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Indications Saddam Was Not in Hiding But a Captive

funketeer

By funketeer
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funketeer Newbie

funketeer

Posted
Posted

A number of questions are raised by the incredibly bedraggled, tired and crushed condition of this once savage, dapper and pampered ruler who was discovered in a hole in the ground on Saturday, December 13:

1. The length and state of his hair indicated he had not seen a barber or even had a shampoo for several weeks.

2. The wild state of his beard indicated he had not shaved for the same period

3. The hole dug in the floor of a cellar in a farm compound near Tikrit was primitive indeed ? 6ft across and 8ft across with minimal sanitary arrangements - a far cry from his opulent palaces.

4. Saddam looked beaten and hungry.

5. Detained with him were two unidentified men, two AK-47 assault guns and a pistol, none of which were used.

6. The hole had only one opening. It was not only camouflaged with mud and bricks ? it was blocked. He could not have climbed out without someone on the outside removing the covering.

7. And most important, $750,000 in 100-dollar notes were found with him ? but no communications equipment of any kind, whether cell phone or even a carrier pigeon for contacting the outside world.

According to analysts, these seven anomalies point to one conclusion: Saddam Hussein was not in hiding; he was a prisoner.

After his last audiotaped message was delivered and aired over al Arabiya TV on Sunday November 16, on the occasion of Ramadan, Saddam was seized, possibly with the connivance of his own men, and held in that hole in Adwar for three weeks or more, which would have accounted for his appearance and condition. Meanwhile, his captors bargained for the $25 m prize the Americans promised for information leading to his capture alive or dead. The negotiations were mediated by Jalal Talabani?s Kurdish PUK militia.

These circumstances would explain the ex-ruler?s docility ? described by Lt.Gen. Ricardo Sanchez as ?resignation? ? in the face of his capture by US forces. He must have regarded them as his rescuers and would have greeted them with relief.

From Gen. Sanchez?s evasive answers to questions on the $25m bounty, it may be inferred that the Americans and Kurds took advantage of the negotiations with Saddam?s abductors to move in close and capture him on their own account, for three reasons:

A. His capture had become a matter of national pride for the Americans. No kudos would have been attached to his handover by a local gang of bounty-seekers or criminals. The country would have been swept anew with rumors that the big hero Saddam was again betrayed by the people he trusted, just as in the war.

B. It was vital to catch his kidnappers unawares so as to make sure Saddam was taken alive. They might well have killed him and demanded the prize for his body. But they made sure he had no means of taking his own life and may have kept him sedated.

C. During the weeks he is presumed to have been in captivity, guerrilla activity declined markedly ? especially in the Sunni Triangle towns of Falluja, Ramadi and Balad - while surging outside this flashpoint region ? in Mosul in the north and Najef, Nasseriya and Hilla in the south. It was important for the coalition to lay hands on him before the epicenter of the violence turned back towards Baghdad and the center of the Sunni Triangle.

The next thing to watch now is not just where and when Saddam is brought to justice for countless crimes against his people and humanity - Sanchez said his interrogation will take ?as long as it takes ? but what happens to the insurgency. Will it escalate or gradually die down?

An answer to this, according to counter-terror sources, was received in Washington nine days before Saddam reached US custody.

It came in the form of a disturbing piece of intelligence that the notorious Lebanese terrorist and hostage-taker Imad Mughniyeh, who figures on the most wanted list of 22 men published by the FBI after 9/11, had arrived in southern Iraq and was organizing a new anti-US terror campaign to be launched in March-April 2004, marking the first year of the American invasion.

For the past 21 years, Mughniyeh has waged a war of terror against Americans, whether on behalf of the Hizballah, the Iranian Shiite fundamentalists, al Qaeda or for himself. The Lebanese arch-terrorist represents for the anti-American forces in Iraq an ultimate weapon.

Saddam?s capture will not turn this offensive aside; it may even bring it forward.

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Orisha Newbie

Orisha

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by xxgrooveericxx

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Are you listening to 560 WQAM, The Neil Rogers Show???

I just heard that on the radio........................:idea:

Nooooooooo. :tongue:

Tyrants are predictable, when they can't win on their own merit!

I'm NOT voting for that rat bastard, that's for sure. Who can we vote for?

it's like picking the lesser of two evils...

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obby Newbie

obby

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by funketeer

A number of questions are raised by the incredibly bedraggled, tired and crushed condition of this once savage, dapper and pampered ruler who was discovered in a hole in the ground on Saturday, December 13:

1. The length and state of his hair indicated he had not seen a barber or even had a shampoo for several weeks.

2. The wild state of his beard indicated he had not shaved for the same period

3. The hole dug in the floor of a cellar in a farm compound near Tikrit was primitive indeed ? 6ft across and 8ft across with minimal sanitary arrangements - a far cry from his opulent palaces.

4. Saddam looked beaten and hungry.

5. Detained with him were two unidentified men, two AK-47 assault guns and a pistol, none of which were used.

6. The hole had only one opening. It was not only camouflaged with mud and bricks ? it was blocked. He could not have climbed out without someone on the outside removing the covering.

7. And most important, $750,000 in 100-dollar notes were found with him ? but no communications equipment of any kind, whether cell phone or even a carrier pigeon for contacting the outside world.

According to analysts, these seven anomalies point to one conclusion: Saddam Hussein was not in hiding; he was a prisoner.

What a fucking joke.

Ask yourself this.

How would you look if you where 65 years old, in hiding for over six months due to the Worlds most advanced military hunting you down, having a price tag on your head of 25 million dollars DEAD or ALIVE. All your close body guards and friends look at you funny considering that the price on your head is 25 million, all your close friends and evil two sons have either been killed or captured. Your family leaves you and deflects to Iran, your have to migrate every six hours from hide out to hide out just to avoid the US Military. All this trauma must be tough at that age. Think about it. Having to hide in whole such as the one that he was found in just goes to show what type of evil people we are dealing with.

I don't know about you but me being 27 years old would look just as bad as that old evil fucker if not even worst.

Conspiracy????

What a joke!!!!!!!!

Usama U Mama....Your next!!!!!!!!!

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marcodavalos Newbie

marcodavalos

Posted
Posted

Indeed glad to see Mr. Hussein was caught inside a "rat" hole in the middle of nowhere.

His looks are of someone defeated.

This just reminds me of when Abimael Guzman, leader of the "Shining Path" , was presented in jail dressed up with a striped jail uniform with a number on his chest. A la cartoons.

The obvious reason is to humillate the son of a bee. To deteriorate his importance on potential followers. It is the right approach, especially when treating "intellectual/brainwashed" movements as the Shining Path, crude Kamer Rouge replica.

The presentation of the tyrant dictator serves for all of us. It indeed humillates him. Well deserved.

My only questions are:

1) Is a political/philosofical movement comparable to a religious/fanatical movement?

2) Neighboring Arab country's public opinion will be the same as in the US?

3) Will Saddam ever become a "victim" or the "tyrant" branding will last forever in the Arab world?

4) Judicial systems only work in democratic societies. Will a trial be ready in Iraq before democratic elections are held?

Food for thought in the near future in order to deal with the Middle East long term reality.

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obby Newbie

obby

Posted
Posted

With all due respect to everyone.

I read the first post again and found it absurd and pathetic.

Too much emotion has been invested by the Bush-haters and war critics to concede they might have been wrong all along. This logic is depressingly misguided. Conspiracy theories are a dime a dozen. Those who dwell on such misguided and illogical theories are destined to be governed by them.

The media led us to believe that Saddam had a sophisticated underground labyrinth of caves and bunkers. They led us to believe that we would lose 5-10 thousand troops trying to take Baghdad. I could go on, but why? Contrary to what the press believes to be a majority public opinion, Americans (in general) do not believe our enemies are stronger than us or that we are incapable of liberating a nation. If any nation can do it, it's America. Repeating illogical theories on a virtual loop does not make them reality. This myth of Saddam has been exposed for what it really was. Granted, those who clung to the false myths instilled by Saddam and his regime now find themselves betrayed. They (the haters) were wrong, AGAIN! Rather than address why and where they(the haters) went wrong, they choose to invest all their time and emotion is trying to justify their failed logic. It's time they looked themselves in the mirror and address their issues objectively. Or, they can just maintain the status quo of hating Bush, doom & gloom, etc.. With all do respect, we've all seen where that strategy has got them. They lost the election in 2000, they lost congress while Republicans kept winning. They lost a record # of governorships(most recently California and New York). They can deny it until their blue in the face, but it is what it is.

In my humble opinion, this is much more than petty politrix. Bush would be just as happy working on his farm in Texas. He obviously does not need the job he's chosen for himself. The motives of his critics clearly revolves around reacquiring power at any cost! The recent leaking of the memos from the Intel Committee are proof of that. The very people who want to oust Bush and run this country have been proven to have politicized America's security for the purpose of their attempt to reacquire the presidency. That alone is repugnant enough to disqualify any of those like minded. Granted, those people would rather focus on how the memos were obtained rather than it's content. This president has been labeled, from the beginning as a dunce. Let's recap, shall we? While campaigning in 1999 and 2000 he warned of a sagging economy and possible recession which not only came true, but has been proven to have been hidden by "cooking of books" by the previous administration. Then there's the corporate scandals which broke under Bush's watch. These scandals ALL occurred during the late 90's. 9/11, Anthrax attacks & the war in Afghanistan and Iraq. This prez. refuses to concede to terrorist and takes the battle to them. He attacks the recession w/ swift accountability for those responsible for the corporate scandals and w/ multiple tax cuts to tax payers and even those who don't pay taxes. He creates a new dept. called HOMELAND SECURITY. He gets a record breaking education bill passed which was almost solely written by his adversary, Ted Kennedy. He gets a Medicare bill passed. He puts Usama on the run and drives the taliban out of Afghanistan. He topples the Saddam regime in lightning speed and w/ minimal casualties. He now has Saddam captured alive to face the Iraq people. Etc...etc...etc..etc..... There is soooo much more to elaborate on but why? I know your mind is not going to change. So be it. I just thought I'd remind you you were wrong and tell you why and how!

In reality, the greatest winner is the Iraqi people and democracy! Bush has from the beginning warned us of this difficult war which will require patience, resolve and determination. Slowly but surely he's being proven right. This brings me to my final thought which is this: Maybe, just maybe, the reason there is so much hatred from the minority on the left is because this prez has not only accomplished more in less than 4 yrs. than the previous admin could in 8, but w/ every success America has, it exposes how truly inadequate and irrelevant the previous leader was. Being that so much emotion has been invested in not only hating Bush, but trying to compare him to Clinton it's obvious which legacy will be remembered and which one will try to be forgotten. I realize this is not music to the ears of the nay Sayers, but like I said before, IT IS WHAT IT IS. How could such a "dunce" run circles around his opponents? What does that say about those elitist who insisted he was this so called "dunce"?

This capture has been a great accomplishment for America, Iraq and the world and should be seen as such. If the political implications prove promising to this prez. and his admin, SO BE IT, but let's not get confused. This is only 1 victory in this new war known as terrorism. It's no surprise there has not been an attack on this soil since 9/11. Logic says it's because rather than sit and wait for the next attack, the war was taken directly to the enemy. Unfortunately, the outspoken minority has positioned themselves so that good news for America becomes bad news for democrats. Sad as it may sound, IT IS WHAT IT IS!

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!

PS: Yes this is a touchy subject for me.

Peace,

OBBY

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mrmatas2277 Newbie

mrmatas2277

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by marcodavalos

My only questions are:

1) Is a political/philosofical movement comparable to a religious/fanatical movement?

2) Neighboring Arab country's public opinion will be the same as in the US?

3) Will Saddam ever become a "victim" or the "tyrant" branding will last forever in the Arab world?

4) Judicial systems only work in democratic societies. Will a trial be ready in Iraq before democratic elections are held?

1) yes...it could be

2) publicly? no...privately? yes...not many Arabs liked this man

3) the tyrant brand will stick

4) good question...i think first they will elect their govt' and then handle Saddam

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sobeton Newbie

sobeton

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by obby

With all due respect to everyone.

I read the first post again and found it absurd and pathetic.

Too much emotion has been invested by the Bush-haters and war critics to concede they might have been wrong all along. This logic is depressingly misguided. Conspiracy theories are a dime a dozen. Those who dwell on such misguided and illogical theories are destined to be governed by them.

The media led us to believe that Saddam had a sophisticated underground labyrinth of caves and bunkers. They led us to believe that we would lose 5-10 thousand troops trying to take Baghdad. I could go on, but why? Contrary to what the press believes to be a majority public opinion, Americans (in general) do not believe our enemies are stronger than us or that we are incapable of liberating a nation. If any nation can do it, it's America. Repeating illogical theories on a virtual loop does not make them reality. This myth of Saddam has been exposed for what it really was. Granted, those who clung to the false myths instilled by Saddam and his regime now find themselves betrayed. They (the haters) were wrong, AGAIN! Rather than address why and where they(the haters) went wrong, they choose to invest all their time and emotion is trying to justify their failed logic. It's time they looked themselves in the mirror and address their issues objectively. Or, they can just maintain the status quo of hating Bush, doom & gloom, etc.. With all do respect, we've all seen where that strategy has got them. They lost the election in 2000, they lost congress while Republicans kept winning. They lost a record # of governorships(most recently California and New York). They can deny it until their blue in the face, but it is what it is.

In my humble opinion, this is much more than petty politrix. Bush would be just as happy working on his farm in Texas. He obviously does not need the job he's chosen for himself. The motives of his critics clearly revolves around reacquiring power at any cost! The recent leaking of the memos from the Intel Committee are proof of that. The very people who want to oust Bush and run this country have been proven to have politicized America's security for the purpose of their attempt to reacquire the presidency. That alone is repugnant enough to disqualify any of those like minded. Granted, those people would rather focus on how the memos were obtained rather than it's content. This president has been labeled, from the beginning as a dunce. Let's recap, shall we? While campaigning in 1999 and 2000 he warned of a sagging economy and possible recession which not only came true, but has been proven to have been hidden by "cooking of books" by the previous administration. Then there's the corporate scandals which broke under Bush's watch. These scandals ALL occurred during the late 90's. 9/11, Anthrax attacks & the war in Afghanistan and Iraq. This prez. refuses to concede to terrorist and takes the battle to them. He attacks the recession w/ swift accountability for those responsible for the corporate scandals and w/ multiple tax cuts to tax payers and even those who don't pay taxes. He creates a new dept. called HOMELAND SECURITY. He gets a record breaking education bill passed which was almost solely written by his adversary, Ted Kennedy. He gets a Medicare bill passed. He puts Usama on the run and drives the taliban out of Afghanistan. He topples the Saddam regime in lightning speed and w/ minimal casualties. He now has Saddam captured alive to face the Iraq people. Etc...etc...etc..etc..... There is soooo much more to elaborate on but why? I know your mind is not going to change. So be it. I just thought I'd remind you you were wrong and tell you why and how!

In reality, the greatest winner is the Iraqi people and democracy! Bush has from the beginning warned us of this difficult war which will require patience, resolve and determination. Slowly but surely he's being proven right. This brings me to my final thought which is this: Maybe, just maybe, the reason there is so much hatred from the minority on the left is because this prez has not only accomplished more in less than 4 yrs. than the previous admin could in 8, but w/ every success America has, it exposes how truly inadequate and irrelevant the previous leader was. Being that so much emotion has been invested in not only hating Bush, but trying to compare him to Clinton it's obvious which legacy will be remembered and which one will try to be forgotten. I realize this is not music to the ears of the nay Sayers, but like I said before, IT IS WHAT IT IS. How could such a "dunce" run circles around his opponents? What does that say about those elitist who insisted he was this so called "dunce"?

This capture has been a great accomplishment for America, Iraq and the world and should be seen as such. If the political implications prove promising to this prez. and his admin, SO BE IT, but let's not get confused. This is only 1 victory in this new war known as terrorism. It's no surprise there has not been an attack on this soil since 9/11. Logic says it's because rather than sit and wait for the next attack, the war was taken directly to the enemy. Unfortunately, the outspoken minority has positioned themselves so that good news for America becomes bad news for democrats. Sad as it may sound, IT IS WHAT IT IS!

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!

PS: Yes this is a touchy subject for me.

Peace,

OBBY

let me guess. you’re a republican... :idea::rolleyes: "Force is all-conquering, but its victories are short-lived.";)
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obby Newbie

obby

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by sobeton

let me guess. you’re a republican... :idea::rolleyes: "Force is all-conquering, but its victories are short-lived.";)

NO!!!!!

I'm an American and it doesn't take much to think logically. I took off the horse blinders a while ago.

History has proven to us that.....

PEACE WILL ALWAYS BE GOVERNED BY FORCE.

Like it or not. It is what it is.

It's not easy being the big kids on the block and if there is one Country that can manage that responsibility...it's the USA.....soon to be other Countries as well. We are not going to carry this responsibility alone anymore. Did we want this title????NO!!!!!but we have come to accept that we are best fit to carry this responsibility.

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sobeton Newbie

sobeton

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by obby

NO!!!!!

I'm an American and it doesn't take much to think logically. I took off the horse blinders a while ago.

History has proven to us that.....

PEACE WILL ALWAYS BE GOVERNED BY FORCE.

Like it or not. It is what it is.

It's not easy being the big kids on the block and if there is one Country that can manage that responsibility...it's the USA.....soon to be other Countries as well. We are not going to carry this responsibility alone anymore. Did we want this title????NO!!!!!but we have come to accept that we are best fit to carry this responsibility.

dictatorships are also governed by force, and history has proven that as well. :idea: we choose to carry the responsibility ourselves. as we continue to distance ourselves further away from the world community. "If you would win a man to your cause, first convince him that you are his sincere friend."
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