You can't have it both ways!!! (bush & gas prices)

[shroomy]

OK.. I see quite a few people bitch about gas prices and blame bush.

and almost without exception these are the same people who bitched about the bush energy policy that didn't pass.

Specifically about the development of our (I mean America's) oil resources in Alaska, California ect.

Now you can't have it both ways, bitching about gas prices due to our dependance on foreign oil, then bitching about us trying to develop our own resources.

Pick one, and stop being hypocritical.

[Guest saleen351]

it's a refinery problem, not a supply problem. Once the national reserves are topped off, then the bottle neck continues with refinery issues, on top of that, military jet fuel is eating into the production of gasoline.

Heating Oil #2 eates into gasoline in the winter etc...

the last refinery I belive was built in like 1981...

Thier are ships sitting off the coast right now waiting to go into port, but can't. Then under some dumb act, I think the Jones act, oinly 12 ships can bring oil into the us..

I use to trade energies in nyc.

[pod]

Fossil fuels suck...we should be moving to a hydrogen-based system. Or even better, pick one of these up...they're getting cheaper.

[obby]

Originally posted by pod

Fossil fuels suck...we should be moving to a hydrogen-based system. Or even better, pick one of these up...they're getting cheaper.

LOL

We need a flux capacitor!!!!!

LOL

[pod]

[Guest saleen351]

hydrogen, while abundant, is difficult to get to market.

[skytraveler]

Originally posted by pod

I gotta get a shirt like that where is the pic from or do you know who might be selling a shirt like this???

[pod]

I just GISed for it...I'm looking for the shirt right now.

[marcodavalos]

I always thought Europeans were dumb ... when I saw their small cars and their bycicles ... guess they prefer to live.

If it ain't working ... find a solution, don't further dig the hole.

[mrmatas2277]

Originally posted by marcodavalos

If it ain't working ... find a solution, don't further dig the hole.

[pod]

Smaller cars are fine by me. I'm a big fan of motorcycles though. Big and fast enough to earn the respect of other people on the road, and efficient.

I'm talking respect in terms of the way other drivers treat you. If you're on a small vehicle, like a scooter, drivers would sooner run you down then play nice. They think twice when they see a big Hog or a land rocket like an R1 or a 'Busa in their sights. Scooters are fun, but I hate riding them around here. I often borrow a friend's for small errands, and it is a miracle I come home alive...I've nearly been squished many a time by a discourteous driver. A few days later, I borrowed another friend's R1, and it was totally different....they knew I was there, they knew I was faster than them by a factor of three, and they left me alone.

I had the presence of a car, and the efficiency of a far smaller vehicle. Not to mention motorcycles are just plain cool.

[shroomy]

Originally posted by saleen351

it's a refinery problem, not a supply problem. Once the national reserves are topped off, then the bottle neck continues with refinery issues, on top of that, military jet fuel is eating into the production of gasoline.

Heating Oil #2 eates into gasoline in the winter etc...

the last refinery I belive was built in like 1981...

Thier are ships sitting off the coast right now waiting to go into port, but can't. Then under some dumb act, I think the Jones act, oinly 12 ships can bring oil into the us..

I use to trade energies in nyc.

well I see why you didn't do well trading energies.

we get the fuel for our jets in europe and the mideast from europe and the mideast not here (Qatar and Germany I think)

gas is expensive because the price of crude and demand, not refinery issues. The refineries have the capacity for the present as long as the government doesnt make a law for cleaner burning gas. then were fucked, because yeah, most of the refineries are old and coulndt be upgraded.

and the part about ships sitting of the coast because only 12 ships can bring it into the US is stupid as fuck.... why.. because if they cant bring it in, why the fuck are they sitting off the coast waiting??

im sure some ports can only off load a few ships at a time, just like other cargo (and the reason you see ships waiting outside of miami or port everglades) but that is just stupid.

[sobeton]

Originally posted by marcodavalos

I always thought Europeans were dumb ... when I saw their small cars and their bycicles ... guess they prefer to live.

If it ain't working ... find a solution, don't further dig the hole.

amen!

[coachjames]

[::sight::] This is SUCH a common misconception. Gas prices are not due to limited local production. Actually, if we opened up all our potential reserves, even the ones in protected wilderness, and stopped accepting middle eastern crude, then our gas prices would shoot up probably by a factor of three. As with most anything, it costs an American company a lot more to extract crude than it does a middle eastern.

Of course, part of that is just plain geography. Most of our reserves are difficult to reach, like offshore or in the middle of fucking Alaska. Whereas the middle eastern reserves tend to be just outside their back porch. Back when we had lakes of oil under TX, this might not have been true, but all of the easy to get to reserves have been tapped in America.

If they wanted to, the OPEC companies could easily drive all American companies out of business. They could reduce the price of their crude and up their production to such a point that we would be drowning in the shit. The American companies just can't compete. And the OPEC countries would not really take a hit on their revenues. They just sell more at less until the US companies are out of business. In general, the OPEC prices reflect the American Oil companies' desire to keep the price at a level where they can stay in business. Though most people don't know it, the US gov't often petitions OPEC to raise their prices so all of our companies don't go out of business.

Opening up the other reserves would not change at all the fact that it costs an american company 3x-5x as much as it does an OPEC company to extract oil. The OPEC nations are not the ones keeping the price so high. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Oh yeah, another problem is our massive over-consumption. Outlaw SUVs!

[Guest saleen351]

Originally posted by shroomy

well I see why you didn't do well trading energies.

we get the fuel for our jets in europe and the mideast from europe and the mideast not here (Qatar and Germany I think)

gas is expensive because the price of crude and demand, not refinery issues. The refineries have the capacity for the present as long as the government doesnt make a law for cleaner burning gas. then were fucked, because yeah, most of the refineries are old and coulndt be upgraded.

and the part about ships sitting of the coast because only 12 ships can bring it into the US is stupid as fuck.... why.. because if they cant bring it in, why the fuck are they sitting off the coast waiting??

im sure some ports can only off load a few ships at a time, just like other cargo (and the reason you see ships waiting outside of miami or port everglades) but that is just stupid.

wrong again.. the same refineries that make our gas make jet fuel and heating oil. They can't produce the stuff at the same time, and refineries have maintenance downtime. Learn the game, every tuesday at 8pm, the oil reports come out.

We simply can't refine the stuff fast enough. And opec is not a force it once was, since Russia is not part of opec.

Opec is now walking the edge of disaster. They don't have unlimited supplies, and their high prices are feeding into adam smiths economics. The market is starting to shift to more fuel efficient cars. 10 years from now, the saudis will bride GM to build a 25mpg vette..

here is a sample of the jones act.

Merchant Seaman Protection and Relief 46 USCS Appx § 688 (2002) Title 46. Appendix. Shipping Chapter 18.

(a) Application of railway employee statutes; jurisdiction. Any seaman who shall suffer personal injury in the course of his employment may, at his election, maintain an action for damages at law, with the right of trial by jury, and in such action all statutes of the United States modifying or extending the common-law right or remedy in cases of personal injury to railway employees shall apply; and in case of the death of any seaman as a result of any such personal injury the personal representative of such seaman may maintain an action for damages at law with the right of trial by jury, and in such action all statutes of the United States conferring or regulating the right of action for death in the case of railway employees shall be applicable. Jurisdiction in such actions shall be under the court of the district in which the defendant employer resides or in which his principal office is located.

( Limitation for certain aliens; applicability in lieu of other remedy.

(1) No action may be maintained under subsection (a) or under any other maritime law of the United States for maintenance and cure or for damages for the injury or death of a person who was not a citizen or permanent resident alien of the United States at the time of the incident giving rise to the action, if the incident occurred—

(A) while that person was in the employ of an enterprise engaged in the exploration, development, or production of offshore mineral or energy resources--including but not limited to drilling, mapping, surveying, diving, pipelaying, maintaining, repairing, constructing, or transporting supplies, equipment or personnel, but not including transporting those resources by a vessel constructed or adapted primarily to carry oil in bulk in the cargo spaces; and

( in the territorial waters or waters overlaying the continental shelf of a nation other than the United States, its territories, or possessions. As used in this paragraph, the term "continental shelf" has the meaning stated in Article I of the 1958 Convention on the Continental Shelf.

(2) The provisions of paragraph (1) of this subsection shall not be applicable if the person bringing the action establishes that no remedy was available to that person—

(A) under the laws of the nation asserting jurisdiction over the area in which the incident occurred; or

( under the laws of the nation in which, at the time of the incident, the person for whose injury or death a remedy is sought maintained citizenship or residency