Israeli Soldier Kills Palestinian Boy, Injures Sisters

[djxeno]

Israeli Soldier Kills Palestinian Boy, Injures Sisters

Friday, July 25 2003 @ 06:24 PM GMT

"The youngster, named as Mahmud Qabha, died after an Israeli soldier fired a hail of bullets into his grandfather's car, officials and witnesses said .."

Additional reporting by Mustafa al Sawwaf

BARTAA, West Bank - While Palestinian Premier Mahmoud Abbas was in Washington to discuss peace with U.S. President George Bush, an Israeli soldier gunned down Friday, July 25, a 4-year-old Palestinian and injured his two sisters when he fired 16 bullets at a car they were boarding near the West Bank village of Bartaa, in an the Israeli army described as an "accident."

The youngster, named as Mahmud Qabha, died after an Israeli soldier fired a hail of bullets into his grandfather's car, officials and witnesses said.

His two sisters, aged six and seven, were also wounded in the shooting, which the Israeli army claimed was an "accidental" discharge of a machine-gun manned by a soldier who was on top of an armored vehicle, Agence France-Presse (AFP) said.

"We express our regrets and an inquiry has been launched," an Israeli army told AFP.

The boy's grandfather told AFP that he had parked his Mitsubishi jeep some 200 meters (yards) away from an Israeli tank when shots rang out without warning.

"Immediately the tank shot without any warning. The bullets cut through the head of my grandchild," Mustafa Atatra cried out.

"About 16 bullets went into the car. My wife was also wounded in the leg."

‘Pool Of Blood’

A pool of blood could be seen on the seat and floor of the blue and gray-colored jeep which was still parked at the scene of the shooting. Its windows had been shattered.

As news filtered through to locals, scores gathered at the scene to protest the Israeli crime.

Some angrily accused Israeli soldiers of killing children while others attempted to rush at the soldiers but were held back.

The atmosphere in the area has been soured by Israel 's construction of a separation concrete wall between the West Bank and Israel .

Abbas was expected to call Bush to press Israeli into removing checkpoints in the occupied West Bank and halting the building of the separation wall.

An Israeli border guard on Thursday, July 24, shot and killed a Bedouin claiming he was carrying illegal Palestinian workers in his vehicle in southern Israel .

After the shooting of the Bedouin, identified as 23-year-old Mohammed Bau al-Jihan, dozens of his tribe threw stones at the Israeli police near the scene of the shooting in Negev , injuring one.

‘Incursion’

In a continuation of its aggressions, one Palestinian was wounded in a shooting as the Israeli army carried out an incursion into the West Bank town of Jenin overnight, a Palestinian security source said Friday.

Israeli forces opened fire after entering the town in jeeps and armored vehicles to detain what they called "suspected militants", the source added.

An Israeli military spokesman claimed a patrol had been "met with a rocket attack in Jenin and responded".

The Israeli army also announced that 10 Palestinians had been detained during the night, under the pretext of "being involved in anti-Israeli attacks".

There has been a marked drop in unrest since the announcement of a truce by major Palestinian resistance groups on June 29 but small-scale violence has continued.

Al-Aqsa

In occupied Jerusalem , Israeli police restricted access for Al-Haram al-Sharif, fearing protests by Palestinians against a decision to allow visits by Jews and foreign tourists to the holy shrine.

Israeli police have banned Palestinian men under the age of 40 from performing their prayers inside Al-Haram Al-Sharif.

Around a hundred Israeli policemen have also been deployed around the Muslim quarter in the walled old city of Jerusalem where the compound is located, according to sources.

Palestinian officials on Thursday, at a meeting attended by President Yasser Arafat, denounced the visits to the site which have been taking place under Israeli police protection for more than a month.

The meeting, which included representatives from a raft of Palestinian organizations, had "discussed the serious situation in Jerusalem ... especially the concerns over the Al-Aqsa mosque," said one official source.

A statement issued after the meeting said "the permission given by the Israeli forces for extremists and settlers to enter Al-Aqsa mosque is particularly dangerous."

Arafat urged Arabs and Muslims to prevent "the danger of Israeli incursions into the Al-Aqsa mosque", the statement added.

Israel 's minister for internal security Tzahi Hanegbi confirmed he had decided to continue to authorize organized visits to the holy site.

"Some Jews and other non-Muslims can have the opportunity to visit the compound but at this stage it is not a question of allowing them to pray in public," he told Israeli military radio.

Hanegbi said that he was merely restoring the status quo that existed before the outbreak of Al-Aqsa Intifida which erupted against Israeli occupation 33 months ago following a controversial visit to the site by then opposition leader Ariel Sharon.

Several ultra-nationalist Israeli groups have been consistently lobbying for the right of Jews to pray at the site.

But Uri Lupolianski, the first ever ultra-orthodox mayor of occupied Jerusalem , has denounced the resumption of visits by non-Muslims to the site as a provocation.

Permission for the visits came from Sharon, Hanegbi and the police.

‘Assassination’

Meanwhile, Palestinian military intelligence chief General Moussa Arafat said Friday that he was the target of an assassination attempt by a rocket attack on his headquarters that wounded 13 people.

"This was an assassination attempt on the life of General Moussa Arafat," a statement released by his office said condemning the Thursday attack.

Palestinian medical sources told IslamOnline.net that ten Palestinians, including seven prisoners and three servicemen, were wounded in the blast caused by a rocket-propelled grenade (RPG).

Although the RPG caused minor damage to the military intelligence building, where Gen. Moussa's office is located, a nearby prison, also inside the compound, sustained the brunt of the damage.

Palestinian Authority sources said Gen. Arafat’s relation with other security bodies has deteriorated after the appointment of Mohamed Dahlan as Palestinian state minister for security affairs.

Pullout

Sharon's office announced Friday that Israel will take a series of measures to advance the peace process, including handing two cities in the West Bank to Palestinian control and paving the way for the release of hundreds of Palestinian prisoners.

" Israel will transfer security responsibility for two additional cities in Judea and Samaria ( West Bank )," said the statement.

"The decision as to which cities, the nature of the security responsibility and the transfer timing will be made at a meeting to be held at the beginning of next week between Defense Minister (Shaul) Mofaz and Mohammed Dahlan."

"Several Dozen"

The statement added that a ministerial committee, which had already approved the release of several hundred Palestinians, would "reconvene at the beginning of August in order to discuss changes in the criteria so as to facilitate the release of hundreds of additional prisoners."

Israeli security services have recommended that an additional 250 Palestinians be freed from Israeli jails, including members of resistance groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad, the Haaretz daily reported Friday.

The names have been added to an initial list of some 350 prisoners and include "several dozen" Hamas and Islamic Jihad members, the paper said quoting sources who have seen the revised list.

The Israeli ministerial commission decided earlier this week to rubberstamp the release of the 350 prisoners who were classified as "administrative detainees" but deferred a decision on other names which had been added to the list.

No Hamas or Islamic Jihad members were on the original list.

[sassa]

injustice against the innocent never ends, does it.

[djxeno]

Never.

[seximofo2k]

Israeli soldiers, despite what your liberal thinktank wants to believe, they do not target women and children. their is no benefit that comes to them from killing civilians its a PR disaster and a causes total outrage from the Palestinians and the rest of the world. I ask you this do you show the same anger and interest when a Palestinian runs into a market and intentionally blows up 23 civilians? How about posting up one of those articles................

[djxeno]

Originally posted by seximofo2k

Israeli soldiers, despite what your liberal thinktank wants to believe, they do not target women and children. their is no benefit that comes to them from killing civilians its a PR disaster and a causes total outrage from the Palestinians and the rest of the world. I ask you this do you show the same anger and interest when a Palestinian runs into a market and intentionally blows up 23 civilians? How about posting up one of those articles................

I don't need to post those articles because you can find out that info by turning on your TV.

IF you don't believe that the IDF targets civilians, you should pick up the following book:

Isreal/Palestine

how to end the war of 1948

by Tanya Reinhart

There is a passage in this book where a Isreali bulldozer operator gives his account of the massacre in Jenin(a few months after 9.11). I will have to transcribe some of it. He talks about how he just got drunk and aimed his bulldozer at anything moving for like 3 days straight. Then afterwards when the U.N. was going to investigate Sharon for "war crimes" Bush vetoed it. And as a permenant member of the Security Council he had the power to do that.

here is part of it:

For 3 days, I just destroyed and destroyed. The whole area. Any house that they fired from came down. And to knock it down, i tore down some more. They were warned by loud speaker to get out of the house before i come, but i gave no one a chance. i didn't wait. i didn't give one blow, and wait for them to come out. I would just ram the house with full power, to bring it down as fast as possible. I wanted to get to the other houses. To get as many as possible...Others restrained themselves, or so they say. Who are they kidding?...I didn't give a damn about the Palenstinians, but i didn't just ruin without reason. It was all under orders.

Many people were inside houses we started to demolish. They would come out of the houses we were working on. I didn't see with my own eyes, people dieing under the D9(bulldozer) blades. And i didnt see housees falling down on live people. But if there were any i didnt care. ...

I found joy with every house that came down, because i knew they (Palestinians) didnt mind dying, but they cared for their homes. If you knocked down a house, you buried 40-50 people for generations. If i am sorry for anything, it is not for tearing the whole camp down.

[seximofo2k]

It's a shame that things like this occur on either side. I am wrong in saying things like this never happen but what i do have a problem with is the villainization of every Israeli soldier as doing nothing but killing women and children as you would like them to be painted. I am not justifying nor saying that one side is more right than the other but what i do have a problem with is the attempt by people to compare Israeli soldiers to groups like Hamas.

And dont use the tv as an excuse for your lack of concern against terrorist attacks on Israel.

[djxeno]

Originally posted by seximofo2k

It's a shame that things like this occur on either side. I am wrong in saying things like this never happen but what i do have a problem with is the villainization of every Israeli soldier as doing nothing but killing women and children as you would like them to be painted. I am not justifying nor saying that one side is more right than the other but what i do have a problem with is the attempt by people to compare Israeli soldiers to groups like Hamas.

And dont use the tv as an excuse for your lack of concern against terrorist attacks on Israel.

Just because I post about the Palestinians doesn't mean I don't care about innocent Israeli's being hurt, nor did I ever villianize every Israeli soldier.

What I am saying is that both sides commit terrorism, including Israeli soldiers. I choose to voice that side of the story because you will never hear it or see it because of our biased media.

Now let me leave you with a quote from Ariel Sharon:

"I don't know something called International Principles. I vow that I'll burn every Palestinian Child will be born in this area. The Palestinian Woman and Child is more dangerous than the Man, Because the Palestinian Child existence refers that Generations will go on, but the man causes limited danger. I vow that if I was just an Israeli Civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him. With One hit I've killed 750 Palestinians ( in Rafah, 1956). I wanted to encourage my soldiers by raping Arabic Girls as The Palestinian Woman is a slave for Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and Nobody tells us what we shall do but we tell others what they shall do." - Ariel Sharon, In an interview with General Ouze Merham, 1956

Peace,

-XeNo-

[sassa]

Originally posted by seximofo2k

It's a shame that things like this occur on either side. I am wrong in saying things like this never happen but what i do have a problem with is the villainization of every Israeli soldier as doing nothing but killing women and children as you would like them to be painted. I am not justifying nor saying that one side is more right than the other but what i do have a problem with is the attempt by people to compare Israeli soldiers to groups like Hamas.

And dont use the tv as an excuse for your lack of concern against terrorist attacks on Israel.

look. you have a point. but you must realize that there is a reason also why there is a huge imbalance in the number of deaths on either side. i believe around 821 israelis have been killed in the past 31 months, and over 2200 palestinians. doesn't that sound off warning bells in your mind? also, why is it so hard to believe IDF soldiers do not kill people intentionally? it has happened before and it will happen again, with the US's indirect blessing, nonetheless.

please. every time an israeli dies it is blown up all over the media here, but when a palestinian dies, it hardly gets recognition. and there's supposed to be no bias in the media? BULLSHIT.

[seximofo2k]

You guys are missing my point completly i probably didnt explain it well then. What I have a problem with is the comparison between Israeli soldiers being the same as a group like Hamas who's goal is to kill as many civilians as they can. Yes their are israeli soldiers that commit these crimes and its a shame if they dont get punished but despite this the goal of the Israeli army is not simply to go into Palestine and kill women and children and its a shame if you believe that.

The whole situation is so complicated i really dont see a solution u have a growing Israeli population spreading into palestinian land on one hand and on the other you have a PLO leadership under Arafat who still considers the capital of Palestine as Jerusalem.......

[djxeno]

Originally posted by seximofo2k

You guys are missing my point completly i probably didnt explain it well then. What I have a problem with is the comparison between Israeli soldiers being the same as a group like Hamas who's goal is to kill as many civilians as they can. Yes their are israeli soldiers that commit these crimes and its a shame if they dont get punished but despite this the goal of the Israeli army is not simply to go into Palestine and kill women and children and its a shame if you believe that.

The whole situation is so complicated i really dont see a solution u have a growing Israeli population spreading into palestinian land on one hand and on the other you have a PLO leadership under Arafat who still considers the capital of Palestine as Jerusalem.......

Did you not read the quote by Sharon? the IDF is a terrorist organization just like Hamas.

As far as Jerusalem, I believe it should be an International City, because it is sacred to Jews, Christians and Muslims. But the Jews aren't having that, they want it all to themselves.

[magellanmax]

Originally posted by djxeno

Did you not read the quote by Sharon? the IDF is a terrorist organization just like Hamas.

As far as Jerusalem, I believe it should be an International City, because it is sacred to Jews, Christians and Muslims. But the Jews aren't having that, they want it all to themselves.

Well said.

Something that has been lost in the mayhem and violence is the fact that, the Palestinians do NOT have a standing army...but Israel does. The so-called terrorists organizations are technically civilians fighting an army and civilians. True, sometimes their decisions are crude, but they have an objective to achieve autonomy without being screwed up the wazoo.

Somebody put it best: "One mans' terrorist is another mans freedom fighter"...take your pick.

If the US actually put in half the effort to achieve 'peace' ...like the campaign right now in Iraq, the middle-east would have been paradise decades ago. Just my take.... It seems to be an endless vicious cycle with no end in sight unless concessions are made,...especially on Israels side...since they are an occupying nation.

Just my take on the subject

[djxeno]

Originally posted by magellanmax

Well said.

Something that has been lost in the mayhem and violence is the fact that, the Palestinians do NOT have a standing army...but Israel does. The so-called terrorists organizations are technically civilians fighting an army and civilians. True, sometimes their decisions are crude, but they have an objective to achieve autonomy without being screwed up the wazoo.

Somebody put it best: "One mans' terrorist is another mans freedom fighter"...take your pick.

If the US actually put in half the effort to achieve 'peace' ...like the campaign right now in Iraq, the middle-east would have been paradise decades ago. Just my take.... It seems to be an endless vicious cycle with no end in sight unless concessions are made,...especially on Israels side...since they are an occupying nation.

Just my take on the subject

[seximofo2k]

Originally posted by magellanmax

Well said.

Something that has been lost in the mayhem and violence is the fact that, the Palestinians do NOT have a standing army...but Israel does. The so-called terrorists organizations are technically civilians fighting an army and civilians. True, sometimes their decisions are crude, but they have an objective to achieve autonomy without being screwed up the wazoo.

Somebody put it best: "One mans' terrorist is another mans freedom fighter"...take your pick.

If the US actually put in half the effort to achieve 'peace' ...like the campaign right now in Iraq, the middle-east would have been paradise decades ago. Just my take.... It seems to be an endless vicious cycle with no end in sight unless concessions are made,...especially on Israels side...since they are an occupying nation.

Just my take on the subject

This mentality temps me to swing right in my political views sometimes...

The ''so-called'' terrorists organizations are terrorist organizations period. Tell me how have these terrorists benefited the Palestinian people in any way? If anything they clout the legitimate argument the palestinians have in their struggles with Israel.

You say Israel especially needs to make the concessions to end the vicious cycle. People forget the reason that Israel occupies the land it does right now. After 25 years of 250 million of your neighbors trying to annihilate you they kept the lands they seized after the six day war. I agree they should give back these lands but I also understand their reluctance to give back these lands so quickly when you are surrounded by all hostile neighbors.

[sassa]

Originally posted by seximofo2k

This mentality temps me to swing right in my political views sometimes...

The ''so-called'' terrorists organizations are terrorist organizations period. Tell me how have these terrorists benefited the Palestinian people in any way? If anything they clout the legitimate argument the palestinians have in their struggles with Israel.

You say Israel especially needs to make the concessions to end the vicious cycle. People forget the reason that Israel occupies the land it does right now. After 25 years of 250 million of your neighbors trying to annihilate you they kept the lands they seized after the six day war. I agree they should give back these lands but I also understand their reluctance to give back these lands so quickly when you are surrounded by all hostile neighbors.

little wonder they are hostile. look at how israel was created in the first place. zionisim is a hostile movement. the problem with people is that they assume zionism promotes judaism and provides a reason for jews to return to their homeland. first of all, the majority of these jews are not ethnically jewish, so the idea of the homeland is crap. second, zionism was created in switzerland by a jewish journalist, and palestine was NOT the first place they chose for the jewish homeland. it was only after they were kicked out and forced out of other countries like uganda, that they finally decided to go to the middle east, force the local population out of their homes and lands, and took over. the whole thing was bullshit. i understand the jews were a diaspora for a long time, but that gave them no reason to inflict the same kind of treatment that was inflicted upon them for centuries. they are indeed hypocrites.

if you wonder, i am an israeli citizen myself. we were taught this shit in school. we were supposed to be proud of these facts. even the national anthem reeks of bullshit. "lechiyot be chopshi be eretzenu...eretz zion yerushalayim..." which means "to live in freedom in our country, country of zion, jerusalem.

this already shows the scary and dangerous path jews took in accepting zionism. it is nothing but a racist ideology. mind you, there were jews in palestine and the middle east for centuries, still are. they were not treated any differently from anyone else, even lived among muslims and christians for many years. zionism is the true poison, not judaism.

yet. today jews are using zionism as a platform to pursue their goals, and they are doing it with the money and blessing of the united states, if not the majority of western european countries.

this is sickening. but, not a coincidence. look who are the main players in economics, politics, journalism, etc. what do they al have in common....i'll leave it at that.

[seximofo2k]

I really don't believe in the big Jewish conspiracy but this has been goin back in forth and seems pretty spent good discussion though xeno n sassa

[tribal]

here is part of it:

For 3 days, I just destroyed and destroyed. The whole area. Any house that they fired from came down. And to knock it down, i tore down some more. They were warned by loud speaker to get out of the house before i come, but i gave no one a chance. i didn't wait. i didn't give one blow, and wait for them to come out. I would just ram the house with full power, to bring it down as fast as possible. I wanted to get to the other houses. To get as many as possible...Others restrained themselves, or so they say. Who are they kidding?...I didn't give a damn about the Palenstinians, but i didn't just ruin without reason. It was all under orders. -posted by djxeno

i dont post here much but this idiocy that youve presented as proof of IDF's brutality is astonishing. i guess if you believe this worthless and fabricated drivel, you can believe that santa clause gets drunk and flies reindeer on chistmas eve.

let me deconstruct your little story. first of all, the IDF bulldozers operating in Jenin during the fight against hamas gunmen, are the Caterpillar D9 type, a machinery that simply cannot be operated by someone who is intoxicated, due to the amount of control and steering devices. secondly, the area that was demolished in Jenin is equal to one small city block, in a large-city area, not half of Jenin as arab media claims

third, the area that was demolished, was done only due to actions of palestinian gunmen and terrorists, who shamelessly hid themselves among the innocent civilian palestinian population.

the area that was demolished contained alleyways filled with explosives and death traps planted by hamas gunmen, the area was as dangerous to the IDF as it was to palestinians

fourth, this disgusting myth of the so-called Jenin massacre, defiles and lessens the word 'massacre' itself, because there simply was no massacre. consider the UN-backed statistics of the battle; 29 IDF soldiers killed (all in the alley that was later bulldozed) and 51 palestinian gunmen killed. GUNMEN not civilians.

let me tell you what is a massacre however. a bomber walking into a restaurant and murdering 43 elderly people having a passover dinner. a gunman walking into a preschool and spraying away at kids. a suicide bomber walking into a disco, and killing 21 teenagers who were there simply to dance. that, that is a massacre. get your shit straight and know the facts.

[tribal]

little wonder they are hostile. look at how israel was created in the first place. zionisim is a hostile movement. the problem with people is that they assume zionism promotes judaism and provides a reason for jews to return to their homeland. -sassa

another dim light of brilliance. wtf do you know about zionism to talk this complete and irrelevant non sense? people, i beg of you, if you do not know the subject, please do not state your opinions as facts. for those of you who want to know what Zionism means, and what it is about, heres a good source.

http://www.wzo.org.il/en/resources/expand_subject.asp?id=28

[kramadas]

Originally posted by tribal

little wonder they are hostile. look at how israel was created in the first place. zionisim is a hostile movement. the problem with people is that they assume zionism promotes judaism and provides a reason for jews to return to their homeland. -sassa

another dim light of brilliance. wtf do you know about zionism to talk this complete and irrelevant non sense? people, i beg of you, if you do not know the subject, please do not state your opinions as facts. for those of you who want to know what Zionism means, and what it is about, heres a good source.

http://www.wzo.org.il/en/resources/expand_subject.asp?id=28

Dude, I try to read your posts but they are so waaay off base its not funny. I'm sorry, but your views are anything but unbiased. Are you telling me that the IDF has done absolutely NO wrong to the Palestinians...that there have NOT been any incidents of brutality, or excessive force, or racism amongst its soldiers.

If your answer to this is "NO, They haven't", then please don't bother answering my post.

Regarding your site" Department of World Zionism"...yeah a very unbiased site, right!

[djxeno]

Originally posted by tribal

here is part of it:

For 3 days, I just destroyed and destroyed. The whole area. Any house that they fired from came down. And to knock it down, i tore down some more. They were warned by loud speaker to get out of the house before i come, but i gave no one a chance. i didn't wait. i didn't give one blow, and wait for them to come out. I would just ram the house with full power, to bring it down as fast as possible. I wanted to get to the other houses. To get as many as possible...Others restrained themselves, or so they say. Who are they kidding?...I didn't give a damn about the Palenstinians, but i didn't just ruin without reason. It was all under orders. -posted by djxeno

i dont post here much but this idiocy that youve presented as proof of IDF's brutality is astonishing. i guess if you believe this worthless and fabricated drivel, you can believe that santa clause gets drunk and flies reindeer on chistmas eve.

let me deconstruct your little story. first of all, the IDF bulldozers operating in Jenin during the fight against hamas gunmen, are the Caterpillar D9 type, a machinery that simply cannot be operated by someone who is intoxicated, due to the amount of control and steering devices. secondly, the area that was demolished in Jenin is equal to one small city block, in a large-city area, not half of Jenin as arab media claims

third, the area that was demolished, was done only due to actions of palestinian gunmen and terrorists, who shamelessly hid themselves among the innocent civilian palestinian population.

the area that was demolished contained alleyways filled with explosives and death traps planted by hamas gunmen, the area was as dangerous to the IDF as it was to palestinians

fourth, this disgusting myth of the so-called Jenin massacre, defiles and lessens the word 'massacre' itself, because there simply was no massacre. consider the UN-backed statistics of the battle; 29 IDF soldiers killed (all in the alley that was later bulldozed) and 51 palestinian gunmen killed. GUNMEN not civilians.

let me tell you what is a massacre however. a bomber walking into a restaurant and murdering 43 elderly people having a passover dinner. a gunman walking into a preschool and spraying away at kids. a suicide bomber walking into a disco, and killing 21 teenagers who were there simply to dance. that, that is a massacre. get your shit straight and know the facts.

oh please....here we go again....

[kramadas]

Originally posted by djxeno

oh please....here we go again....

I know, eh! Everything's so black and white for him: Israeli good, Palestinian bad!

[sassa]

Originally posted by tribal

little wonder they are hostile. look at how israel was created in the first place. zionisim is a hostile movement. the problem with people is that they assume zionism promotes judaism and provides a reason for jews to return to their homeland. -sassa

another dim light of brilliance. wtf do you know about zionism to talk this complete and irrelevant non sense? people, i beg of you, if you do not know the subject, please do not state your opinions as facts. for those of you who want to know what Zionism means, and what it is about, heres a good source.

http://www.wzo.org.il/en/resources/expand_subject.asp?id=28

:laugh: try 5 years of being educated at former prime minister yitzhak rabin's school. that's where i learned about zionism.

i think my israeli passport also gives me some idea what israel is based on. the ironic thing is that i learned all this while being a proud citizen of eretz israel. so, please, don't try to be all snooty. your argument is bullshit. you're going to deny that zionism is NOT an agressive movement aimed at promoting the "jewish" cause? zionists mislead their own people with this argument. judaism and zionism, i repeat, are two DIFFERENT THINGS!

please.

[guyman1966]

Originally posted by djxeno

As far as Jerusalem, I believe it should be an International City, because it is sacred to Jews, Christians and Muslims. But the Jews aren't having that, they want it all to themselves.

Anytime a Muslim power has had control of the city, other religions were not free to practice their religion.... The Muslim historical track record w/ Jerusalem sucks. However, all groups are free now to practice their religions there...

[kramadas]

Originally posted by guyman1966

Anytime a Muslim power has had control of the city, other religions were not free to practice their religion.... The Muslim historical track record w/ Jerusalem sucks. However, all groups are free now to practice their religions there...

I think the Christians should have control of it.

Or even better, a neutral 3rd party....hmmm...Mormons?

[sassa]

Originally posted by guyman1966

Anytime a Muslim power has had control of the city, other religions were not free to practice their religion.... The Muslim historical track record w/ Jerusalem sucks. However, all groups are free now to practice their religions there...

:laugh: goes to show how much you know about islam. the ottoman empire has millets- (if you don't know what a millet is, it means nation in turkish, or ethnic groups in this case) each millet was allowed to freely worship however they chose- as long as they paid their taxes to the sultan. try reading up more on history before you write such ignorant statements, please. also, if this is the case, then how is it than in countries like tunisia, lebanon, jordan, and egypt, there are scores of faiths, and they are not hidden??? puhleez. you're so biased it's not even funny

[igloo]

Originally posted by raver_mania

I think the Christians should have control of it.

Or even better, a neutral 3rd party....hmmm...Mormons?

How about the Scientologists