dialectics Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 Sorry i just had to get that out of my system. The department of justice is so crooked i can't even begin to explain. Those motherfuckers pretended to be concerned with civil rights when they forced the most grossly invasive legislation on Americans since the communist witch hunts on a grieving country for their own self-service. and the best part is they included a clause which said they were in charge of investigating all civil rights claims arising from the abuse of the USA Patriot act... when it is the DoD itself that is in carge of perpetrating these atrocities. So, surprise surprise, of the 1000+ claims that were made, almost exclusively by immigrants (that's right, that includes US CITIZENS!!!!!) who were held without charge for up to 8 months, some beaten and some with property sized, only 34 claims were deemed "legitimate" enough to warrant an investigation.when will this nightmare of depravity and abuse end? i used to be proud to be an american - to uphold and protect the constitution and the bill of rights by any means necessary. now i'm ashamed to call this country home. you want to say you're making this country safer for many at the expense of the few? well i say whats stopping them from detaining you? absolutely nothing according to the USA Patriot act. i'm angry, not that the government is siezing power over its citizens - because all governments will try and do that - but because nobody seems to care. in this country we have a right to fight back.and guess what - the best part is that if you look at the cnn.com front page, there is no mention of this atrocity. insetad you get fluff pieces about jessica lynch. in fact, hit up the "US" page and there is still no mention of it. whatever man... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialectics Posted July 22 Author Report Share Posted July 22 dp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njangel Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 that doesnt surprise me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotoncandydream Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 comic relief for a repetitous subject Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trancerxn112 Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 welcome to the socialist democracy of the united states you act as if you are surprised that the government operates in such a way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialectics Posted July 22 Author Report Share Posted July 22 no, i'm surprised nobody cares.... which reminds me... your sig is the hottest thing i've ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njangel Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 Originally posted by dialectics no, i'm surprised nobody cares that shouldnt surprise you either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyepic18 Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 your right, its total and complete bullshit.the bill of rights doesn't mean shit today, and i dont see it getting better anytime soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trancerxn112 Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 Originally posted by dirtyepic18 your right, its total and complete bullshit.the bill of rights doesn't mean shit today, and i dont see it getting better anytime soon the bill of rights shouldnt mean shit... we are trying to run a country on a document that is older then electricity... does anyone else see something wrong with this picture... dont get me wrong the constitution is an amazing document which has been the back bone of our country, culture and the template for modern day law but we need something new... something updated to govern the modern day america. The America that is powered by computers, science, technology, and multinational corporations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizard23 Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 The problem with America today is that everybody is a whiny fucking asshole who thinks that they have the right to do and say whatever they want and when they don't get their way - it's the government's fault. The rules, laws, acts, etc. are way too leniant these days and if hippies keep pushing for reform, there's not going to be any sense of leadership at all in this country, just everybody doing what they want, when they want. It could be a lot worse, look at a lot of other countries around the world. Be glad that the gov't is trying to protect you from what happened on Sept. 11th by detaining immigrants until they are cleared for citizenship. And, since this information isn't on CNN - where did you obtain it from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyepic18 Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 Originally posted by lizard23 And, since this information isn't on CNN - where did you obtain it from? You do realize there is more than one news source in this country? we have newspapers to, you should check them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizard23 Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 Yes, I do, but he made it seem like the info was not published and/or available to the public, so I would like to know where he came up with it and if it's a factual article or an editorial piece (like most things criticizing the gov't and highlighting American "atrocities" are.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 Originally posted by lizard23 Yes, I do, but he made it seem like the info was not published and/or available to the public, so I would like to know where he came up with it and if it's a factual article or an editorial piece (like most things criticizing the gov't and highlighting American "atrocities" are.) i saw an article on this on www.go.com yesterday (its owned by ABC News)the Village Voice has also been running a series of articles on this subject for the past year and a half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyepic18 Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 Originally posted by trancerxn112 the bill of rights shouldnt mean shit... we are trying to run a country on a document that is older then electricity... does anyone else see something wrong with this picture... dont get me wrong the constitution is an amazing document which has been the back bone of our country, culture and the template for modern day law but we need something new... something updated to govern the modern day america. The America that is powered by computers, science, technology, and multinational corporations No offence, but this is one of the most misinformed and ignorant opinions i've ever heard. I'm not even sure you know what rights are guarenteed by the bill of rights. Our country (and world) is radically different today than it was in 1776, but that really has no bearing on the principles our country was founded on. Why should the fact that america is run by "computers, science, technology, and multinational corporations" negate our right to free speech (the 1st amendment). The same free speech that lets you participate in the ClubPlanet forums, especially when "clubbing" is not held in very high esteem by our government. The 2nd Amendment, "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures" is a fairly outdated concept also. I think it would be alot more ideal to live in a police state, where cops have the complete power to search and take anything of yours that they would like. I mean, todays cops are well trained, and we know they wouldnt abuse this power.Your right, in todays world, one shouldn't really be entitled to a fair trial by a jury of his or her peers, our 6th amendment right. I mean, that idea is so old it simply has no basis in todays society. We would be alot better off by simply letting the government punish people for whatever they see fit.And your right, since modern day america is powered by business and technology, the cruel and unusual punishment that the 8th amendment guarentees against, really shouldn't apply anymore. Because by your argument, since our countries focus today is business, your single life shouldn't really mean shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trancerxn112 Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 Originally posted by dirtyepic18 No offence, but this is one of the most misinformed and ignorant opinions i've ever heard. I'm not even sure you know what rights are guarenteed by the bill of rights. Our country (and world) is radically different today than it was in 1776, but that really has no bearing on the principles our country was founded on. Why should the fact that america is run by "computers, science, technology, and multinational corporations" negate our right to free speech (the 1st amendment). The same free speech that lets you participate in the ClubPlanet forums, especially when "clubbing" is not held in very high esteem by our government. The 2nd Amendment, "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures" is a fairly outdated concept also. I think it would be alot more ideal to live in a police state, where cops have the complete power to search and take anything of yours that they would like. I mean, todays cops are well trained, and we know they wouldnt abuse this power.Your right, in todays world, one shouldn't really be entitled to a fair trial by a jury of his or her peers, our 6th amendment right. I mean, that idea is so old it simply has no basis in todays society. We would be alot better off by simply letting the government punish people for whatever they see fit.And your right, since modern day america is powered by business and technology, the cruel and unusual punishment that the 8th amendment guarentees against, really shouldn't apply anymore. Because by your argument, since our countries focus today is business, your single life shouldn't really mean shit. okay, first off if you read what i wrote in my reply it actually said that they are a GREAT TEMPLATE for modern law and that they need to be updated to reflect todays society. You twisted the words to reflect something you wanted them to say when in actuality thats not what it says it all. Secondly, i trust in the fact that you are quite the authority on the bill of rights but theres also something called interpretational law in which the words used in the bill of rights and ultimately the constitution are sculpted to reflect the beliefs of those who are interpreting it. Therefore the wording of the constitution is constantly being changed and molded to rewrite modern day laws... what i suggested was that the language shold be modernized to remove any seeds of doubt and misinterpretation in the meaning of those words and to more greatly express the INTENTION of the constitution and not what the words can be contrued to mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyepic18 Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 Originally posted by trancerxn112 okay, first off if you read what i wrote in my reply it actually said that they are a GREAT TEMPLATE for modern law and that they need to be updated to reflect todays society. You twisted the words to reflect something you wanted them to say when in actuality thats not what it says it all. Secondly, i trust in the fact that you are quite the authority on the bill of rights but theres also something called interpretational law in which the words used in the bill of rights and ultimately the constitution are sculpted to reflect the beliefs of those who are interpreting it. Therefore the wording of the constitution is constantly being changed and molded to rewrite modern day laws... i actually did read your post numerous times, because i kept expecting i was reading it wrong. if you were simply trying to say it needs to be updated, then "the bill of rights shouldnt mean shit... we are trying to run a country on a document that is older then electricity... " is fairly strong language, and indeed quite counter productive to your intended message.regardless, i dont really think the bill of rights needs to be updated... the only amendment which really didnt stand the test of time was the third amendment (which guarentees against the quartering of soldiers in your home). Originally posted by trancerxn112 what i suggested was that the language shold be modernized to remove any seeds of doubt and misinterpretation in the meaning of those words and to more greatly express the INTENTION of the constitution and not what the words can be contrued to mean. your right, of course clarifying the intention of the constitution in todays world would be a great thing, however its easier said than done. As soon as you start trying to change its language to clarify its modern meanings, you'll simply open the door to an endless debate on what exactly the amendments guarentee (and what they dont). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trancerxn112 Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 Originally posted by dirtyepic18 i actually did read your post numerous times, because i kept expecting i was reading it wrong. if you were simply trying to say it needs to be updated, then "the bill of rights shouldnt mean shit... we are trying to run a country on a document that is older then electricity... " is fairly strong language, and indeed quite counter productive to your intended message.regardless, i dont really think the bill of rights needs to be updated... the only amendment which really didnt stand the test of time was the third amendment (which guarentees against the quartering of soldiers in your home). your right, of course clarifying the intention of the constitution in todays world would be a great thing, however its easier said than done. As soon as you start trying to change its language to clarify its modern meanings, you'll simply open the door to an endless debate on what exactly the amendments guarentee (and what they dont). and i agree with you on this matter 100% im just giving my 2 cents on the debate. If ever something like this should arise you know where i stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyepic18 Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 Originally posted by trancerxn112 and i agree with you on this matter 100% im just giving my 2 cents on the debate. If ever something like this should arise you know where i stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trancerxn112 Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 Originally posted by dirtyepic18 its nice to share a debate with a controlled individual instead of someone using a false dichotomy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyepic18 Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 Originally posted by trancerxn112 its nice to share a debate with a controlled individual instead of someone using a false dichotomy. true, getting too pissed off in a debate will hurt your argument everytime. very nice job of clarifying yourself after your first post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trancerxn112 Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 Originally posted by dirtyepic18 true, getting too pissed off in a debate will hurt your argument everytime. very nice job of clarifying yourself after your first post. besides remaining calm has advantages because it can seriously unnerve ur competition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyepic18 Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 Originally posted by trancerxn112 besides remaining calm has advantages because it can seriously unnerve ur competition exactly. there's a science to successful debate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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