What Grade do you give the club scene this year in Mia

[marcodavalos]

I reiterate your pessimism bro. You are now in NJ, gain some fresh cold air, and gather your thoughts. It has to do with personality. I believe that, at this point of your life, you are ready to chill at lounges til 2 am, max.

What would the mighty Saleen do in Miami for him to leave his granpa feeling? Please, exclude classics to 4 times a year.

Ball on your court.

[Guest saleen351]

Originally posted by marcodavalos

I reiterate your pessimism bro. You are now in NJ, gain some fresh cold air, and gather your thoughts. It has to do with personality. I believe that, at this point of your life, you are ready to chill at lounges til 2 am, max.

What would the mighty Saleen do in Miami for him to leave his granpa feeling? Please, exclude classics to 4 times a year.

Ball on your court.

If I were rich, i'd fly every weekend to tempts... I'm not retired from clubbing, I just retired from clubbing that sucks. Old space and current tempts is where it's at. NYC is where it's at. But miami is NOT where it's at. You fail to see my wisdom in classics. But any good dj will tell you, and i'll quote mr lp, "every 3 years a new crop of clubbers come along" well i tend to agree with him, but if house has been popular since at least 1990, that gives us around 14 years of choons that have been played. If i played a track from 1993, how many would know the track and know what year it came out? Maybe, 2 people in a club would know. Those tracks were so good those years you can play tracks that all came out prior to 1991, and everyone would think it's new, except for the old school peeps.

I bet you a million dollars that aerosmith plays their old stuff as well as their new stuff. it's done for a reason, and the younger crowd doesn't know most of those songs are from the 1970s.

djs that fail to play 25% classics are doing nothing but wasting my fucking time.. I can hear every track they play by every dj on earth and on top of that I have 85% of those tracks, not by downloading indivdual tracks, but by live sets. Perfect example is oscar and cue. Its the same shit! Whats the fucking point going out to see them? Tsettos will play the 25% classics and mix it up. all the nj jocks do it. most of the nyc jocks do it too. miami jocks are scared.

[marcodavalos]

Originally posted by saleen351

If I were rich, i'd fly every weekend to tempts... I'm not retired from clubbing, I just retired from clubbing that sucks. Old space and current tempts is where it's at. NYC is where it's at. But miami is NOT where it's at. You fail to see my wisdom in classics. But any good dj will tell you, and i'll quote mr lp, "every 3 years a new crop of clubbers come along" well i tend to agree with him, but if house has been popular since at least 1990, that gives us around 14 years of choons that have been played. If i played a track from 1993, how many would know the track and know what year it came out? Maybe, 2 people in a club would know. Those tracks were so good those years you can play tracks that all came out prior to 1991, and everyone would think it's new, except for the old school peeps.

I bet you a million dollars that aerosmith plays their old stuff as well as their new stuff. it's done for a reason, and the younger crowd doesn't know most of those songs are from the 1970s.

djs that fail to play 25% classics are doing nothing but wasting my fucking time.. I can hear every track they play by every dj on earth and on top of that I have 85% of those tracks, not by downloading indivdual tracks, but by live sets. Perfect example is oscar and cue. Its the same shit! Whats the fucking point going out to see them? Tsettos will play the 25% classics and mix it up. all the nj jocks do it. most of the nyc jocks do it too. miami jocks are scared.

There is exactly my point. We all know you like classics. Thru reading several message boards from all over I have concluded you are in a very selective minority.

Miami is the world capital of electronic music. You fail to realize that music evolves, just as anything else in life.

Just to throw you a few additions to our scene this year ...

Nerve, Maze, NV ... Coming soon Nocturnal, Crobar 24, a revamped Level ...

Top Djs in the world coming to town. Even Your boy DT was brought down by Space (1st time I've seen his name since 1999's Groovejet for WMC) ...

The economy has hit everyone ... hence less leisure spending. This means less clubbers.

The whole 911 and the war has taken the highrollers away from Miami ... more than anything else.

The whole industry is shaking, not only Miami.

What is your solution then. Throw classics. What else? Book DT ... what else? Bring down a few NYC DJs what else?

Probably your answer is ITS OVA ... Electronic Music is OVA ...

Then what? ... hip hop and Sinatra at home?

It is easy to criticize. Few have the creativity to bring something new or the balls to fight for it.

Enlighten us Saleen, please. It's X-mas.

[pod]

Originally posted by marcodavalos

Miami is the world capital of electronic music. You fail to realize that music evolves, just as anything else in life.

Just to throw you a few additions to our scene this year ...

Nerve, Maze, NV ... Coming soon Nocturnal, Crobar 24, a revamped Level ...

Sometimes these evolutions aren't perfect though...Maze and NV are both tripe, but then again, it comes to survival of the fittest...the best thing they can do right now is close, both are dead weight...Nerve is shaking out of it's funk, and I'm sure that Nocturnal, whatever they call crobar in downtown, and Mansion will surprise us all.

[mrjoebudious]

Taking a step back, looking at The Miami scene as an outsider from say, Iowa, I would give Miami an A+. Imagine having club ignorance! Imagine just moved here and going out to clubs.

This place is the shit!!!

Parties until 4/5 am at clubs, afterhours if you want them, hot women everywhere, cool "techno" music playing (keep in mind the ignorance is bliss analogy here) and freaks everywjere (again, I'm from Iowa here). Do you see the reason for an A+/

Don't forget this city is the shit!! I love this place.

Now as a music/vibe/attitude snob, I personally rate the scene by categories. Not one single grade without looking at all the qualities. Women A+,

freedom to party A+,

Club choices A (allthough I feel most suck, there are at least 40 to chose from. How many cities can say that?),

Club attitude D (Always hated stupid door attitude),

Sound systems B (many types to chose from, many played too loud),

DJ's B (again, I am a snob here,

Music Conference A+ (my favorite week of my life, every year),

Local scene D- (no local feeling like I used to have in St Pete, maybe city is too big, not feeling a core to the "scene",

Club quality D (Most clubs suck here, but I'm glad they are here),

Taste C (people here are followers)

So let's see what equals

4.1+4.1+4+1+3+3+4.1+.9+1+2=27.2 /10 = 2.72 or B-

Add the weather and the topless beaches for extra credit to Give it a B

Oh yeah, add I make a living in this scene for extra credit

Move to a B+

Add the fact that Rain Nightclub settled our law suit.

God, I love my attorney.

Move my year to an

A

So, in closing, I could talk all kinds of shit about the "scene" right now. Its all cycles people. Be patient, when that next wave comes in, I'll be ready to ride that one, hopefully, to my retirement.

And as a shameless promoter

NEW YEARS EVE

Aquabooty/ Back Door Bamby New Years!!

w/

D H M with live percussion by Sammy Figueroa

Larry Tee (Big electro cat from NYC)

W I T (D>A>T> electro synth chicks a go-go)

and more dj's

SOHO lounge

Design District

Miami

[CHRles]

Originally posted by saleen351

If I were rich, i'd fly every weekend to tempts... .

Oh yeah? Well if I were rich I'd fly every month to see Digweed play in London, to Berlin to see PVD, to New York to see Tenaglia play, etc. I'd also open up a few clubs of my own, give money to the needy, and a million other things.

Whats your point about being rich here? Miami sucks b/c you're not rich, and can't fly out every weekend during the summer to see your favorite DJ?

Listen, you're the one who keeps hyping up Ft. Lauderdale, which is part of the South FL scene. You wanted Classics, and you've already gotten it several times this year in both Miami and Laudy. Your wishes came true!

All of your New York DJs have played in Miami this past year, and they all seem to enjoy Miami.

As for New Jersey, you really think Tiesto, PVD, Digweed, Cox, Lawler, and all of the other so called "Euro-Trash" DJs wouldn't pack them in over there? If they were playing on the same night as Tsettos or Devito who would have the bigger crowd?

But nevermind that, why start some unnecessary drama? Why don't you ask the people in Jersey how they rate Miami?

Go ahead, we'll wait.

[marcodavalos]

Originally posted by pod

Sometimes these evolutions aren't perfect though...Maze and NV are both tripe, but then again, it comes to survival of the fittest...the best thing they can do right now is close, both are dead weight...Nerve is shaking out of it's funk, and I'm sure that Nocturnal, whatever they call crobar in downtown, and Mansion will surprise us all.

I meant Miami being the host of WMC. Productions are coming out left and right. This alone puts Miami way ahead of the game. Let alone different genres which are finally being represented in Miami, such as tech house and techno, the flame alive in deep house. This is all evolution of a scene.

Does this happen from one day to another? Of course not. Miami was inundated with trance, then house and the tribal sound. Those two are the biggest and strongest in our scene and in most scenes. The established clubs present it to us weeekly. With the best talent both local and international.

Locally you have many, but many talented local DJs. Before the scene was reduced to less than a handful of clubs (Space, Crobar, Spin, Level). Today you have: Space, Crobar, Level, Opium, Nerve, NV, Maze, Privilege (my BAD for not listing it b4), Nocturnal, Crobar 24.

Dan, my point is simple. We have touched the rock bottom in Miami already. I doubt that the clubbing base will reduce any further. The economy should start showing its improvements in the pockets of people soon. This doesn't happen from one day to another. It is gradual. Leisure spending is the first to stop. Moreso when there is uncertainty in the near future, as we lived after 911. Don't forget it was the 1st time we felt a threat in this country.

Many of you know I have lived in Sobe for many years. I had direct interaction with locals and tourist alike, who saw Sobe as a clubbing mecca. Tourists from all over the world would come to Miami. They shopped plenty of clubwear, to go to the likes of Groovejet, Liquid, Shadow ... afterwards to Space, Crobar, Level. We lost a huge chunk of those clubbers. So many Europeans regular clubbers (not talking about VIPs here). 911 and the war in Iraq stopped all this. Locals suffered because Miami Beach is a tourist oriented economy. US tourists also stopped coming. Our economy made them cut their leisure travel, therefore we were hit from all sides.

Crossing out NV is your opinion. Their Fridays afterhours is a sign of how things can work for them. Crossing out Maze is also drastic. The most important part of any business venture is the initial investment. Both opened in difficult times, but opened at least. That is why I mentioned before, you need people with balls. Just to give you a hypothetical scenario ... what would happen to Maze Saturdays if someone like Danny Tenaglia lands there as a resident? Things just don't happen all of a sudden. It takes work and preparing the conditions for it to happen.

Critics are good, only and only if you can give solutions. For every one of us that just sees things pessimistically, there are others with an optimistic view. Who of the two you think will make our scene move forward?

[CHRles]

That is definitely another good point Marco.

I think it's been difficult for the Techno scene to develop in part b/c there's usually an evolutionary process for clubbers. Saleen you yourself brought up that every 3 years a new club generation comes into the picture. We've even seen some of these young people join this very board. If most of Miami's clubbers have to wait till they're 21 to see the big House and Trance names then by the time enough of them are ready to support a Techno club, or other genres, they are already out of the scene.

It's too bad Miami's club owners don't collaborate more with Ft. Lauderdale's clubs. With Space, NV, and soon to open Nocturnal, and Crobar, an interesting solution might pop up....bring up the most famous DJs to play at an 18+ club in Laudy from midnight to 2 AM, and have them play at a Miami 21+ club after 3 AM on the same night. That way the younger crowd that buys and talks about these DJs will have a real chance to see good music without fiending to drive a million miles away, and after 2 AM a local South FL will get a chance to build a fanbase. That can have a major positive effect on Miami within a year or two as the new generation of clubbers turning 21 will be more ready to open up to other sounds while still enjoying the most popular obvious DJs. The same can be said for West Palm Beach.

I also thought NV's idea to bring Oakenfold for 2 nights, one for 18+, and one for 21+, was a good one. We know clubs make a lot of money off alcohol, but they also make good money charging higher than average admission prices for big DJs. Add to that the fact that not all of the 21+ crowd can go out on a Saturday night, which means some people were still purchasing alcohol at this event.

And as much as you guys might not get it, I think Party 93.1's midweek parties are important as well. They're playing the same records they play in regular rotation to get the more mainstream crowd to go out to a Dance night. This may lead some of those attending these parties to later want to try a Dance night with less familiar tunes. Think about it, you need to somewhat bridge the gap between the more mainstream crowd and the less mainstream one in order for certain nights to survive.

[digital7]

Originally posted by marcodavalos

There is exactly my point. We all know you like classics. Thru reading several message boards from all over I have concluded you are in a very selective minority.

Miami is the world capital of electronic music. You fail to realize that music evolves, just as anything else in life.

Just to throw you a few additions to our scene this year ...

Nerve, Maze, NV ... Coming soon Nocturnal, Crobar 24, a revamped Level ...

Top Djs in the world coming to town. Even Your boy DT was brought down by Space (1st time I've seen his name since 1999's Groovejet for WMC) ...

The economy has hit everyone ... hence less leisure spending. This means less clubbers.

The whole 911 and the war has taken the highrollers away from Miami ... more than anything else.

The whole industry is shaking, not only Miami.

What is your solution then. Throw classics. What else? Book DT ... what else? Bring down a few NYC DJs what else?

Probably your answer is ITS OVA ... Electronic Music is OVA ...

Then what? ... hip hop and Sinatra at home?

It is easy to criticize. Few have the creativity to bring something new or the balls to fight for it.

Enlighten us Saleen, please. It's X-mas.

God Almighty has come down and shined the light. Preach on brutha Marco, preach on!

[marcodavalos]

Originally posted by digital7

God Almighty has come down and shined the light. Preach on brutha Marco, preach on!

[digital7]

Originally posted by marcodavalos

[pod]

Well, I'm for a diversity of clubs, but if a club is being mismanaged out the wazoo like Maze and NV, it's just deadweight, and slowing down the scene as a whole...the promoters, bartenders, and DJs could be at a better venue, where they will be properly compensated for their time and services, and more inclined to do a better job.

Half the issue with this town is the whole "let's open up a club on South Beach and get laid" attitude...these places go on for awhile, giving the town a bad rap, and so forth...I'm out of town right now, and a lot of people I talk to think that the Beach is a trashy hellhole. It's not, but the public perception is unfortunately tainted by some of the clubs on the 600 block, shifty operations, and bullshit parties. We've got to work to change that, and if that means hosing down a few lesser venues, I'm all for it. I'd rather have 5 excellent venues than 50 mediocre ones any day of the week. Unfortunately, Miami Beach seems to be 3 excellent venues and 20 mediocre hellholes at the moment...

Unfortunately, the Beach has competition now...Downtown is shaping up, with Space, Nocturnal, whatever crobar's gonna call 142 NE 11th St, and an unnamed party has bought the old firehouse-looking building across the street from Gold Rush (there's a venue for you...hehe) and the plan is to open a top-40ish type of place...and you have places in Broward coming forth, both from a musical perspective, and a lets-go-get-wasted standpoint...nevermind the political atmosphere is bullshit on Miami Beach, as well.

[Guest saleen351]

Originally posted by CHRles

That is definitely another good point Marco.

It's too bad Miami's club owners don't collaborate more with Ft. Lauderdale's clubs. With Space, NV, and soon to open Nocturnal, and Crobar, an interesting solution might pop up....bring up the most famous DJs to play at an 18+ club in Laudy from midnight to 2 AM, and have them play at a Miami 21+ club after 3 AM on the same night. That way the younger crowd that buys and talks about these DJs will have a real chance to see good music without fiending to drive a million miles away, and after 2 AM a local South FL will get a chance to build a fanbase.

.

well we were so very close to pulling that off. Dade was working on that exact same deal with oakenfold. It fell threw, but it would have been great. Thus why i like dade, the guy doesn't think inside the box like the space crew who chugs along with the same crap. There must be more to the scene then lawler and tiesto.

By the way, I think you guys are way off on 90% of what you think but to quote dade again "at least you have an opinion of the scene whether wrong or right"

[diegonyc]

i give it an A one week out of the year.

[lolahotass]

Hmmm

I'd say a C for Miami.

I don't go out like I used to, but I still get out ocassionally and enjoy myself. I'd rather have SoBe/Miami than be living in bumfuck Iowa with zero scene. Looking forward to Mansion opening up and the other new clubs Miami is going to offer... Also look forward to checking out the techno party at Privledge.

Ft Laudy gets an A - due to effort. Only MIA and Karma Lounge for bringing good tunes to the north. Keep it rockin'

[mp3some]

Many good points all through out the thread...

I personally believe that Miami IS a World Class Destination when it comes to electronic dance music and clubbing alike. To undermine our significance in the global scene is just plain IGNORANCE. Aside from the fact that we get almost every dj in the top 100 list by DJ Mag.. (which could be argued to be a popularity poll, but nonetheless an indicator of exposure, and achievement on the scene); we have a very long list of breakthru talent; the local group of nubreeds, that are taking sounds that are far less popular and bringing them forward with their own style; including even those locals (eg. the murk boys) who choose not to stick to the plain 'underground' sounds are playing their part in adding A LOT of value to the scene.

In a perfect world, every time you choose to go out it would be a perfect evening, with the right amount of people, of just the right demographics, with the right type of music and just that good favorite dj playing at that oh, so convenient and comfortable venue.... BUT even tho we DONT live in a perfect world, we still get to hear almost every upper tier dj for almost every genre and subgenre there is out there... Sure, sometimes the sound system is whack, or the club is almost empty, or too packed, or the management is greedy, or stupid and whatever..

The point here is that the scene in Miami has everything to offer, and barely anyone to appreciate it. I have been able to hear almost every dj I’d hoped for, I have enjoyed an enormous variety of sounds that I like listening to, from the mainstream space house, to the deepest of house to breaks, to progressive, to techno to trance and back.. over and over…. I can choose to go out ANY weekend and have a musical journey almost anywhere. Many of those who know me, know that I am a true follower of gooood music, whatever the 'name' of the sub genre is; and that I don’t care much for the venue.. because its not the channel; its the message that matters the most..

I am all about criticism, but CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.. the type that will actually yield some positive results. Sure, we can all sit here and whine and bitch about how bad the scene has been, and how this promoter fucked up or how bad it is compared to ny or nj and all that shit... OR we can continue to contribute substantially to the scene and continue showing support for those that are carrying it forward at each and every level of this industry's food chain week in and week out.

For all the good times I’ve had all year that by far out weigh all the garbage we’ve had to go through, including drama and scams, and mishaps and all… I give our local scene a solid:

B

Lets hope the more positive socio-economic outlook for 2004 changes things for the better, and brings the crowds and the $$ we've seen so scarce this year. I'm sure it will benefit everyone.

Of course for one week out the year we get to be in heaven, and that was not part of the rating… that week is a complte triple A+!!

SO, That's my 2 cents. To each their own…

Peace!

Mp3.-

[memorex]

Im gonna have to give it a C.

Too many letdowns...

2004 will be bettah!