lavosdeldiablo Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 Originally posted by brwneydtrouble Sure, they will start slapping people with fines, but who is going to directly benefit from the money from the fines?? People will think twice about DL'ing... Kind of like when you speed on the highway...You might not get caught , but then again you might... Point is if people are scared of getting fined for DL'ing ...They prob wont do it... As a result not have as much music... So if you really love music ??? Guess what ??? Your gonna have to BUY IT... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demo909 Posted September 2 Author Report Share Posted September 2 Originally posted by brwneydtrouble Sure, they will start slapping people with fines, but who is going to directly benefit from the money from the fines?? Hopefully the artist as well as the label. But I think rather than fines, what we will see in the future are encrypted cd's and cdr's that will be sold to the public and won't allow you to transfer music off your computer. Much like the new DVD's coming out that are not able to be copied. Also...there will probably be electronic tagging of cd's. But again this really only benifits the major record labels and artists out there and doesn't really apply to the dance oriented labels who deal with mostly vinyl and with smaller orders of units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brwneydtrouble Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 Originally posted by lavosdeldiablo People will think twice about DL'ing... Kind of like when you speed on the highway...You might not get caught , but then again you might... Point is if people are scared of getting fined for DL'ing ...They prob wont do it... As a result not have as much music... So if you really love music ??? Guess what ??? Your gonna have to BUY IT... I still want to know who's gonna pocket the money from the fines..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavosdeldiablo Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 Originally posted by brwneydtrouble I still want to know who's gonna pocket the money from the fines..... If DL'ing goes down and sales go up ... who cares who pockets the moneyfrom the fines ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demo909 Posted September 2 Author Report Share Posted September 2 The label will receive most of the money from the fines to recoup there losses. Eventually that money will also trickle down to the artist as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmatas2277 Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 Originally posted by brwneydtrouble I still want to know who's gonna pocket the money from the fines..... obviously the Fed. Govt'...and maybe the fines can be "spread" among the Labels that are filing for loss wages...and i am with Lavos on this one...does it matter? a Deterrant is a Deterrant...u want to stop downloading... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vipnerd Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 Just out of curiosity ... how good were their releases in the last months ... I remember when girls were all over brands like LA Gear ... if you don't keep up ... the name alone can't hold for ever ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschoolny Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 There are alot of really good points being made here on both sides.I just have one question if you the recodrd label know that dj's are using downloaded and burned copies and not handing out promo cd's why not start holding the dj's responsible for using pirated music too. I am sure you could go and visit the clubs and start there.Its always the consumer but there are ton's of dj's that haven't bought a piece of music in years now. You could make money off of them just as easy as us. At least the consumer for the most part isnt making money or a living off your music.And don't say its because then your music won't be heard thats bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavosdeldiablo Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 Originally posted by oldschoolny There are alot of really good points being made here on both sides.I just have one question if you the recodrd label know that dj's are using downloaded and burned copies and not handing out promo cd's why not start holding the dj's responsible for using pirated music too. I am sure you could go and visit the clubs and start there.Its always the consumer but there are ton's of dj's that haven't bought a piece of music in years now. You could make money off of them just as easy as us. At least the consumer for the most part isnt making money or a living off your music.And don't say its because then your music won't be heard thats bullshit. i agree 100% DJ's that dont buy music are just as much to blame... Especially the ones that rip vinyl to filesharing programs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shroomy Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 Why doesn't any mention that downloading music to use the way people do is just plain illegal and wrong?And Saleen, what a stupid and off the point example. Coke and Pepsi.... bwaaaah... who would buy either if you could just shoplift it with a .00001% of anything happening to you?Free market also means companies need to make enough money to survive. And they obviously are not.To justify that its ok since you wouldnt have bought it anyway or because its too expensive is just silly too. By that rational, I can go steal from the local Hugo Boss store because I can't afford it and wouldn't have bought it, and just leave the $10 or so it costs to make their $100 pants. (and ignore all the other costs they incure) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southof5th Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 Originally posted by vipnerd Just out of curiosity ... how good were their releases in the last months ... I remember when girls were all over brands like LA Gear ... if you don't keep up ... the name alone can't hold for ever ... That's what I was going to say...Maybe it's because the music Nervous puts out is boooooring...You have to adapt...90's US house doesn't cut it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djoscarg Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 I agree 100% with Shroomy...The one thing that these debates on downloading always fail to mention is the fact that it is ILLEGAL!!!What difference does it make if Saleen can quote a few grade school economics books or Flip wouldnt buy most of the music he steals?The fact of the matter is that it's copyright infringement in it's grossest form and it is a Federal offense....It is piracy...nothing less....Economics has nothing to do with it...it is simple...people will take FREE everytime!!!! Why pay (any price) when you can just steal the music???It's funny how the fact that it is music (entertainment) makes people hold it at a lower standard.....Why isn't everyone outraged about the ridiculous prices of designer clothing? Should we all go out and shoplift some Dolce & Gabana threads just to teach them a lesson on greed? Each time one of my songs is downloaded (which is quite often) it has a direct effect on myself (the artist) as well as my family...not to mention the label, distributor, pressing plant, graphic artist, photographer, printer, mastering engineer, publicist, record store etc...I think today's society (especially the youth) has been totally desensitized to the fact that downloading is a crime...It has become the norm...and that is wrong...The fact that they are starting to slap people on the wrist for it is long overdue...I have a feeling if some of you were having stuff stolen from your respective businesses you would be singing a different tune... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjoebudious Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 The record business needs to collapse. For too long they have screwed the consumers to the artists. CD's should not under any circumstances cost $15-$20. I don't care what's on them. The cost to make is cents. If they sold cd's for like $4, with real nice packaging and inserts, people would feel less inclined to steal the music. Digital technology is here, face it. You rip off people, they rip you off back. This is not including vinyl. That is something different in itself. Vinyl companies should be about passion first. The market is slow right now. There is not alot of profit to make in vinyl. CD's are a totally different and cheap.I don't own a record company but if I put out a cd and I needed 3,000 units sold at $15 each to break even, I would shut my doors as well because its ripping people off to break even. It needs to make sense. sales minus expenses should = profit.I know nothing of these companies business, I am using mainly the big companies as examples. All I know is $20 for a cd is way too much money. Because it is a rip off, I'll try to rip it off myself.Apple has got a pretty good idea except I think even $1 a song is too much.But hey, what do I know. I only throw parties for a living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djoscarg Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 Originally posted by mrjoebudious The record business needs to collapse. For too long they have screwed the consumers to the artists. CD's should not under any circumstances cost $15-$20. I don't care what's on them. The cost to make is cents. If they sold cd's for like $4, with real nice packaging and inserts, people would feel less inclined to steal the music. Digital technology is here, face it. You rip off people, they rip you off back. This is not including vinyl. That is something different in itself. Vinyl companies should be about passion first. The market is slow right now. There is not alot of profit to make in vinyl. CD's are a totally different and cheap.I don't own a record company but if I put out a cd and I needed 3,000 units sold at $15 each to break even, I would shut my doors as well because its ripping people off to break even. It needs to make sense. sales minus expenses should = profit.I know nothing of these companies business, I am using mainly the big companies as examples. All I know is $20 for a cd is way too much money. Because it is a rip off, I'll try to rip it off myself.Apple has got a pretty good idea except I think even $1 a song is too much.But hey, what do I know. I only throw parties for a living. This is just ridiculous!!!So if next week people think your party is a rip-off you will understand when they just bum-rush the door and run behind the bars and poor themselves drinks to rip you off in return??This mentality doesn't make sense....and...please explain how you can retail a full-length CD for four dollars and make a profit???When you say a CD costs cents to make...you are talking about the CD itself....that is like saying a Picasso should be worth the couple of bucks the canvas it's painted on costs...I think you guys are just trying to find ways to justify criminal activity... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 Originally posted by djoscarg I(which is quite often) it has a direct effect on myself (the artist) as well as my family...not to mention the label, distributor, pressing plant, graphic artist, photographer Thanks for getting my back Oscar raises a good point though. I used to d/l all sorts of songs I'd hear in a club...I usually don't anymore unless it's a bootleg remix of some 80s tune I liked...(since the bootleg is illegal already...)any sort of "legit" tracks I see I'll go out and get, or since I don't have decks, I'll find a comp with the track on it, or (gasp!) buy the CD single...At the same time, I don't agree with the Gestapo tactics of the government and the RIAA in trying to enforce the laws...shutting down the software companies, etc...by that logic, next time I get shot can I sue Heckler and Koch? The laws need to be enforced, but the government is going about it the wrong way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fliptoniaaa Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 i agree that shroomy has some valid points, but i dont see oscar hurting to much ......which goes back to the greed factor.theres a new era coming to the music world if they like it or not......im not saying that what i do is correct, but what the music industry has been doing for years isnt workin that much anymore, so therefore evolution is in progress......what u want oscar will not be, what i want will probably not be either, but lets agree to this....the recording industry needs to change.....cuz the old way will never be again!!!!!on a side note its good to see c.p. can just have a conversation without it getting personal!!!!!!! i guess there is some maturity in here after all!!!!! :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shroomy Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 Originally posted by fliptoniaaa i agree that shroomy has some valid points, but i dont see oscar hurting to much ......which goes back to the greed factor. True but Oscar beat the ods, and used his talent to be successfull. Why shouldn't he reap the rewards? The ultimate form of greed is stealing something from someone else. You saying that your need is greater than the law, and their rights.and come on guys, this is food, its music, you don't have some god given right to it.And lets not even go into dj's who rip, then use the tunes at gigs where they are getting paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djoscarg Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 Originally posted by fliptoniaaa i agree that shroomy has some valid points, but i dont see oscar hurting to much ......which goes back to the greed factor. Greed factor? should I be hurting? c'mon Flip..practice what you preach:"DON'T HATE....APPRECIATE!!!";)Originally posted by fliptoniaaa theres a new era coming to the music world if they like it or not......im not saying that what i do is correct, but what the music industry has been doing for years isnt workin that much anymore, so therefore evolution is in progress......what u want oscar will not be, what i want will probably not be either, but lets agree to this....the recording industry needs to change.....cuz the old way will never be again!!!!!I agree with you here...but you have to understand...the music industry HAS changed....you can find most songs for sale on the internet for a dollar....but the fact remains that people will always prefer to pay NOTHING over any dollar amount...How do you fight that? My point was not that the music industry is always right...My point is that stealing music is always wrong!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shroomy Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 BTW I forgot to mention.....I certainly thing the myriad of small labels did much more to hurt the industry than the piracy issue. But that is just free market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstractrhythm Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fliptoniaaa Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 im not so much saying that oscar is greedy....it just looks good the way i wrote it up there!!!!!Im happy that oscar has beaten the odds....hes provided an endless amount of good times for endless amounts of people all over the world....he deserves what he has just for doing that!!!!and im gonna go appreciate ur ass this friday at life...so there u go!!!!!!!!and im just glad to see people could have difference of opinions on here and voice them without being personally atacked!!!!!!!cheers to every1 in this conversation!!!!!!!!!!and i'll probably buy a few tunes online if they have a good selection, and just to rub it in i bought a c.d. yesterday, that i could have easily dl'ed!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fliptoniaaa Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 oh one more thing.....this is the same conversation people had when double deck tapes came out!!!!!!!!the only thing this time is that its digital, and u dont lose generation from a copy!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjoebudious Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 Yes Oscar I agree with you totally.I know I don't rip people off. If I did, I feel I would deserve to get bum rushed. But I don't rip people off, so that does not happen.Again, I am using the big record companies as an example (which I stated), not small ones. As a consumer, I feel deep inside my soul that $20 for a cd is a huge fucking rip off. As such, if there is a means to get mine so be it. You may feel different since you are on the other side of the fence. I am stating my opinion, whether its biased, unintelligent or "ridiculous". It is my opinion.Here is another example. In retail there is a formula that goes something like.If you pay an employee $5 and hour and that employee thinks he/she should make $8 and hour, the employee steals from the company which, with its losses, ends up paying out $10 and hour. If they just paid out the $8 an hour in the first place, they would not have lost the addditional $2 and hour.I don't know if that made my point any clearer.For everyones info, I download only classic songs for my own listening just as one would grab the tape deck and record from your friends copy. I'm not a dj and do not make any money with my Marvin Gaye downloads. The record business is changing and those that have something to lose are not liking the change.I, as a consumer, want the change, whatever that change may be. I want $4 cd's, record companies want there $20 maybe they will find the medium of $7-$8. I will say that if the price goes up, so will bootlegging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest saleen351 Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 Originally posted by djoscarg I agree 100% with Shroomy...The one thing that these debates on downloading always fail to mention is the fact that it is ILLEGAL!!!What difference does it make if Saleen can quote a few grade school economics books or Flip wouldnt buy most of the music he steals?The fact of the matter is that it's copyright infringement in it's grossest form and it is a Federal offense....It is piracy...nothing less....Economics has nothing to do with it...it is simple...people will take FREE everytime!!!! Why pay (any price) when you can just steal the music???It's funny how the fact that it is music (entertainment) makes people hold it at a lower standard.....Why isn't everyone outraged about the ridiculous prices of designer clothing? Should we all go out and shoplift some Dolce & Gabana threads just to teach them a lesson on greed? Each time one of my songs is downloaded (which is quite often) it has a direct effect on myself (the artist) as well as my family...not to mention the label, distributor, pressing plant, graphic artist, photographer, printer, mastering engineer, publicist, record store etc...I think today's society (especially the youth) has been totally desensitized to the fact that downloading is a crime...It has become the norm...and that is wrong...The fact that they are starting to slap people on the wrist for it is long overdue...I have a feeling if some of you were having stuff stolen from your respective businesses you would be singing a different tune... grade school:laugh: that made me laugh, i spend 100k on economics, i'm pretty confident i know what i'm talking about, you guys on the other hand don't understand markets. I spent 5 long years studying markets and learning it from books such as Wealth of Nations, which is the basis for everything you buy in America... I even traded commodities in NYC which is why your cereal is the same price everday, and it would take me months to even begin to get into that. But commodities and music are very a like.Now perfect example is DVD's. They are priced in a good range where the public feels its a good buy and worth the money, DVDs account fof over 60% of total profits for hollywood. But wait i should pay more for a house cd than a copy of Goodfellas??? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FING MIND? Movies are timeless, music is not. Bump the price of DVD's up to 25 bucks and guess what, no one will buy them. Thats the invisible hand working...Oscar your D and G arguement is typical Dade county education, D & G is a luxury item in market, just like caddies or beemers. Music is music, there is no luxury cds or anything that would set a certain cd apart from the rest, no quality issue, no material, no seemenship issues etc.. Sonly spent 60 million to re do MJ's cd and it bomb, and those looses are past on to us.. <<<< please answer why we should fit the bill for the mistakes of others... you can't... no one can.. it's fucked up...in the end i'll win the argument, my theory is based on sound economic principles established in the late 1700's whereas you are talking about D&G. You'll see in the end in a short while, cd prices will tank, and then recover slightly and stablize at market equilbrium.... if i'm wrong, then kill yourself, cause this is what entire world is based on...The argument that it's too easy to steal music is a valid one, but the markets know the avg person won't steal if they had the choice of buying a cd, that they felt is worth the purchase over downloading it. Also you will see more artists on the road. The record sale recession got all those rappers off thier asses and on tour... BTW where can i send my check to U2 at? i hear they are poor.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaughanz Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 Originally posted by djoscarg Should we all go out and shoplift some Dolce & Gabana threads just to teach them a lesson on greed? Great point! And the designer clothing industry is taking a HUGE beating in the very same way you are and the record companies! Example.... EBAY! 3/4 of all the "designer" clothes ARE bootlegs and people are buying them all day long!!! I agree with both sides here.. Yes it's illegal, you are 100% right and that CAN'T be argued AT all... but if I find a pair of 7 Jeans online for $40... No love lost for the people over at 7 Jeans. I thinks it's absolute extortion for some of the prices people pay for clothes, me included! Unfortunately music gets a bit more personal especially with there being a good number of "artists" on this board. I am one of the (few) people who like having the "actual" product, artwork, packaging etc.. I even pay 99¢ a song from Apple Music all day long! I don't mind paying for instant gratification and doing so legally, that's me! But I do know that I also go online and look for that one song I can't find "legally" or the accapella I just want to use tonight. And I recently started listening to a lot of Jazz but have yet to pay for any of it. So it's a weird and very touchy subject. It will be a very fine line and I wish it could be regulated like taxes... If you make more money, you pay more taxes...IF sell more records, lowe the fucking price. I know it doesn't cost $1 to make a cd... photoshoots, hair & make-up artists, pos displays, ads, publicity yada, yada, yada... but there seems to be a lot of bling-bling'ing going on out there! And if it's all an act (like a lot of it is)... well that's the image were painted... so I say go ahead; it won't hurt! Getting off topic... Unfortunately, It's the smaller artists that REALLY feel this impact the most... YEs, the big stars are feeling it too, but what can be done...Is it legal- NOShould we do it- NOWill "we" do it- Unfortunately YesThat would be a great twist for this thread.... What could the music industry do so that there is a resolution to this "epedemic" problem... what CAN be done to monitor and regulate this?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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