the reality

[pattbateman]

In Poll, Most Oppose Gay Marriage

WILL LESTER

Associated Press

WASHINGTON - A majority of Americans say they don't want laws in their states that would legalize same-sex marriages, according to a poll taken after the Massachusetts Supreme Court ruling in favor of such marriages.

The Massachusetts high court, in an advisory opinion, said last Wednesday that gays are entitled to nothing less than marriage and that civil unions will not suffice. The opinion could set the stage for the nation's first legally sanctioned same-sex weddings by the spring.

In polling conducted by the National Annenberg Election Survey, people said by a 2-1 margin - 60 percent to 31 percent - that they oppose any similar law legalizing same-sex marriage in their states.

Still, they were cool to the idea of a federal constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriages.

In the poll, 49 percent of those polled were opposed to such an amendment, while 42 percent favored it.

Those results suggest gay marriage could be a tricky issue for candidates this election year.

The White House is still reviewing the issue, President Bush's spokesman said Monday. Some conservative groups have been strongly encouraging the president to get involved.

"If activist judges continue to try to redefine marriage, without regard to the voice of the people, then the only alternative will be a constitutional process," said spokesman Scott McClellan.

When asked how long the White House review would last, he said, "I don't know that I'd put any arbitrary timetable on it."

Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry, the front-runner for the Democratic Party's presidential nomination, said last week: "I believe and have fought for the principle that we should protect the fundamental rights of gay and lesbian couples - from inheritance to health benefits. I believe the right answer is civil unions. I oppose gay marriage and disagree with the Massachusetts court's decision."

The Annenberg poll of 814 adults was conducted Feb. 5-8 and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

[normalnoises]

Poll finds support formarriage or civil unions

By Shawn Regan

Staff Writer

As the gay-marriage debate builds toward Wednesday's showdown in the Legislature, the people of the state continue to favor some form of legal recognition for homosexual couples, according to the first statewide poll since the Supreme Judicial Court issued its advisory opinion that the state's constitution guarantees nothing short of same-sex marriage.

More than three-fourths of 501 adults randomly surveyed for the second Bay State Poll by Merrimack College's Center for Public Opinion Research said they support allowing either civil unions or marriage for gay couples -- with 43 percent favoring civil unions and 33 percent supporting gay marriage. Eighteen percent opposed any legal recognition.

Support for civil unions was up from 38 percent in a poll by the college in mid-November, while support for gay marriage was down from 37 percent. However, the shift away from gay marriage was within the poll's margin of error.

The latest telephone poll was conducted between Jan. 28 and Feb. 5, the day after the controversial court decision. The margin of error for the poll is plus or minus 4.75 percent, said pollster Russell Mayer, director of the center.

Ron Crews, president of the anti-gay-marriage Massachusetts Family Institute, said he does not believe the findings.

"If you ask people whether they think marriage should be defined as a union between a man and a woman, you're going to see a very strong degree of support," he said. "It's all about how you ask the question."

The poll asked respondents to choose between not legally recognizing homosexual couples in any way; legally recognizing the civil union of homosexual couples, but not calling the unions marriages; or legally recognizing the marriage of homosexual couples.

Crews said in states that put the issue on the ballot, polls on the eve of the election showed the vote would be close. But when ballots were cast, voters overwhelmingly rejected giving gays the right to marry.

Joshua Friedes, advocacy director for the pro-gay-marriage Freedom to Marry Coalition, said the poll shows even Roman Catholics are rejecting the church hierarchy's stand against gay marriage.

"This is yet another piece of information that proves the people of Massachusetts don't want to discriminate," Friedes said.

The poll showed opinion was sharply divided according to religion, age, gender, level of education and political affiliation.

Of 250 Roman Catholics surveyed, 27 percent said they support gay marriage, while 47 percent said they preferred allowing civil unions and 20 percent were opposed to any legal recognition for same-sex couples.

The breakdown for the 105 who identified themselves as Protestant was about the same: 22 percent for gay marriage, 50 percent for civil unions and 22 percent against legal recognition.

But those who said religion was very important in their lives were far less likely to support gay marriage -- only 20 percent. That compares to 58 percent of those who said religion was not very important.

Of the 57 people who said they were either atheist or agnostic, 59 percent said they support gay marriage.

Democrats were more likely to support gay marriage than Republicans -- 39 percent to 19 percent. Republicans were more likely than Democrats to oppose any legal recognition -- 26 percent to 14 percent.

Just over half of the respondents ages 18 to 34 supported gay marriage, compared to 31 percent of those age 35 to 44 and 29 percent of people 45 to 54 years old. Support for gay marriage dropped to 22 percent among those 55 or older.

Women were more supportive of gay marriage than men, 39 percent to 26 percent.

Just 14 percent of people who did not finish high school supported gay marriage, compared to 25 percent of high school graduates and 44 percent of those with advanced college degrees.

The polling center's Web site -- www.merrimack.edu/polling -- has complete results of the poll.

http://www.ecnnews.com/cgi-bin/frame/getpage2.pl?cgi-bin/g/gstoryv2.pl+slug-gpoll09

[pattbateman]

blow it out your ass

now this goes to show, that polls are full of shit

so you cannot use them ever again to back your bogus claims cocksucker!!!!

[normalnoises]

Originally posted by pattbateman

blow it out your ass

now this goes to show, that polls are full of shit

so you cannot use them ever again to back your bogus claims cocksucker!!!!

Then why did you post one since you claim they are full of shit you hypocritical loser?

More proof you're a homophobic amd racist asshole. I bet you love to kill one in "the name of god" do you?

[jamiroguy1]

Originally posted by pattbateman

blow it out your ass

now this goes to show, that polls are full of shit

so you cannot use them ever again to back your bogus claims cocksucker!!!!

You have posted quite a few polls, you know.

[pattbateman]

im aware, just goes to show

[kramadas]

it really amuses me...what do these people have against gay marriage? I mean its not like anyone is forcing them to marry a gay person. Its somebody else's life - who are they to be dictating how somebody else should live?

[pattbateman]

its against my morals

i do not think it is right

thats why i am not a liberal

plain and simple

[kramadas]

Originally posted by pattbateman

its against my morals

i do not think it is right

thats why i am not a liberal

plain and simple

But it has nothing to do with you if someone guy marries another guy. How does that affect you?

[pattbateman]

kerry is against gay marraige

go ask him why he is douche im sure you will be voting for him

[bigpoppanils]

Originally posted by raver_mania

it really amuses me...what do these people have against gay marriage? I mean its not like anyone is forcing them to marry a gay person. Its somebody else's life - who are they to be dictating how somebody else should live?

the bible says its bad. thats the main reasoning that I have seen so far.

i think it may just be general ignorance. Humankind tends to hate and fear what it doesnt understand.

[jamiroguy1]

Originally posted by pattbateman

kerry is against gay marraige

go ask him why he is douche im sure you will be voting for him

You're not getting the point why raver_mania is asking you "what does it have to do with you?" Your morals or anyone else for that matter aren't relivant in the US. That's the basis of our country. Freedom. Think, next time you respond because just saying what you believe in, is right and is how everyone should live their lives is just plain fucking ignorant.

[pattbateman]

gay marraige goes against everything i believe in

marraige is a religious thing, and gays doing it just goes against that

mocks the sanctity of marraige

whats wrong with civil unions

gays can do that

make it cool to do that

and staright people will follow

it would be great

ask john kerry why he opposes it???

[kramadas]

Originally posted by pattbateman

kerry is against gay marraige

go ask him why he is douche im sure you will be voting for him

not voting for anyone, douche. Why don't you answer my previous question - they're not bothering you, why would you try impose your will on somone else's life?

[jamiroguy1]

Originally posted by pattbateman

gay marraige goes against everything i believe in

marraige is a religious thing, and gays doing it just goes against that

mocks the sanctity of marraige

whats wrong with civil unions

gays can do that

make it cool to do that

and staright people will follow

it would be great

ask john kerry why he opposes it???

Is this America? I thought we had freedom of Religion in this country. If this is America and we do have freedom of religion (that means practice religion any way you want even gays) then they should not be denied that right just because YOU or someone else doesn't agree with it.

If you don't like freedom of religion, then get your congressmen or senator to propose legislation to rewrite the constitution.

[jamiroguy1]

Originally posted by raver_mania

not voting for anyone, douche. Why don't you answer my previous question - they're not bothering you, why would you try impose your will on somone else's life?

Because he doesn't realize his arguement is flawed and defies logic. That's why he doesn't answer.

[kramadas]

Originally posted by pattbateman

gay marraige goes against everything i believe in

marraige is a religious thing, and gays doing it just goes against that

mocks the sanctity of marraige

whats wrong with civil unions

gays can do that

make it cool to do that

and staright people will follow

it would be great

ask john kerry why he opposes it???

yeah, but "unions" don't offer the same benefits marriage does.

bring Kerry onto this board, and I'll ask him.

[kramadas]

Originally posted by jamiroguy1

Because he doesn't realize his arguement is flawed and defies logic. That's why he doesn't answer.

[pattbateman]

I DO NOT WANT GAYS TO MARRY

its my "right" isnt it

all i have to say is that i live in ohio and i am prrtty sure i have nothing to worry about

ask your candidate john kerry, who you will be voting for why he doesnt????

if its such a big deal

[jamiroguy1]

Originally posted by pattbateman

I DO NOT WANT GAYS TO MARRY

its my "right" isnt it

all i have to say is that i live in ohio and i am prrtty sure i have nothing to worry about

ask your candidate john kerry, who you will be voting for why he doesnt????

if its such a big deal

You just don't get it. Who or what gives the right to tell gay people how they live? Are you the lord or the gays or does God actually speak through you?

[normalnoises]

Originally posted by pattbateman

its against my morals

i do not think it is right

thats why i am not a liberal

plain and simple

So just because YOU have a personal problem with it automatically means every gay who love each other must not be allowed to marry? Since when is YOUR word suddenly universal? I bet you'd prefer a one man one vote system over a democratic system. I bet you'd be against interracial marriage too, right? I bet you'd love apartheid.

[jamiroguy1]

Originally posted by normalnoises

So just because YOU have a personal problem with it automatically means every gay who love each other must not be allowed to marry? Since when is YOUR word suddenly universal?

When patbatteman declared himself almighty "Lord of the Homosexuals"

[pattbateman]

just like i am "avoiding" the question

why does john kerry feel the same way i do jackass????

remember the guy you will be voting for come november????

[normalnoises]

Originally posted by jamiroguy1

When patbatteman declared himself almighty "Lord of the Homosexuals"

It's time for Bateman to answer our questions if he wants to salvage any form of credibility, if any at all.

Anyhow...

I find THIS to be VERY DISTURBING...

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040207/NEWS24/102070161/-1/NEWS

Taft signs measure banning same-sex marriage

COLUMBUS - Despite appeals from gay-rights activists to use his veto power, Gov. Bob Taft yesterday signed a bill into law that critics say is among the nation’s most sweeping bans on gay marriage.

But Mr. Taft said, "First and foremost, this is not a law of intolerance."

In making Ohio the 38th state that has approved an anti-gay marriage law, Mr. Taft struck a rare defiant tone as he referred to Wednesday’s ruling by the highest state court in Massachusetts.

In a 4-3 decision, that court said only gay marriage - not same-sex civil unions - would comply with its decision last year that said gay couples have the constitutional right to marry.

"Four judges in another state should not, and cannot, hold the power to redefine marriage in Ohio," Mr. Taft said in a written statement.

"Rather, it is for citizens of Ohio, through our elected representatives and after extensive public and legislative debate, to determine our laws and ... to define our fundamental institutions," the governor added.

Mr. Taft’s signing of the anti-gay marriage bill and his two-page written statement followed seven years of legislative lobbying by groups including the Christian Coalition.

"It’s a great day for Ohio and Ohio’s families," said Chris Long, executive director of the Christian Coalition of Ohio. "It will go a long way toward strengthening Ohio families and making Ohio a family-friendly state."

Linda Harvey, president of Columbus-based Mission America, said the new law would help empower parents who don’t want their children taught in public schools that homosexual marriage is the same as heterosexual marriage.

Gay-rights activists said Mr. Taft’s decision was an act of discrimination against gays and lesbians and said it would damage Ohio’s economy.

"It’s a sad day for Ohio," said Dave Schultz, a spokesman for the Log Cabin Republicans of Northwest Ohio, a gay and lesbian group. "Eventually, this law will be overturned and it will be looked unfavorably upon in history."

"What Mr. Taft is suggesting is that same-sex couples are not full citizens in Ohio," said Tim Downing, a Cleveland attorney and spokesman for a coalition that fought the bill. "It is insulting and shameful."

Although Ohio law already defines marriage as between a man and a woman, the U.S. Constitution says courts are obligated to give "full faith and credit" to decrees and acts of other states unless they violate a "strong public policy."

Without Ohio joining the other 37 states that have made that declaration, gay couples could go to Canada, Vermont, or Massachusetts starting May 17, and then return to Ohio and claim the benefits of marriage, state Rep. Bill Seitz (R., Cincinnati) said.

Gay-rights groups initially said the law would restrict unmarried couples - heterosexual and homosexual - from receiving "domestic partner" benefits such as health and life insurance, pensions, and profit sharing. They later shifted their focus to state employees and university employees being deprived of those benefits.

Mr. Taft said the claim was among several that "have been misunderstood and inaccurately portrayed in the media."

The governor said the new law, which takes effect in 90 days, would not prevent companies and local governments from offering domestic partner benefits and would allow state and university workers - either union or nonunion - to negotiate for those benefits.

The new law would only prohibit state government from providing the "specific statutory benefits of a legal marriage" to unmarried couples, such as interest in a spouse’s estate, Mr. Taft said.

Mr. Downing and other gay-rights activists said they expect numerous legal challenges.

For example, if a same-sex couple who has adopted a child in another state comes to Ohio and their child is ill and must be rushed to a hospital.

"The staff could say, ‘We do not recognize this court order from another state.’ The child then is left without parents and becomes a ward of the state," Mr. Downing said.

Mr. Taft said as the nation protects "our most sacred institution, we must not lose sight of our most sacred ideals.

"As the public debate on this question continues in Ohio and across the country, it is important that our message be one of tolerance, free of prejudice.

"This new law meets the test and sets an appropriate balance: it reinforces the importance of traditional marriage within our society but it also allows for the public and private provisions of benefits to persons within nontraditional relationships," Mr. Taft said.

Imagine that. Ohio's governor using a religious group as ammo to impose his will on gays because HE has a personal problem with it. I guess some assholes care less about seperation of church and state and would rather approach it with a one man one vote basis over democratic means passing laws using the constitutution as a basis. Instead, Taft uses the bible. What a dolt.

[pattbateman]

1) Marriage is based on our heritage of reproduction and family gay marriage makes the definition of marriage meaningless.

2) Being Gay is abnormal - but not as abnormal as smoking or extreme religion.

3) Gays should not use this issue as a metaphor for their own self acceptance issues.

4) The institution of marriage is a fraud and not sane person who truly understood how corrupt the courts are would ever get married in the first place.