farenheit 9/11 discussion thread!!!!!!!!!

[fliptoniaaa]

and there off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

post ur opinions here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[happyface]

[funketeer]

I was great!!!! I haven't seen it yet.

[xxgrooveericxx]

I couldn't make it to the theater...

Tomorrow is another day....

[funketeer]

I was gonnna go and then i didn't so I'm going some other day or something, I don't know.

[mdamon7278]

I couldnt make it, had to take a massive dump, maybe tomorrow, if I dont have to take another massive Damon shit of the day, so who knows!!!

[shroomy]

The film is an insult to anyone's intelligence.

Moore is pandering, to the uninformed, and is more hypocritical than anyone I have ever seen.

a few examples....

Moore uses Wesly Clarke as his moral hero about all the things that should have been done in the war against terrorism. Moore then goes after bush for leting some of the Saudi royal family (including some bin laudins) fly out after the 9/11 attack.

but he doesn't mention that Wesly Clarke is the one who suggested and authorized the flights after the FBI had interviewed or cleared everyone on board.

or

He shows these idlyic pictures of Iraqi civilians (kids flying kites and shit) talking about the people we are killing with our bombs...

but never a word about the 300,000 pluss civilians that Sadam killed or the ones he would have continued to kill.

I'm dissapointed that Moore who I always liked, threw out all standards in making this propiganda...

[tranzwhore]

we want moore

[funketeer]

say no moore

[shroomy]

a couple more.....

moore talks about bush taking vacations and chilling out after the attack... and shows pictures of bush at camp david.. and doesn't even mention that the guy in the picture next to bush is Tony Blair, the PM of Brittan...

moore says that saddam never harmed or even threated an american. (ill ignore the implication that it must be ok if he is just slaughtering the iraqi's, and then bitches that we are slaughtering the iraqi's) which is just bullshit. It was Clinton who struck against Iraq for trying to assasinate the first pres bush, and admited that he was supporting terrorists and suicide bombers, including several involved in the first trade center bombing...

and there are way too many more things to even write about...

[funketeer]

In this times of deception, one must not only look but observe closely. Take Moore for example, he looks guilty of something...he's not transparent, always with a victory smurk, as if he's saying to someone "Here I go Hollywood!" or "I'm gonna burn your playhouse down" I don't know what it is...but, if his accussations are real and his intentions honest , why the fuck is he smiling so maliciously all the time???

[sobeton]

The film is an insult to anyone's intelligence.

Moore is pandering, to the uninformed, and is more hypocritical than anyone I have ever seen.

a few examples....

Moore uses Wesly Clarke as his moral hero about all the things that should have been done in the war against terrorism. Moore then goes after bush for leting some of the Saudi royal family (including some bin laudins) fly out after the 9/11 attack.

but he doesn't mention that Wesly Clarke is the one who suggested and authorized the flights after the FBI had interviewed or cleared everyone on board.

or

He shows these idlyic pictures of Iraqi civilians (kids flying kites and shit) talking about the people we are killing with our bombs...

but never a word about the 300,000 pluss civilians that Sadam killed or the ones he would have continued to kill.

I'm dissapointed that Moore who I always liked, threw out all standards in making this propiganda...

Talking Points :

the attacks happened in 2001. Wesley Clark retired from the US military and his NATO command in 2000 ,if I am not mistaken. since when do retired military personal, have any authority to make decisions such as the one you suggested? as you recall all air traffic was suspended immediately after the attacks. the only planes authorized to fly where military aircraft. any authorization to fly the Bin Laden family members out; if that is true .would have to been approved by the commander and Chief President Bush. we don't know how many Iraqi civilians, and non combat personal have been killed in Iraq sine we invaded Iraq. since we don't keep such statistics and that came from Pentagon. yes, Moore should have raised issues of Sadams crimes, but less put all the cards on table in all fairness. we invaded Iraq based on rather sketchy intelligence which said ;Saddam was an immediate threat to the US, had WMD, and had aided and harbored terrorist. this has yet to be thoroughly established.

based on what I have read of Moore's movie, I have yet to see it. it's fairly obvious it is very bias, and pandering to the Bush hatters. however, he raises some issues. issues people should take the time to fully research, and not rely on propaganda to form an opnion.then based on such determine, if there is any validity to Moore's claims.

it is fairly obvious to me Saddam was crude and dangerous individual, and Iraq is better off without the bastard. the question is, was it necessary to invade Iraq? instead of utilizing ALL our full resources to get Bin Laden. when we knew he and his high command where moving all over Pakistan.

terrorism is and should be our major concern right now. incidents of terrorism have risen, and I am not naively suggesting only in Iraq. terrorism is increasing world wide, this is a fact. TERRORISM is the battle we need to be fighting with all of our resources. instead of playing this political point the finger bullshit, which only adds fuel to the fire.

we will only defeat Terrorism by being united, honest, and forthright. not only with our own citizens, but with all other countries, who have determined that they will not tolerate terrorism on any level.

oddly some would label my thoughts liberal.LOL having the ability to think outside the box, and not be swayed by what I see as delusional thinking and propaganda. is as American as Apple Pie !

[shroomy]

Talking Points :

the attacks happened in 2001. Wesley Clark retired from the US military and his NATO command in 2000 ,if I am not mistaken. since when do retired military personal, have any authority to make decisions such as the one you suggested? as you recall all air traffic was suspended immediately after the attacks. the only planes authorized to fly where military aircraft.

oops... mistyped... I meant Richard Clarke, Bush's former chief of counterterrorism who came out with such a scathing book about bush's response to 9/11

And he testified to congress that the decision did not go above him.

[shroomy]

Talking Points :

however, he raises some issues. issues people should take the time to fully research, and not rely on propaganda to form an opnion.then based on such determine, if there is any validity to Moore's claims.

That is exactly the problem... just like the war on drugs... when you have lies and totally misrepresented facts, people disregard the whole message.

Moore is usuing the same Rush Limbaugh tactics that he despises the right for.

[shroomy]

incidents of terrorism have risen, and I am not naively suggesting only in Iraq. terrorism is increasing world wide, this is a fact.

actually, no its not a fact. It is just the typicall american reaction to what is on the news.

"There were 208 acts of international terrorism in 2003, a slight increase from the most recently published figure of 198* attacks in 2002, and a 42 percent drop from the level in 2001 of 355 attacks."

and this years statistics actually show a decline in both the numbers of dead and the numbers of incidents, not that you would know from the news.

BTW any guesses on the total number of americans killed last year by terrorists??? ..................................................35, which happens to be one less than the number of women who died from brest augmentation procedures in the state of FL last year.

[sobeton]

That is exactly the problem... just like the war on drugs... when you have lies and totally misrepresented facts, people disregard the whole message.

Moore is usuing the same Rush Limbaugh tactics that he despises the right for.

I would agree. that's why people need to go beyond the hype and propaganda. the information is there, people have to make the effort to seek it out. however, most people are just lazy simply don't care in some cases until something affects them personally. thus they will take what the political parties and media throw at them as the fact. people need to empower themselves to be independent thinkers. as difficult as that is in this era of political and media hype.

[sobeton]

actually, no its not a fact. It is just the typicall american reaction to what is on the news.

"There were 208 acts of international terrorism in 2003, a slight increase from the most recently published figure of 198* attacks in 2002, and a 42 percent drop from the level in 2001 of 355 attacks."

and this years statistics actually show a decline in both the numbers of dead and the numbers of incidents, not that you would know from the news.

BTW any guesses on the total number of americans killed last year by terrorists??? ..................................................35, which happens to be one less than the number of women who died from brest augmentation procedures in the state of FL last year.

Yes, it is a fact. I stated "incidents of terrorism have risen", the report supports that. whether the numbers went up slightly is irrelevant. the fact is they have risen. while the President is telling us we are winning the war on terrorism.

clearly his administrations own report does not support that claim. is that being honest with the citizens? I think not.

are you including non-combat americans killed in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, etc in your figure of americans killed by terrorism?

[fliptoniaaa]

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php

[jeffy1]

big brother is watching-geoge orwell's1984

[shroomy]

are you including non-combat americans killed in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, etc in your figure of americans killed by terrorism?

yeah.........................

Thirty-five U.S. citizens died in international terrorist attacks in 2003:

-- Michael Rene Pouliot was killed on 21 January in Kuwait, when a gunman fired at his vehicle that had halted at a stoplight.

-- Thomas Janis was murdered by Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) terrorists on 13 February in Colombia. Mr. Janis was the pilot of a plane that crashed in the jungle. He and a Colombian service member were wounded in the crash; the terrorists shot them when they were discovered. Three U.S. citizen passengers on the plane -- Keith Stansell, Marc D. Gonsalves, and Thomas R. Howes -- were kidnapped and are still being held hostage as of June 2004 by the FARC.

-- William Hyde was killed on 4 March in Davao, Philippines, when a bomb hidden in a backpack exploded in a crowded airline terminal. Twenty other persons died, and 149 were wounded. The Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) denies any connection to the suspected bomber, who claimed he was a MILF member.

-- Abigail Elizabeth Litle was killed on 5 March, when a suicide bomber boarded a bus in Haifa, Israel, and detonated an explosive device.

-- Rabbi Elnatan Eli Horowitz and his wife, Debra Ruth Horowitz, were killed on 7 March when a Palestinian gunman opened fire on them as they were eating dinner in the settlement of Kiryat Arba.

-- The deadliest anti-U.S. attack occurred in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, on 12 May, when suicide bombers in booby-trapped cars filled with explosives drove into the Vinnell, Jadewel and Al-Hamra housing compounds, killing nine U.S. citizens. Killed at the Vinnell compound were: Obaidah Yusuf Abdullah, Todd Michael Blair, Jason Eric Bentley, James Lee Carpenter II, Herman Diaz, Alex Jackson, Quincy Lee Knox, and Clifford J. Lawson. Mohammed Atef Al Kayyaly was killed at the Al-Hamra compound.

-- Alan Beer and Bertin Joseph Tita were killed on 11 June in a bus bombing near Klal Center on Jaffa Road near Jerusalem.

-- Howard Craig Goldstein was killed in a shooting attack near the West Bank settlement of Ofra on 20 June.

-- Fred Bryant, a civilian contractor, was killed on 5 August in Tikrit, Iraq, when his car ran over an improvised explosive device.

-- Three U.S. citizens were among the victims of a deadly truck bombing of the U.N. headquarters in Baghdad's Canal Hotel on 19 August. They were Arthur Helton, Richard Hooper, and Martha Teas. U.N. Special Representative Sergio Vieira de Mello was also among the 23 fatalities.

-- Five U.S. citizens were killed in Jerusalem on 19 August, when a suicide bomber riding on a bus detonated explosives attached to his body. They were Goldy Zarkowsky, Eli Zarkowsky, Mordechai Reinitz, Yessucher Dov Reinitz, and Tehilla Nathansen. Fifteen other persons were killed and 140 [were] wounded in the attack.

-- Dr. David Applebaum and his daughter, Naava Applebaum, were killed on 9 September in a bombing at the Cafe Hillel in Jerusalem.

-- Three U.S. citizens were killed on 15 October in the Gaza Strip as their U.S. Embassy Tel Aviv motorcade was struck by a roadside bomb. They were John Branchizio, Mark T. Parson, and John Martin Linde, Jr. All three were security contractors to the U.S. Embassy.

-- Lieutenant Colonel Charles H. Buehring was killed on 26 October in Baghdad during a rocket-propelled grenade attack on the Al-Rasheed Hotel. Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul D. Wolfowitz was staying at the hotel at the time of the attack.

-- Two U.S. citizens, William Carlson and Christopher Glenn Mueller, were killed in an ambush by armed militants in Shkin, Afghanistan, on 27 October. Both were U.S. government contract workers.

[funketeer]

I disagree!

[shroomy]

Yes, it is a fact. I stated "incidents of terrorism have risen", the report supports that. whether the numbers went up slightly is irrelevant. the fact is they have risen. while the President is telling us we are winning the war on terrorism.

well... they are down over 40% from the begining of the "War on Terrorism" (what ever that really means)

and winning the war isn't linked to the number of terrorism incidents. It just means we are on our way to destroying the main groups responsible for the majority of them. (not that I totally agree with that either btw) Now if he said "we won" and then we keep seeing attacks, that is a different story.

[funketeer]

The war on drugs? The war on terror? The holy war? You guys are watching to much TV.

If shit's gonna happen, chances are it will, war on terror or not,that's what's so fucked up about terrorism, you don't really know where is going to come from, it takes advantage of the state of mind of people when they are at their most vulnerable...when we feel safe.

All these movies and propaganda are cool, but in no way a good point of reference, Michael Moore might be a genius, but he also forgets that the same way he's been watchin' and pointing his camera at people, he's also being shot by C.I.A. and F.B.I. fo shizzle my nizzle, he's also very easy to spot in the presence of the president, a big fat guy with a beard and a baseball cap...if I was a sniper photographer, that would have been the easiest job in the world...

The road to life is rocky, and you may stumble too. So while you point your fingers, someone else is judging you. - Bob Marley

You know what I mean?

[missionary]

Forget the numbers for just a second...

Anyone who thinks that American citizens are safer (across the globe) today than they were before this disgustingly misguided war in Iraq......

is

[sobeton]

yeah.........................

Thirty-five U.S. citizens died in international terrorist attacks in 2003:

-- Michael Rene Pouliot was killed on 21 January in Kuwait, when a gunman fired at his vehicle that had halted at a stoplight.

-- Thomas Janis was murdered by Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) terrorists on 13 February in Colombia. Mr. Janis was the pilot of a plane that crashed in the jungle. He and a Colombian service member were wounded in the crash; the terrorists shot them when they were discovered. Three U.S. citizen passengers on the plane -- Keith Stansell, Marc D. Gonsalves, and Thomas R. Howes -- were kidnapped and are still being held hostage as of June 2004 by the FARC.

-- William Hyde was killed on 4 March in Davao, Philippines, when a bomb hidden in a backpack exploded in a crowded airline terminal. Twenty other persons died, and 149 were wounded. The Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) denies any connection to the suspected bomber, who claimed he was a MILF member.

-- Abigail Elizabeth Litle was killed on 5 March, when a suicide bomber boarded a bus in Haifa, Israel, and detonated an explosive device.

-- Rabbi Elnatan Eli Horowitz and his wife, Debra Ruth Horowitz, were killed on 7 March when a Palestinian gunman opened fire on them as they were eating dinner in the settlement of Kiryat Arba.

-- The deadliest anti-U.S. attack occurred in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, on 12 May, when suicide bombers in booby-trapped cars filled with explosives drove into the Vinnell, Jadewel and Al-Hamra housing compounds, killing nine U.S. citizens. Killed at the Vinnell compound were: Obaidah Yusuf Abdullah, Todd Michael Blair, Jason Eric Bentley, James Lee Carpenter II, Herman Diaz, Alex Jackson, Quincy Lee Knox, and Clifford J. Lawson. Mohammed Atef Al Kayyaly was killed at the Al-Hamra compound.

-- Alan Beer and Bertin Joseph Tita were killed on 11 June in a bus bombing near Klal Center on Jaffa Road near Jerusalem.

-- Howard Craig Goldstein was killed in a shooting attack near the West Bank settlement of Ofra on 20 June.

-- Fred Bryant, a civilian contractor, was killed on 5 August in Tikrit, Iraq, when his car ran over an improvised explosive device.

-- Three U.S. citizens were among the victims of a deadly truck bombing of the U.N. headquarters in Baghdad's Canal Hotel on 19 August. They were Arthur Helton, Richard Hooper, and Martha Teas. U.N. Special Representative Sergio Vieira de Mello was also among the 23 fatalities.

-- Five U.S. citizens were killed in Jerusalem on 19 August, when a suicide bomber riding on a bus detonated explosives attached to his body. They were Goldy Zarkowsky, Eli Zarkowsky, Mordechai Reinitz, Yessucher Dov Reinitz, and Tehilla Nathansen. Fifteen other persons were killed and 140 [were] wounded in the attack.

-- Dr. David Applebaum and his daughter, Naava Applebaum, were killed on 9 September in a bombing at the Cafe Hillel in Jerusalem.

-- Three U.S. citizens were killed on 15 October in the Gaza Strip as their U.S. Embassy Tel Aviv motorcade was struck by a roadside bomb. They were John Branchizio, Mark T. Parson, and John Martin Linde, Jr. All three were security contractors to the U.S. Embassy.

-- Lieutenant Colonel Charles H. Buehring was killed on 26 October in Baghdad during a rocket-propelled grenade attack on the Al-Rasheed Hotel. Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul D. Wolfowitz was staying at the hotel at the time of the attack.

-- Two U.S. citizens, William Carlson and Christopher Glenn Mueller, were killed in an ambush by armed militants in Shkin, Afghanistan, on 27 October. Both were U.S. government contract workers.

thats based on the white house report, so that is accurate.unless another revised report arises again.