Kerry's latest statements are a disgrace

[igloo]

Keep telling yourself that , you mongoloid .

Keep disrespecting the people who have sacrificed by saying their efforts are a failure when it is not true you cunt.

[mursa]

Keep disrespecting the people who have sacrificed by saying their efforts are a failure when it is not true you cunt.

Don't try and put words in my mouth you mongol ............I'll sacrifice the hawkish fucks who never picked up a rifle in their life and yet send hundreds of thousands to fight an unjust war .

[igloo]

Wait i just want to make sure Kerry did vote for the resolution, but is that the same as voting for war, or is it voting for authorize force as a last resort so that George Bush could go back to the UN and force Saddam to allow the inspectors back in.

SO if he voted for that resolution and says that he would not go to war, and the bush guys say "he voted for the war (lie) and now he says he would not go to war, ohhhh look at the flip flop."

He voted to strengthen the US hand.

and before you say that is bullshit and that voting meant war. This was a quote from bush

"approving this resolution does not mean that military action is imminent or unavoidable." It means that "America speaks with one voice."

Get the facts folks, get the facts.

So you mean, that you actually believe that Kerry voted for war "only" to strengthen Bush's hand........C'mon, u can't be serious....

You are falling for Kerry defense spin of his indefensible flip-flopping on Iraq....you are barking up the wrong tree with this shit...

Despite the fact that Kerry approved of regime change under Clinton and despite the fact that Kerry has been on the record a zillion times about the grave threat from Saddam Hussein....

Obby posted a great video on Kerry's exact words with respects to Iraq and war......it can't be spun

Click Here

[igloo]

an unjust war .

[jtk4]

so its your opinion it is spin. That does not make it true. Bush himself said he would veto the bill. I have no problems if he had a problem on how the money is spent.

Kerry has consistently maintained his position on how the Iraq situation should be handled. His criticisms have become more strongly worded as it has become increasingly clear how badly George Bush has mishandled the situation, but his stance has remained the same. Kerry had stated for years that Saddam Hussein was a serious problem, and had advocated for strong and effective action. He was also crystal-clear that a key component of effective action was to use diplomacy to step up the international pressure on Hussein to permit inspections and to disarm. Direct military intervention was to be used only as the final option. He made it clear in his October 9th, 2002 statement (days before the vote on the authorization of the use of force) that he understood President Bush to share the commitment to using military force only as a last resort, and to making every effort to bring allies into the effort.

During the run-up to war, Kerry spoke out repeatedly against George Bush's headlong rush to invasion. Since Bush declared "Mission Accomplished," Kerry has clearly pointed out the failures of Bush's Iraq policy -- the same failures which Kerry warned against in the period leading up to the war.

Kerry always supported the goal of disarming Saddam Hussein, but he was also clear that there were right ways and wrong ways to do it. Kerry has also consistently stated that he does not believe President Bush exhausted the alternatives to war. The results of rushing to war prematurely are now clear in the many ways the war has been mishandled. Kerry has never wavered from his position that he voted correctly to affirm the President's authority to handle the situation, and that George Bush misused the authority and bungled the job.

Bush continually presses Kerry to change his position on these key points, and Kerry has stated repeatedly that his position is unchanged. Bush has bent over backwards to claim that Kerry's refusal to change his stance somehow counts as "flip-flopping." In fact, Kerry's position has remained steadfast.

but when you do not agree you call it spin, that is the way this works. Either that or you give the jerk-off smiley.

[jtk4]

"I'm prepared to spend whatever it takes to be successful in Iraq. But I want to spend the money smart. I don't want to spend 87 billion dollars, when it comes from the average American, when it ought to be coming from the wealthiest Americans instead." — John Kerry, Senate floor, October 17, 2003

[igloo]

so its your opinion it is spin. That does not make it true. Bush himself said he would veto the bill. I have no problems if he had a problem on how the money is spent.

Kerry has consistently maintained his position on how the Iraq situation should be handled. His criticisms have become more strongly worded as it has become increasingly clear how badly George Bush has mishandled the situation, but his stance has remained the same. Kerry had stated for years that Saddam Hussein was a serious problem, and had advocated for strong and effective action. He was also crystal-clear that a key component of effective action was to use diplomacy to step up the international pressure on Hussein to permit inspections and to disarm. Direct military intervention was to be used only as the final option. He made it clear in his October 9th, 2002 statement (days before the vote on the authorization of the use of force) that he understood President Bush to share the commitment to using military force only as a last resort, and to making every effort to bring allies into the effort.

During the run-up to war, Kerry spoke out repeatedly against George Bush's headlong rush to invasion. Since Bush declared "Mission Accomplished," Kerry has clearly pointed out the failures of Bush's Iraq policy -- the same failures which Kerry warned against in the period leading up to the war.

Kerry always supported the goal of disarming Saddam Hussein, but he was also clear that there were right ways and wrong ways to do it. Kerry has also consistently stated that he does not believe President Bush exhausted the alternatives to war. The results of rushing to war prematurely are now clear in the many ways the war has been mishandled. Kerry has never wavered from his position that he voted correctly to affirm the President's authority to handle the situation, and that George Bush misused the authority and bungled the job.

Bush continually presses Kerry to change his position on these key points, and Kerry has stated repeatedly that his position is unchanged. Bush has bent over backwards to claim that Kerry's refusal to change his stance somehow counts as "flip-flopping." In fact, Kerry's position has remained steadfast.

but when you do not agree you call it spin, that is the way this works. Either that or you give the jerk-off smiley.

Good answer....sounds like it came right from the Kerry campiagn....hmmm-- guess your right....and even Democratic strategists who cringe at his flip-flopping and work so hard to correct it must be wrong too

I specifically noticed this one sentence...Direct military intervention was to be used only as the final option.....interesting.

There was absolutely ZERO rush to war....that is spin...not disagreement, but spin........mistakes made have nothing to do with "rushing" to war, but insetad faulty intelligence and faulty assumptions.....the "rushing" to war is compete bullshit--and I hope you know better

And bringing allies into it--u r not really going there, are you?

[igloo]

"I'm prepared to spend whatever it takes to be successful in Iraq. But I want to spend the money smart. I don't want to spend 87 billion dollars, when it comes from the average American, when it ought to be coming from the wealthiest Americans instead." — John Kerry, Senate floor, October 17, 2003

Bottom line: He voted against it. And lke I said, go reseacrh the real reason why he voted against it.

[sobeton]

it seemed rather odd and quite frankly defied common sense, why a senator would vote against a bill; which was meant to strength our troops. clearly there was a reason John Kerry voted against the bill. the fact is Kerry voted for the first version of the bill, and against the final version as a protest... protest to what you might ask? well ,a protest to how monies where being spent, and the source of those funds. in hindsight the protest was kind of stupid, because in an election year involving an administration laced in spin. it should have been obvious to Kerry, his crafty opponents would distort the facts, and focus on his vote against the bill. Kerry and his team until recently did a horrible job explaining this vote. this bill was going to pass no matter what, its obvious Kerry knew this thus his protest would really be mute. he was not against spending money to protect our troops; he was against the reconstruction part of the bill. most people never question why the troops did not have body armor which was a part of the bill, prior to going into Iraq. nor do they question why Bush threaten to veto this bill. that I find a bit odd.

[sobeton]

You should have known about the speech and Kerry's press conference BEFORE the article was posted retard....

You would think that if you support Kerry, you would have been clued in to this already.....I have already saw the speech live, watched both sides dissect it, and watched Kerry's press conference live....and agree with Peters.....perhaps if your head was not entrenched in your rotted ass, you wouldn't be crying about an author's "rhetoric", and would have known about something given by someone you support....the question is why didn't you know about it....the answer is because you are a clueless blowhard....

Iraq is not a failure.....period. Despicable use of the word.

sorry, I don’t get to catch every speech John Kerry gives. the author never directly quotes Kerry in the article, or offers a footnote to speech. thus it amounts to the author’s interpretation; which amounts to rhetoric IMO... hence my query as to the actual text of the speech. why don’t you just post the text of the speech? seems like a pretty simple request for somebody, who has heard and seen the speech as you claim.

sorry if my use of the word "failure" seems appalling to you , however it seems quite appropriate with regard to Iraq.

[BRIANC1046]

First off, as a man who served, and a well respected commentator on military affairs, Peters has a right to speak, has earned the right to speak, and is not just some bafoon you can cast off into "conservative.com" world.....

Secondly, Peters is referring to Kerry's recent empty speech on Iraq, his anti-war remarks the last few days, his ABSURD and DESPICABLE flip-flops on Iraq, and worst of all...the defeatism and recklessness is his comments.

Lastly, say what you want about Bush, but this guy Kerry and the campaign he is running is a disaster....

Peters is the same man that said If American soldiers aren't dying the military isn't doing its job

[sonice]

There was no reason for us to go into Iraq with the evidence we had. There are alot more stronger and threatening situations than the nonsense stated in the reasons to go in IRAQ. Now their attempt to democracy is going to be our problem. In all honesty, Saddam was not as much a threat as stated. While we are at it, why don't we go after IRAN and No. Korea. We'll just leave the issues in the Sudan alone being there's no money to be made there and no immediate threat.

Thanks for listening.

[igloo]

sorry, I don’t get to catch every speech John Kerry gives. the author never directly quotes Kerry in the article, or offers a footnote to speech. thus it amounts to the author’s interpretation; which amounts to rhetoric IMO... hence my query as to the actual text of the speech. why don’t you just post the text of the speech? seems like a pretty simple request for somebody, who has heard and seen the speech as you claim.

sorry if my use of the word "failure" seems appalling to you , however it seems quite appropriate with regard to Iraq.

Sorry retard, no one is saying you can "catch" every Kerry speech...but when it is labled as a "major" policy speech, carried live by the cable news outlets, analyzed to death for days by all, and then followed by his first press conference the next day, you would think someone who supports Kerry would know a little something about it....

Speaks volume about your bloviating that you knew nothing about it....

Now, for someone who is a blowhard like yourself, and a Kerry supporter, instead of crying about an author, go read the speech for yourself.....go find it yourself.....go get informed on your own.....pull your head out of your ass on your own.....seems like a pretty simple thing to do.....

Since you did not know about the speech, how about kerry's remarks about Allawi......do you think undermining the PM Allawi is something that is wise, useful, or constructive?

Using the word failure with Iraq is repulsive.....end of story.

[igloo]

it seemed rather odd and quite frankly defied common sense, why a senator would vote against a bill; which was meant to strength our troops. clearly there was a reason John Kerry voted against the bill. the fact is Kerry voted for the first version of the bill, and against the final version as a protest... protest to what you might ask? well ,a protest to how monies where being spent, and the source of those funds. in hindsight the protest was kind of stupid, because in an election year involving an administration laced in spin. it should have been obvious to Kerry, his crafty opponents would distort the facts, and focus on his vote against the bill. Kerry and his team until recently did a horrible job explaining this vote. this bill was going to pass no matter what, its obvious Kerry knew this thus his protest would really be mute. he was not against spending money to protect our troops; he was against the reconstruction part of the bill. most people never question why the troops did not have body armor which was a part of the bill, prior to going into Iraq. nor do they question why Bush threaten to veto this bill. that I find a bit odd.

But the bottom line is Kerry voted against the bill. He voted AGAINST the bill. That is it

And again, the reasoning you are offering is not factual or true. It is spin. Go do some research on why Kerry really voted against the bill. All bullshit aside.

[sobeton]

Sorry retard, no one is saying you can "catch" every Kerry speech...but when it is labled as a "major" policy speech, carried live by the cable news outlets, analyzed to death for days by all, and then followed by his first press conference the next day, you would think someone who supports Kerry would know a little something about it....

Speaks volume about your bloviating that you knew nothing about it....

Now, for someone who is a blowhard like yourself, and a Kerry supporter, instead of crying about an author, go read the speech for yourself.....go find it yourself.....go get informed on your own.....pull your head out of your ass on your own.....seems like a pretty simple thing to do.....

Since you did not know about the speech, how about kerry's remarks about Allawi......do you think undermining the PM Allawi is something that is wise, useful, or constructive?

Using the word failure with Iraq is repulsive.....end of story.

your continued need to be condescending is amusing and somewhat childish. however, I’ve come expect that from a person who has no real position on anything, and likes to tip toe offer issues you are incapable of debating in a civilized manner. it's fascinating you rely so heavily on other people’s thoughts and writings, and attempt to disguises them as your own opinions. your postings make you seem as though your some ranting lunatic, I’m quite sure that observation is not to far off the mark.

Allawi comments where inconsistent with the Presidents own words, I believe Mursa quoted one of inconsistencies from Allawi. Allawi's comments should be talked about and debated; neither undermines the operation in Iraq.

[sobeton]

But the bottom line is Kerry voted against the bill. He voted AGAINST the bill. That is it

And again, the reasoning you are offering is not factual or true. It is spin. Go do some research on why Kerry really voted against the bill. All bullshit aside.

the bottom line is he voted against the bill with a reason. you tell everyone who challenges you "to go do some research" Well Igloo w,hy don’t you provide your research? if you are going to state something is not factual or true then prove it.

I’m sure you will say this is spin from me. however it is an attempt, to let, you prove previous comments made by me relating to bill are not factual or true.

[igloo]

your continued need to be condescending is amusing and somewhat childish. however, I’ve come expect that from a person who has no real position on anything, and likes to tip toe offer issues you are incapable of debating in a civilized manner. it's fascinating you rely so heavily on other people’s thoughts and writings, and attempt to disguises them as your own opinions. your postings make you seem as though your some ranting lunatic, I’m quite sure that observation is not to far off the mark.

Allawi comments where inconsistent with the Presidents own words, I believe Mursa quoted one of inconsistencies from Allawi. Allawi's comments should be talked about and debated; neither undermines the operation in Iraq.

I would say your uneducated and ill-informed views , statements, and bloviating are childish.....and certainly not amusing, simply sad and pathetic

"Fascinating how I rely on other's people thoughts and writings"...

You are so fucking stupid it is unreal....right, I don't have my own opinions...what a stupid fucking, idiotic, baseless statememt by you..

....and BTW, with respects to others people writings and opinions that I read(from both sides I may add, which includes books, papers, essays, editorials, studies, humans from around the world, etc), it is part of being informed....you should try it you stupid retard....what a fucking idiotic statement by you....especially coming from someone who just regurgitates Michael Moorisms....stupid jerkoff

Nice "analysis" of Allawi and Kerry's comments.....if you do not think that Kerry's attack on Allawi was not reckless and irresponsible, than you are even dumber that I thought....does not undermine things in Iraq, and Allawi's position??--how fucking stupid could you possible be....another glaring example of the depths of your idiosy....

I recommend keeping your head in your ass, in the hope it prevents you from vomiting your idiosy.....

BTW--there is an Presidential election coming up soon....Being that someone you claim to support is running in it, and you had no idea of your candidates recent major policy speech, I thought it would be helpful to let you know......

[igloo]

the bottom line is he voted against the bill with a reason. you tell everyone who challenges you "to go do some research" Well Igloo w,hy don’t you provide your research? if you are going to state something is not factual or true then prove it.

I’m sure you will say this is spin from me. however it is an attempt, to let, you prove previous comments made by me relating to bill are not factual or true.

Go do the research yourself....go learn something for yourself...show that you can actually be informed on your own instead of bloviating.......HINT: Howard Dean and misguided political strategy

And the bottom line is he voted against the bill. Period.

[jtk4]

I just do not see why someone who is running for president would vote against money for troops. it would be political suicde, it would not make any sense. These are not dumb people, but that would be a dumb ass thing to do. That is why i think that the reason behind it, and factor in the shadyness of haliburton, would cause kerry to vote against it. Shit i probably would too, because there is no sense to give money if it is not used correctly.

[sobeton]

Go do the research yourself....go learn something for yourself...show that you can actually be informed on your own instead of bloviating.......HINT: Howard Dean and misguided political strategy

And the bottom line is he voted against the bill. Period.

do the research yourself. :spin:

Please read below:

the bottom line is he voted against the bill with a reason. you tell everyone who challenges you "to go do some research" Well Igloo w,hy don’t you provide your research? if you are going to state something is not factual or true then prove it.

I’m sure you will say this is spin from me. however it is an attempt, to let, you prove previous comments made by me relating to bill are not factual or true.

I rest my case.

[igloo]

do the research yourself. :spin:

Please read below:

I rest my case.

I gave you the hint mentally challenged jerkoff....let's see what you can do with it...it should be quite simple, even for someone as challenged as yourself

[sobeton]

I would say your uneducated and ill-informed views , statements, and bloviating are childish.....and certainly not amusing, simply sad and pathetic

"Fascinating how I rely on other's people thoughts and writings"...

You are so fucking stupid it is unreal....right, I don't have my own opinions...what a stupid fucking, idiotic, baseless statememt by you..

....and BTW, with respects to others people writings and opinions that I read(from both sides I may add, which includes books, papers, essays, editorials, studies, humans from around the world, etc), it is part of being informed....you should try it you stupid retard....what a fucking idiotic statement by you....especially coming from someone who just regurgitates Michael Moorisms....stupid jerkoff

Nice "analysis" of Allawi and Kerry's comments.....if you do not think that Kerry's attack on Allawi was not reckless and irresponsible, than you are even dumber that I thought....does not undermine things in Iraq, and Allawi's position??--how fucking stupid could you possible be....another glaring example of the depths of your idiosy....

I recommend keeping your head in your ass, in the hope it prevents you from vomiting your idiosy.....

BTW--there is an Presidential election coming up soon....Being that someone you claim to support is running in it, and you had no idea of your candidates recent major policy speech, I thought it would be helpful to let you know......

you should not use words such as respect (or "respects" as you stated ) you have no idea what the word means. the rest your nonsense isn’t worth replying to, as it is consistent with ranting lunatic style of debate you usually put forth. this basically amounts to a pissing match, which quite frankly I’m not remotely interested in.

[igloo]

I just do not see why someone who is running for president would vote against money for troops. it would be political suicde, it would not make any sense. These are not dumb people, but that would be a dumb ass thing to do. That is why i think that the reason behind it, and factor in the shadyness of haliburton, would cause kerry to vote against it. Shit i probably would too, because there is no sense to give money if it is not used correctly.

Kerry, or more so his team, made a political calculation that was seriously misguided....There were a couple of Dem operatives on the other night on different channels, saying that if Kerry loses, this political miscalculation (along with the Vietnam stuff of course) will be remembered, as you mentioned, as political suicide.....he handed the GOP on a silver platter the ability to define him or reinforce the image of Kerry as a flip-flopper...

[igloo]

you should not use words such as respect (or "respects" as you stated ) you have no idea what the word means. the rest your nonsense isn’t worth replying to, as it is consistent with ranting lunatic style of debate you usually put forth. this basically amounts to a pissing match, which quite frankly I’m not remotely interested in.

case closed.

[sobeton]

I gave you the hint mentally challenged jerkoff....let's see what you can do with it...it should be quite simple, even for someone as challenged as yourself

I have taken the liberty to use your best reply in this thread

it would seem appropriate to use it here.