Incubator startup: inverted V tail light aircraft

[Guest endymion]

I've been a couple of hours North of Miami in Melbourne for the last couple of weeks, working from a 'special projects' office at a government-funded technology incubator called TRDA. I just wanted to mention a pretty cool project that one of the startups here is working on.

The company is called Advanced Aero, and this is their invention:

Their patent covers the inverted V tail, which uses two "ruddervators" like an ordinary V-tail aircraft, instead of a separate rudder and elevators like most planes. The thrust from the propeller passes below the ruddervators and does not hit any portion of the airplane, which produces more thrust more efficiently than airplanes that direct thrust over the entire fuselage. The lack of thrust against the airplane also makes the ride quieter and less turbulent. It can climb faster than other light aircraft due to the tail, and it's more stable at stall speed. The twin boom configuration also prevents people from accidentally walking into the propeller on the ground. They have a more complete feature list at their web site.

This airplane has been under development for over a decade, and they have a working, flying, manned prototype. TRDA is on airport property and the prototype is right here next to the incubator at the airport. They also have the coolest flight simulator that uses video game controls and a laptop.

The patent on the tail is very broad, and it will cover many different configurations. They have plans for a version that uses a turboprop, another version that uses a jet engine, a high-wing four-seater, a medium-sized corporate jet, and an unmanned aerial drone, to name a few. The wings on the single-seat prototype fold upward so that you can pull it down the highway on a trailer.

The price of the two-seat, propeller-driven model that they plan to sell initially will be around $63,000. It gets around 38 MPG at around 135 MPH. Those numbers are all estimates, since it's a startup. Most of their initial sales are in the state of Florida.

This project is just the coolest. They have put the love and sweat into this airplane for over a decade and now they're ready to start production. I can't wait to buy one. Expect to see these little things buzzing over Miami some time soon.

[ryan2772]

that's all very interesting, but what is the status of flying cars? i was told year 2000...

[Guest endymion]

that's all very interesting, but what is the status of flying cars? i was told year 2000...

Well, this is basically what happened with flying cars, in 2001:

The Federal Aviation Administration has recently approved a new regulation which has created a new category of General Aviation aircraft that will be far less costly to manufacture and operate.

“A simple, fully built factory tested certified General Aviation aircraft with a maximum gross weight of 1320 pounds, a maximum level speed of 140 MPH and a not to exceed landing speed of 50 MPHâ€

Industry insiders predict both the initial purchase and operating costs to the consumer for this category of aircraft will come in at less than one half the cost of an aircraft produced under the old regulations.

This "Light Sport Aircraft" from Advanced Aero is exactly that. It costs about as much as a luxury SUV, it gets 35+ MPG (unlike that SUV) and it goes 135 MPH (unlike that SUV). It hauls behind a trailer, and it only requires a Sport Pilot certificate to fly, rather than a full Recreational Pilot certificate.

Cessna will also be selling a Cessna LSA soon, but look how boring and conventional the design is:

The prop wash from the Cessna LSA flows over the fuselage, causing noise, vibration, turbulence, and a loss of efficiency. It will go about the same top speed but will probably have lower fuel efficiency and be less stable at stall speed. The Cessna LSA will also cost more, possibly over $100,000.

[Guest pod]

Thing is though, how many average shlubs can think in three dimensions?

[Guest JMT]

what are the projected price tags?

while not necessarily attractive, entry level cessnas normally start at around $200k.

[Guest endymion]

JMT, the Advanced Aero two-seater has a projected MSRP of $63,000. The Cessna LSA that will compete with it will cost around $100,000.

Thing is though, how many average shlubs can think in three dimensions?

Yeah, funny you should mention that because that brings up another related project. One of the functions of this incubator is to facilitate the development of NASA "spinoff" technologies. A NASA spinoff that's relevant to light sport aircraft is the SATS program, also known as the "Highway in the Sky". One of the pioneers of some of the electronics for SATS was Harris Corporation, headquartered across the street from the incubator where I am now. (The street is called "NASA Blvd", if that tells you anything.)

SATS is a 3D visualization system for cockpit instrumentation that eliminates the need for the average schlub to rely on his own three-dimensional spatial geometry skills. It makes flying a light aircraft a much simpler experience by drawing a 'highway in the sky' in 3D on a screen, and all the pilot has to do is follow the highway.

All of this as a whole constitutes the "flying car" that we fantasized about when we were kids. It's all for real. The future is now.

[ryan2772]

All of this as a whole constitutes the "flying car" that we fantasized about when we were kids. It's all for real. The future is now.

NOOOO it's not, that's my point! i want a flying car now, daddy!

[V. Barbarino]

63k my ass! 10000% it comes in over 100k... There are far too many of these vapor ware planes out there..

[Guest pod]

That looks way too complicated for the average Joe.

[Guest endymion]

63k my ass! 10000% it comes in over 100k... There are far too many of these vapor ware planes out there..

I saw the COGS (cost of goods sold) breakdown last night. The parts cost will be well under $63K. The engine is only $12K. The entire purpose of this incubator is to help entrepreneurs like Advanced Aero with their business plan and their financial projections. A lot of very experienced CFOs examined their plan, including their projected margins, and it all looks good.

The plane is not vaporware, they have a manned, flying airplane here at the airport. It works. They're in the process of moving into TRDA to begin production. They're taking orders now, and production starts this year.

[Guest endymion]

Here is the real-live, manned, flying airplane. This is the single-seat configuration, which would be even cheaper than the $63,000 two-seater configuration that is to begin production soon.

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[V. Barbarino]

who produces the engine?

[Guest coach]

The thing about airtraffic is that it is much easier to automate than ground travel. The 3D's and lack of obstructions means that the main thing the computer system has to look out for is other vehicles.

[Guest endymion]

who produces the engine?

I'm not at liberty to divulge that, sorry.

One of the reasons why these light sport aircraft, and this one in particular, are cheaper is because a significant portion of the cost of each aircraft goes toward liability insurance. This design makes insurance underwriters very happy because of its various safety features, like the inherent protection against people walking into the propeller while it's on the ground, the improved stability in stalls, the simple mechanical controls that are redundant (one set in each tail boom), the added tail strength due to the box frame, etc, etc, etc. They sliced a big chunk of money off of the MSRP simply by making the plane safer.

About a half a dozen people accidentally walk into propellers on the ground every year in the US. Each accident is usually fatal.

[V. Barbarino]

Does it have a chute that deploys from the roof?

Is the engine currently flying in other mass produced planes?

I can't figure out how the engine is only 12k.. A viper motor is 25k!

what ever happed to the Honda planes? I hate foreign cars but a Honda plane from what I read is a damm good plane.

[Guest endymion]

Does it have a chute that deploys from the roof?

Hahaha, that was great, we got a good laugh out of that. I hope you were joking.

Is the engine currently flying in other mass produced planes?

Yes.

I can't figure out how the engine is only 12k.. A viper motor is 25k!

1. A Corvette engine costs about $9k in volume.

2. The airplane doesn't need an engine as powerful as the engine in a Viper or a Corvette.

3. A Viper engine weighs more than the entire airplane.

4. A Viper uses an engine, not a motor.

what ever happed to the Honda planes? I hate foreign cars but a Honda plane from what I read is a damm good plane.

The HondaJet is much more expensive, if that's what you mean.

[Guest pod]

Yes, the HondaJet is expensive, it is more meant for the commuter-jet air taxi service, i.e. you own a HondaJet, and then you rent it out to execs needing point-to-point on-demand travel, i.e. say I'm an exec in a media company or something, and I suddenly need to go to New York. Instead of fucking about with JetBlue, you call the HondaJet owner, and have him jet you to where you need to go.

The classification is VLJ - Very Light Jet.

What I'm waiting for is the SSBJ - Ryan is this incubator working on supersonic business jets?

[V. Barbarino]

Well if it doesn't have the chute than fuck it, it's not for me. You can't go one day without reading about some puddle jumper hitting a house, the chute is a must!!!

I've seen a whole show that talked about the difference between an engine and motor, there isn't one...

[Guest endymion]

What I'm waiting for is the SSBJ - Ryan is this incubator working on supersonic business jets?

It's safe to say that nearly every aviation project in this area involves supersonic flight. Advanced Aero's LSA is an exception. I don't know if you expected me to take that question seriously or not but they don't call this the "Space Coast" for nothing...

The other startups at this incubator at the moment are an OnStar type of system for yachts, a three-dimensional photography system that produces full-color busts from digital photos with a digital extrusion machine, a hearing aid tuning system (actually the most promising startup here, even though that sounds boring), and an Internet startup.

(And me.)

[Guest pod]

[Guest endymion]

Well if it doesn't have the chute than fuck it, it's not for me. You can't go one day without reading about some puddle jumper hitting a house, the chute is a must!!!

You crack me up. A parachute. Hilarious.

I've seen a whole show that talked about the difference between an engine and motor, there isn't one...

I take it that you didn't get quite all the way through your engineering degree program at your university. That's okay, there are plenty of qualified engineers in Florida to go around, even without you.

[Guest pod]

I was serious about the SSBJ

http://www.saiqsst.com/

Watch the videos, they're really cool.

[Guest endymion]

Holy CRAP. That music is cheesy but holy crap. Imagine that thing painted up as Air Force One. If you're reading this, check out the "Flying in Style" video, bottom on the right. Wow.

The only job cooler than working at the Skunk Works would be working at the Q Branch.

[Guest pod]

Whomever did the rendering for the vid with the lady getting on board it in Aspen did a real good job. I'm on my shitty home system now, so maybe the old monitor hid some obvious mistakes, but it looked damn good.

I'd dare to say that's the next step. We've been so concerned in cramming as many people as we can into 1 plane in airliner tech, that we've forgotten how to go fast.

[V. Barbarino]

there is no difference in a motor and engine, it was on a car show one time where they looked at all the differences and also how the two terms are used. The best example is:

The motor city (Detroit) produces engines..

Why is the chute "hilarious?"

These things are saving people's lives every year and as more and more older planes get retired more of the chutes are appearing on these small planes. It's like saying air bags are hilarious.