More Israeli soldiers refusing to serve in the OT

[kramadas]

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/374325.html

Ya'alon: Refusal letter signatories could be thrown out of army

By Amos Harel and Mazal Mualem, Haaretz Correspondents

Thirteen members of a top commando unit who announced their refusal to serve in the Palestinian areas will be kicked out of the army if they do not back down on their decision, the IDF Chief of Staff said Monday.

The letter - signed by Sayeret Matkal soldiers and officers - was delivered Sunday to the Prime Minister's Office, which refused to comment on the content of the letter.

Ya'alon told Army Radio on Monday that those who signed the letter could be thrown out of the army. "Each one (of the signatories) will be called in to talk to his commander, the s*****ty will be explained to him and he will be given the chance to back down," Ya’alon said. "If he doesn't, he will be thrown out of army reserve duty."

Army spokesman Brigadier General Ruth Yaron said Monday that, although Israel is a democratic country, the reservists should not use the prestigious unit as a platform to express their views.

Among the 13 signatories are nine who still do reserve service in Sayeret Matkal, while the most senior is an officer with the rank of major.

"We say to you today, we will no longer give our hands to the oppressive reign in the territories and the denial of human rights to millions of Palestinians," reads the letter addressed to the prime minister, " and we will no longer serve as a defensive shield for the settlement enterprise."

One of the signatories, who would only give his name as "Moshe," told Israel Radio on Monday that he felt an operation he participated in to track down Palestinian militants in the West Bank served no purpose.

"I saw that nothing changed as a result of the operation and we look much worse than we did a year or two ago," Moshe said. "What should I do, just sit with my arms crossed? ... Or say, 'Gentlemen, I'm not going back there."'

Although Sayeret Matkal - the IDF General Staff's elite special-operations force - is rarely involved in operations in the territories, the announcement carries weight because of the group's standing in Israeli society.

In 1972, Sayeret Matkal commandos, led by former prime minister Ehud Barak, raided a Sabena plane hijacked by Palestinian terrorists. In 1976, the elite troops carried out a daring operation at Entebbe airport in Uganda to rescue some 100 hostages on an Air France plane hijacked by terrorists.

Chairman of the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee Yuval Steinitz said Monday that the phenomenon of refusal emanates from a terrible failure by all of Israel's governments. Israel Radio quoted him as saying that had criminal proceedings been opened against the previous refuseniks, the spread of the refusal phenomenon would have been prevented.

Political figures who served in the elite army unit sharply criticized the announcement. Barak, who served as commander of Sayeret Matkal, called on signers of the letter to "immediately" retract their decision. According to Barak, it was a grave mistake, but "it's not too late correct it, and it's important to do so."

"In a democracy there's no place for refusal because it is the elected government that issues the orders to the army. As much as we are divided over the hesitant and confused policy of Sharon's government which is endangering Israel, it is essential that this battle be waged in the public sphere, and for the army to defend all of us. Every soldier has the right and the obligation to refuse an blatantly illegal order, but I am convinced that the IDF, under Chief of Staff Moshe Ya'alon, would never lend a hand to the giving of blatantly illegal orders to soldiers, including those in Sayeret Matkal."

Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who served in the elite unit, said Sunday that "if people base their military service on their political opinions, be left-winged or right-winged, we won’t have an army or a state left. It is time to stop using military service as a political axe."

MK Matan Vilnai (Labor), a major general in the reserves who served as deputy commander of Sayeret Matkal, also criticized the letter. "Refusal is a phenomenon that must cannot be accepted in any manner. It cannot be denied that we are not speaking of a few isolated instances, but rather a phenomenon that stems from the feeling of lack of purpose in government policy."

"Refusal harms society's strength," said MK Dan Yatom (Labor), a major general in the reserves who served in Sayeret Matkal. "I condemn any form of refusal. No person or group has the right to determine which missions are to be carried out." According to Yatom, "The government of Israel must be attentive to the distress expressed by such quality groups as the pilots and Sayeret Matkal, and to respond appropriately."

Deputy Defense Minister Ze'ev Boim said on Monday "the soldiers infected with this 'leprosy' of refusal must be stripped of their military aura and tried for disobedience and even, I would say, incitement to mutiny. It doesn’t matter if they're pilots or extolled special unit soldiers. I think all of this credit given to elite units…we respect and appreciate all soldiers in uniform, the army marches also on its cooks, mechanics store men, and these people have no right to use their unit to receive a different sort of treatment."

"This phenomenon worries me as a citizen more than as deputy minister of defense," Boim added.

Meretz MK Yossi Sarid said on Monday "as long as the occupation and oppression persist, I suppose that the phenomenon of refusal, which I see as negative one, will become contagious among military units, especially throughout the elite forces."

"The army can enact disciplinary measures against the refuseniks," Sarid added, "The new refuseniks know by now that hard times are ahead for them, they saw the treatment that the pilots received, and yet they nevertheless decided to take a stand, which is a telling sign of their internal conviction."

MK Ophir Pines (Labor) said that in light of the letter, a serious discussion should be held on the issue.

Minister Effi Eitam, Chairman of the National Religious Party, said that he sees the letter as a break in Israeli society and that he expected the wave of refusal to grow.

Meretz MK Roman Bronfman called the letter a brave step intended to save israel from the occupation, while MK Shaul Yahalom (NRP) said that jail was the proper place for the signatories.

The Sayeret letter is the third such public declaration of reservists refusing to serve in the territories since the outset of the current intifada. In early 2002, the "Courage to Refuse" movement released a letter signed by reservist soldiers and officers refusing to serve in the territories, which to date has over 570 signatories. In September of this year, a group of Israel Air Force pilots announced their refusal to carry out air strikes in the territories.

[jamiroguy1]

[jamiroguy1]

**BUMP**

Full text of the letter from the thirteen reservists

To: Prime Minister Ariel Sharon

We, citizens who serve in active reserve duty, soldiers and officers, Sayeret Matkal veterans, have also chosen to join the front guard in the way we have been trained. With grave concern for the future of Israel as a democratic Zionist and Jewish state, and with concern for her moral image – we can no longer stand asside.

We tell you today:

*We shall no longer lend our hand to the subjugation taking place in the territories.

*We shall no longer lend our hand to the quelling of human rights of millions of Palestinians.

*We shall no longer serve as a defense shield for the settlements campaign.

*We shall no longer deface our human image as an army of occupation.

*We shall no longer deny our commitment as fighters in the Israel defense forces.

We fear for the fate of the children of this land, exposed to an evil that is unnecessary, and to which we have lent our hands. We have long transgressed the limits of soldiers, just in their ways, and have become fighters suppressing another nation.

We shall not cross this limit anymore.

We stress and declare: We shall continue to protect the State of Israel and the security of its people from all enemies.

"He who dares – wins."

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article2286.shtml

[djxeno]

Originally posted by jamiroguy1

**BUMP**

Full text of the letter from the thirteen reservists

To: Prime Minister Ariel Sharon

We, citizens who serve in active reserve duty, soldiers and officers, Sayeret Matkal veterans, have also chosen to join the front guard in the way we have been trained. With grave concern for the future of Israel as a democratic Zionist and Jewish state, and with concern for her moral image – we can no longer stand asside.

We tell you today:

*We shall no longer lend our hand to the subjugation taking place in the territories.

*We shall no longer lend our hand to the quelling of human rights of millions of Palestinians.

*We shall no longer serve as a defense shield for the settlements campaign.

*We shall no longer deface our human image as an army of occupation.

*We shall no longer deny our commitment as fighters in the Israel defense forces.

We fear for the fate of the children of this land, exposed to an evil that is unnecessary, and to which we have lent our hands. We have long transgressed the limits of soldiers, just in their ways, and have become fighters suppressing another nation.

We shall not cross this limit anymore.

We stress and declare: We shall continue to protect the State of Israel and the security of its people from all enemies.

"He who dares – wins."

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article2286.shtml

Wow. If only all the Israeli soldiers were that way. i wonder how tribal feels about this.

[g420]

Bunch of traitors, they'll sing a different tune if one of their loved ones gets blown up on a bus by one of these palistinian scumbags

[kramadas]

Originally posted by g420

Bunch of traitors, they'll sing a different tune if one of their loved ones gets blown up on a bus by one of these palistinian scumbags

haha - the typical blind hatred from one remotely distanced from the real thing....

also the kind of hatred on both sides that fuels this whole conflict!

I wish there were more people like these soldiers over there. Maybe then, some real peace could be made.

How do you know these soldiers didn't have loved ones blown up by terrorists? Maybe they're actually smarter than to associate the whole Palestinian people with terrorists.

[g420]

Originally posted by raver_mania

haha - the typical blind hatred from one remotely distanced from the real thing....

also the kind of hatred on both sides that fuels this whole conflict!

I wish there were more people like these soldiers over there. Maybe then, some real peace could be made.

How do you know these soldiers didn't have loved ones blown up by terrorists? Maybe they're actually smarter than to associate the whole Palestinian people with terrorists.

Never be peace until the arabs recognize Israel as a legitimate state, which will never happen, those people are born & bred to hate & racism is an inhereted part of their culture & religion. I'm not just talking about the Israel issue. All over the world, from Pakistan to Africa to Chechnya to the Nation Of Islam here in the US. These people are waging a holy war against modern society & no one sees this.

[marksimons]

never be peace until israel learns that you have to do unto thy neighbour as you wish to be done unto you.

or whatever it was.

I believe that most arabs now do recognise the right of Israel to exist.

the problem is, that it seems israel, at least the actions of it's government, do not seem to recognise the right of palestinians to human rights.

you ever been outside the US g420?

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by raver_mania

I wish there were more people like these soldiers over there. Maybe then, some real peace could be made.

Maybe if Arafat wasn't involved, then real peace would occur...

[marksimons]

if Sharon wasn't leading Israel, things would be better as well...

problem is, like it or lump it, Arafat was elected by the palestinian people.

Sharon is the one really holding back peace in the region.

he is probably a war criminal:

The Indict Sharon Now Campaign is an independent, international initiative to indict and prosecute former Israeli Defense Minister Ariel Sharon for war crimes and crimes against humanity spanning a half-century. These include, most notably, an attack Sharon led as an Israeli military officer on the West Bank village of Qibya in 1953, in which 69 civilians were murdered, and his role as the architect of Israel's brutal 1982 invasion of Lebanon. That invasion led to the deaths of tens of thousands of Lebanese and Palestinian civilians, massive displacement of the civilian population, and culminated in the infamous massacre of civilians in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps in Beirut. The number of victims of this massacre--Palestinians and Lebanese alike--has never been officially documented. Israeli military intelligence estimated that 700 to 800 persons were slaughtered, but others put the count of the dead much higher, up to 3,000 people.

In his autobiography, Warrior, Sharon depicts Arabs as infantile, timorous, and untrustworthy. As one former U.S. official who knows him puts it, Sharon has the same condescending disregard for Arabs that Southern plantation-owners had for blacks. - The Bulldozer rolls on.

A man even many Israelis consider a war criminal.

A man who flies a large Israeli flag and Menorah atop his requisitioned home in the Muslim quarter of the old city of Jerusalem which must be constantly guarded by Israeli troops.

The man who commanded Israel's invasion of Lebanon in 1982 (20,000+ Lebanese civilians dead) and was personally responsible for the Sabra and Shatilla massacres).

A man whose personal history of brutalizing and dispossessing Palestinians goes back to the 1950s,

A man who today as in the past is the main architect of Israel's settlement expansion programs in Jerusalem and throughout the occupied territories.

Ariel Sharon first won fame in the 1950s for his swashbuckling leadership of fierce raids against Arab villages and refugee camps in Jordan and Gaza. After the October war of 1973, and his brilliant success fighting the Egyptians, his soldiers hailed him, "Arik, Arik, King of Israel!" The Lion of God

Born: 1928 in Kfar Malal in the Sharon valley, ten miles from Tel Aviv. This was one of the first Moshav's to be established in Palestine. 1. Family name was Scheinerman, later changed to Sharon.

His first wife was killed in a car accident in the early 1960s, and two years later his nine year old son accidentally killed himself while playing with a gun. Sharon later married his wife's sister Lili, and had two more sons. Lily Sharon died of lung cancer last year [March 2000] at 63. Living sons Omri and Gilead. Grandchildren, Rotem and Danya.

http://www.zpub.com/un/wanted-as.html

[igloo]

Originally posted by marksimons

if Sharon wasn't leading Israel, things would be better as well...

problem is, like it or lump it, Arafat was elected by the palestinian people.

Sharon is the one really holding back peace in the region.

he is probably a war criminal:

http://www.zpub.com/un/wanted-as.html

Why am I not shocked that this is yet another topic where you are seriously misguided, obviously lost, and once again, show that you really do not have a clear understanding and balance of the situation (despite your bullshit rants, diatribes, and "sources")....

Saying Sharon is the one really holding back peace in the region CLEARLY demonstrates you do not have a fucking clue what you are talking about.......as usual

Seriously, all you do is vomit up bullshit.....endlessly.....

Nothing but bullshit.........

[jamiroguy1]

Sharon should really get tried as a war criminal. For those who don't know about the massacres of Sabra and Shatila, you should really read this before you start pointing fingers on who should not be in their elected office.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1779713.stm

An unknown number of Palestinians died in the 40-hour slaughter

[jamiroguy1]

Originally posted by g420

Never be peace until the arabs recognize Israel as a legitimate state, which will never happen, those people are born & bred to hate & racism is an inhereted part of their culture & religion. I'm not just talking about the Israel issue. All over the world, from Pakistan to Africa to Chechnya to the Nation Of Islam here in the US. These people are waging a holy war against modern society & no one sees this.

Very ignorant statement.

[igloo]

Originally posted by jamiroguy1

Very ignorant statement.

Not really (or at least some of it).....

I am not defending Sharon, or some of his policies....but, I think all of you need to seriously check yourselves if you do not recognize what is at the "root" of this issue...

It is about time the "other" side is held accountable for their own failures, instead of blaming everything and anything....

Especially you marksimons, you hypocritical blowhard.....

Take a few moments from your relentless anti-Americanism, and why don't you explore the prevailing and pervasive attitudes, education, and indoctrination about Israel in the Arab and Muslim world....

Remarkable that you are all so easy to paint Sharon (or Israel) with a brush that you are unwilling to apply to the other side, or worse yet, act as apologists or appeasers for reprehensable actions, deplorable culture, and repulsive thinking.....

Remarkable that you are unwilling to explore why Isreal is forced into some behavior, or why and how their thinking as been influenced over time......

Spend some time protesting the Palestinan leadership and their complete failure, how they could care less about peace, and how they could care less about the Palestinian people.....

Protest Hamas and Hezbelloh and Islamic Jihad.....protest their charters........

Protest Arafat and his $1.7 billion dollar net worth.....$1.7 billion dollars

Protest Arab governments who continue to support terrorist groups......they are TERRORISTS.....no gray area, despite your attempts to cloud the issue

Protest Arab and Muslim governmenst who refuse to recognize Israel as a legitimate state......and spare if you think they are, despite even some recent lame statements....anyone who truly believes Israel is recognized is a fool

Protest the edcuation and indoctrination of the Palestinian young, both in religious and standard schools......

Seriously, some of you are seriously misguided, ill-informed, or downright disgusting in your imbalance of this debate.....

This whole situation sickens me, and both sides have mistakes, some more serious than others....

But I find it laughable that some of you choose to make excuses or simply ignore the root problem......especially when at the other side of your hypocritical mouths, you say the U.S. ignores the "roots" of terrorism....

marksimons--spare me your rants and diatribes that usually do not address the topic at hand.......and especially spare me your 'sources" and links....for every one of your links, there is one to counter it, so you are not impressing anyone blowhard....

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by igloo

Protest Arafat and his $1.7 billion dollar net worth.....$1.7 billion dollars

This alone describes the priorities of Arafat and his so called cause..

[jamiroguy1]

I agree with Igloo in that both sides bare responsibility in the death lock the israelis and palestinians have put themselves in. If it means getting rid of Arafat and Sharon too, I'm all for it.

[g420]

the muslims have been attacking jews & christians through out history way before sharon or arafat, stop blaming them & place the blame on islam where it belongs.

[jamiroguy1]

Originally posted by g420

the muslims have been attacking jews & christians through out history way before sharon or arafat, stop blaming them & place the blame on islam where it belongs.

You understand history so well.

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by jamiroguy1

You understand history so well.

Holacaust? They've been blacklisted since before christ...

[djxeno]

Originally posted by g420

the muslims have been attacking jews & christians through out history way before sharon or arafat, stop blaming them & place the blame on islam where it belongs.

:laugh: :laugh:

[marksimons]

muppet.

islam is the newest of the three main religions.

jesus was a palestinian jew.

he attacked the hypocracy in the jewish religion.

he attacked the hypocracy and brutality of the roman empire.

he was a peace activist.

a demonstrator.

an agitator.

an orator.

a great man.

modern christianity has a lot less to do with his teachings than most people seem to think.

jesus warned people about deifying him.

isn't jesus held up as an idol?

saint paul invented the communion and the cross.

saint paul got into big arguments with the twelve desciples about the way to run the church. and that has had implications for the past 2000 years...

you ever heard of the crusades?

historically speaking it has been the christians who have fucked over the muslims more.

the ninteenth and early 20th century saw the british empire and the other european empires messing around in the middle east - the british controlled palestine...

the latter bit of the 20th C saw the west, and america, really help mess up the region.

the problem is the state of israel was not just a reaction to the holcaust, it's a more complex situation than that. the zionist lobby as well as foreign policy considerations had an impact on the idea of the state of israel. the holocaust sealed it.

the british did fuck over the palestinians though.

hands up who has heard of the Balfour declaration of 1917?

the situation is a fucking state.

on christmas day there was an israel helicopter attack in gaza or somewhere, incidentally it is the most densly populated area on earth, how many knew that, and the attack killed a hamas dude and injured others, and may have killed civilians.

40 mins later suicide bombing in israel.

cause and effect...

israel was created by foriegn powers, it would not exist if it was not for the british and americans.

I have my own personal issues with an overtly religious state being set up in the manner israel was, but that's for another thread...

there needs to be peace.

but how can there when sharon does stuff like build that fucking expensive wall that divides and conquers...

here is the balfour declaration of 1917:

November 2nd, 1917

Dear Lord Rothschild,

I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely,

Arthur James Balfour

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/balfour.htm

---

let's look at the most imporant bit:

"nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,"

do we feel that israel has done this?

here's a list of UN resolutions about israel, I believe that some of them are non binding, i.e. not as enforcable as the saddam ones which he allegedly flouted, and the ceasefire breaking is a tenuous one, but again that's a diff thread, anyway, list if israel UN stuff:

Here is a short list of UN Resolutions, 1955-1992:

* Resolution 106: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid";

* Resolution 111: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people";

* Resolution 127: ". . . 'recommends' Israel suspend its 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem";

* Resolution 162: ". . . 'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions";

* Resolution 171: ". . . determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria";

* Resolution 228: ". . . 'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control";

* Resolution 237: ". . . 'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees";

* Resolution 248: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan";

* Resolution 250: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem";

* Resolution 251: ". . . 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250";

* Resolution 252: ". . . 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital";

* Resolution 256: ". . . 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation"";

* Resolution 259: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation";

* Resolution 262: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport";

* Resolution 265: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan";

* Resolution 267: ". . . 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem";

* Resolution 270: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon";

* Resolution 271: ". . . 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem";

* Resolution 279: ". . . 'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon";

* Resolution 280: ". . . 'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon";

* Resolution 285: ". . . 'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon";

* Resolution 298: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem";

* Resolution 313: ". . . 'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon";

* Resolution 316: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon";

* Resolution 317: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon";

* Resolution 332: ". . . 'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon";

* Resolution 337: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty";

* Resolution 347: ". . . 'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon";

* Resolution 425: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon";

* Resolution 427: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon';

* Resolution 444: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces";

* Resolution 446: ". . . 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention";

* Resolution 450: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon";

* Resolution 452: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories";

* Resolution 465: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program";

* Resolution 467: ". . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon";

* Resolution 468: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return";

* Resolution 469: ". . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians";

* Resolution 471: ". . . 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention";

* Resolution 476: ". . . 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'";

* Resolution 478: ". . . 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'";

* Resolution 484: ". . . 'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors";

* Resolution 487: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility";

* Resolution 497: ". . . 'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith";

* Resolution 498: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon";

* Resolution 501: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops";

* Resolution 509: ". . . 'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon";

* Resolution 515: ". . . 'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in";

* Resolution 517: ". . . 'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon";

* Resolution 518: ". . . 'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon";

* Resolution 520: ". . . 'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut";

* Resolution 573: ". . . 'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters;

* Resolution 587: ". . . 'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw";

* Resolution 592: ". . . 'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops";

* Resolution 605: ". . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians;

* Resolution 607: ".. . . 'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention;

* Resolution 608: ". . . 'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians";

* Resolution 636: ". . . 'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians;

* Resolution 641: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians;

* Resolution 672: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount;

* Resolution 673: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations;

* Resolution 681: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians;

* Resolution 694: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return;

* Resolution 726: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians; and

* Resolution 799: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.

At the same time that Washington joined or acquiesced in these sixty-nine resolutions, it used its veto twenty-nine separate times to prevent the Security Council from passing resolutions against Israel. The following are the resolutions vetoed by the US during the period of September 1972 to May 1990 to protect Israel from council criticism:

* " . . . condemned Israel's attack against Southern against southern Lebanon and Syria. . . ";

* " . . . affirmed the rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination, statehood and equal protections. . . ";

* " . . . condemned Israel's air strikes and attacks in southern Lebanon and its murder of innocent civilians. . . ";

* " . . . called for self-determination of Palestinian people";

* " . . . deplored Israel's altering of the status of Jerusalem, which is recognized as an international city by most world nations and the United Nations . . . ";

* " . . . affirmed the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people . . . ";

* " . . . endorsed self-determination for the Palestinian people . . . ";

* " . . . demanded Israel's withdrawal from the Golan Heights";

* " . . . condemned Israel's mistreatment of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip and its refusal to abide by the Geneva convention protocols of civilized nations. . . ";

* " . . . condemned an Israeli soldier who shot eleven Moslem worshippers at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount near Al-Aqsa Mosque in the Old City of Jerusalem. . . ";

* " . . . urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its invasion of Lebanon . . . ";

* " . . . urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its invasion of Beirut. . . ";

* " . . . urged cutoff of economic aid to Israel if it refused to withdraw from its occupation of Lebanon. . . ";

* " . . . condemned continued Israeli settlements in occupied territories in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, denouncing them as an obstacle to peace. . . ";

* " . . . deplores Israel's brutal massacre of Arabs in Lebanon and urges its withdrawal. . . ";

* " . . . condemned Israeli brutality in southern Lebanon and denounced the Israeli 'Iron Fist' policy of repression. . .";

* " . . . denounced Israel's violation of human rights in the occupied territories. . . ";

* " . . . deplored Israel's violence in southern Lebanon...";

* " . . . deplored Israel's activities in occupied Arab East Jerusalem that threatened the sanctity of Muslim holy sites";

* " . . . condemned Israel's hijacking of a Libyan passenger airplane. . . ";

* " . . . deplored Israel's attacks against Lebanon and its measures and practices against the civilian population of Lebanon. . . ";

* " . . . called on Israel to abandon its policies against the Palestinian intifada that violated the rights of occupied Palestinians, to abide by the Fourth Geneva Conventions, and to formalize a leading role for the United Nations in future peace negotiations. . . ";

* " . . . urged Israel to accept back deported Palestinians, condemned Israel's shooting of civilians, called on Israel to uphold the Fourth Geneva Convention, and called for a peace settlement under UN auspices. . . ";

* " . . . condemned Israel's . . incursion into Lebanon. . . ";

* " . . deplored Israel's . . commando raids on Lebanon. . . ";

* " . . . deplored Israel's repression of the Palestinian intifada and called on Israel to respect the human rights of the Palestinians. . . ";

* " . . . deplored Israel's violation of the human rights of the Palestinians. . . ";

* " . . . demanded that Israel return property confiscated from Palestinians during a tax protest and allow a fact-finding mission to observe Israel's crackdown on the Palestinian intifada . . . "; and

* " . . . called for a fact-finding mission on abuses against Palestinians in Israeli-occupied lands. . . ";

In the General Assembly, where no nation has veto power and resolutions are usually adopted by a simple majority, the scope and number of resolutions passed against Israel have been even greater. The assembly has repeatedly condemned Israel's occupation of Arab land, its attacks on Lebanon, its violations of the Human Rights of Palestinians under occupation, its violations of the Fourth Geneva Convention, its claim to Jerusalem as its unified capital, its relations with South Africa, and its nuclear program.

---

and here's some stuff from some more israeli soldiers, this time air force pilots:

---

For two months, a rebel group of Israeli Black Hawk helicopter and F-16 fighter pilots has been denounced as traitors for saying they will no longer bomb Palestinian cities.

Until now they have maintained a resolute silence on their motives, preferring to limit their criticism of Ariel Sharon's war to a letter signed by 27 reserve and active duty pilots refusing to carry out what they described as illegal orders, and denouncing the occupation as eating at the moral fabric of Israel.

Now, having been thrown out of the air force, they are talking publicly about what brought members of the most revered branch of the Israeli military to make an unprecedented challenge to the handling of the conflict with the Palestinians.

"I served more than seven years as a pilot," said Captain Alon R, who, like all the younger pilots, hopes to return to combat flying and so declines to use his full name in order to retain his security clearance. "In the beginning, we were pilots who believed our country would do all it could to achieve peace. We believed in the purity of our arms and that we did all we could to prevent unnecessary loss of life.

"Somewhere in the last few years it became harder and harder to believe that is the case."

The line was crossed for most of the pilots with the dropping of the one-tonne bomb last year on the home of a Hamas military leader, Salah Shehade, killing him and 14 of his family, mostly children.

One captain described the bombing as deliberate killing, murder even. Another called it state terrorism, though some colleagues swiftly stomped on that interpretation. But they all agreed that the attack sowed the doubts that resulted a year later in the letter that sent shockwaves through the Israeli military.

"The Shehade incident was a red light for us, a final warning," said Capt Alon R. "With Shehade I began to re-evaluate my beliefs. We killed 14 innocent people, nine of them children. After my commander gave an interview in which he said he sleeps well at night and his men can do the same. Well, I can't. We refused to see it as an innocent mistake."

Capt Assaf L, who served as a pilot for 15 years until sacked for signing the letter, had similar doubts.

"You don't have to be a genius to know that the destruction from a one-tonne bomb is massive, so someone up there made a decision to drop it knowing it would destroy buildings," he said. "Someone took the decision to kill innocent people. This is us being terrorists. This is vengeance."

Lieutenant-Colonel Avner Raanan is among the most respected pilots to have signed the letter. He served for 27 years and was awarded one of Israel's highest military decorations in 1994. "If you look at the past three years, you see that, if we had a suicide bombing, the Israeli air force made a big operation in which civilians were killed, and that looks to innocent eyes like revenge," he said.

"You hear it in the streets of Israel; people want revenge. But we should not behave like that. We are not a mafia."

More than 30 pilots have now endorsed the letter refusing to fly bombing raids on Palestinian cities, although four retracted, one an El Al pilot threatened with dismissal, and another a reserve pilot who lost his civilian job.

At its core, the letter questions the legality of the "targeted assassinations" that have claimed the lives of more civilian bystanders than their Hamas, Islamic Jihad and al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade targets. In October, 14 civilians were killed when the air force fired missiles at a car in Gaza's Nuseirat refugee camp.

"Is it legitimate to take F-15's and helicopters designed to destroy enemy tanks, and use them against cars and houses in one of the most heavily populated places in the world?" Capt Alon R asked.

"Because of the terrorism, we have become blinded by the blood on our own faces. We cannot see that on the other side, beside the terrorists, is a whole nation of innocent people. It's important that we recognize that, and that, as military people, we say that."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1203-07.htm

[igloo]

Originally posted by marksimons

As usual, a predictable avoidance by you, and a one-sided post.

You are a blowhard.

[normalnoises]

And your posts aren't one sided?

Originally posted by igloo

As usual, a predictable avoidance by you, and a one-sided post.

You are a blowhard.

As usual, a predictable retort by you. Especially when you can no longer defend your words after you are disproven. You are a misguided clown who can't admit to your own flaws. You are drowning in a pool of your own ignorance and racist hatred.

Again you have nothing to contribute. Stop posting.

Jerkoff.

[normalnoises]

Originally posted by g420

the muslims have been attacking jews & christians through out history way before sharon or arafat, stop blaming them & place the blame on islam where it belongs.

Spoken like a true zionistic kike.

[marksimons]

did you know of the balfour declaration before I posted it igloo?

oh and someone look at the 12th amendment thing, it really is more interesting than it sounds :-)