Sicko. The war has begun. Pharma 1 - Sicko 0

[Guest pod]

What's your point? That they should quit trying to do anything to improve society just because they are rich?

Not one bit. Him, Paris, and whomever need to realize they're subject to the same laws as us. If this becomes more common, it'll get bad. I mean, right now I could go to Cuba and be like, "Well, Michael Moore went without permission, what makes him so special?"

[Guest endymion]

Moore insists he'd still do what he did to make the movie even if he knew he's be part of an investigation upon his return.

He adds, "It turns out Cuba has this incredible healthcare system for a very poor country. There's a doctor on every block, they have a lower infant mortality rate than we do, they live longer... I was kinda disgusted by that." moore...

This is roughly analogous to Paris Hilton saying, "I would drive drunk to get a hamburger again. In Bolivia, people drive drunk all the time. I'm kinda disgusted that I can't do that in the United States."

[Guest coach]

The comparisons between Hitlon and Moore are not particularly analogous.

And yes you DO have to break the law sometimes to get it changed. See, the thing about our system of government is that the courts cannot be pro-active in overturning unfair or unconstitutional laws. A case has to be brought before them for them to rule on it. They cannot go out and make rulings on their own. So, in some cases, you have to break the law to get it into the court systems so they can rule the law unconstitutional. Not always, sometimes you can manage to make a lawsuit out of an unconstitutional law.

Also, if the law is not strictly unconstitutional, but is just unfair and unethical, like the old "separate but equal" segregationist laws, sometimes you have to break it just to get enough media and public coverage to get Congress to overturn it. The ban on travel to Cuba is a perfect example. Hell, I'd bet 85%+ of the American public did not even know we had a ban on it until Moore went there! Now there can actually be enough media coverage of it to make the change. Will Moore be in a legal battle over it? You betcha. But his effort may mean that in a few years, YOU will be able to take that trip to Cuba that you want.

[Guest endymion]

The comparisons between Hitlon and Moore are not particularly analogous.

And yes you DO have to break the law sometimes to get it changed.

Moore was not protesting the embargo. He was not committing an act of civil disobedience by violating an unjust law. The embargo was simply inconvenient for him so he violated it. That makes his actions equivalent to Paris Hilton driving drunk because she thinks she's important enough and the DUI laws are just too inconvenient for her to obey. Paris Hilton was not protesting California's against DUI laws, she just wanted a hamburger. Michael Moore just wanted footage of his little stunt for his movie.

Even if the embargo were lifted it would still be illegal, under Cuban law, for me personally to visit Cuba. Look at the link in my sig to see why. It will be decades before I get to see those reefs, if ever. But that has nothing to do with Sicko.

[Guest Marina22]

Micheal Moore is fat, so what? So are the majority of celebrities when they hit it big I see it all the time when they get past the "starving artist" stage.. Nobody cares if the the director from "The Lord of the Rings" (name?) gets fat. : I digress.. Since I don't think any goverment is perfect especially this "politically correct" one, ha ha, I don't really adhere by the laws or constitution (when was that shit written again? ). This government can be just as corrupt as other nefarious ones. I mean we are supposed to be the superpower of the world and we are as bad as China environmentally, take that coral reefs.. Break the law sometime, you might enjoy it, just don't get caught. As far as Moore breaking it, well I am sure he knew he wasn't going to get the permit and he also knew the risks in breaking the law and took them. Marginal benefit exceeds the marginal cost.

[Guest pod]

You don't adhere to the Constitution? So you keep slaves, censor books, and try to take away guns. Wonderful...

I know I know, but think about what you're saying.

[Guest endymion]

Micheal Moore is fat, so what?

A flabby slob who makes a movie criticizing the American health care situation is a hypocrite because he's a big part of the problem. Peter Jackson (Lord of the Rings director) didn't make a movie about American health care and that's why nobody cares if he's fat.

[Guest pod]

True enough.

I've never liked this guy, I mean sometimes the movies make some sense, but the whole limousine liberal ethic pisses me off.

Not to toot my own horn, but I've always felt the best reporting is by someone who can embed themselves within the subject to see what is up. Like I do with clubs, I'm not some tool with a camera, I'm there right next to you drinking and trying to steal your girlfriend.

[ryan2772]

True enough.

I've never liked this guy, I mean sometimes the movies make some sense, but the whole limousine liberal ethic pisses me off.

Not to toot my own horn, but I've always felt the best reporting is by someone who can embed themselves within the subject to see what is up. Like I do with clubs, I'm not some tool with a camera, I'm there right next to you drinking and trying to steal your girlfriend.

Gonzo journalism!

[Guest Marina22]

You don't adhere to the Constitution? So you keep slaves, censor books, and try to take away guns. Wonderful...

I know I know, but think about what you're saying.

I'm what you would call a "Pick your own law-breaking" kind of person.. I'm an American citizen but that doesn't mean I am super patriotic. How can I be when I'm not for my own country's politics? Regardless, I have little respect for governments and law enforcement when they themselves break laws everyday, the world is corrupt and unfair. Like coach said at least this guy's exposing some of these things that some Americans would have never even heard of before.

[Guest Marina22]

True enough.

I've never liked this guy, I mean sometimes the movies make some sense, but the whole limousine liberal ethic pisses me off.

Not to toot my own horn, but I've always felt the best reporting is by someone who can embed themselves within the subject to see what is up. Like I do with clubs, I'm not some tool with a camera, I'm there right next to you drinking and trying to steal your girlfriend.

I don't have to like Micheal Moore or even have to know/assume why he's so fat and lazy.. I watched parts of Bowling for Columbine after that kid went psycho at V. Tech. and all of Farenheight 9/11 and I take those docs with alot of grains of salt. I'd rather him get people thinking about these issues than totally ignorant to them.

[Guest slamminshaun]

Micheal Moore is fat, so what?

A flabby slob who makes a movie criticizing the American health care situation is a hypocrite because he's a big part of the problem. Peter Jackson (Lord of the Rings director) didn't make a movie about American health care and that's why nobody cares if he's fat.

Kinda like a mega-rich, super-polluter who creates a documentary about global warming and tells everyone we need to conserve or face certain death....all while flying around the globe in a private jet and having a utility bill over $1,200 per month.

[Guest Marina22]

Wow, really people are hypocrits? You don't say.. : I don't idolize these men but I'd rather people be aware of things than be ignorant. Still haven't seen that movie Shawn, how was it?

[Guest slamminshaun]

Wow, really people are hypocrits? You don't say.. : I don't idolize these men but I'd rather people be aware of things than be ignorant. Still haven't seen that movie Shawn, how was it?

Inconvenient Truth? I'd rather chew on broken glass than watch it again.

[Guest endymion]

All I'm saying is that there is no valid reason why Michael Moore should not be prosecuted for willfully violating the embargo on Cuba.

I don't even claim that I'm personally not a hypocrite with regard to this or that or the other, I'm sure that I am. But Michael Moore and Paris Hilton both owe a debt to society for willfully breaking the law.

And I'm watching the movie of course. I've loved all of his movies. Except that some of his little stunts are annoying.

[Guest Civs]

i think i missed the point of the movie. i thought it was about the healthcare system in the USA and not about Cuba

[Guest endymion]

i think i missed the point of the movie. i thought it was about the healthcare system in the USA and not about Cuba

Right, which is what makes his violation of the embargo a stupid stunt.

[Guest pod]

I'm what you would call a "Pick your own law-breaking" kind of person.. I'm an American citizen but that doesn't mean I am super patriotic.

I'm patriotic, but to the ideals as laid down by the Founding Fathers of the nation. The Bill of Rights is essentially the closest thing to the Bible for me.

I'm not patriotic to the current system.

Now, let me ask you this, if you pick the laws to break, are you willing to go down for this principle? I've seen too many "revolutionaries" wet themselves the minute the guns are drawn.

[Guest Marina22]

I'm what you would call a "Pick your own law-breaking" kind of person.. I'm an American citizen but that doesn't mean I am super patriotic.

I'm patriotic, but to the ideals as laid down by the Founding Fathers of the nation. The Bill of Rights is essentially the closest thing to the Bible for me.

I'm not patriotic to the current system.

Now, let me ask you this, if you pick the laws to break, are you willing to go down for this principle? I've seen too many "revolutionaries" wet themselves the minute the guns are drawn.

What do you mean "go down" for this principle? I never said I was a "revolutionary" so I don't see your point.. All I'm saying is that ever since my rebellious teens I have learned some things and yes, if I break a law I take the risk and I am aware of the potential consequences. I think Michael Moore knew that they might just prosecute him for going without permission but took the risk anyway. Furthermore, as much as I feel lucky to have lived in this country I am not proud to say I'm an American. I have the passport but I say I am Venezuelan because that's where I am from, good or bad..

[Guest coach]

Micheal Moore is fat' date=' so what?

[/quote']

A flabby slob who makes a movie criticizing the American health care situation is a hypocrite because he's a big part of the problem. Peter Jackson (Lord of the Rings director) didn't make a movie about American health care and that's why nobody cares if he's fat.

Kinda like a mega-rich, super-polluter who creates a documentary about global warming and tells everyone we need to conserve or face certain death....all while flying around the globe in a private jet and having a utility bill over $1,200 per month.

This is a good example of a hypocrite. I don't think being fat vs America's health care issues is a good example. The health care problem started long before MM got fat.

[Guest coach]

i think i missed the point of the movie. i thought it was about the healthcare system in the USA and not about Cuba

Right, which is what makes his violation of the embargo a stupid stunt.

Or, maybe he was trying to make two points at once. Saves time that way, you know. Why can't he talk about the health care issue AND the Cuba issue? Does he have to stick to just one issue at a time? Plus, if violating the Cuba embargo gets more press for his movie, then it's a good marketing stunt.

[Guest pod]

What do you mean "go down" for this principle? I never said I was a "revolutionary" so I don't see your point..

What I mean is if you break the laws you claim to dislike, are you willing to face the consequences.

Say you smuggle drugs (not that you do) out of some sense of rebellion, rather than profit. Are you gonna 'take it' when SWAT kicks down your door, clunks you on the head, and hauls you off to jail?

What I'm getting at is that it's all fine and dandy to flout the law, but be prepared to accept the consequences if the law comes after you.

I've seen too many people go "Fuck the Man", and then whine when they get caught...umm hello, you're breaking the law? What'd you expect, the cop to just let you loose? He's gonna take you down out of a sense of duty and getting a paycheck.

So, let wrap this up, are you prepared to do time for your beliefs?

And as for rebellion, I wouldn't go that far, most of the so-called rebels I've seen don't hold a candle to real revolutionaries. I'm talking like Che Guevara style. Che was a dick, but he was a real revolutionary.

[Guest slamminshaun]

Micheal Moore is fat, so what?

A flabby slob who makes a movie criticizing the American health care situation is a hypocrite because he's a big part of the problem. Peter Jackson (Lord of the Rings director) didn't make a movie about American health care and that's why nobody cares if he's fat.

Kinda like a mega-rich, super-polluter who creates a documentary about global warming and tells everyone we need to conserve or face certain death....all while flying around the globe in a private jet and having a utility bill over $1,200 per month.

This is a good example of a hypocrite. I don't think being fat vs America's health care issues is a good example. The health care problem started long before MM got fat.

And global warming didn't? Oh that's right, global warming only started when Bush assumed office. I keep forgetting!

It is pretty ironic to have a fat pig do a documentary on health care. Did anyone stop to think that part of the cost of health care has to do with increased demand....the type of demand created when the average person is 40lbs overweight? Coincidentally, people in this country are getting fatter and fatter and fatter and fatter....all while health care costs go up. Cause and effect? Not sure....but don't count on Moore to look into it. He's too busy sucking up to communist regimes.

[Guest Marina22]

What do you mean "go down" for this principle? I never said I was a "revolutionary" so I don't see your point..

What I mean is if you break the laws you claim to dislike, are you willing to face the consequences.

Say you smuggle drugs (not that you do) out of some sense of rebellion, rather than profit. Are you gonna 'take it' when SWAT kicks down your door, clunks you on the head, and hauls you off to jail?

What I'm getting at is that it's all fine and dandy to flout the law, but be prepared to accept the consequences if the law comes after you.

I've seen too many people go "Fuck the Man", and then whine when they get caught...umm hello, you're breaking the law? What'd you expect, the cop to just let you loose? He's gonna take you down out of a sense of duty and getting a paycheck.

So, let wrap this up, are you prepared to do time for your beliefs?

And as for rebellion, I wouldn't go that far, most of the so-called rebels I've seen don't hold a candle to real revolutionaries. I'm talking like Che Guevara style. Che was a dick, but he was a real revolutionary.

No one wants to do time for believeing differently than a said law.. However, as an adult if you are breaking the law you have to know what can happen if you get caught. I have been acosted by the law before and even though I came out unscathed it definitely makes you think twice when you are breaking the law.

[Guest coach]

Micheal Moore is fat' date=' so what?

[/quote']

A flabby slob who makes a movie criticizing the American health care situation is a hypocrite because he's a big part of the problem. Peter Jackson (Lord of the Rings director) didn't make a movie about American health care and that's why nobody cares if he's fat.

Kinda like a mega-rich, super-polluter who creates a documentary about global warming and tells everyone we need to conserve or face certain death....all while flying around the globe in a private jet and having a utility bill over $1,200 per month.

This is a good example of a hypocrite. I don't think being fat vs America's health care issues is a good example. The health care problem started long before MM got fat.

And global warming didn't? Oh that's right, global warming only started when Bush assumed office. I keep forgetting!

Hey dork, I'm agreeing with you there.