djxeno Posted November 20 Report Share Posted November 20 Originally posted by igloo You really are a lame shithead. You must get your ass kicked all the time you little bitch. edit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted November 20 Author Report Share Posted November 20 Originally posted by djxeno exactly. u CANT quote exact lines cuz you have no fuckin clue as to what you are talking about. no evidence to back up one word of hate you constantly spit from your mouth. once again you have shown what a blithering idiot you really are. Please shut the fuck up shitbag. Your desperate little attempt to prove a point is weak, and only cements your status as a jerkoff.You have not provided one coherent or intelligent thought, statement, or opinion on this board since your weak ass became known as a jerkoff.Keep trying jerkoff with your twisting, all it does is prove you are a lame ass bitch. There has been plenty of data that has been posted on this board about Koranic teachings. If you want an exact line, look it up or do your own research. You may even get an education. But most people with half a brain can continue within the context of this discussion whithout having to hire a theologin for exact wording that we know are there, and is common knowledge.Fucking jerkoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djxeno Posted November 20 Report Share Posted November 20 Originally posted by igloo Please shut the fuck up shitbag. Your desperate little attempt to prove a point is weak, and only cements your status as a jerkoff.You have not provided one coherent or intelligent thought, statement, or opinion on this board since your weak ass became known as a jerkoff.Keep trying jerkoff with your twisting, all it does is prove you are a lame ass bitch. There has been plenty of data that has been posted on this board about Koranic teachings. If you want an exact line, look it up or do your own research. You may even get an education. But most people with half a brain can continue within the context of this discussion whithout having to hire a theologin for exact wording that we know are there, and is common knowledge.Fucking jerkoff Right, im asking you for specifics and data and you say i have not provided one intelligent thought.what dont u look them up for me if you have such a problem with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted November 20 Author Report Share Posted November 20 Originally posted by djxeno but shhhh.......we cant talk about that....even if i quote SPECIFIC lines from the quran that talk about peace and tolerance of other religions and even praise jesus and moses it still must be a violent religion. You are missing the point you fucking retard. Your stupidity is fucking mind boggling. Like I said before, you can preach all you want about Islam as a peaceful religion, but as I said and I will repeat....How about the possibility that there is a fundamental problem with Koranic teachings?..................teachings......teachings...Understand retard?...Get it moron?....Can you make the distinction simpleton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted November 20 Author Report Share Posted November 20 Originally posted by djxeno Right, im asking you for specifics and data and you say i have not provided one intelligent thought.what dont u look them up for me if you have such a problem with them? Do it yourself jerkoff and nice job as always as missing the point and hijacking another thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted November 20 Author Report Share Posted November 20 Just to shut you the fuck up, and hopefully put an end to your endless vomiting of idiosy.....here is an example right from this original post (which obviously you are too dumb to read).....Elder: You write, "Muslims must present non-Muslims with the three choices of Sura 9:29 of the (Koran): conversion, submission with second-class status under Islamic rule, or death."Spencer: Correct. This is a deeply rooted tradition in Islam. Islam is unique among religions in having a developed doctrine theology in law that mandates violence against non-believers. Not all Muslims take it seriously, but the radicals do, and they are working to recruit and motivate terrorists. So . . . whenever anybody says we want to institute Sharia Islamic law in a country, they mean these laws. They do not provide for the equality of rights and dignity of non-Muslims in a Muslim society . . . (but) mandate just the opposite -- that non-Muslims are not to be given equality of rights, but denied various jobs because they're not allowed to hold authority over Muslims. They must pay a special tax called the jizya, which is referred to in the verse you mentioned. . . . Their humiliation and inferior status is enforced with numerous other regulations, still part of Islamic law, and liable to be enforced by radical Muslims and who want to gain power and institute Islamic law. . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr mahs Posted November 20 Report Share Posted November 20 Originally posted by djxeno ruining it for all of us? what kind of world do you live in son....wahabism is small sect of islam, just like the KKK is a small sect of christianity.80 percent of muslims are sunni and do not believe in wahabism. Yet it is this small group that is droppping skyscrapers and creating the anti-muslim sentiment .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiroguy1 Posted November 20 Report Share Posted November 20 I don't know why I try to help this guy. Igloo... Look at all of your responses when someone retorts your arguement. You call them a Jerkoff, Retartd, Shitbag...don't you think you come off looking the douche when you get so frustrated that you have to verbally insult someone because your arguement is weak?hopeless... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted November 20 Author Report Share Posted November 20 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 I don't know why I try to help this guy. Igloo... Look at all of your responses when someone retorts your arguement. You call them a Jerkoff, Retartd, Shitbag...don't you think you come off looking the douche when you get so frustrated that you have to verbally insult someone because your arguement is weak?hopeless... Go fuck yourself jerkoff, retard, shitbag......If your retort has worth, you will get a response in kind...if you retort is filled with the bullshit that flows from your and djxenos rotted asses, I must shove it back where it belongs....Therefore, go fuck yourself jerkoff, retard, shitbag...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiroguy1 Posted November 20 Report Share Posted November 20 Originally posted by igloo Go fuck yourself jerkoff, retard, shitbag......If your retort has worth, you will get a response in kind...if you retort is filled with the bullshit that flows from your and djxenos rotted asses, I must shove it back where it belongs....Therefore, go fuck yourself jerkoff, retard, shitbag...... Just the response a latent homosexual would produce....Once again, you've proven my point well. I feel sorry for your mother. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted November 20 Author Report Share Posted November 20 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 Once again, you've proven my point well. I feel sorry for your mother. lol Go fuck yourself jerkoff, retard, shitbag...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiroguy1 Posted November 20 Report Share Posted November 20 weak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted November 20 Author Report Share Posted November 20 This should add a little more fuel to the fire.....However, for many Muslims this war is called "peace," and "liberation." The logic of this conception has been elucidated by the respected contemporary Muslim scholar, Bassam Tibi, in his cogent analysis of jihad. Because jihad imposes the Koranic truth, it is considered an act of peace. Tibi explains: "In this sense Muslims believe that expansion through war is not aggression but a fulfillment of the Koranic command to spread Islam as a way to peace. The resort to force to disseminate Islam is not war (harb), a word that is used only to describe the use of force by non-Muslims." Hence Islamic wars are not wars, but meritorious efforts to liberate the world from disbelief (jahaliyya) by its submission to Islam. Only submission brings peace, and it is the non-Muslim's failure to submit that provokes war. July 23, 2003, 10:00 a.m.The Meaning of PeaceCAIR vs. Daniel Pipes.By Bat YeorThe word "peace" is used with excessive license. For this reason, the U.S. Institute of Peace should choose carefully, as board members, those who understand the American meaning of peace. There are many wars ravaging our planet. Their intensity, motivations, and tactics differ. But "jihad" — announced triumphantly and waged across the globe — has killed the greatest number of Americans in recent years, both in the United States and abroad. And the number of victims of jihad would have been multiplied considerably if warlike security measures had not been implemented. Jihad is an Islamic war against non-Muslims. In the seventh century, Arab Muslims waged jihad campaigns to seize control of the entire Arabian peninsula — expelling the indigenous Christians and Jews from the Hijaz, and slaying, or forcing the conversion of all pagan Arabs to Islam. Over a millennium of jihad-wars Muslims conquered lands extending from Portugal to India, and from Poland to the Sudan. Jihad strategy and warfare still apply today, and can be observed in Algeria, Israel, the Sudan, Kashmir, Afghanistan, Indonesia, the Philippines, and elsewhere. Jihad is described in countless Muslim treaties, and other Muslim and non-Muslim, especially Christian, chronicles. For Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, and other non-Muslims, jihad was (and is) a cruel form of warfare, leading at various times to genocidal devastation. However, for many Muslims this war is called "peace," and "liberation." The logic of this conception has been elucidated by the respected contemporary Muslim scholar, Bassam Tibi, in his cogent analysis of jihad. Because jihad imposes the Koranic truth, it is considered an act of peace. Tibi explains: "In this sense Muslims believe that expansion through war is not aggression but a fulfillment of the Koranic command to spread Islam as a way to peace. The resort to force to disseminate Islam is not war (harb), a word that is used only to describe the use of force by non-Muslims." Hence Islamic wars are not wars, but meritorious efforts to liberate the world from disbelief (jahaliyya) by its submission to Islam. Only submission brings peace, and it is the non-Muslim's failure to submit that provokes war. Thus, we have two strikingly different interpretations of war and peace which must be examined with great care by those in the West responsible for resolving conflicts. Today vehement objections have been raised by the <a href="http://www.cair-net.org/">Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR)</a> against the nomination of Daniel Pipes to the board of the U.S. Institute of Peace. Daniel Pipes is an accomplished scholar of Islamic civilization past and present, having conducted seminal research, for example, on both the origins of the Medieval Muslim slave soldier system, and the contemporary implications of the Salman Rushdie fatwa issued by Ayatollah Khomeini. CAIR's animosity to Pipes derives largely from his Western interpretation of the jihad war. CAIR, in contrast, adopts the traditional Muslim interpretation of jihad, i.e., Islamic "peace," where conflicts are provoked solely by "misguided" Western policies of obstruction to the peaceful spread of Islam and the sharia law. CAIR's position is shared by many non-Muslims. Europe, for instance, has adopted such views in conducting its foreign policy. For European analysts, historical jihad has been effaced from history. Past conflicts between Christendom and Islam are explained by the Crusades, the Catholic Inquisition, and Western imperialism and colonialism. The ideology and history of jihad are obfuscated deliberately. This European adoption of the Islamic interpretation of jihad, attributing the cause of conflict to the West, has determined the EU foreign policy for nearly 30 years. The negation of jihad and its attendant terrorism has led the EU to deny the very sources of terrorism. This desperate attempt to maintain the peace on EU territory is characterized by a pusillanimous policy of proclaimed self-guilt, and permanent concessions to terrorist organizations labeled as "resistance movements." Thus European cities have become hotbeds of jihadist terrorists, since Europe denies the very notion that jihad is warlike. European politicians are constantly quoted in the media insisting that American policies — not the jihadists — are the source of terror. This cowardly denial of reality, based on market interests, has given Europe a precarious security, sustained by appeasement measures and payments to jihadist countries.The denial of jihad terror as a war of aggression has led Europe to pursue a foreign and domestic policy that makes its future uncertain. The United States must examine conflicts according to Western definitions in order to preserve Western values and freedoms. These conflicts will never be solved by interpreting jihad as a peaceful liberation. The nomination of Daniel Pipes to the U.S. Institute of Peace is most appropriate since he will bring to bear on these crucial matters his unique wisdom, courage, and moral integrity.— Bat Yeor has written extensively on Jews and Christians under Islam. Her latest book, Islam and Dhimmitude: Where Civilizations Collide has just been reprinted in paperback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmatas2277 Posted November 20 Report Share Posted November 20 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 I feel sorry for your mother. lol no Menace to Society Movie quotes here!!!this a NON-HIP HOP Current Events Forum...u wanna talk about Hoes, Gats and Dubs...go to another Message Board...cant talk any of this Hip Hop crap right hurrrrrrrrrrr..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted November 20 Report Share Posted November 20 i want to ask a question to the anti-islam people of this board.what is your opinion of the abortion clinic bombers and abortion doctor killers? they were all highly devout christians, and beleived that what they were doing was what God wanted. they used their interpretation of God to justify their use of terrorism.does that mean christianity should be held in the same regard as Islam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted November 20 Report Share Posted November 20 Originally posted by mr mahs Yet it is this small group that is droppping skyscrapers and creating the anti-muslim sentiment .... True - but thats the point a small groupThere are millions of other muslims in the world other than the middle east. And a lot of anti-American sentiment(esp. ME) is created when the Muslims on the more moderate side things see things like the US' seeminly unconditional support of Israel, the attack of soverign muslim nations (there was a great article a while back where it basically says that even if most Muslims in the ME did not support Saddam, they would still rather have taken him out by their own kind then by the US), etc, etc. Most muslims are fiercely loyal to each other...thus, sometimes even if their bethren might not be in the right, they would rather sort things out themselves than have an outsider do it. I read on another messageboard (which unfortunately is down now) where there were actually posters from Saudi(expats and locals alike)...they say the situation is not as bad as the media makes it out to be...most of the normal people are quite indifferent about the US...neither like nor dislike. However, at this point, these Al queda extremists are starting to fuck up big time by blowing up stuff in Saudi and Turkey IMO.Iran is on its way to a revolution..that place has great potential to grow if the country can get out of the grips of its religious ruling party. Food for thought: how do most of you figure that muslim clerics are spreading hate, and there is nothing but hate for the US in the ME. Is it from the same media that seeks to sensationalize Iraq by only reporting the bad, and not the progress that has been made? Then, is it also not possible that this same media might be omitting the good things that are happening there. Thus, the view presented to us of the ME could be quite skewed.I can agree that the ME needs a reform, and maybe certain parts of the Koran, but to say Islam is not a peaceful religion is extremely wrong.For example, Jesus is considered one of the prophets in Islam too - its just that Mohamed is considered the last prophet. Many of the characters in the Bible can be found in the Koran (and not in a negative sense). Contradictions can also be found in the bible as in the Koran. For example, the Bible says "thou shall not kill" but then goes to on to talk about stoning gays, adulterers, etc, etc. Especially that old testament.Finally, I really doubt the validity of "Spencer's" command of the subject. I always am very skeptical of anyone who claims to be an expert of an existing religion who is not of that religion. Its like saying Mohamed Abdul Ali is an expert in the bible, and he pulls out stuff that puts Christianity in a bad light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djxeno Posted November 21 Report Share Posted November 21 Originally posted by igloo Just to shut you the fuck up, and hopefully put an end to your endless vomiting of idiosy.....here is an example right from this original post (which obviously you are too dumb to read).....Elder: You write, "Muslims must present non-Muslims with the three choices of Sura 9:29 of the (Koran): conversion, submission with second-class status under Islamic rule, or death."Spencer: Correct. This is a deeply rooted tradition in Islam. Islam is unique among religions in having a developed doctrine theology in law that mandates violence against non-believers. Not all Muslims take it seriously, but the radicals do, and they are working to recruit and motivate terrorists. So . . . whenever anybody says we want to institute Sharia Islamic law in a country, they mean these laws. They do not provide for the equality of rights and dignity of non-Muslims in a Muslim society . . . (but) mandate just the opposite -- that non-Muslims are not to be given equality of rights, but denied various jobs because they're not allowed to hold authority over Muslims. They must pay a special tax called the jizya, which is referred to in the verse you mentioned. . . . Their humiliation and inferior status is enforced with numerous other regulations, still part of Islamic law, and liable to be enforced by radical Muslims and who want to gain power and institute Islamic law. . . . LOL you call these original quotes? this is just some mother fucker talking about suras that he read. once again you cannot quote specific passages that you have a problem with, therefore you have no point.what about the humiliation and inferior status non Jews living in Israel have to put up with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djxeno Posted November 21 Report Share Posted November 21 Originally posted by raver_mania True - but thats the point a small groupThere are millions of other muslims in the world other than the middle east. And a lot of anti-American sentiment(esp. ME) is created when the Muslims on the more moderate side things see things like the US' seeminly unconditional support of Israel, the attack of soverign muslim nations (there was a great article a while back where it basically says that even if most Muslims in the ME did not support Saddam, they would still rather have taken him out by their own kind then by the US), etc, etc. Most muslims are fiercely loyal to each other...thus, sometimes even if their bethren might not be in the right, they would rather sort things out themselves than have an outsider do it. I read on another messageboard (which unfortunately is down now) where there were actually posters from Saudi(expats and locals alike)...they say the situation is not as bad as the media makes it out to be...most of the normal people are quite indifferent about the US...neither like nor dislike. However, at this point, these Al queda extremists are starting to fuck up big time by blowing up stuff in Saudi and Turkey IMO.Iran is on its way to a revolution..that place has great potential to grow if the country can get out of the grips of its religious ruling party. Food for thought: how do most of you figure that muslim clerics are spreading hate, and there is nothing but hate for the US in the ME. Is it from the same media that seeks to sensationalize Iraq by only reporting the bad, and not the progress that has been made? Then, is it also not possible that this same media might be omitting the good things that are happening there. Thus, the view presented to us of the ME could be quite skewed.I can agree that the ME needs a reform, and maybe certain parts of the Koran, but to say Islam is not a peaceful religion is extremely wrong.For example, Jesus is considered one of the prophets in Islam too - its just that Mohamed is considered the last prophet. Many of the characters in the Bible can be found in the Koran (and not in a negative sense). Contradictions can also be found in the bible as in the Koran. For example, the Bible says "thou shall not kill" but then goes to on to talk about stoning gays, adulterers, etc, etc. Especially that old testament.Finally, I really doubt the validity of "Spencer's" command of the subject. I always am very skeptical of anyone who claims to be an expert of an existing religion who is not of that religion. Its like saying Mohamed Abdul Ali is an expert in the bible, and he pulls out stuff that puts Christianity in a bad light. Raver, you make some good points, but when you said most muslims are fiercly loyal to each other that just isn't correct. Maybe during the Ottoman Empire it was true, but now things are very different. Muslims don't exactly have a love affair for each other. THis is very apparent, especially with the Israeli/Palestine issue and the Sunni/Shite issue.Let's take Saddam for example. He was willing to kill several thousand of his own muslim brothers for power. He attacked Iran, a heavily populated Shite nation, and also Kuwait which is mostly Sunni. There were various reasons why he went into Kuwait which i wont get into now, but the fact is that he attacked another muslim nation.As for the Palestine issue, you can see how they don't get much help from various arab nations. Especially Saudi Arabia. And Pakistan and Indonesia (which is the most heavily populated muslim country in the world) has done nothing. When Pakistan was asked to help the Palestine issue they replied "Let the Arabs handle it."Also, there is alot of hate between Shites and Sunni Muslims today, even in America. Alot of Sunnis dont like them and look at them as not being Muslim. Granted, they have alot of different beliefs, but they are still Muslim. So the fact is Muslims arent really united together like we should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiroguy1 Posted November 21 Report Share Posted November 21 Originally posted by mrmatas2277 no Menace to Society Movie quotes here!!!this a NON-HIP HOP Current Events Forum...u wanna talk about Hoes, Gats and Dubs...go to another Message Board...cant talk any of this Hip Hop crap right hurrrrrrrrrrr..... You love it! Hollaaaaa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted November 21 Report Share Posted November 21 Originally posted by djxeno Raver, you make some good points, but when you said most muslims are fiercly loyal to each other that just isn't correct. Maybe during the Ottoman Empire it was true, but now things are very different. Muslims don't exactly have a love affair for each other. THis is very apparent, especially with the Israeli/Palestine issue and the Sunni/Shite issue.Let's take Saddam for example. He was willing to kill several thousand of his own muslim brothers for power. He attacked Iran, a heavily populated Shite nation, and also Kuwait which is mostly Sunni. There were various reasons why he went into Kuwait which i wont get into now, but the fact is that he attacked another muslim nation.As for the Palestine issue, you can see how they don't get much help from various arab nations. Especially Saudi Arabia. And Pakistan and Indonesia (which is the most heavily populated muslim country in the world) has done nothing. When Pakistan was asked to help the Palestine issue they replied "Let the Arabs handle it."Also, there is alot of hate between Shites and Sunni Muslims today, even in America. Alot of Sunnis dont like them and look at them as not being Muslim. Granted, they have alot of different beliefs, but they are still Muslim. So the fact is Muslims arent really united together like we should be. You're right that there is no love lost between many of the muslim countries, but thats not the point I was trying to make. Isn't it true, that, though there is a lot of animosity between the two sects, that when attacked by an outsider, there is a sort of banding together? Of course, I could be totally wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djxeno Posted November 21 Report Share Posted November 21 Originally posted by raver_mania You're right that there is no love lost between many of the muslim countries, but thats not the point I was trying to make. Isn't it true, that, though there is a lot of animosity between the two sects, that when attacked by an outsider, there is a sort of banding together? Of course, I could be totally wrong. Thats the way it should be, but sadly so its not the case. Look when Iraq got invaded and Afghanistan got attacked. Did you hear anything from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, or Iran?Nothing at all, except if they were gonna let the U.S. use there bases or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksimons Posted November 21 Report Share Posted November 21 this is what happens when you use generic terms such as arab and muslim without really appreciating the nuances of the actual situation on the ground.luckily you're not having to face this realisation of being woefully under-informed from a dangerous situation...props for trying to find out more.if you really wanna know more, try searching some arab news sites, I'll try and find some links and post them at some point...al jazeera is a good startbelieve english.aljazeera.net is their english language thingiran:http://www.iribnews.com/front_en.ASP?sec=front_enhttp://www.turkishdailynews.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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