Clubs that will still be around in 3 years

[Guest pod]

Probably. But that's "our" risk. I'll gladly go on camera and apologize if the contestant manages to win.

But I wouldn't feel the need to apologize if the contestant wins by having to (gasp!) compromise and do things that aren't in line with the music-head ethos.

It'll prove my point.

[Guest LaundryBar]

I think I'll stick to Liquor and patch.

As much as I love "underground" music and have been pushing the sounds I love for many years, I have to agree with this 100%

Id rather be at a party full of beautiful girls dancing to local djs playing great tunes, than a party with an international dj music nerds (me included) love and 90% dudes standing around with their arms folded analyzing the music.

of course if we can get beautiful women dancing at a party with a headlining dj us music nerds love, then thats the perfect combo. It can happen, and it has happened...

The key to a good night out in "club land" imo is the right combo of beautiful women and great music...a hard thing to perfect but Im trying ;D

thanks to everyone who supports me and what I do

[Guest LeVeL]

Probably. But that's "our" risk. I'll gladly go on camera and apologize if the contestant manages to win.

But I wouldn't feel the need to apologize if the contestant wins by having to (gasp!) compromise and do things that aren't in line with the music-head ethos.

It'll prove my point.

If you asked the everyday clubber out there, I think they would admit that change once in a while would be a good thing. If the Megaclubs do something different like keep their main attraction intact in one room and do something different on another room, I believe that the club will not take a direct hit.

Yeah the crowds determine what they like and dont like but right now around town there isn't much change from venue to venue, yeah you have your Laundry Bar and your Blue but these are small scale venues, its the Big Venues that would create change and its the Big venues where people want to go and its the big venues that attract women and acourse its where people want to go to celebrate their B-days and its where the sales of VIP bottles are most bought.

If somebody wants to go out to have a goodtime its the Big venues where they will go, doesnt matter if they like the music or not, they know women will be there and they will go. Its common sense, there is not much trivia in it.

As Far as the promoters are concerned it's not a concern to them especially the ones working the megaclubs around town, you will get your crowd coming out to Cameo,Mansion,Space and Suite no matter what, its all about the venue, not the music anymore.

[Guest pod]

In the megaclubs, was it every about "the music"? Music is part of the experience, not the sole purpose of the experience.

[Guest redcommibastard]

The Golden Rule. He with the gold makes the rules.

Dade, can we find some investor who's willing to possibly lose a few million just to satisfy my curiosity?

We'll make it a TV show even. I've kicked about the idea before.

The premise:

New nightclub opens. For a challenge, let's put it Downtown.

One of these "experts", is placed in the role of owner/managing partner. He or she has to deal with running the club, and turning a profit after a year. Otherwise, "you're fired".

Every day, the contestant has to deal with the police, fire marshals, code enforcement, employees, promoters, DJs, technicians, maintenance, liquor distributors, FPL, politicians, neighbors. Nevermind when the club is actually open!

This fall, on FOX Reality.

It's a nice idea but what if they actually pull it off? It would make the rest of us look pretty stupid.

I'll take this challenge

[Guest redcommibastard]

I think I'll stick to Liquor and patch.

As much as I love "underground" music and have been pushing the sounds I love for many years, I have to agree with this 100%

Id rather be at a party full of beautiful girls dancing to local djs playing great tunes, than a party with an international dj music nerds (me included) love and 90% dudes standing around with their arms folded analyzing the music.

of course if we can get beautiful women dancing at a party with a headlining dj us music nerds love, then thats the perfect combo. It can happen, and it has happened...

The key to a good night out in "club land" imo is the right combo of beautiful women and great music...a hard thing to perfect but Im trying ;D

thanks to everyone who supports me and what I do

keep it up - you're doing a hell of a job

[Guest Jason_B]

The Golden Rule. He with the gold makes the rules.

Dade, can we find some investor who's willing to possibly lose a few million just to satisfy my curiosity?

We'll make it a TV show even. I've kicked about the idea before.

The premise:

New nightclub opens. For a challenge, let's put it Downtown.

One of these "experts", is placed in the role of owner/managing partner. He or she has to deal with running the club, and turning a profit after a year. Otherwise, "you're fired".

Every day, the contestant has to deal with the police, fire marshals, code enforcement, employees, promoters, DJs, technicians, maintenance, liquor distributors, FPL, politicians, neighbors. Nevermind when the club is actually open!

This fall, on FOX Reality.

It's a nice idea but what if they actually pull it off? It would make the rest of us look pretty stupid.

I'll take this challenge

Ill help too...

[Guest JustDade]

I think I'll stick to Liquor and patch.

As much as I love "underground" music and have been pushing the sounds I love for many years, I have to agree with this 100%

Id rather be at a party full of beautiful girls dancing to local djs playing great tunes, than a party with an international dj music nerds (me included) love and 90% dudes standing around with their arms folded analyzing the music.

of course if we can get beautiful women dancing at a party with a headlining dj us music nerds love, then thats the perfect combo. It can happen, and it has happened...

The key to a good night out in "club land" imo is the right combo of beautiful women and great music...a hard thing to perfect but Im trying ;D

thanks to everyone who supports me and what I do

Very well said. I think that what you're doing over at LB is important and underappreciated.

Tell me, when you do a night with underground minimal, what is the head count? What is the basic per-head spending average? What is the guy/girl ratio?

What I'm trying to illustrate is the financial viability of doing those events at a maga-club.

By the way....I'm Dade.....pleased to meet you.

[Guest deprivation]

I think the mega clubs are just playing it safe and trying to earn a living. It was the same thing where I used to live. My friends that DJ'ed constantly had the owners and managers in the booth making sure they kept the sound mainstream. I see their point because some people want to hear Livin on a Prayer when they party. Their not interested in the new M_nus record or Get Physical track.

I think it's up to the non-mega clubs or smaller venues to break the underground scene/music until it can surface into the mainstream. However, it would be nice to see a mega club mix in some off nights and take chances. Any maybe they are. Ibiza tried that with techno at DC10 and Amnesia and now those are arguably the premiere nights.

[Guest coach]

One thing that everybody around here on BOTH sides forget is that Miami has been home to, or a big part of, quite a number of musical revolutions.

The current megaclub scene started as a revolution in the 90s.

So, Pod says, "Miami people don't care about music, they just want to have fun." Well, that's bullshit. Look at the history.

And Tech4future says, "Miami is all commercialized and lame." Well, that's bullshit, too. Look at the history.

Sure, if you're too old like Pod, you're tired of revolution and ready for complacancy.

If you're too young like Tech4future, then the revolution never moves fast enough, and anything that's been around 3 year is ancient history and "the establishment."

You guys are fighting the same fight, separated only by about 10 years.

[Guest pod]

Coach, Miami has never had a what one would describe as a completely music-driven scene, i.e. a bunch of clubs like Cielo in NYC solely driving the club industry in town. Clubs in the past and present like Space, Shadow Lounge, crobar, Groove Jet, etc, sure they booked guest DJs and so forth, but bear in mind that all those clubs had (or in the case of Space, have) VIP sections, dress codes, and other such things that wouldn't entirely fit into the ethos of the true music head. Reason being is that the music crowd alone cannot support an event in this town outside of the small venues with low overhead.

Miami clubs, no matter what their orientation are, have always tended to cater first and foremost to the party crowd. The successful ones that went out of their way to book DJs, never really relied on them as the linchpin of the evening, and if they did rely on the DJ to drive the event, the DJ was either a mega-star, or the market conditions were right (1998-2001) for a DJ driven event to succeed.

Am I complacent in this scene? Relatively. I'd certainly love to see more DJ-driven events in town, but I don't let the lack of such destroy my desire to go out and enjoy myself. I'm essentially a confirmed bachelor for the rest of my current life at this point, and outside of clubland, I have no social life, so in essence, my going out requirements are pretty simple. Barring the fact it's my job, if a club provides decent music (to me), a comfortable atmosphere, and a sociable crowd, I'm a happy camper.

Someone comes along and manages to throw a DJ-driven event like the glory days of the latter years of the last century, and manages to succeed, well, good for them.

[Guest Luis C]

Come out to INK on Thursdays... we got quality djs every week in August.

We all can make difference if we support events like the ones we do at INK on Thursdays.

I welcome everyone that is tired of the open format/ mash up nights.

Upcoming Dates:

Aug. 2 Shawn Rudnick (HOUSE SET not open format)

Aug. 9 Edgar V. (Southside Recordings)

Aug. 16 Steve Smooth (Menage music, Chicago)

With residents Luis Carrizo & Juan Cordova.

[Guest Hardline]

lol...

[Guest Fuerte44]

Ouch Dade, its too early on Monday morn for one to be so angry!

Tech: Miami is what it is man. It has and always will be. I understand and can sympathize with you, i don't hear the music i like or the jocks i want to see here. Do something about it instead of ranting on cooljunkie. If you don't like what these clubs have to offer, don't go.

EDIT: You other post in the "City is Changing" thread was filled with goodness and hope, what the hell happened between that post and this one?

i dont go, i am am happy as a clam doing what i do every week....

you wont catch me dead at these places.....

it was the party on friday night that made me come home and say wow....these big venues are missing out...just a healthy little argument....

i never take life to seriously....i almost forgot i posted this stuff today.....so im glad select people seemed to have been affected by my little rants....

just seeing if certain people are still awake at the wheel in the 305

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Guest pod]

Vote with your wallet.

I still invite you to spend a couple of days trying to run a club though. 8)

[Guest myles hie]

Ouch Dade, its too early on Monday morn for one to be so angry!

Tech: Miami is what it is man. It has and always will be. I understand and can sympathize with you, i don't hear the music i like or the jocks i want to see here. Do something about it instead of ranting on cooljunkie. If you don't like what these clubs have to offer, don't go.

EDIT: You other post in the "City is Changing" thread was filled with goodness and hope, what the hell happened between that post and this one?

i dont go, i am am happy as a clam doing what i do every week....

you wont catch me dead at these places.....

it was the party on friday night that made me come home and say wow....these big venues are missing out...just a healthy little argument....

i never take life to seriously....i almost forgot i posted this stuff today.....so im glad select people seemed to have been affected by my little rants....

just seeing if certain people are still awake at the wheel in the 305

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

what, you get a little sleep and the worlds rosy again? pfffftttt

[Guest addictedtospace]

disclaimer: i have been up for a few days. for those who are offended, please take with a grain of salt.

how about this.....

who fucking cares who will be open then....the more important question is....what can be done in the next three years to change our scene for the better?

Everybody forgot his disclaimer before going off on his ass.

[Guest pod]

I ignored his disclaimer. ;D

[BobbyTrendy]

i blame the saleen, barbarino and that nick guy

[Guest colione98]

During my review for cameo/vice, I had to keep an open mind but I am 100% behind the mash up open format rant- there has to be a balance but I agree. Won't say it out loud, but agree. The other parts, eh.... its whatever...

As long as there is a balance, I could care less....

[Guest Fuerte44]

"Maybe the reason you never get to "get crazy on the patio to music that heads prefer" is that you're the wrong type of head. "

you are right on that one, i am not a pill head...so you got me there...

"Somehow they owe you a chance to play with their big toys."

no they owe the people getting ripped off the chance to hear music they dont know exist, and if they did, they would be asking for it...but lp, opium never tried an alternative dj party, so no one really knows...i just would like to be proven wrong just once, and see if LP loses his ass with cocoon on the patio, or dennis ferrer in the main room....

"first of all as one of the "assholes" i will be the one to say on bahalf of all my "idiots"....FUCK OFF YOU STUPID TWAT"

umm....how about no?? i was going to, but now that i seemed to have given you some sore labia, i wont fuck off, but i might say you definitely responded with the professionalism that i expected...

". The reason that your music only gets play at Blue or Laundry Bar is because that's enough to satisfy the market demand for it."

market demand becomes a non issue when the sole providers of big time nightlife have not attempted to make available an alternative sound....we all were not born with taste...its acquired once one knows about alternative and sometime better choices....when choices are limited and censored, market demand is controlled by the people who provide the goods/services...

"If Picotto, Hawtin, Leibing and six more were on the bill, you would be luck to get 1000. "

prove it....until then, you will sound like a completely soulless and money hungry pendejo, who never really had any intrinsic set of values and goals in providing the best music/nightlife miami can offer, or any desire to stay true to the EDM system of values...money money money...

"TOOL."

tool? what makes any of what i said a tool???? a tool for wanting big clubs to take part in some great djs and great music that they seem to be missing out on....and by the way, we are not in high school anymore....words like "tool" and "twat" make you, a grown adult, seem much more distraught than I, a mere child compared to you in age and experience....

"OK......now you don't want to pay for the drinks either. Way to make your case to the big clubs."

i tried to, i have bought the tables and the bottles but it got old...thats why you lost me, and others like me....dont you get it??? no you dont, you dont care...

[Guest pod]

Tech4Future:

No, he, and myself, and other people with a modicum of business sense don't care.

Simply put, because (now I'm gonna use harsh words here, so keep some pills on standby) you and your crowd aren't the money spending crowd. And, as businessmen and women (Girls run clubs too...) they tend not to care about the customer who does not spend money. They want consumers, not customers. When you walk through the door of a club, to them the ideal path is (after paying cover) is straight to the bar and ordering up some drinks.

Unfortunately, you're tying up too much of an artistic perspective in what is 99 percent a business endeavor. I'd love to see some of these DJs too, but I know it won't happen any time soon, since at the moment, it just isn't a financial or political reality to book them. The club is open to provide paychecks for the people who work there, and profit dollars for the person or people that built it.

And you do realize, that people work at clubs for a living, right? You could book all the DJs you want, as long as you're able to keep paying the people that work for you. In the case of a large club like Space, you've got 200 people or more on the payroll, some of which, Space forms a vital part of their income. A few stinker weekends in the can because LP chose to go with what some bedroom DJ said on CoolJunkie as opposed to what makes business sense is gonna go over real well when paychecks start bouncing. Being "about the music" is all fine and dandy until it's time to grow up and pay some bills.

You realize we do live in a capitalist society, right?

In my mind, we're damn lucky right now to have the dance music we do have in Miami. It's a very difficult business to make money in, but we have a few major places that do what they can to make it work in some way. Space every Saturday night and Sunday morning. Gryphon 2 nights a week. Biz's parties, Pawn Shop. And at the small level, you have places like Blue, Laundry Bar, etc.

[Guest Fuerte44]

you are right with most of what you say, i can deny or dispute the realities of nightlife as a business....

i am not trying to use any of what i have said to inspire those in power to change their business practices....

i am not going to change a thing by posting on a message board just as dade said....that was not my intent...i was just wanted to throw some opinions and questions out there to evoke some response and thought....

i like arguing, especially about shit i have nothing to do with to people who have everything to do with whatever it may be....

if i opened one person's mind, perhaps a lurking space head or someone similar, then i did something positive in my opinion....im not here to revolutionize anything...this is not my life....i would never make my life's work have anything to do with nightlife...so, as i once said, to those who are offended, take it with a grain of salt, because i am no one, nothing, meaningless...

[Guest pod]

Sarcasm won't help, either. If you didn't care, you wouldn't post about it.

I've seen this attitude a million times before, coming from people like you.

It's quite funny, you want people to 'open their minds' or whatever, but you're unwilling to grant them the respect, that maybe they're just comfortable and happy liking what they like, and just getting on with life.

At the end of the day, how do people's choices in nightlife entertainment affect you, anyways? Are you a DJ? Promoter? Club owner?

So what if someone chooses to spend their money and their time on the patio? So what if they choose to hang at Cameo and listen to hip-hop or open format? Is the world gonna end?

And I'm willing to bet that if there was a sea change in the crowd, and all of the sudden, they were at "your" events, you'd bitch about all these "clueless newbies" ruining the scene, and how "things just ain't like they used to be, goddamnit!"

Musical elitism is just another variation on a theme of elitism. There's really nothing separating you from the guys and girls holding court in VIP.

[Guest Ryan EliteEnt]

Tech4Future:

No, he, and myself, and other people with a modicum of business sense don't care.

Simply put, because (now I'm gonna use harsh words here, so keep some pills on standby) you and your crowd aren't the money spending crowd. And, as businessmen and women (Girls run clubs too...) they tend not to care about the customer who does not spend money. They want consumers, not customers. When you walk through the door of a club, to them the ideal path is (after paying cover) is straight to the bar and ordering up some drinks.

Unfortunately, you're tying up too much of an artistic perspective in what is 99 percent a business endeavor. I'd love to see some of these DJs too, but I know it won't happen any time soon, since at the moment, it just isn't a financial or political reality to book them. The club is open to provide paychecks for the people who work there, and profit dollars for the person or people that built it.

And you do realize, that people work at clubs for a living, right? You could book all the DJs you want, as long as you're able to keep paying the people that work for you. In the case of a large club like Space, you've got 200 people or more on the payroll, some of which, Space forms a vital part of their income. A few stinker weekends in the can because LP chose to go with what some bedroom DJ said on CoolJunkie as opposed to what makes business sense is gonna go over real well when paychecks start bouncing. Being "about the music" is all fine and dandy until it's time to grow up and pay some bills.

You realize we do live in a capitalist society, right?

In my mind, we're damn lucky right now to have the dance music we do have in Miami. It's a very difficult business to make money in, but we have a few major places that do what they can to make it work in some way. Space every Saturday night and Sunday morning. Gryphon 2 nights a week. Biz's parties, Pawn Shop. And at the small level, you have places like Blue, Laundry Bar, etc.

Very Well Said... I would have wrote the same thing if I was not so lazy typing.