Clenbuterol?

[elitesnautica]

Originally posted by keyies

Sorry, I'm very ignorant when it comes to these sort of things. Can either one of you recommend one that does work (of course used in conjunction with exercise).

OTC's??? No, not really. The ECA stack was the only product that seemed to do much good. And even that only increased metabolism 3-5%.

Nautica

[diesel77]

Originally posted by elitesnautica

When you say 1/2 pill. How many mcg's are you talking about.

Also, with T3, you do not want to go on and off. The up and down can reak havoc on your thyroid.

Start off low, up it to a max amount and run that for about a month or so, then lower it back down to the original amount until you eventually come off.

Also, notice that I am not giving you exact amounts. That is where the doc and blood test come into play. But, if you insist on doing this without a doc, then maybe take that 1/2 pill a day down to 1/4 then slowly work you way up. If you feel extra gittery or are having trouble sleeping back down a bit.

If you want me to find out the recommended doses for you size, I will, but it will only be an estimate and will never take the place of a doc.

Nautica

i think the t3 theory that deals with hormoe suppression is mostly a hoax. umm below is one of the few articles i have that you might want to check out...

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T3 -- To Taper or Not to Taper?

Here's an interesting T3 cycling theory

This is to be a far from scientific article, one based, rather, in practical experience in losing weight and helping others to lose weight. We are not, on the average, concerned with obese individuals, but those who have packed on an additional 12-25 pounds beyond what was expected in a traditional steroid cycle, and the weeks beyond.

Not all of us will gain this type of weight during a cycle, but those of us who use a high protein / high calorie diet in conjunction with heavy weight lifting, accompanied by a medium to high dosed androgenic (i.e., Dianabol, Testosterone, Trenbolone (Finaplix or Component T-H)) steroid cycle, will almost always pack on an additional 6-20 pounds of pure lard. Granted that Burger King, Hooters, and Papadeux are not on the traditional bodybuilders menu, many of us are either forced, or by personal inclination, choose to indulge in calorie/fat bombs in order to provide the necessary building blocks for muscle.

Who, after all, can subsist on 3-5 protein shakes a day? I certainly can't, and from what I've seen of the advice on the boards, a Whopper or 2 every other day seems to be the prescribed regimen for gaining LBM - the prized Lean Body Mass.

Let's look at that paradigm for a moment - LBM. Sure and granted, we all seek this Holy Grail of Bodybuilding, but too many novices and mid-level bodybuilders alike sacrifice gaining pure muscle mass, in favor of gaining 2-6 pounds of LBM with a $400 - $1100 steriod cycle - all because they want to stay lean.

I might be wrong (it's been known to happen, albeit once a year or so), but if I'm going to invest that kind of dough, I want to see some by God muscle appear. In order to build the kind of muscle I expect from a cycle, I need to consume 4000 - 6000 calories a day, depending upon what I'm doing (Touch Football, Softball, or Indoor Soccer season). Those calories don't ALL go towards LBM, many (sometimes too many) go towards pure lard.

Don't get me wrong, the intensity you apply in the gym does, in fact, burn some serious fat, while at the same time channeling blood, nutrients, and the cherished PUMP to your muscles. However, if you intend to gain serious mass, and here I give kudos to the WarPig, you'll bulk and bloat. Damnit, the bloat. We don't want to look like Beachballs, we want to look like Footballs - tight, tapered, lean in all the right places. How to eat the necessary calories, the necessary protein, the absolutely essential, energy giving Carbohydrates, without the dreaded bloat?

Here's where the first application of T-3 comes in. I won't quote any studies (there are few), but from personal experience, and the experience of those amatuer and mid-level bodybuilders I've helped, a 25-50mcg dosage of T-3, per day, will help to reduce bloating and water retention, while at the same time enhancing the effect of whatever steriod (androgenic or anabolic) the user chooses. It won't, by any means, keep the mass from piling on, but it will eliminate the dreaded moon face and the hideous stomach bloat.

The second application of T-3 is intended to quickly reduce the blubber produced by a serious mass cycle, and ALWAYS, always includes Clenbuterol. Say, for example, you've done a Raver Cycle - 2g Test, 600mg Deca, and 50-75mg Dbol a day, for 12 weeks. You've devoured 3 Cornish Game Hens at a meal, wolfed down a double Whopper with cheese, but no Mayo every other day, and forced yourself to eat spaghetti with meatballs, cottage cheese, herb-seasoned chicken breasts, pork tenderloins, meatloaf, oatmeal, grits, and eggs, eggs, eggs, tuna tuna tuna, along with 2-3 daily protein shakes.

Trust me - you're fat. You look big as shit in the mirror, but you have no abs, no separation, and no definition. The remedy?

Weigh yourself. For every pound, use 1mcg of T-3. If you weigh 180, and you look fat, use 175mcg of T-3. If you weigh 250, and you look fat, use 250mcg of T-3. Round the dosage down to the nearest 25mcg, and stack Clenbuterol at 5-12 tabs a day for 6 weeks. Follow a CKD diet, such as Body Opus or Animalobolics, do 15-20 minutes of Cardio for the first 3 weeks, and watch the fat shed.

T-3 by itself produces sweat like there's no tomorrow - you'll have wet spots under your arms, under your pecs, in the crack of your ass, and, on your forehead. You might get the shakes. T-3, stacked with Clenbuterol, will give you all of the above mentioned sweats, along with the shakes...your hands, your legs (stairs are really a bitch), and your neck, on occasion. If you have a job like mine, where the shakes are undesirable, use a potassium supplement or eat 2-3 bananas a day, it will alleviate them.

In summary, T-3 has two uses - eliminating bloat and water retention during a cycle, and rapid weight loss after a cycle. One of the things to remember while using this drug is that it DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE between LBM and pure fat - it eats tissue, period. I used T-3 exactly twice before figuring out that it should never be used without at least 400mg of Testosterone, preferably, in dieting mode, Propionate. A post cycle regimen of 1mcg T-3 per pound of bodyweight, along with Clenbuterol and a 50-100mg / day dosage of Test Prop, will work absolute wonders.

And now, for the Raver challenge (the third in 14 months) - If anyone - ANYONE can produce scientific, verifiable evidence that synthetic T-3 (Cytomel, Cynomel) causes thyroid shutdown in humans after prolonged, high dose use - I'll send them $100. A major medical journal, a study by a top 10 ranked pharmaceutical firm, or verifiable results of a personal medical evaluation (verifiable via documentation and confirmation by the physician) are acceptable. Barring that, let's not hear any further argument about the horrible side effects of T-3.

[elitesnautica]

It depends on what context you call the suppression a hoax. Exogenous use of T3 does shut down natural production, just like an elevated level of indigenous T3. It is a negative feed back that lowers the release of TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone), which in turn lowers the production of the thyroid.

In the context of permanent surpression, you are right. Like I stated earlier most, if not all, current studies show that the thyroid will begin production upon stopping use. However, this production will not be immediate so precautions must be taken post cycle.

I have my doubts that ramping down at the end of the cycle will get the thyroid going any quicker, b/c any elevation at all should limit TSH production, but it appears to be a much safer option.

Nautica