Battle for Fallujah

[kramadas]

But, the difference between the US and the Insurgents is we regret the civilian deaths caused in the war and the insurgents target them.

Remember this in March?

"Four contractors working for the US army have been killed and their bodies mutilated in the Iraqi city of Falluja. The group were shot and burnt in their cars, before a cheering crowd dismembered the corpses and hung two of them from a bridge."

Amy - I agree with the first part of your statement. However, unless there is more being done to convince the regular iraqis that this is the case, they will keep on thinking the US is indiscriminate in their attacks. For that matter, how do you know, as a person that this is NOT the case. None of us do, as we are not right there. The actions of even a few bad soldiers could give a very negative impact of the whole US army. Just as I've seen in this country how the actions of just a few terrorists has given many people here a negative impression of all Iraqis.

The second part about the contractors - there was a LOT more going on behind the scenes as far as I know that caused that overwhelming, violent response. There was an article I posted many weeks ago talking about Bremer's "shock and awe" economic policy. Basically a lot of local factories (eg, cement, brick factories, etc) were closed down or put on hold, while many things that could have been made in Iraq were imported from other countries for a higher cost. As a result, many many people lost their jobs, the army was disbanded (more people lost jobs), and the civilian (Bremer) administration did not do enough to address these problems. Meanwhile, these capitalists from other countries descended on Iraq looking for investment potential, which in the eyes of normal unemployed Iraqis seemed like the US was just giving away opportunities to foreigners. Remember the numerous protests Iraqis staged because of unemployment (prior to that incident). Add to it the fact that Fallujah was hit the worst(or at least one of the worst) because it was a city that used to be in Saddam's favor, and there was just intense resentment for toward americans. And guess who was guarding the rich contractors - security personnel. So, while I don't condone this sort of attitude, angry mobs sometimes do the worst things (its happened in the US many times). You can't just point to mobs in third world countries and say "oh what animals" while forgeting whats happened in developed countries as well.

[amyscottsdale]

Amy - I agree with the first part of your statement. However, unless there is more being done to convince the regular iraqis that this is the case, they will keep on thinking the US is indiscriminate in their attacks. For that matter, how do you know, as a person that this is NOT the case. None of us do, as we are not right there. The actions of even a few bad soldiers could give a very negative impact of the whole US army. Just as I've seen in this country how the actions of just a few terrorists has given many people here a negative impression of all Iraqis.

The second part about the contractors - there was a LOT more going on behind the scenes as far as I know that caused that overwhelming, violent response. There was an article I posted many weeks ago talking about Bremer's "shock and awe" economic policy. Basically a lot of local factories (eg, cement, brick factories, etc) were closed down or put on hold, while many things that could have been made in Iraq were imported from other countries for a higher cost. As a result, many many people lost their jobs, the army was disbanded (more people lost jobs), and the civilian (Bremer) administration did not do enough to address these problems. Meanwhile, these capitalists from other countries descended on Iraq looking for investment potential, which in the eyes of normal unemployed Iraqis seemed like the US was just giving away opportunities to foreigners. Remember the numerous protests Iraqis staged because of unemployment (prior to that incident). Add to it the fact that Fallujah was hit the worst(or at least one of the worst) because it was a city that used to be in Saddam's favor, and there was just intense resentment for toward americans. And guess who was guarding the rich contractors - security personnel. So, while I don't condone this sort of attitude, angry mobs sometimes do the worst things (its happened in the US many times). You can't just point to mobs in third world countries and say "oh what animals" while forgeting whats happened in developed countries as well.

Oh, I agree that the planning was horrible, but that does not change the fact that I wish our troops the greatest success in this battle and pray for their safe return.

[jtk4]

well the army should of been disbanded after all they were fighting us

[kramadas]

Oh, I agree that the planning was horrible, but that does not change the fact that I wish our troops the greatest success in this battle and pray for their safe return.

Very true.

[kramadas]

well the army should of been disbanded after all they were fighting us

They should have removed the leadership (Baath party members) not everyone else. These guys were just following orders anyway - and they would have kept the experience. Even a US officer (major or something) said something to that effect after all the shit started happening.

[jtk4]

would you trust them?

[kramadas]

would you trust them?

As far as I know a lot of these ex-army have now been allowed to join the police and new army. Hell ( I can't back this up now, need to find the article) - they got people as high up as majors back in.

Thing is, these guys are now unemployed, frustrated, and thus makes them perfect candidates for the insurgency.

[karch]

Too bad they probably didn't kill those guys, but got this kid...

Fallujah:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/041111/481/jbm20611110150&e=1&ncid=1479

[amyscottsdale]

Too bad they probably didn't kill those guys, but got this kid...

Fallujah:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/041111/481/jbm20611110150&e=1&ncid=1479

and if you read the article you can see that the boy is being cared for in a US combat hospital. Do the insurgents bring the children that they blow up to hospitals? Of course not.

[amyscottsdale]

Hostage Discovered in Fallujah Prison

Thursday, November 11, 2004

BAGHDAD, Iraq — U.S. troops found a hostage imprisoned in Fallujah (search), the military said Thursday. The man, who appeared not to be a Westerner, was chained and malnourished.

Marines spokeman Maj. Francis Piccoli (search) said the man was chained and shackled at his wrists and ankles when troops discovered him Wednesday afternoon in a building in a northeastern district of the city.

Piccoli said he did not know the man's nationality but that he was not an American or Westerner.

The man had been beaten by his captors and was very malnourished, according to medical assessments.

A variety of weapons was discovered at the site as well, he said.

[obby]

Oh, I agree that the planning was horrible, but that does not change the fact that I wish our troops the greatest success in this battle and pray for their safe return.

Amen to that. Spoken like a true American !!!!!!

I was informed that 75 Billion have already been put aside for the rebuilding of Fallujah and that as of Yesterday 65% of the city is in US control. THAT's GREAT !!!!!!!!! All this from an e-mail I received from a cousin fighting in Iraq. Our troops also found the house where most of the beheadings took place. Not only did we find that human slaughter house but we uncovered a bunch of the videos which have been aired already and the background tarps/sheets which were used to conceal their location. Ohhh and we free a hostage who was tied by chains to the ceiling and had electrical wires connected to his balls. I wonder how much that Iraqi loves us now?

OK haters...time to throw in your negative comments.

Abu Ghraib

Terrorist Have Rights Too

We Killed Innocent People (Even

Though We Gave Them Days Of

Warining That We Were About To Go Into Fallujah)

Wrong War Wrong Time

It's All Fake

Lada Lada Lada

Ohhh and we will continue to target ANYWHERE the insurgents decide to hide their weapons stash. Shame they have to hide them in schools, mosques and hospitals. Is that considered smart on their part? Hummmmmm

[dnice35]

Terrorist Have Rights Too

yeah they have the right to die and go to hell!

and we have the right to send them there.

[karch]

and if you read the article you can see that the boy is being cared for in a US combat hospital. Do the insurgents bring the children that they blow up to hospitals? Of course not.

Did I say the insurgents are good people? Tell me where I said in this post that they are good people? You judging US soldiers on the same scale as you would judge an insurgent is ludicras. Your trying to say, "It's ok for us to kill children, because terrorists kill children too, but they don't bring them to the hospital"

I protested against the war every opportunity I've had.

But I find it funny when people want to support the troops, why don't they go fight with them, instead of typing behind a computer encouraging them to put their lives in harms way and kill others.

[jtk4]

Ohhh and we will continue to target ANYWHERE the insurgents decide to hide their weapons stash. Shame they have to hide them in schools, mosques and hospitals. Is that considered smart on their part? Hummmmmm

well yeah it is smart because then we look like assholes when we bomb it.

[jtk4]

I protested against the war every opportunity I've had.

But I find it funny when people want to support the troops, why don't they go fight with them, instead of typing behind a computer encouraging them to put their lives in harms way and kill others.

I do not think you can not support your troops while being at home, or not joining the army. I support the astronauts does not mean i will go into space.

Maybe people can support others who kill people but could not pull the trigger themselves. Or maybe they are fucking fat and would not be able to go through boot camp. Or maybe some people just like getting ass too much. I support the troops just not what they are doing if that makes sense.

[amyscottsdale]

Did I say the insurgents are good people? Tell me where I said in this post that they are good people? You judging US soldiers on the same scale as you would judge an insurgent is ludicras. Your trying to say, "It's ok for us to kill children, because terrorists kill children too, but they don't bring them to the hospital"

I protested against the war every opportunity I've had.

But I find it funny when people want to support the troops, why don't they go fight with them, instead of typing behind a computer encouraging them to put their lives in harms way and kill others.

The troops are out there defending your way of life whether you are smart enough to appreciate that or not.

And this post is not about whether the war is a good idea or not or whether it is being well run, it is a post to say to the troops, 'please win this battle and have a safe return.' Surely that is a sentiment even your cold heart could share.

[amyscottsdale]

I would like to be the first to congratulate the brave soldiers of the United States for taking over Falluja, killing over 1200 terrorists, rescuing thousands of civilians, rescuing a hostage, and discovering several hostage slaughterhouses.

Good work boys!

[pookie23]

....But I find it funny when people want to support the troops, why don't they go fight with them, instead of typing behind a computer encouraging them to put their lives in harms way and kill others.

Like you've ever been in ANY type of fight you pussy...that excuse is a complete and total cop-out.

[obby]

I would like to be the first to congratulate the brave soldiers of the United States for taking over Falluja, killing over 1200 terrorists, rescuing thousands of civilians, rescuing a hostage, and discovering several hostage slaughterhouses.

Good work boys!

I'm with you Amy !!!!!!!

Our boys (and girls) don't play. I personally can't wait till our technology evolves to the point where our soldiers are put less in harms way and yet the job still gets done. Till then I wish them all a mission accomplished and a safe return.