Israeli Soldier Kills Palestinian Boy, Injures Sisters

[dnice35]

Originally posted by raver_mania

I think the Christians should have control of it.

Or even better, a neutral 3rd party....hmmm...Mormons?

it dont matter, just as long as those muslim monkeys dont control it.....

[tribal]

Dude, I try to read your posts but they are so waaay off base its not funny. I'm sorry, but your views are anything but unbiased. Are you telling me that the IDF has done absolutely NO wrong to the Palestinians...that there have NOT been any incidents of brutality, or excessive force, or racism amongst its soldiers.

If your answer to this is "NO, They haven't", then please don't bother answering my post.

Regarding your site" Department of World Zionism"...yeah a very unbiased site, right!

i dont know how old you are, but assuming you are over 18, you should know that nothing in this life is black and white. neither is the case with this conflict. remind me where i state 'israel=good, palestinians=bad'. i have assumed (however wrongly) that people here would understand that this conflict is very complicated and never one-sided, and both viewpoints exist.

this board is very juvenile in terms of name calling, false accusations and other such rueful talk. please refrain from these commiseries.

the case with jenin battle is simply not the case that was posted. a D-9 bulldozer did not go on a rampage with a drunk operator. this story is a blatant fabrication, which unfortunately has been taken as a token of truth. ive been to the area and talked to the soldiers who have participated in Defensive Shield. the Jenin case was simply not what was presented to you. before you believe a story, research the facts and the sources. otherwise you are digesting gossip and rumours.

[kramadas]

Originally posted by tribal

Dude, I try to read your posts but they are so waaay off base its not funny. I'm sorry, but your views are anything but unbiased. Are you telling me that the IDF has done absolutely NO wrong to the Palestinians...that there have NOT been any incidents of brutality, or excessive force, or racism amongst its soldiers.

If your answer to this is "NO, They haven't", then please don't bother answering my post.

Regarding your site" Department of World Zionism"...yeah a very unbiased site, right!

i dont know how old you are, but assuming you are over 18, you should know that nothing in this life is black and white. neither is the case with this conflict. remind me where i state 'israel=good, palestinians=bad'. i have assumed (however wrongly) that people here would understand that this conflict is very complicated and never one-sided, and both viewpoints exist.

this board is very juvenile in terms of name calling, false accusations and other such rueful talk. please refrain from these commiseries.

the case with jenin battle is simply not the case that was posted. a D-9 bulldozer did not go on a rampage with a drunk operator. this story is a blatant fabrication, which unfortunately has been taken as a token of truth. ive been to the area and talked to the soldiers who have participated in Defensive Shield. the Jenin case was simply not what was presented to you. before you believe a story, research the facts and the sources. otherwise you are digesting gossip and rumours.

First of all, there was no name-calling in my post. It started with yours.

Second of all, I've read your politically motivated posts on both Naughtybooth and here, and not once(not ONCE) have you ever said Israel was at fault for anything (though there have been numerous articles where this has been the case). YOu have always found some hair-brained argument to try support the actions of the Israeli govt, or IDF.

If you agree that this is a complicated situation, then will you agree it is the fault of BOTH the Palestinians AND ISraelis, and that both sides have committed atrocities. I just want to hear you say that, if you truly want to try pass yourself off as unbiased.

[acmatos]

Originally posted by sassa

look. you have a point. but you must realize that there is a reason also why there is a huge imbalance in the number of deaths on either side. i believe around 821 israelis have been killed in the past 31 months, and over 2200 palestinians. doesn't that sound off warning bells in your mind? also, why is it so hard to believe IDF soldiers do not kill people intentionally? it has happened before and it will happen again, with the US's indirect blessing, nonetheless.

please. every time an israeli dies it is blown up all over the media here, but when a palestinian dies, it hardly gets recognition. and there's supposed to be no bias in the media? BULLSHIT.

This is totally untrue. I see just as many reports about palestinian deaths as i do israelis.

Also part of the reason for needless palestinian deaths is that those chicken shit terrorists purposely hide in places full of civilians. (women and children?even better) The israelis IMO are doing about as good a job as they can given the circumstances. Everyone bitches and complains that israelis kill innocent people, but what about the scumbags that put them in harm's way to begin with?

[kramadas]

Originally posted by acmatos

The israelis IMO are doing about as good a job as they can given the circumstances.

Do a google search on IDF brutality. If you really think that these guys aren't at fault as well, then you are very misguided. Also, read some of the other articles I've posted.

How many articles have you read in the newspapers here on Israeli settler violence? Do you even know that such a thing exists?

It definitely takes two to tango!

[acmatos]

Originally posted by sassa

:laugh: then how is it than in countries like tunisia, lebanon, jordan, and egypt, there are scores of faiths, and they are not hidden??? puhleez. you're so biased it's not even funny

When was the last time you visited those places?? There are definately not scores of faiths in those countries. Jordan, which is one of the most westernized countries in that region still is about 90% muslim.

[acmatos]

Originally posted by raver_mania

Do a google search on IDF brutality. If you really think that these guys aren't at fault as well, then you are very misguided. Also, read some of the other articles I've posted.

How many articles have you read in the newspapers here on Israeli settler violence? Do you even know that such a thing exists?

It definitely takes two to tango!

true, i'm not saying that israeli's are totally good at all (IMO the intolerance of both sides and their faiths is the key)

But I will say that palestinian behavior is definately more conducive to innocent deaths.

I grew up in DC and its not surprising that you have such biased information around. I actually used to be totally pro-palestinian until i moved away and was able to get a new perspective.

[bigpoppanils]

Originally posted by dnice35

it dont matter, just as long as those muslim monkeys dont control it.....

christains have a similar record as Muslims do when it comes to Jerusalem

[djxeno]

Jerusalem should be an international city because it is sacred to Jews, Christians and Muslims.

[djxeno]

Jerusalem should be an international city because it is sacred to Jews, Christians and Muslims.

And oh yeah, one more thing, the gate to heaven will be over Jerusalem on the day of judgement.

[sassa]

Originally posted by acmatos

When was the last time you visited those places?? There are definately not scores of faiths in those countries. Jordan, which is one of the most westernized countries in that region still is about 90% muslim.

in the past 5 years.

so what if it's 90% muslim. the christians of the country do not hide in fear of the hashemites. or muslims. that's my point.

[acmatos]

Originally posted by sassa

in the past 5 years.

so what if it's 90% muslim. the christians of the country do not hide in fear of the hashemites. or muslims. that's my point.

yeah, last time i was there i think I saw all five of them running around the streets with bibles

[sassa]

Originally posted by acmatos

yeah, last time i was there i think I saw all five of them running around the streets with bibles

in jordan?

there are of course different religions in the middle east. they all originate from this region...so it's of course possible. with the exception of maybe christianity as we know it today, which was an invention of the roman empire. sure it's based on jesus and his teachings, but even jesus said there was no need for a middle man or a church to worship God. and the catholic church exploits people's ignorance and milks them for all they're worth. poor people think they're being salvaged from wrong. but that's just my opinion.

[acmatos]

Originally posted by sassa

in jordan?

there are of course different religions in the middle east. they all originate from this region...so it's of course possible. with the exception of maybe christianity as we know it today, which was an invention of the roman empire. sure it's based on jesus and his teachings, but even jesus said there was no need for a middle man or a church to worship God. and the catholic church exploits people's ignorance and milks them for all they're worth. poor people think they're being salvaged from wrong. but that's just my opinion.

yeah in Jordan, iwas there in 98. But i was just being sarcastic anyway. I think the church was started b4 the roman empire but i agree that it is not what Jesus intended. But... people are simple. Do you think that most people would worship unless they had an organized palce to do it?

[sassa]

Originally posted by acmatos

yeah in Jordan, iwas there in 98. But i was just being sarcastic anyway. I think the church was started b4 the roman empire but i agree that it is not what Jesus intended. But... people are simple. Do you think that most people would worship unless they had an organized palce to do it?

depends. since you said "most" people, i'd have to say no. but the church is nothing more than a business.

some facts about the catholic church:

1. in medieval times, the church would take the life savings of people and guarantee them places in heaven. how can a mortal man guarantee someone else a place up there? they are not God.

2. i love how the church hides the fact that several of its popes were closet gays and bisexuals during the medieval times also. i forgot his name, starts with a B, but one pope was known for having sex constantly with groups of people, boys, you name it. yet, today you see many groups trying to allow gay bishops to be leaders of the church. how the hell are you going to say you practice and follow a faith that condones your sexual orientation? i love how they can be so hypocritical and yet people cannot realize what is plainly in their faces. if the bible says it's wrong, how are you going to allow it to happen under your nose? that's the proble,m, they are altering the religion how they see fit. if it truly was a religion from God, this would not happen. hence why i have respect for islam, it hasn't been altered since it was given to PBUH Muhammad.

3. i can't respect a religion that has so many offshoots. might as well disregard the ties it has to the original catholic christianity. baptists, episcopolians, methodists, presbyterian, bla bla bla... not trying to offend anyone, but what's the point of the true message then if anyone can believe anything else that suits them? that might be the essence of a religion, but it's not what jesus taught, so again, hypocracy is involved here.

anyways, to end my christian bashing, i was also in jordan in 1998. mainly around amman and jerash. what were you doing there?

[sassa]

also, keep in mind that the church, and christianity itself, was started a century or so after jesus and his brother were killed. rome sent peter, a roman general, to the area to collect his writings. he then took them back to rome, where the vatican was created soon after. he is known as "st. peter" saint, my azzz....

i also hate how churches depict jesus as fair skinned, blue eyed, and blondish. if he was really from the galilee region, he would be as dark as coal, realistically speaking. that shows another falsification the church indulges in shamelessly. people have fucked with it too much.

also, why the hell should i have to go to a priest to "confess my sins" ??? he is human, just like me. he makes mistakes, just like me. why should i need a middle man to get to God? if i am truly God's child/daughter, won't he hear me like he hears the pope or ardinal? why is jesus the only Son of God? that also is another bullshit fabrication. we are ALL the children of God, if we are all human beings. so why should Jesus be the only one entitled to that honor? it just doesn't add up, logically speaking.

[kramadas]

I don't believe in a religion that differentiates us from God. I can't believe in any religion (whether it be Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc) that says "God looks over us". Too simplisitic in my opinion. Also, don't believe in God "punishing and rewarding" us.

This might have been made up to control the common lay man, but then, by that very act, the religion is altered.

I kind of made up my own religion, but if I had to say what its closest to, then it has to be Buddhism (at least the philosophical aspects of it, not the common, day-to-day, do this, do that stuff).

At the risk of offending people, I'm going to say this - I think religion was invented as a cradle for humanity..people could not/cannot bear the idea of being alone in this universe, or being part of a natural energy that does not give a damn about individual beings. Hell, my version of God does not even have consciousness as we define it.

[acmatos]

Originally posted by sassa

depends. since you said "most" people, i'd have to say no. but the church is nothing more than a business.

some facts about the catholic church:

1. in medieval times, the church would take the life savings of people and guarantee them places in heaven. how can a mortal man guarantee someone else a place up there? they are not God.

2. i love how the church hides the fact that several of its popes were closet gays and bisexuals during the medieval times also. i forgot his name, starts with a B, but one pope was known for having sex constantly with groups of people, boys, you name it. yet, today you see many groups trying to allow gay bishops to be leaders of the church. how the hell are you going to say you practice and follow a faith that condones your sexual orientation? i love how they can be so hypocritical and yet people cannot realize what is plainly in their faces. if the bible says it's wrong, how are you going to allow it to happen under your nose? that's the proble,m, they are altering the religion how they see fit. if it truly was a religion from God, this would not happen. hence why i have respect for islam, it hasn't been altered since it was given to PBUH Muhammad.

3. i can't respect a religion that has so many offshoots. might as well disregard the ties it has to the original catholic christianity. baptists, episcopolians, methodists, presbyterian, bla bla bla... not trying to offend anyone, but what's the point of the true message then if anyone can believe anything else that suits them? that might be the essence of a religion, but it's not what jesus taught, so again, hypocracy is involved here.

anyways, to end my christian bashing, i was also in jordan in 1998. mainly around amman and jerash. what were you doing there?

I share most of these same frustrations about the church, which is why i always separate the church as an institution from the religion itself. The church institution was created by man and is run by man, and as we all know, man is flawed. I think that this can account to some extent for all of the offshoots. I think that man getting involved is convoluting the message which is in turn responsible for so many different versions. I don't think it has to do with hipocracy though.

The religion, I feel is still a good thing. I am catholic, but hardly a good or practicing one(according to church). However, I feel that as long as we try to be as honest and decent as we can we will be allright. Also the confession deal IMO is just useless. Like you said, why do i need someone to relay information between me and God? It's absurd. But i would also argue that the religion itself has not changed as much as you think. The same/original Gospels are read at catholic services all over the world. They have not been rewritten.

Regarding the homosexuality issue within the church, I agree. It should not be tolerated by any means and am disappointed that the church has not dealt with it decisively. But to me this is an American problem. The fact stands that in the 60's, at the beginning of the gay movement, many homosexuals became a part of the church. Now these same people are the ones who have the power to hide and manipulate this problem(hence priests being moved from one place to another instead of removed)They are even bringing more homosexuals into the church intentionally. But to put it in a bit of perspective, the Catholics in the US account for about 6% of the faith worldwide. Within that, it is estimated that homosexuals make up 5-8% of the US church.

You can do the math. I am not saying that this should not be taken seriously, because IMO one case of sexual abuse is too many.

At the same time I think it is unfair to bash an entire religion because of a few deviants. That would be like bashing all of Islam because of the acts of the Islamic terrorists. The vast, vast majority of people that have gone through the catholic system, whether it be educational or religious, have had positive experiences.

I was in Jordan visiting a friend of mine(we graduated together from High School). We spent most of the time in Amman, but also drove down to his place in Aqaba for a few days, stopping in Petra on the way. It's a remarakable place.

How about you?

[sassa]

i have family and friends in jordan.

if you like to read, check out these books. they discuss the origins of the catholic church and modern day christianity:

the dead sea scrolls

the hiram key

the second messiah

(last two books written by christopher knight and robert e. loomis)

the last two books deal mainly with freemasonry, but touch upon this issue as well.