kramadas Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 Spain to double Afghanistan troopsMonday, March 29, 2004 Posted: 9:39 AM EST (1439 GMT) MADRID, Spain (AP) -- The incoming Socialist government, under pressure over its plans to withdraw Spain's troops from Iraq, has agreed to double the country's contingent in Afghanistan to 250 soldiers this summer, an aide to the future defense minister said Monday.The Socialist party insisted its plans on Iraq remain firm, however.Outgoing Defense Minister Federico Trillo made the decision on the Afghanistan troops last week in consultation with the Socialist who will replace him, Jose Bono, and Bono made no objection, his spokesman Jose Luis Fernandez told The Associated Press.Reports that the Socialists, who won March 14 general elections, planned to increase Spain's presence in Afghanistan first surfaced last week. The idea was widely interpreted as a bid to deflect criticism from the United States and other countries of the Socialists' plans to withdraw Spain's 1,300 troops from Iraq unless the United Nations takes charge there.Prime Minister-elect Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero campaigned on a pledge to remove those soldiers, and has reiterated the promise since his upset election victory over Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's party. Aznar was accused of provoking the March 11 terror attack in Madrid by backing the war in Iraq.Zapatero has called both the war and the occupation illegal because they lacked a mandate from the United Nations.His party sees Afghanistan as totally different because the occupation is sanctioned by the United Nations and the troops overseeing the country's reconstruction after the U.S. attacks that toppled the Taliban in 2002 are under NATO command.The Spanish troop contingent in Afghanistan will be doubled from 125 to 250 in August, Fernandez said.Trillo and Bono met informally Tuesday to discuss the outgoing government's plans for troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, including a planned rotation of the troops in Iraq that was to be completed next month. Bono said he did not object to that either, Fernandez said.Spanish radio station Cadena Ser said 160 troops due to travel from Zaragoza in northeast Spain to Iraq on Monday to start that rotation had been ordered to stay put, however.Zapatero's campaign manager Jose Blanco said Monday that plans to withdraw the troops from Iraq unless the postwar occupation gets a U.N. mandate remain in place."Since nothing has changed, the objective reasons continue the same," Blanco told Spanish National Radio. "Therefore, the Socialist party maintains its commitment to withdraw the troops by June 30." That is the date their mandate from the Spanish government expires.U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, attending last week's state funeral for the 190 victims of the Madrid terror bombings, met briefly with Zapatero and offered immediate talks on crafting a U.N. role in Iraq that would meet the Spaniard's concerns.Some U.S. lawmakers have said Spain would appear to be appeasing terrorists if it goes ahead and withdraws its troops from Iraq.In a videotape found after the rail bombings, an Arabic-speaking man said al-Qaida carried them out to punish Spain's conservative government for backing the U.S.-led war in Iraq.The conservatives, once favored to win, lost the general election held three days after the bombing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiroguy1 Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 This totally debunks the righties' arguement that Spain is nothing but a bunch of cowardly appeasers of terrorists.Good move for Spain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr mahs Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 This totally debunks the righties' arguement that Spain is nothing but a bunch of cowardly appeasers of terrorists.Good move for Spain. Yeah 250 troops is a real contribution.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 This totally debunks the righties' arguement that Spain is nothing but a bunch of cowardly appeasers of terrorists.Good move for Spain. Really idiot????...Are you sure about your analysis?..I would check again douchebag---then again, you are too stupid ...You may want to consider this as a political move, as stated in the article, to "deflect" well-founded and broad criticism to a Spanish pullout out of Iraq..... a political move because the new PM ran on a pullout campaign foundation, and now realizes it is the wrong move but can't go back against his promise...Of course, let's also not forget that the new PM's election win was aided in part by AL Qaeda....that is where the "cowardly" criticism comes from retard.....get it simpleton?If you want to diminish all of that, then you should also consider that this move certainly debunks the left's ridiculous assertion that the War on Iraq ruined the coalition for the War on Terror.....You do remember that baseless cry by lefties, don't you jamirolost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted March 29 Author Report Share Posted March 29 Everything is a "political move". To say the previous government's support for the war was not a political move is naive. And I think what we were saying was that the war in Iraq would increase terrorism, nothing to do with the coalition on terror (at least, for my part). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 Originally posted by raver_mania Everything is a "political move". To say the previous government's support for the war was not a political move is naive. And I think what we were saying was that the war in Iraq would increase terrorism, nothing to do with the coalition on terror (at least, for my part). Yes, of course politics are involved. That is my point.The title of this thread included 'cowardly" and jamirolost jumped on that and claimed incorrectly that this "debunks" the cowardly charge---THIS action by Spain does NOTHING to debunk critics claims of Spain and "cowardly' ..... absolutely nothing....It has no applicability to why critics believed the Spanish people were cowardly by their actions in the election.....And of course you can make the arguement that the previous Spanish PM was using politics when he supported the war.......you could also make the arguement he thought it was the right thing to do, and risked political suicide by doing something that was unpopular in his country (nah--that could never be)With respects to the coalition for the War on Terror....if you want to excuse yourself from this group fine--but the anti-Bush crowd loves talking about how the war on Iraq has damaged the coalition to fight the war on terror----that is nothing but 100% bullshit. With respects to the Iraqi war increasing terrorism...I find this to be absurd....You mean the 100,000 terrorists that went through Afghan training camps are now suddenly into murder because we invaded Iraq?.....the state sponsors of terrorism like Iran and some Saudi elements are going to donate more money on top of the billions they donate today?.........You mean that radical clerics are now going to be delivering three anti-American sermons a week instead of two?........that terrorists are going to plant 10 bombs on a train instead of 5?.....The building of madrasses that preach militant Islam will grow faster than the thousands that have been built the last decade?.....Schools will now replace math and science with jihad and militant teachings?--bad example, that is done already. The recruiting pool will increase for terrorists because of the Iraqi war, but will not decrease because of a free and democratic Iraq?The war in Iraq is exactly what the war on terror needs, and is exactly what is needed in the ME to lower the threat of terrrorism in the FUTURE. Not just tomorrow for the "MTV- attention span of infants" generation..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmatas2277 Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 This totally debunks the righties' arguement that Spain is nothing but a bunch of cowardly appeasers of terrorists. till they get bombed again...then they will pull out those troops and eventually cut diplomatic ties with US... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 Originally posted by mr mahs Yeah 250 troops is a real contribution.... more than most of our allies.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 Originally posted by bigpoppanils more than most of our allies.... please expand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiroguy1 Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 Originally posted by igloo Yes, of course politics are involved. That is my point.The title of this thread included 'cowardly" and jamirolost jumped on that and claimed incorrectly that this "debunks" the cowardly charge---THIS action by Spain does NOTHING to debunk critics claims of Spain and "cowardly' ..... absolutely nothing....It has no applicability to why critics believed the Spanish people were cowardly by their actions in the election.....And of course you can make the arguement that the previous Spanish PM was using politics when he supported the war.......you could also make the arguement he thought it was the right thing to do, and risked political suicide by doing something that was unpopular in his country (nah--that could never be)With respects to the coalition for the War on Terror....if you want to excuse yourself from this group fine--but the anti-Bush crowd loves talking about how the war on Iraq has damaged the coalition to fight the war on terror----that is nothing but 100% bullshit. With respects to the Iraqi war increasing terrorism...I find this to be absurd....You mean the 100,000 terrorists that went through Afghan training camps are now suddenly into murder because we invaded Iraq?.....the state sponsors of terrorism like Iran and some Saudi elements are going to donate more money on top of the billions they donate today?.........You mean that radical clerics are now going to be delivering three anti-American sermons a week instead of two?........that terrorists are going to plant 10 bombs on a train instead of 5?.....The building of madrasses that preach militant Islam will grow faster than the thousands that have been built the last decade?.....Schools will now replace math and science with jihad and militant teachings?--bad example, that is done already. The recruiting pool will increase for terrorists because of the Iraqi war, but will not decrease because of a free and democratic Iraq?The war in Iraq is exactly what the war on terror needs, and is exactly what is needed in the ME to lower the threat of terrrorism in the FUTURE. Not just tomorrow for the "MTV- attention span of infants" generation..... You're a fucking retard. They've doubled up on their efforts in fighting Al qaeda in Afghanistan and pulled out of Iraq. You are fucking douche bag coward apologist igloo. Go shit in you pampers, poopy pants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 You're a fucking retard. They've doubled up on their efforts in fighting Al qaeda in Afghanistan and pulled out of Iraq. You are fucking douche bag coward apologist igloo. Go shit in you pampers, poopy pants. :laugh: Wow....Son, please don't make this another thread where you expose your stupidity, as you have once again done, and then make it worse in typical jamirolost fashion by continuing your nonsense with a string of idiotic, moronic responsesFor the love of God, show some self respect son.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr mahs Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 Originally posted by igloo :laugh: Wow....Son, please don't make this another thread where you expose your stupidity, as you have once again done, and then make it worse in typical jamirolost fashion by continuing your nonsense with a string of idiotic, moronic responsesFor the love of God, show some self respect son.... I think he has a learning disability, must be from all the tie die chemicals and bong hits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 Originally posted by mr mahs I think he has a learning disability, must be from all the tie die chemicals and bong hits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintron Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 I wouldn't say Spain is cowardly in the least.I'm mad that they're yanking support from Iraq, but then again Iraq has degenerated into a shithole. Put together the Iraqi's third world ingratitude and ignorance, and the united states' inability to run shit and keep people happy in foreign nations and of course you get some countries who decide to step off the bus.But i wouldn't go so far as to call Spain cowards. If anything, they're strong enough to say it's bullshit to stick around and fight when the war is long over but the dying still continues.If anything they're the ones NOT toeing the party line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siceone Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 250 troops? are you kidding me what are they going to do work in the mess?250 troops is nothing Im sorry, they are cowardly because they purpose of the bombing was for thier support in Iraq, so they withdraw thier troops from iraq. 250 troops ? doubling nothing is still nothing it's a token move to try to save some face with the american gov't nothing else Im not even sure if spanish troops see action. This doesn't debunk anything the Terrorist want the troops out of Iraq, they bombed spain, they got the reaction that they wanted and overtly stated they wanted. The terrorists still won sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmatas2277 Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 Originally posted by cintron But i wouldn't go so far as to call Spain cowards. If anything, they're strong enough to say it's bullshit to stick around and fight when the war is long over but the dying still continues.If anything they're the ones NOT toeing the party line. yea...they pull out after a bomb goes off...u know that's the ONLY way the Socialists would have won... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 Originally posted by mrmatas2277 yea...they pull out after a bomb goes off...u know that's the ONLY way the Socialists would have won... i dont think it was the bombing alone that caused their win. Granted, it helped the Socialists, but other factors were at play. A lot of people in Spain seemed mad at the incumbents for insisting that the ETA was responsible, even when evidence was putting the blame someplace else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmatas2277 Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 Originally posted by bigpoppanils i dont think it was the bombing alone that caused their win. Granted, it helped the Socialists, but other factors were at play. A lot of people in Spain seemed mad at the incumbents for insisting that the ETA was responsible, even when evidence was putting the blame someplace else. bottom line...no bomb..no Socialists..no Socialists..no pull out of Iraq...right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 Originally posted by igloo please expand as i have posted previously, Canada, Brazil, and Australia announced that all of their troops will be leaving Afganistan this year.Most of our Eastern European allies have not contributed much of anything besides support in the UN (except for Poland). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 Originally posted by mrmatas2277 bottom line...no bomb..no Socialists..no Socialists..no pull out of Iraq...right? probablylooks like the socialists may unseat Chirac as well....France's conservative party has beeen taking a beating lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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