From Moveon.Org...

[sassa]

Three weeks ago, MoveOn launched a petition asking Congress to create an independent commission to investigate whether the Bush Administration manipulated and distorted evidence to take the country to war in Iraq. Over 190,000 of us joined the effort. Now Congress is literally taking up our call: Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) has written a bill that would create just such a commission, and it's already co-sponsored by a wide array of moderate Democrats -- including many who voted for the war.

This commission can really happen -- and the truth about the Bush Administration's manipulation of evidence can really come out -- but we'll need your help. We're launching a drive to get every member of Congress to personally pledge to support and vote for the independent commission. Please take a moment to ask Congressman Waxman to pledge today at:

http://moveon.org/wmdpledge

If you sign right now, your comment may be among those read on the House floor by some of the Representatives pushing this resolution. Reps. Henry Waxman (D-CA), Barbara Lee (D-CA), George Miller (D-CA), Sherrod Brown (D-OH), Lloyd Doggett (D-TX), Rosa DeLauro (D-CT), and a number of others are looking forward to hearing what you have to say and reading some of the messages into the Congressional Record on the House floor.

It's hardly a secret that members of the Bush Administration used misleading and scanty evidence to bolster their case. As US News and World Report noted in early June, even Colin Powell became alarmed at the level of intelligence distortion. When he read the first draft of his speech to the UN -- prepared for Powell by Vice President Richard Cheney's chief of staff -- he was so upset at the weakness of some of the evidence that he lost his temper, throwing several pages in the air and declaring, "I'm not reading this. This is bullshit." (US News and World Report, 6/9/03, URL below)

Breaking news over the last few days has shown how untrustworthy the Bush Administration is on this issue:

The White House has finally admitted that the President's State of the Union statement that Iraq was trying to procure nuclear materials from Niger was wrong, but officials remain adamant that the Administration did not mislead the public.

Ambassador Joe Wilson, who was sent to Niger in February 2002 to determine whether Iraq was trying to purchase uranium materials there, concluded in a recent New York Times Op-Ed that "I have little choice but to conclude that some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat."

An official British investigation into two trailers found in northern Iraq -- the trailers that the President referred to when he said, "We found the weapons of mass destruction" -- has concluded that the trailers were definitely not related to weapons production. As one scientist told a British newspaper, "They are not mobile germ warfare laboratories. You could not use them for making biological weapons. They do not even look like them. They are exactly what the Iraqis said they were - facilities for the production of hydrogen gas to fill balloons."

The evidence that supported the war is unraveling, and it's time for Congress to hold the President and his administration accountable. As Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) said in a recent statement, "What else did the Bush Administration lie about? What other faulty information did Administration officials, including President Bush, tell the American people and the world? Did the Bush Administration knowingly deceive us and manufacture intelligence in order to build public support for the invasion of Iraq? Did Iraq really pose an imminent threat to our nation? These questions must be answered. The American people deserve to know the full truth."

Ask your Member of Congress to pledge to reveal the truth right now by signing the petition at:

http://moveon.org/wmdpledge

We should know if the war in Iraq was a war built on deception.For more information, check out our recent bulletin on about Iraq intelligence:

http://www.moveon.org/moveonbulletin/bulletin21.html

The article in which Colin Powell is quoted as saying "I'm not reading this. This is bullshit." is available online for $2.95 at:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/archive/030609/20030609040506.php

---

[PCR]

If people didn't know or didn't care to know the facts BEFORE the US went to war - I don't think it will do much good now.

Frankly I feel that most Americans are now the easiest bunch of sheep to manipulate. We live in the age of misinformation and we are happy about it. (in our own ignorant way).

however, I am glad you posted it - whatever little education to the public can be provided is good

[skince55]

Originally posted by PCR

If people didn't know or didn't care to know the facts BEFORE the US went to war - I don't think it will do much good now.

Frankly I feel that most Americans are now the easiest bunch of sheep to manipulate. We live in the age of misinformation and we are happy about it. (in our own ignorant way).

however, I am glad you posted it - whatever little education to the public can be provided is good

And exactly what are we supposed to believe if all news sources are saying the same thing. Should we tune into Al-Jazeera or Abu Dhabi? Wasn't it Al-Jazeera who was broadcasting up until the day Baghdad fell that Iraq was not doing so bad in the war? I remember reading quotes from Arabs from other countries such as Egypt saying no one believes Al-Jazeera anymore and they lost all their credibility? Or perhaps we should concoct our own conspiracy theories? If America was misguided (which I am not agreeing that it was) then fine, but don't act as if the United States is the only place that has ever happened in.

[PCR]

skince55: I am hinting here at a much larger problem.

Not only is the media biased but also the majority of citizens are no longer as vigilant as they used to be.

I am an American and I love this country but there are many things that are scary and remind me of some communist governments.

I spent a total of 12 yrs of my 30 yrs life in various countries, mostly in Eastern and Western Europe.

One thing I must say - people there are much, much more aware of internal and international affairs.

For starters we (Americans) should learn some history so that we know and understand why the international situation is the way it is. And more importantly - so that we don't make the same mistakes - history could be your best teacher.

Also, don't go into another extreme: "....Should we tune into Al-Jazeera or Abu Dhabi?...."

I never said we should watch them - I said, we should question what OUR government is saying, especially when it involves such drastic and dramatic actions as war/military conflict and human lives - not to mention billions of dollars redirected into something that may be ineffective and futile in securing prosperity and well-being of this nation.

Also, your statement : ..."but don't act as if the United States is the only place that has ever happened in" is flawed.

1. I wasn't referring to other governments anywhere in my posts – so you can’t assume that I would justify their action.

2. Even if other gover. practice propaganda, it doesn't mean that our leaders should do the same - don't justify wrong-doing by saying that others are doing it as well.

All I am saying is that I can’t recall our society (or any other in the western democracies) ever being so self-satisfied and unaware of their own leaders actions, motives and directions....except maybe for Romans just before the Empire collapsed

[sassa]

nice post, pcp.

[skince55]

Originally posted by PCR

skince55: I am hinting here at a much larger problem.

Not only is the media biased but also the majority of citizens are no longer as vigilant as they used to be.

I am an American and I love this country but there are many things that are scary and remind me of some communist governments.

I spent a total of 12 yrs of my 30 yrs life in various countries, mostly in Eastern and Western Europe.

One thing I must say - people there are much, much more aware of internal and international affairs.

For starters we (Americans) should learn some history so that we know and understand why the international situation is the way it is. And more importantly - so that we don't make the same mistakes - history could be your best teacher.

Also, don't go into another extreme: "....Should we tune into Al-Jazeera or Abu Dhabi?...."

I never said we should watch them - I said, we should question what OUR government is saying, especially when it involves such drastic and dramatic actions as war/military conflict and human lives - not to mention billions of dollars redirected into something that may be ineffective and futile in securing prosperity and well-being of this nation.

Also, your statement : ..."but don't act as if the United States is the only place that has ever happened in" is flawed.

1. I wasn't referring to other governments anywhere in my posts – so you can’t assume that I would justify their action.

2. Even if other gover. practice propaganda, it doesn't mean that our leaders should do the same - don't justify wrong-doing by saying that others are doing it as well.

All I am saying is that I can’t recall our society (or any other in the western democracies) ever being so self-satisfied and unaware of their own leaders actions, motives and directions....except maybe for Romans just before the Empire collapsed

Me bringing in the other extreme and what other governments are doing is directly related to your comment: "Frankly I feel that most Americans are now the easiest bunch of sheep to manipulate."

[skince55]

Originally posted by sassa

nice post, pcp.

I think its PCR. What is on your mind?

[igloo]

Originally posted by PCR

All I am saying is that I can’t recall our society (or any other in the western democracies) ever being so self-satisfied and unaware of their own leaders actions, motives and directions....except maybe for Romans just before the Empire collapsed

I could not disagree with you more....I actually think that is an absolutely ridiculous and baseless statement on your part

Just because the majority of the country supports their leaders does not automatically mean the majority of the majority are self-satisfied or uninformed....that is leftist, hypocritical elitist condescending bullshit.....

Also, to say that "I said, we should question what OUR government is saying, especially when it involves such drastic and dramatic actions as war/military conflict and human lives"

Are you kidding me???....are you saying this was not done?????

The Iraq issue was beaten, and questioned, and analyzed, and op-edized, and discussed, and debated more and for longer than any issue in recent memory........what planet are you on?

To say that this administration does not get "questioned" is again a leftist, anti-war hyper-scream because the majority of the country supports their actions, and the left and the anti-Bush crowd is going to once again be on the "wrong side of history".......

My suggestion to you is jump on the "Bush lied about WMD" bandwagon, because when that accusation is proven false (it actualy already is), the anti-war crowd will be o-fer on their doomsday predictions......

Or once that is done, you and Sassa and her drivel could sing songs about the collapse of the big, bad American empire......

[sassa]

Originally posted by skince55

I think its PCR. What is on your mind?

my mistake.

[PCR]

Relax igloo.... I believe my post is accurate and correct.

You say that the nation supports the president BECAUSE they believe him, are well informed and support his actions/decisions based on the facts.

Well, my friend - that is Bullshit.

All the people I’ve heard that support president Bush were completely misinformed or lacked certain information that – when presented to them – they started to think twice.

Of course there are also those hicks that believed this is our way of showing the World not to fuck with America. The only comments they could make was: “go nuke those fucking towelheadsâ€.

As if that was supposed to do any good.

Rather than accusing me of being a communist or anti-war (I am anti-war if a war is NOT justified) - why don't you pick up some books or news reports - you don't have to go to a far left - try watching BBC from time to time.

Or maybe just try to become more familiar with the current position of our administration on the many topics that should concern you as a citizen of this country.

Not only foreign affairs, but also domestic (environment, corporate, social benefits, economy, etc etc…)

I really don't like discussing politics over the internet - but I'd be glad to hear you out and present my opinions supported by facts if you were inclined to listen.

Let’s face it – we will only know of this administration’s “achievements†20 yrs down the road. When we will both be able to judge them from historical point of view.

As of now I stand by my opinion that they are bad for the country.

[skince55]

PCR.....I disagree with your views so far but you seem to be more levelheaded then a few of the liberals on here. My question is do you think it is a justified statement to say that the US today is no better than Nazi Germany? Many of the Liberals in here agree with that statement and I am curious about your opinion. I know I keep bringing this up but it just blows my mind how anyone can say such thing.

[igloo]

Originally posted by PCR

Relax igloo.... I believe my post is accurate and correct.

You say that the nation supports the president BECAUSE they believe him, are well informed and support his actions/decisions based on the facts.

Well, my friend - that is Bullshit.

All the people I’ve heard that support president Bush were completely misinformed or lacked certain information that – when presented to them – they started to think twice.

Of course there are also those hicks that believed this is our way of showing the World not to fuck with America. The only comments they could make was: “go nuke those fucking towelheadsâ€.

As if that was supposed to do any good.

Rather than accusing me of being a communist or anti-war (I am anti-war if a war is NOT justified) - why don't you pick up some books or news reports - you don't have to go to a far left - try watching BBC from time to time.

Or maybe just try to become more familiar with the current position of our administration on the many topics that should concern you as a citizen of this country.

Not only foreign affairs, but also domestic (environment, corporate, social benefits, economy, etc etc…)

I really don't like discussing politics over the internet - but I'd be glad to hear you out and present my opinions supported by facts if you were inclined to listen.

Let’s face it – we will only know of this administration’s “achievements†20 yrs down the road. When we will both be able to judge them from historical point of view.

As of now I stand by my opinion that they are bad for the country.

You relax with your condescending blanket statements..

What people are you talking about that were misinformed....and what information did they lack....and what information from what secret source made them change their mind.....WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

And I am not refering to the "hick" who only wants to "kill a raghead".....I have a problem with you thinking that just because people supported the war means they are "mindless sheep" who are misinformed.....THAT IS BULLSHIT my "friend".....

And my anti-war "friend"....this war was justified...for more reason than one....MORE REASONS THAN ONE....pull your head out of you ass......

You lost all credibility citing BBC as a source of credible and non-biased reporting.......you can not possibly be that blind

And for the record, and only since you brought it up like a condescending elitist--my shelves are filled with books on many topics, and I delve into a variety of news sources ....and I also try to get as much balance as possible so I can make my own objective thoughts---so stick your elitist attitude up your ass

And who the fuck are you to say "Or maybe just try to become more familiar with the current position of our administration on the many topics that should concern you as a citizen of this country. Not only foreign affairs, but also domestic (environment, corporate, social benefits, economy, etc etc…)"

Fuck you condescending dickhead.....shove your snug attitude and baseless lecturing back up your ass.....don't make statements about someone you know nothing about....

If you want honest debate and discussion, drop the elitist attitude, stop making baseless blanket statements, and stop projecting that your opinion is the only one based on being "informed"....

If not, fuck you

[PCR]

igloo - thanks for proving my point

skince55: of course you can't compare our leaders to Nazi - that's way too far.

The funny thing is that people who did compare Saddam to Hitler were somehow wrong too - I mean, he was a monster and a mass-murderer but his motivations, ideologies and other factors were far from that of the Third Reich. And he surely didn't desire World domination - a very important point for the Nazi.

if anything, I can say that out leaders are perpetuating a dangerous international situation (well, maybe with the exception of the recent changes in the Israel-Palestine conflict) - there has been some improvement.

But still - why would we want to give over $3 billion annually to Israel, mostly in military assistance and some economic funding - knowing that they are one of the very few countries that have nukes, biological as well as chemical weapons. I thought US wants the end of those sorts of things anywhere in the World.

Not to mention that Israel is breaking most of the Geneva conventions on POWs, occupation laws etc...

Don't you think we'd be better of with $3 billions invested in schools and hospitals in the middle east - if not even in our own country????- don't you think that this maybe help them understand that US priority is not to divide and conquer.

PS: I am not of Arabic descent – I am an American - and I don't really support Palestinians blowing themselves up - but at least I know that they are not just doing this because of boredom or even religious motives (some of them at least – though unfortunately religion is being used to persuade others).

This story goes back to the end of WWII and the creation of the Israel state.

It also involves England, US and few other countries that at the time dictated the conditions of post WWII geopolitical environment in the middle east.

just one of the examples I thought I mention

[skince55]

Originally posted by PCR

igloo - thanks for proving my point

skince55: of course you can't compare our leaders to Nazi - that's way too far.

The funny thing is that people who did compare Saddam to Hitler were somehow wrong too - I mean, he was a monster and a mass-murderer but his motivations, ideologies and other factors were far from that of the Third Reich. And he surely didn't desire World domination - a very important point for the Nazi.

if anything, I can say that out leaders are perpetuating a dangerous international situation (well, maybe with the exception of the recent changes in the Israel-Palestine conflict) - there has been some improvement.

But still - why would we want to give over $3 billion annually to Israel, mostly in military assistance and some economic funding - knowing that they are one of the very few countries that have nukes, biological as well as chemical weapons. I thought US wants the end of those sorts of things anywhere in the World.

Not to mention that Israel is breaking most of the Geneva conventions on POWs, occupation laws etc...

Don't you think we'd be better of with $3 billions invested in schools and hospitals in the middle east - if not even in our own country????- don't you think that this maybe help them understand that US priority is not to divide and conquer.

PS: I am not of Arabic descent – I am an American - and I don't really support Palestinians blowing themselves up - but at least I know that they are not just doing this because of boredom or even religious motives (some of them at least – though unfortunately religion is being used to persuade others).

This story goes back to the end of WWII and the creation of the Israel state.

It also involves England, US and few other countries that at the time dictated the conditions of post WWII geopolitical environment in the middle east.

just one of the examples I thought I mention

Well at least your not an extremist like most liberals on here.

[igloo]

Originally posted by PCR

igloo - thanks for proving my point

You had no point....you really had no point....labeling people who supported the war as "mindless sheep" and "uninformed" was inaccurate and absurd......you were wrong, plain and simple......I suggest you become "informed" ......

You did save yourself somewhat from distancing yourself from the left's cry of comparison between U.S. leaders and Nazi's.......but then blew it by questioning the US relationship with Israel, and the amount of aid given to Israel (and fail to mention how much the U.S. gives to other ME countries), and then making the simpleton statement "wouldn't the money be better for hospitals" and the Palestinian story goes back to WWII and the creation of the Israeli state"

Son, you are a simpleton who has a long way to go.....

[PCR]

Shows how much you know....from an official report:

"Total U.S. aid to Israel is approximately one-third of the American foreign- aid budget, even though Israel comprises just .001 percent of the world's population and already has one of the world's highest per capita incomes. Indeed, Israel's GNP is higher than the combined GNP of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza. With a per capita income of about $14,000, Israel ranks as the sixteenth wealthiest country in the world" and here: "Indeed, all past U.S. loans to Israel have eventually been forgiven by Congress, which has undoubtedly helped Israel's often-touted claim that they have never defaulted on a U.S. government loan. "

Somehow Bush doesn't want to talk about forgiving loans to the poorest, struggling African nations, even though it would be blessing for their economy and hopefully bring about some changes to make stable, prosperous democracies in this ravage continent.

Now you tell me those "reason" for the war in Iraq - besides controlling oil and I will ask you why US doesn't want to get involved in over 140 military dictatorships around the world. I guess Liberia with the president Taylor who did worked with Al-Quada in the past isn't much of a reward for Bush and his corporations.

I mean, WTF would the US gain from controlling that God forsaken country.

You see, I am no longer interested in conversing here with you because so far you said nothing but a bunch of profanities.

You gave no examples to support YOUR position and help me understand where you are coming from.

[igloo]

Originally posted by PCR

.

You see, I am no longer interested in conversing here with you because so far you said nothing but a bunch of profanities.

You gave no examples to support YOUR position and help me understand where you are coming from.

For once, I agree..I an no longer interested in conversing with you since it is obvious you are simply anti-Bush....and quite frankly, you have not provided ONE fact except an obvious bias against Bush

Your little "fact" about how much US spends with Israel is not groundbreaking news retard....But what is obvious is you can't comprehend why the US has a relationship with Israel....simpleton....

You shouldn't need me or a messageboard to explain that you...

And you lost what little credibility you had with your tired, "War for Oil" cry.....pathetic

And your Liberia intervetion statement--why Iraq and not in 140 other places once again demonstrates you are a simpleton...

I am bored with you.....stick to making "No war for Oil" t-shirts and reading comic books

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by PCR

Shows how much you know....from an official report:

"Total U.S. aid to Israel is approximately one-third of the American foreign- aid budget, even though Israel comprises just .001 percent of the world's population and already has one of the world's highest per capita incomes. Indeed, Israel's GNP is higher than the combined GNP of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza. With a per capita income of about $14,000, Israel ranks as the sixteenth wealthiest country in the world" and here: "Indeed, all past U.S. loans to Israel have eventually been forgiven by Congress, which has undoubtedly helped Israel's often-touted claim that they have never defaulted on a U.S. government loan. "

Somehow Bush doesn't want to talk about forgiving loans to the poorest, struggling African nations, even though it would be blessing for their economy and hopefully bring about some changes to make stable, prosperous democracies in this ravage continent.

Now you tell me those "reason" for the war in Iraq - besides controlling oil and I will ask you why US doesn't want to get involved in over 140 military dictatorships around the world. I guess Liberia with the president Taylor who did worked with Al-Quada in the past isn't much of a reward for Bush and his corporations.

I mean, WTF would the US gain from controlling that God forsaken country.

You see, I am no longer interested in conversing here with you because so far you said nothing but a bunch of profanities.

You gave no examples to support YOUR position and help me understand where you are coming from.

Why do we lend a helping hand to Isreal?? Simple it's the only democracy in the land and it was founded after the single most horifying genecide in human history and with out our help the 2nd holocaust would have happened already...

I to discredit your opinion because you rely on a slanted

anti-bush, anti-american news org as your source for information..

Here is a little story coming from A so-called mindless sheep..

When the WAR started I was vacationing in Miami and the only source of info was BBC news for cable and the N.Y Times as far as a newspaper. I got sick to mystomach and it partially ruined my vacation because according to these SLANTED reports we were losing the WAR from predictions of 2nd Vietnam to front page pictures of a supply convoy ambush that killed 9 of our guys BULLSHIT... Prime Minister Blair is calling for a review of their slanted and often untruthful reporting... Doesn't the report of the memo from their head journalist embedded with British troops sent to head editors and govt officials slamming BBC's coverage of the WAR tell you something about your beloved BBC????

[igloo]

Originally posted by mr mahs

Why do we lend a helping hand to Isreal?? Simple it's the only democracy in the land and it was founded after the single most horifying genecide in human history and with out our help the 2nd holocaust would have happened already...

I to discredit your opinion because you rely on a slanted

anti-bush, anti-american news org as your source for information..

Here is a little story coming from A so-called mindless sheep..

When the WAR started I was vacationing in Miami and the only source of info was BBC news for cable and the N.Y Times as far as a newspaper. I got sick to mystomach and it partially ruined my vacation because according to these SLANTED reports we were losing the WAR from predictions of 2nd Vietnam to front page pictures of a supply convoy ambush that killed 9 of our guys BULLSHIT... Prime Minister Blair is calling for a review of their slanted and often untruthful reporting... Doesn't the report of the memo from their head journalist embedded with British troops sent to head editors and govt officials slamming BBC's coverage of the WAR tell you something about your beloved BBC????

:aright:

[sassa]

Originally posted by mr mahs

Why do we lend a helping hand to Isreal?? Simple it's the only democracy in the land and it was founded after the single most horifying genecide in human history and with out our help the 2nd holocaust would have happened already...

ah, jeez. where do i begin. there are many good reasons why the US is helping the israelis out, and that is based mainly on one reason: the jews have the US by the balls.

i am sick of hearing about how horrifying the holoucast of the 1940's was. stalin killed 6 times the amount of people hitler did, and there have been endless massacres in this century alone. look what happened to bosnia, or the tutsis of burundi. don't they count?

and exactly what second holoucast was prevented by the US's intervention? the only reason the US entered wwii was because they knew 24 hours before the japanese were going to attack pearl harbor, and allowed it to happen, even though they would be putting the lives of their own men at stake. gave them the perfect excuse to enter the war, which was what they were waiting for anyways. this was proven already,so please don't say this is bullshit. as for the democracy part, don't make me laugh. NOWHERE in our constitution or declaration of independence, bill of rights, or any substantial american document does it even HINT that democracy is the only way to go in terms of government. even socrates said democracy was one of the worst forms of government a people can adopt, and democracy was big in "ancient" athens....

democracy is NOT the best answer. but the american government seems intent to drill this bullshit idea into people's heads, leading them to believe this and support the government's endless crap about instilling a democracy in iraq and other countries....when does it end...

I to discredit your opinion because you rely on a slanted

anti-bush, anti-american news org as your source for information..

Here is a little story coming from A so-called mindless sheep..

When the WAR started I was vacationing in Miami and the only source of info was BBC news for cable and the N.Y Times as far as a newspaper. I got sick to mystomach and it partially ruined my vacation because according to these SLANTED reports we were losing the WAR from predictions of 2nd Vietnam to front page pictures of a supply convoy ambush that killed 9 of our guys BULLSHIT... Prime Minister Blair is calling for a review of their slanted and often untruthful reporting... Doesn't the report of the memo from their head journalist embedded with British troops sent to head editors and govt officials slamming BBC's coverage of the WAR tell you something about your beloved BBC????

sorry, but what does this have to do with anything. and who cares. your post is also biased, but i guess not many of us can escape having some sort of slant in our words.

another example of how israel has the US in its pocket: in 1967 there was an attack on an american ship in the mediterranean sea. it had a visible US flag and its name (USS Liberty) was showing clearly on its side. the israelis circled the ship a few times before they attacked. the ship was off the coast of gaza. over 25 people died. the next day, the israeli gov't apologized for the incident, claiming that they thought the ship was an enemy one. come on. how dumb do you have to be to really believe that. what the hell are these people doing if they can't be compitent enough to distinguish between an american and an enemy ship?

the ironic part about all this was that the US was the main side that tried its best to quell the incident down. the israelis didn't give a shit either way. they had done what they had set out to do.

the US's support of Israel is not leading it anywhere fruitful. if anything, its support of israel is harming the region's productivity. funny how israel is the 16th wealthiest state in the world, yet the economic, educational, health, and human rights issues in the region (middle east) are the second LOWEST in the world. how is this possible?

there are too many facts that are involved in this. but won't go further into detail. i'll just wait (hopefully) for a good response.

sassa

[mr mahs]

I happen to beplaying HOOKIE from work today and just saw this response. Unfortunatley the clubplanet URL has been firewalled at my job..

Now SASSA how exactley does Isreal have us by the ballz?? Your hatred influences your emotion on this subject. That incident in the 67 war was just proven accidental after a judge won a federal appeal against the Isreali government that forced the classified info of the transcripts by the Israeli army pilots that were involved in the mistaken attack to be released. Now I know you would never beleive that the docs were genuine so I won't harp any longer.... the level headed thinkers on this board won't draw conspiracy theories like some people (you)

Sassa you may not think so but the Holacaust is a big deal to some peole maybe not to ARABS who's hatred for the JEWS runs thousands of years, it's in the rotten fluid you have running through your hate filled soul.. This country has Christian beleives and can relate to some of the same hatred coming from the Arab world taht Isreal experiences. Lets face it Arab muslims don't want to make it a race war but that's what it's all about the daily cry for jihad are religous ordrs to fight Isreal and the fellow infidels or another words non-muslims..You said it your self the arab muslims recognize religon before geographic placement or map lines.. They hate the U.S for their support on Isreal and the reason for that support we lend is because of the hate caused by relgous differences between the Arabs andf jews.. I wonder if it were another diplaced ethnic group other then Jews that were given that little peice of land would the blood shed run for so long???

You pull this " other places are experiencing more killings" but get upset if we step in, just annoying and very hypocritical...

This country is contemplating sending U.S trops to try and keep the peace in Liberia what underlying conspiracy you have for that act of nobility?? Is their a massive pipeline under

Pres.Taylor's home that would quench our ever lasting thirst for oil?? You can draw any conclusion you want but it's this constant negativity that makes you sound biased we have diffrent opinions.

You should ask some of the-- ARAB LEADERS IN THE REGION WHY???the US's support of Israel is not leading it anywhere fruitful. if anything, its support of israel is harming the region's productivity. funny how israel is the 16th wealthiest state in the world, yet the economic, educational, health, and human rights issues in the region (middle east) are the second LOWEST in the world. how is this possible?

You should ask some of the Arab leadership that question...

[sassa]

you know, nothing you said made much sense nor did it really answer my post. instead of adding more bullshit to this thread, stick to the subject. your post carried nothing but empty words.

try again, mr mahs