Innocent UNTIL Proven Guilty...My NYC Subway Experience

[LESjunkie]

So, I was at Grand Central the other day, trying to get down to the 4-5-6 to get back downtown. I went to go through the turnstile with my MONTHLY card (TransitChek monthly unlimited) and suddenly the turnstiles stopped working. I mean, across the board, the entire floor everyone was struggling to get thru.

Obviously that area is congested enough with operable turnstiles. People began to congregate and get annoyed, and I was stuffed against the turnstile unable to go anywhere but forward. ( I mean, I could have been a dick and shouted for everyone to back up, but im not into subway dialogue with strangers, and the fat ass behind me was nasty). So I saw cops right ahead, so I looked at them, figured they saw the commotion behind me, and I hopped over.

I walked right to them and was like, "man, that was crazy," and they put me against the wall and took my ID and got all crazy on me! I said, "Are you kidding me, youy just witnessed all that! why are you doing this to me?" needless to say they were very arrogant and were threatening me with jail if I didnt shut up. I asked "Are you even a person?" and then I was directed to be quiet until my ticket was issued.

So I shut up.

But the whole time I was shocked that they could actually do that to me when they saw that all go down. Clearly the turnstiles got fucked and everyone was pushing. Clearly the person behind me weighed at least twice as much as me....and clearly I was not trying to evade anything.

SO when I was finally allowed to speak, they told me it didnt matter, that I hopped it and it wasnt open to discussion. They said I should have shouted for them and gotten their attention, when i thought i did. Two people came up to them to help me and the cops told them to go away.

The best part. Other people jumped and got away with it. THEN, while they were jacking me up, (never in my life have I had an altercation with the cops (except once at the circus when i was little, i threw a rock at a ride operator) so this was all new to me) they caught this degererate kid hopping the turnstile, they brought him over.....and in front of me let him go. It was as if they had a vendetta against me...at that point I just laughed. It was so over-the-top it was amusing.

So im going to go to court to fight this. I dont care if it takes half my day and I have to go to Brooklyn. The reason I post this is because I was wondering if any of you have ever fought anything in the 'Transit Adjudication Bureau" in Brooklyn. How do you think I should proceed? And dont say just pay it. im not doing that and I dont care if it is the easiest way.

I feel passionately about this. My hearing date is on or before 4-20 (hehe) at 8:30am. (definitely passion if im gonna wake up and go to brooklyn at the ass-crack of dawn).

Judging from the "on or before" requirement, the cop doesnt have to be there? What the hell is that? I thought if cops dont show up then the ticket gets dismissed.

And what sort of documentation can I get? I try to call the TransitChek dept and they are totally unhelpful. How the hell can I even prove this?

Clearly I dont live in Westchester anymore. There one could just call the judge at home the day of the occurrence and it would disappear. That tight-knit community life came in handy in moments like this.

[Guest nickjunkie]

That's really rough, but unfortunately you seem to have gotten a taste of what a large section of the population gets every day.

Good luck fighting it though, I have a feeling that anyone with the will to actually protest it and go to court, will proabably have the ticket dropped...

[tgibson]

My thoughts - and Nick, I think you're probably right, if you show up there and wait to get before the judge and dress all nice-like, you'll probably win. That should be the only goal...

(1) Any chance you got any names/numbers of witnesses who can attest to the craziness that was going on there at the time?

(2) Your MetroPass is valid, right? This will be the biggest point you'll have. If it's valid, there is no reason why you'd jump over. Did you show it to the cops at the time?

I am sure they are going to bring up all the added precautions on the subway bullcrap due to the bombings...that will be there big argument - they need to make sure they are very safe on the subways...

How much is the fine for? Any time this kind of thing is involved I would take a SOFT approach, and not try to make the cops looks bad etc... (again, this could just be my paranoia, but I always weigh the cost-benefit of stuff like this):

(a) you want to not pay the ticket, obviously that has real value to you and should be the main goal of the appearance.

( it's atrocious that they did this, but "getting back at them" doesn't really add any value to your life (except maybe a feeling of satisfaction)...i would just worry (again, my paranoia) that they would somehow have your name and the next time you get caught doing WHATEVER, they see that you got one of their cop buddies in trouble and they give you a very hard time or whatever...it's a slim chance, but given that you don't gain much from embarrassing them with a hard-line approach, that's why I'd take a very soft stance with them in court... (and I'm not trying to be a pansie here, I just don't see any value in making them look bad...who knows what the ramifications on the downside could be? the upside is zero.)

Just my two pennies.

Fight the power...

[LESjunkie]

My thoughts - and Nick, I think you're probably right, if you show up there and wait to get before the judge and dress all nice-like, you'll probably win. That should be the only goal...

(1) Any chance you got any names/numbers of witnesses who can attest to the craziness that was going on there at the time?

(2) Your MetroPass is valid, right? This will be the biggest point you'll have. If it's valid, there is no reason why you'd jump over. Did you show it to the cops at the time?

I am sure they are going to bring up all the added precautions on the subway bullcrap due to the bombings...that will be there big argument - they need to make sure they are very safe on the subways...

How much is the fine for? Any time this kind of thing is involved I would take a SOFT approach, and not try to make the cops looks bad etc... (again, this could just be my paranoia, but I always weigh the cost-benefit of stuff like this):

(a) you want to not pay the ticket, obviously that has real value to you and should be the main goal of the appearance.

( it's atrocious that they did this, but "getting back at them" doesn't really add any value to your life (except maybe a feeling of satisfaction)...i would just worry (again, my paranoia) that they would somehow have your name and the next time you get caught doing WHATEVER, they see that you got one of their cop buddies in trouble and they give you a very hard time or whatever...it's a slim chance, but given that you don't gain much from embarrassing them with a hard-line approach, that's why I'd take a very soft stance with them in court... (and I'm not trying to be a pansie here, I just don't see any value in making them look bad...who knows what the ramifications on the downside could be? the upside is zero.)

Just my two pennies.

Fight the power...

you all know my motto is Fight the Power and i will question authority until the day I die. But, like you say, these types of endeavors need to be taken wisely and calmly, especially when dealing with the NYPD and NYC judicial system. When I said to the cop, "You saw this, why dont you believe me?" his response was "I get tons of people who lie to my face everyday." and I said I understood, and left it at that...because I can empathize with the fact that they deal with liars and killers and all that on a daily basis. So I want to research and figure out what the best way is to proceed.

I didnt get any witness names or any of that. No one would want to deal with that for a mere transit violation.

The ticket is $60, but the principle of goes way beyond that.

My metropass was valid for the month. I still have it, and I have contacted the traisit department at my company to try to get me some sort of document that says I had a March transitcheck to complement the card I have here.

other than that I really dont see anything else I can do but bring that in, explain the situation, and hope they believe me. The thing is, I think the officer should be there, because he can attest to the fact that the turnstiles were inoperable. A big question I have is...why doesnt the cop have to be present? anywhere else , if the cop isnt present, the ticket is dismissed!

[Guest LeVeL]

They got a vendetta against you all due to this right here~~~~~> I sleep with Latins but love the Dutch as friends. ;D Good luck on winning that court battle ticket.

[LESjunkie]

They got a vendetta against you all due to this right here~~~~~> I sleep with Latins but love the Dutch as friends. ;D Good luck on winning that court battle ticket.

my sexual and platonic affinity with certain foreigners should, in no way, affect my civil liberties or cause the NYPD to profile me.

[tgibson]

There's no profiling. They were just doing their jobs, albeit poorly. You'll win.

You should bring a law student as an attorney to represent you...would be funny.

;D

[LESjunkie]

There's no profiling. They were just doing their jobs, albeit poorly. You'll win.

You should bring a law student as an attorney to represent you...would be funny.

;D

funny you should say that (still no one remembers this part from the movie 25th hour???)!

because joey has kindly provided me with the ordinance outlining conduct, etc in the subway, so I am going to fish thru that and think back to my poli sci minor to try to find some sort of legal excuse for this.

[Guest LeVeL]

There's no profiling. They were just doing their jobs, albeit poorly. You'll win.

You should bring a law student as an attorney to represent you...would be funny.

;D

funny you should say that (still no one remembers this part from the movie 25th hour???)!

because joey has kindly provided me with the ordinance outlining conduct, etc in the subway, so I am going to fish thru that and think back to my poli sci minor to try to find some sort of legal excuse for this.

"Funny you should say that"........LOL that was some funny shit that Saragusa played the Russian guy in that movie. You dont know how much I love that movie. It has a lot of lessons in that movie. Great Movie.

[tgibson]

There's no profiling. They were just doing their jobs, albeit poorly. You'll win.

You should bring a law student as an attorney to represent you...would be funny.

;D

funny you should say that (still no one remembers this part from the movie 25th hour???)!

because joey has kindly provided me with the ordinance outlining conduct, etc in the subway, so I am going to fish thru that and think back to my poli sci minor to try to find some sort of legal excuse for this.

"Funny you should say that"........LOL that was some funny shit that Saragusa played the Russian guy in that movie. You dont know how much I love that movie. It has a lot of lessons in that movie. Great Movie.

Goooooooose...!

He's great. I bet he could eat a whole house if he had enough ketchup.

[LESjunkie]

There's no profiling. They were just doing their jobs, albeit poorly. You'll win.

You should bring a law student as an attorney to represent you...would be funny.

;D

funny you should say that (still no one remembers this part from the movie 25th hour???)!

because joey has kindly provided me with the ordinance outlining conduct, etc in the subway, so I am going to fish thru that and think back to my poli sci minor to try to find some sort of legal excuse for this.

"Funny you should say that"........LOL that was some funny shit that Saragusa played the Russian guy in that movie. You dont know how much I love that movie. It has a lot of lessons in that movie. Great Movie.

damn, Luis you always manage to earn a few cool points daily. Yes that movie is so great...the balance of comedy with serious elements was superb.