward the tattered clothes still on the bones of victims at her feet.

Rafed Husseini, a doctor leading the group of local men doing the digging, said 3,000 bodies had either been retrieved or located in the past nine days. About half had been identified mainly through documents found on the bodies, he said.

He estimated that between 10,000 to 15,000 Iraqis had been reported missing in a large region south of Baghdad.

He said local farmers who had witnessed some of the killings by Saddam's forces had alerted them of the mass graves. "They saw the crimes taking place but did not dare talk about them at the time," Husseini said.

Villagers from Mahaweel began the dig by bringing in a bulldozer to open up the site.

"We are organizing it and we are digging," said Abuzaid Dinar, the village headman. He said his dead father and brother were buried somewhere in the area, where several separate mass graves were spread out over about a half-mile-square area.

Some Iraqis told Fox News reporters on the scene that they wanted to say "thank you" to U.S. and coalition forces for getting rid of Saddam -- "the worst man that ever lived on this earth."

Wednesday's excavation came two days after Iraqis pulled bodies from another recently discovered mass grave near the southern city of Basra. That site was believed to contain remains of up to 150 Shiite Muslims killed by Saddam's regime after a rebellion in 1999.

Human rights groups believe Iraq is dotted with mass graves.

Shiites rose up against Saddam after the 1991 Gulf War but were crushed by the Iraqi leader and his police and military apparatus. Thousands of Shiites were killed.

Many Shiites had expected more U.S. help in their revolt. Some have expressed bitterness, saying the United States under former President Bush had not intervened to save them from Saddam's wrath. Some say this has led to their reluctance to rise up more than they did during Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Sukna al-Jbouri, who stood beside the barbed wire, said she had come to find her son Hilal, who was 19 when he was arrested in 1991.

"I was walking with my son in the street and the army came and picked him up," she said. "I tried to stop them but they took him, I don't know why."

U.S. Marines were securing the site and brought water and camouflage netting to protect onlookers from the blistering sun.

"We are to help facilitate the reunion of victims and families," said Capt. David Romley from the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, who added that his unit had only heard about the site two days earlier. "They want to excavate the site themselves."

"We can take this evidence and present it to a future Iraqi judiciary," he said.

But Peter Bouckaert, a researcher with Human Rights Watch, criticized the U.S.-led administration in Iraq, saying forensic experts should have been sent to Hillah and local people should be the ones to excavate the graves.

"The way they're doing it is, they are destroying evidence," Bouckaert said. "It's an absolutely shameful failure on the part of the U.S. government."

He said at least 200,000 people had disappeared in Iraq during the past decade, and that human rights groups knew the locations of many other mass grave sites throughout the country.

Elsewhere in Iraq on Wednesday:

-- A military vehicle overturned in northern Iraq, killing one U.S. soldier with the 101st Airborne Division and injuring another, officers and witnesses at the scene said.

-- The New York Times reported that the new U.S. administration for Iraq will now let U.S. forces shoot looters on sight to discourage the rampant lawlessness that has persisted for weeks.

-- The Iraqi Ministry of Higher Education and Scientific Research used coalition-run radio to call on people to return equipment that was looted from universities in the wake of the U.S. invasion.

Fox News' Greg Palkot and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

[cintron]

yeah... it's fucking horrifying to see shit like this.

I could care less what the left says - whether or not we find WMD, I still wonder how many other graves just like this we'll find.

starting to look eerily like a smaller-scale holocaust more and more every day

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by cintron

yeah... it's fucking horrifying to see shit like this.

I could care less what the left says - whether or not we find WMD, I still wonder how many other graves just like this we'll find.

starting to look eerily like a smaller-scale holocaust more and more every day

True this war is justified I just hope to GOD people don't blame the U.S. for those deaths.. I can see people blame us for the uprising in the first place...

[sassa]

Originally posted by mr mahs

True this war is justified I just hope to GOD people don't blame the U.S. for those deaths.. I can see people blame us for the uprising in the first place...

you see, you're letting your emotions get in the way. this war is NOT JUSTIFIED. those graves were not the reason the administration gave for entering iraq, so please don't justify their actions because of this. true, these graves and what saddam did to these people was not justified, but neither is the US occupying iraq by force.

[igloo]

The WMD will be found.....this is just another case, I hate to admit, where the Hussein regime outsmarted everyone again...

I find it startling that people still question whether Iraq had WMD, despite the "smoking gun" not being found yet...common sense must be applied

It took almost 7 years for weapons inspectors after the first Gulf War to get a somewhat accurate reading on his WMD program (which was worse than anyone thought), and then in 1998 they were forced out......leaving a stockpile of weapons and a program...this was confirmed by the UN and the international community (this is fact)

Can anyone honestly believe that from 1998-2003 that Hussein and his regime destroyed his remaining WMD out of the goodness of his heart???????...the same regime that was capable of brutal mass murder, which gets scarier with each passing day

In addition, during those 7 years, it was confirmed that Iraq continually made attempts to hide this program and his WMD.....again, from 1998-2003, did Hussein wake up one morning and decide to stop mastering the art of deception and concealment?

What about all the former UN inspectors and Iraqi defectors who claimed with compete confidence that Iraq still had a comprehensive WMD program after 1998.....are EVERY one of them complete liars and the Iraqi regime is not??????

If Hussein did not have WMD, why wouldn't he just cooperate with the international community, show proof of their alleged destruction, and avoid his demise.........after all, everyone claims that Hussein is such a survivor.....

When Clinton was President he claimed Iraq had WMD and almost went to war over it.... why didn't anyone question his administration on those claims?...but Bush claims the same thing, and he is a liar?...hmmmmmm

IMO, the question that should be asked is not if he had them, but where are they.....it is a frightening thought that if they are not buried miles deep in the desert, that the WMD are in the wrong hands, and a self-fulfilling prophecy (WMD to terrorists) was born when the UN and the world were dicking around....

I find it frightening that, aside from the mobile labs, not a stitch of evidence has been found (materials, documents, etc)....I think conspiracy theorists should be more concerned with that, and less on the fact that the US just "made it up"....

I also understand that US credibility is on the line in the international community, and these WMD must be found....and this will be a massive intelligence failure if the US does not find them.....but I find it disgraceful that some here and in the media (the anti-US left) seem to be actively rooting against the US .....

The question is why?...the answer...so the anti-US left, whose long list of doomsday predictions leading up to the war all proved false, will have one thing to hang their hat on, and feel good about themselves in saying "I told you so"...yet at the same time, ignoring the atrocities, the liberation, and the tremendous upside from this operation.....

[sassa]

if you have a shaky foundation with something to begin with, what makes you think it will withhold, even if you manage to "find" whatever it is you are seeking?

a house won't stay if its foundation is made of mud, same goes for the US's reasons for creating this war...all built of accusations and bullshit, 2 failed attempts to engage the international community, and (surprisingly) oil prices skyrocketing just before it starts...i wonder why....

anyone familiar with the supply and demand theory? i don't think we are at a loss for oil just yet, BUT we still had to endure the high prices for gas...i wonder why??? it's definitely not because we were running out....

[igloo]

Originally posted by sassa

you see, you're letting your emotions get in the way. this war is NOT JUSTIFIED. those graves were not the reason the administration gave for entering iraq, so please don't justify their actions because of this. true, these graves and what saddam did to these people was not justified, but neither is the US occupying iraq by force.

you are lost

[igloo]

Originally posted by sassa

if you have a shaky foundation with something to begin with, what makes you think it will withhold, even if you manage to "find" whatever it is you are seeking?

a house won't stay if its foundation is made of mud, same goes for the US's reasons for creating this war...all built of accusations and bullshit, 2 failed attempts to engage the international community, and (surprisingly) oil prices skyrocketing just before it starts...i wonder why....

anyone familiar with the supply and demand theory? i don't think we are at a loss for oil just yet, BUT we still had to endure the high prices for gas...i wonder why??? it's definitely not because we were running out....

:laugh:

[sassa]

Originally posted by igloo

you are lost

anyone who doesn't agree with you is apparently lost...

face it, what the US is doing right now in the middle east is nothing short of modern day imperialism...masked with bullshit excuses for "saving" and aiding a people...yeah right...i'm sure they care sooo much for the iraqis and afghans that they would spend over $400 billion (or more) on wars that will help them become better people in the end...sure. do you think people are morons??? you expect them to believe this shit???

if you want to get sucked into their vaccuum of deceipt and greed, fine. but i and many others won't buy into that crap. and just because we don't, doesn't make us "lost" :rolleyes:

and i thought i had problems...

[igloo]

Originally posted by sassa

anyone who doesn't agree with you is apparently lost...

face it, what the US is doing right now in the middle east is nothing short of modern day imperialism...masked with bullshit excuses for "saving" and aiding a people...yeah right...i'm sure they care sooo much for the iraqis and afghans that they would spend over $400 billion (or more) on wars that will help them become better people in the end...sure. do you think people are morons??? you expect them to believe this shit???

if you want to get sucked into their vaccuum of deceipt and greed, fine. but i and many others won't buy into that crap. and just because we don't, doesn't make us "lost" :rolleyes:

and i thought i had problems...

[sassa]

Originally posted by igloo

whatever... i've already realized a long time ago that it is useless to try and debate with you....

[igloo]

Originally posted by sassa

whatever... i've already realized a long time ago that it is useless to try and debate with you....

Join us on Planet Earth, and I will debate you

[sassa]

Originally posted by igloo

Join us on Planet Earth, and I will debate you

oh please. the majority of planet earth won't agree with you and you know it.

why must you be such a prick...i don't understand...

[cintron]

Sassa don't kid yourself. As a member of the antiwar crowd, you are a MINORITY. The TV might show millions of protestors, but they don't show the ten and hundred million supporters.

Granted, I think we as a country need to point things out more clearly, because there are too many nagging assholes who want to see everything perfect on paper...

but i think those answers won't be found overnight.

Hussein would've grown more bold over time and would've become more of an asshole. A tyrant who is allowed to stay a tyrant will not choose to become less of one.

I'm sure a lot of people might have sided with the war if Iraq was shown to be directly responsible for something... but it's so difficult to prove that either way. Hard to prove guilt and also hard to prove they AREN"T involved in something shady.

People say we don't belong there and that we're all about greed and corruption...

i say save your breath. This is not the same smoke and mirrors politics of the 60's and 70's. We do what we can to keep the American public informed and if we aren't 100% sure about something, we will say so.

Might we be in this war in order to gain favorable advantages on the oil market and other matters? Of course we would. Wouldn't you? It's not like we're stealing from the Iraqi people, so please again, save your breath.

This war is NOT about oil and the pittance that Iraq is capable of pumping would barely drive the cost of oil down a few cents.

Sometimes i really t hink a lot of leftists are caught up in a romantic struggle against a corrupt and "imperialistic" [thanks, Karl Marx] government, that they refuse to believe anything that would shatter their self-righteous little story.

Contrary to your opinion, we ARE an honorable country and we ARE trying to do what we see as the right thing. We kicked Saddam out, we're helping Iraq form a new government and we're going to help their oil industry get started so they can find a way to pay off their national debt AND rejoin the world community as a contributing member, not as a regional cancer.

Complain all you want about our "evil" intentions, i'm sick of hearing it. Every step of the way people have not hesitated one moment to shit all over America and everything it represents.

And pretty much every step of the way, the government and military have managed to make those people eat their own words. It might take time to find this "smoking gun" as people call it, but it will eventually be found one way or another.

Remember there is a TON going on that doesn't make the 6 O'Clock news.

[sassa]

Originally posted by cintron

Sassa don't kid yourself. As a member of the antiwar crowd, you are a MINORITY. The TV might show millions of protestors, but they don't show the ten and hundred million supporters.

Granted, I think we as a country need to point things out more clearly, because there are too many nagging assholes who want to see everything perfect on paper...

but i think those answers won't be found overnight.

Hussein would've grown more bold over time and would've become more of an asshole. A tyrant who is allowed to stay a tyrant will not choose to become less of one.

I'm sure a lot of people might have sided with the war if Iraq was shown to be directly responsible for something... but it's so difficult to prove that either way. Hard to prove guilt and also hard to prove they AREN"T involved in something shady.

People say we don't belong there and that we're all about greed and corruption...

i say save your breath. This is not the same smoke and mirrors politics of the 60's and 70's. We do what we can to keep the American public informed and if we aren't 100% sure about something, we will say so.

Might we be in this war in order to gain favorable advantages on the oil market and other matters? Of course we would. Wouldn't you? It's not like we're stealing from the Iraqi people, so please again, save your breath.

This war is NOT about oil and the pittance that Iraq is capable of pumping would barely drive the cost of oil down a few cents.

Sometimes i really t hink a lot of leftists are caught up in a romantic struggle against a corrupt and "imperialistic" [thanks, Karl Marx] government, that they refuse to believe anything that would shatter their self-righteous little story.

Contrary to your opinion, we ARE an honorable country and we ARE trying to do what we see as the right thing. We kicked Saddam out, we're helping Iraq form a new government and we're going to help their oil industry get started so they can find a way to pay off their national debt AND rejoin the world community as a contributing member, not as a regional cancer.

Complain all you want about our "evil" intentions, i'm sick of hearing it. Every step of the way people have not hesitated one moment to shit all over America and everything it represents.

And pretty much every step of the way, the government and military have managed to make those people eat their own words. It might take time to find this "smoking gun" as people call it, but it will eventually be found one way or another.

Remember there is a TON going on that doesn't make the 6 O'Clock news.

now, exactly which one of us is living in a romantic dream, deluding themself? honorable? trying to pay off their national debt and get their oil industry going? what the fuck? are you dreaming? certainly you cannot be so naive as to think that the US won't want to put their finger in Iraq's pie...that's bullshit.

Of course this war has a great deal with exploiting their resources and taking advantage of them while they are down. Over 75% of Iraq's population is under 25, not many people can say anything when it comes to an imposing larger power coming to their land to rule over them. Give these people a chance to work out their problems and leave them the fuck alone. No one ever asked this country to invade Iraq, and not once can you believe the crap this country spews about going in there. They've lied several times in the past about other "honorable" deeds they were doing (The Korean War, Vietnam, even WWII, which Pres. Roosevelt could have avoided, but chose not to).The reasons you stated, as eloquent and noble as you'd like them to be, are NOT the reasons why we are invading the region and robbing them for everything they're worth.

p.s. I am in the minority??? ME?? I'd say you have it the other way around...outside of these borders, there aren't too many people thrilled about what the US is doing in Iraq, so please don't try to disillusion yourself...

[normalnoises]

When over 70% of the world opposed the war on Iraq, how can THAT be a minority??

[cintron]

uh huh.

We're looking at a mass grave of 11,000 men, women and children and all you can go on about is how horrible the american political machine is to other countries and how naieve I must be not to see that as the obvious god's truth.

oh wait, and the obligatory Sassa "rolleyes" afterwards. Seriously, change the pattern. This is beyond old and beyond irritating.

You know, the day i see 11,000 of YOU in a field, buried by bulldozers, THEN i'll believe that the US government is doing some horrible things. Until that day, you can't expect me to hate my own country, just because your idealistic notions have already led you to blame your country for any wrongdoing in this world.

I seriously doubt any of you see the good in ANYTHING.

[igloo]

Originally posted by sassa

"we are invading the region and robbing them for everything they're worth"

This is why you are a delusional schmuck with zero credibility..

[monicac]

Originally posted by mr mahs

True this war is justified I just hope to GOD people don't blame the U.S. for those deaths.. I can see people blame us for the uprising in the first place...

Wait.....I might be wrong about this, but wasn´t the 1991 uprising the one we DID encourage, by funneling weapons through Iran, then when it went wrong turned our backs and let the people be massacred? Which has nothing to do with what is going on now....it was a different administration, but still....

[sassa]

Originally posted by cintron

uh huh.

We're looking at a mass grave of 11,000 men, women and children and all you can go on about is how horrible the american political machine is to other countries and how naieve I must be not to see that as the obvious god's truth.

oh wait, and the obligatory Sassa "rolleyes" afterwards. Seriously, change the pattern. This is beyond old and beyond irritating.

You know, the day i see 11,000 of YOU in a field, buried by bulldozers, THEN i'll believe that the US government is doing some horrible things. Until that day, you can't expect me to hate my own country, just because your idealistic notions have already led you to blame your country for any wrongdoing in this world.

I seriously doubt any of you see the good in ANYTHING.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[cintron]

Originally posted by sassa

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

just like a 5 year old.

look at me when i'm talking to you.

[sassa]

Originally posted by cintron

just like a 5 year old.

look at me when i'm talking to you.

lol, you take this seriously? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[cintron]

Originally posted by sassa

lol, you take this seriously? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

hehe not really.

do ANY of us on this forum take anything seriously?