jamiroguy1 Posted April 19 Report Share Posted April 19 Patriot Act gets boost from 9/11 hearingsControversial law faces a renewal vote this year. Bush calls it a 'needed tool' in helping to catch suspected terrorists.By Gail Russell Chaddock | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor 4/19/2004WASHINGTON - While the Bush administration took heavy hits in last week's 9/11 commission hearings, the hearings may have given the White House a public relations boost on one important front: its effort to win renewal this year for the controversial USA Patriot Act.Pressed by commissioners as to why their agencies failed to "connect the dots" before the 9/11 attacks, law enforcement and intelligence officials in both the Clinton and Bush administrations cited powers now included in the Patriot Act. The act, for example, makes it easier for agencies to to monitor the activities of suspected terrorists, and lets agents conducting criminal probes share information with intelligence officers, and vice versa.That's one reason why the White House - embattled on many fronts - is touting the Patriot Act this week in events in Hershey, Pa., Monday and Buffalo, N.Y., Tuesday.In his weekly radio broadcast on Saturday, President Bush stepped up his bid to renew Patriot Act provisions slated to sunset at year end, describing the act as a "needed tool" in the war on terror. To abandon it would "demonstrate willful blindness to a continuing threat," he said.The new push by the White House doesn't mean Bush won't continue to face criticism from civil libertarians for the controversial act. But it does make it harder for Democrats to score points on an issue that has been a sure-fire applause line against Bush and Attorney General John Ashcroft in campaign stump speeches.The vote on renewing the act will be a tough one for many conservatives, who worry that the law gives big government too much power to delve into private life."The idea of retaining the parts of the Patriot Act that are set to expire is going to split the Republican Party. It will be a very decisive and a very close vote," says Tim Lynch, director of the project on criminal justice at the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank in Washington.Although Bush's Democratic rival for the White House, Sen. John Kerry, voted for the Patriot Act, he been critical of civil liberties abuses on the campaign trail. In response to the president's radio address this weekend, he called for "reforming our intelligence system and strengthening our antiterrorism laws" so that agencies can communicate with each other."The Patriot Act, however, does not do that on its own, which is why it needs to be fixed," he saidFull Articlehttp://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0419/p02s01-uspo.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiroguy1 Posted April 19 Author Report Share Posted April 19 Unless we want to totally scrap the bill of rights, I believe we should remove this act. Nothing will 100% protect us from attacks so please don't argue that stripping the rights of US citizens will protect us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmatas2277 Posted April 19 Report Share Posted April 19 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 he called for "reforming our intelligence system and strengthening our antiterrorism laws" so that agencies can communicate with each other. i have been saying this, for how long now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normalnoises Posted April 19 Report Share Posted April 19 Let it expire. Denying basic rights is not protecting us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siceone Posted April 19 Report Share Posted April 19 Originally posted by jamiroguy1 Unless we want to totally scrap the bill of rights, I believe we should remove this act. Nothing will 100% protect us from attacks so please don't argue that stripping the rights of US citizens will protect us. The patriot act does no such thing. have you ever heard of RICO? weill that is basically the patriot act for mobsters. if we use it to catch mobsters why can't we use it to catch terrorists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobeton Posted April 19 Report Share Posted April 19 The Patriot Act is a very clear assault on the Bill of Rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siceone Posted April 20 Report Share Posted April 20 Originally posted by sobeton The Patriot Act is a very clear assault on the Bill of Rights. I have talked to con law proffesors about this all the live long it is not an assault on the bill of rights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobeton Posted April 20 Report Share Posted April 20 Originally posted by siceone I have talked to con law proffesors about this all the live long it is not an assault on the bill of rights 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, and 14th amendments, to name but a few are eroded under the Patriot Act. you may want to ask the con law professors, about Humanitarian Law Project vs. John Ashcroft. the Patriot Act in it's current form ;clearly has issues that need to be addressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siceone Posted April 20 Report Share Posted April 20 Originally posted by sobeton 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, and 14th amendments, to name but a few are eroded under the Patriot Act. you may want to ask the con law professors, about Humanitarian Law Project vs. John Ashcroft. the Patriot Act in it's current form ;clearly has issues that need to be addressed. Has anyone brought and actual suit claiming thier rights were violated by the patriot act? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintron Posted April 20 Report Share Posted April 20 I say let it expire.IF you're going to violate someone's rights, do it the right way.Grab his ass in the middle of the night, take him to some back room and torture him, then dump his body off a bridge when you're done.It's not that the Patriot Act is bad in and of itself. It's that every senator from every state managed to slip in a shitload of other little laws along with it.Anybody remember the amber alert act and the rave act?Rave act managed to get tucked in under the amber alert act - nevermind that they're two entirely seperate and unrelated entities. Amber alert act got signed in along with the Patriot Act.So in the end, yes it did affect us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobeton Posted April 20 Report Share Posted April 20 Originally posted by siceone Has anyone brought and actual suit claiming thier rights were violated by the patriot act? yes, several including the case I referenced Humanitarian Law Project vs. John Ashcroft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siceone Posted April 20 Report Share Posted April 20 those are cases in principle has anyone actually had thier door kicked in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siceone Posted April 20 Report Share Posted April 20 those are cases in principle has anyone actually had thier door kicked in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpoppanils Posted April 20 Report Share Posted April 20 Originally posted by siceone those are cases in principle has anyone actually had thier door kicked in? i'm not waiting for that to happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobeton Posted April 20 Report Share Posted April 20 Originally posted by siceone those are cases in principle has anyone actually had thier door kicked in? it's actually a single case in which the judge, found issue with provisions of the Patriot Act. I'm not quite sure what your definition of "a case in principle is" ... has anyone had their door kicked in? I'm not sure. it's inevitable, if it has not happen already. my argument is; the Act clearly has sections that need to revised or deleted entirely. Sections 213 and 215 are two which come to mind. giving sweeping powers to any government agency; superceding our system of checks and balances is not a good thing. history would support my notions, as I'm sure you have read about the "Hoover Years".. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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